While speaking about the new Errata for the Core Rulebook, a question regarding the modifications to Smite Evil was made:
On the following round, rinse and repeat.The new text does NOT say "this round". It simply says "the first successful attack".
So, only the very first successful attack after you start the smite will have 2x damage. Every subsequent attack, this round or any other, will have 1x damage. That's how I read it, anyway.
Hmm, the text indeed seems to indicate so.
Maybe it is a case of poor wording, maybe not. It should be addressed somehow.
"Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.
The smite evil effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or the next time the paladin rests and regains her uses of this ability. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table 3–11, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level."Effectively it is not crystal clear if the ability 'resets itself' every round or not.
Basically, the text seems to say that a Paladin would benefit from the empowered abilites of Smite (2x Paladin level bonus damage against Evil subtype, Evil Dragons and Undead) only for ONE single successful attack for the ENTIRE fight.
Is this right? Or does this mean that every round the first successful attack against 'Team Evil' is Paladin Level x2, all others x1, and then the next round the ability resets itself (and so, first successful attack 2x and so on) as I initially thought?
Which is, if a Paladin is fighting against a Vampire and hits him 9 times during 3 rounds, how many hits would benefit from the improved damage, 3 or 1 ?
I have no idea how anybody could get such a wierd reading out of the text.
There is nothing about rounds anywhere mentioned.
The Smite lasts the entre battle.
The double damage applies to the first attack against said Big Bad Evil.
That`s all, folks.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I said my bit over in the other thread, but I'll jump in here too. The smite evil lasts the whole combat. Ok. The first attack the paladin gets against certain creatures during their smite gets double damage. Ok. I see nothing to indicate that it's their first attack 'per round'.
What he said.
I don't see anything that would indicate that it even might mean the first attack every round.
I would agree with the others. The context is the duration of the smite itself, which is not measured in rounds anyway.
I asked just to be sure, since when I looked at the errata sentence on its own
"If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses."
I had not the complete text under my eyes , and I thought that there was a reference of the power 'every round' into the rest of the description (but there wasn't).
And you know, even if later you have the complete text under your eyes, sometimes it's not so easy to change your mind, if you are absolutely convinced of something.
So, Smite Evil has taken the nerf bat. Not a huge nerf, but greater than I thought. Oh, well, Paladins were powerful anyway.
a balanced change, i think.
it`s not like 3.5 where if you miss your 1st attack , you lose the benefit,
if you miss on the 1st try, you can still get this double damage on a later hit with this change.
Actually, I read it as once per smite....
Thus there is nothing to stop you from blowing extra uses of smite to resmite an enemy and get another double damage attack.
once per smite, the wording seems pretty clear.
Here is how I feel it works. When you use a swift action to Smite Evil on a target you get the following items until the target is defeated or you rest.
+ Cha bonus to Attack
+ Level to Damage
Bypass all Damage Reduction
+ Cha bonus to AC
In addition to the above items if your target is a dragon/undead/outsider you get double your level in damage to your first successful hit.
(OK... this part is not rules based but opinion so feel free to skip.) Yes this is a small change to the paladin. And yes IMHO this is a great change. Smite Evil is still an AWESOME ability! And you still do even more damage to specific targets for at least one blow before being reduced back to the AWESOME level of the non-specific target smite. Paladins are great and much better off then they were in previous editions. By cutting down the damage they do on some iconic foes they kept the game from suffering a bit.
|
Yes this is a small change to the paladin.
Just a nit... It is not a small change, it's pretty significant. It doesn't entirely harpoon the paladin archer and the two weapon fighting paladin but it's a huge change for these classes. A 10th level paladin archer is doing 40-50hp damage less per round against these creatures.
It's a big change but a big change was needed.
I'm fine with it. I saw how powerful the paladin is till I recently wrapped up my RotRL campaign.
I would like to see an extra smiting feat thrown back into the game now though.
