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Dammit.
I am a painstakingly legal in everything about my PFS PC, and the one thing I have to worry about now, is conflicting starting age?
I have to worry about being young one day, and then straight up old age the next?
Illegal today, or illegal tomorrow, is what I have to choose from?
Avoiding a build that uses confusing or difficult rules. Making sure all my background fits with established lore, and now, I can't even write a credible backstory?
Seriously, I can write a backstory that makes no sense today, or no sense tomorrow?
Can't I just get some kind of note, or contact a judge, or something, so I have no doubts, that when I bring my PFS PC to a game, I am free from some possible headache, over something as silly, as starting age?
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When my Golarion PC, cannot even exist, as is, in game, set in Golarion, with Golarion flavor, because the rules, designed to be run in Golarion, confict, and makes it impossible, there is an issue.
If I was just "John Smith the adventuring man, with no past, who loves to adventure, and has no idea why, or even anything else about his life, but adventuring" then it would be fine.
I happen to be one of those poor saps, who likes their PC to be maybe just a bit more than a list of Race/Class/Feats/Stats/Traits.
Creative Director
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Can I use the normal Human starting ages for Tieflings/Aasimar in PFS?
If I start with a 25 year old Tiefling, will it be an illegal PC?
If you can't, that'd be one more thing about PFS that frustrates and annoys me, I guess.
And if you find a table that quibbles over your character's age in that way... that's a way that table is warning you "Don't play at this table" in my opinion.
In Golarion... where PFS is set... tieflings and aasimars age like humans. Feel free to print this message out and use it at your PFS table as support from the game's Creative Director if you so wish.
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Sorry if I came out sounding bad.
I just want to not be the problem player at any table.
I am literally putting the last finishing touches on my first PFS PC, and this was a real unexpected problem.
Lucky for me, I have an understanding girlfriend, and can usually cool me down if "something on the internet" is making me angry, and can come at it with a cool head after a hour or two.
Unfortunately, this won't be the case at a PFS table.
James Jacobs said that he planned to get this errataed about two years ago. Since then, there has been no official FAQ or update in regard to this topic.
James Jacobs said that he planned to get this errataed about two years ago. Since then, there has been no official FAQ or update in regard to this topic.
Paizo's policy on errata for rulebooks is this: errata are issued when a new printing of the book in question is made. So, this will probably be corrected whenever the second printing of the Advance Race Guide is going to be released.
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Creative Director
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James Jacobs said that he planned to get this errataed about two years ago. Since then, there has been no official FAQ or update in regard to this topic.
We don't issue errata until we reprint a book. And to my knowledge, we haven't yet needed to reprint the book. It's frustrating to you... but ten times more frustrating to me. Trust me.
In any event, use whatever age category rules you prefer for your game. It won't be an issue... unless you run Rise of the Runelords. Or Council of Thieves. Or to a lesser extent, any of our other adventures that feature tiefling and aasimar characters. ;-P
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Creative Director
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Which are the other things? :-DCan I use the normal Human starting ages for Tieflings/Aasimar in PFS?
If I start with a 25 year old Tiefling, will it be an illegal PC?
If you can't, that'd be one more thing about PFS that frustrates and annoys me, I guess.
[...]
Find me at a convention and ask me there.
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James Jacobs said that he planned to get this errataed about two years ago. Since then, there has been no official FAQ or update in regard to this topic.
We don't issue errata until we reprint a book. And to my knowledge, we haven't yet needed to reprint the book. It's frustrating to you... but ten times more frustrating to me. Trust me.
In any event, use whatever age category rules you prefer for your game. It won't be an issue... unless you run Rise of the Runelords. Or Council of Thieves. Or to a lesser extent, any of our other adventures that feature tiefling and aasimar characters. ;-P
When you do reprint, what will the starting age be?
"As human", even for elf-parent tieflings?
Or "as parent race"?
I'd say the second option makes more sense, since there's also the blurb in Blood of Fiends about non-human tieflings having different Sizes depending on parent race.
An age chart listing of all core, featured, and uncommon races. This also includes age categories and starting ages for playing young characters of all core, featured, and uncommon races. This chart uses official Paizo material combined with equivalent races uses the same age progression and races without an equivalent using similar patterns in age progression. Feel free to use or not use this chart, open gaming license, have fun, legal blah blah blah...
I really like that planetouched can live a long time. It seems an appropriate blending of their immortal outsider heritage, and their mortal human heritage.
But yeah, the starting ages could use some work.
Other humanoid races can have Aasimar children, not just humans. It'd make more logical sense if the aging rules were from the base humanoid... example, an Aasimar of elven origin uses the elven aging rules, an Aasimar of halfling origin uses the halfling aging rules, an