I'm fine with it. I saw how powerful the paladin is till I recently wrapped up my RotRL campaign.
I would like to see an extra smiting feat thrown back into the game now though.
I think that depends on how good the "average" players, and DM's are. If it is represented by group 1 that I have DM'ed then I would rather not see it, but group 2 I would not mind.
OK, coming from a different system I might of not read the paladin smite as close as I should.
If a paladin smites a foe he gaines his +Chr to hit, +Level to damage and +Chr bonus to AC for the entire fight (would not stack with other deflection bonus?) against the taget of the smite, not just on the first attack?
If I end up hitting the target of the smite 10 times I get the damage bonus 10 times?
I also get one additional double damage hit against the special targets?
OK, coming from a different system I might of not read the paladin smite as close as I should.
If a paladin smites a foe he gaines his +Chr to hit, +Level to damage and +Chr bonus to AC for the entire fight (would not stack with other deflection bonus?) against the taget of the smite, not just on the first attack?
If I end up hitting the target of the smite 10 times I get the damage bonus 10 times?
I also get one additional double damage hit against the special targets?
The +AC is a deflection bonus so it would not stack with other deflection bonuses.
You get +hit, +damage on every attack you land on the smite target. You get double +damage on the first hit you land on outsiders, undead, or dragons after you smite them. If you smite them again, you can get another double damage hit.
The bonuses only last while the smite is in effect. If the target dies, the bonuses go away.
Thanks! That helps.
I don't think this is an epic Paladin Spite nerf. If they wanted to change the paladin this severely they would have modified more text.
The final paragraph is far more clear about durations etc....
The smite evil effect remains until the target of the
smite is dead or the next time the paladin rests and regains
her uses of this ability.
In the errata the writer is saying where you apply the effects of the smite powers. I think this is clarity not restriction. Had they wanted to restrict the duration of the smite power they would have said so.
This is not the Koran or Torah people. These are oh so human writers trying to be clear. I think the whole entry clearly says the smite power lasts the remaining life of the smite evil target or until the Paladin rests.
Sigurd
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
[Looks at the threads dates]
Wow. If people ask me how mythic necromancy works, I am pointing them to this thread.
I never understood the problem with thread necromancy. It just seems to bother people.
|
Unless the Paladin was to declare a smite against each of the various minions as well. Contrary to popular belief, the Paladin can have all of his smites going at once.
Very interesting. I love paladins, and I never noticed this in the wording. PRD link
I guess the developers just thought you got few enough of them that each use would be critical. This makes my PFS Oath of Vengeance Pally much more survivable in massive Worldwound fights.
I never understood the problem with thread necromancy. It just seems to bother people.
Tempestorm touched on the issue a bit. With no introduction or explanation as to why they are resurrecting a three-year-old thread, the necrothreader looks silly and even a bit ignorant.
I think it's reasonable to wonder (in the absence of any explanation):
Why are they beating a dead horse?
Do they not understand this was all hashed out years ago?
Did they just read the first post and have no idea that further down the thread somebody actually answered the question without having to dig these old bones out again?
And on a more personal note...
Do we really have to go through all of this again?
And more to the point...
Why can't this just die?
Accidental thread necromancy:
Guy has a question, searches the forums, finds a thread that seems relevant, then contributes somehow to that thread, all all without ever checking the dates of the posts, mainly because he's interested in reading the posts, not the post metadata.
I don't see a problem with thread necromancy. But hey, three years is nothing. Seven years, now, that's more impressive. I honestly prefer it if they continue an old thread to making a dozen new ones all the time. Just imagine... we could have a SINGLE alignment thread, a SINGLE monk thread, and a SINGLE GMs/players suck thread. Stay out of them and you don't need this vague, creeping headache...
Yes. No one thread can hold all THAT vitriol and bile.
When I play PFS, the two paladins that I've played with were applying the double damage to the 1st hit each round. So this necromancy was useful for me.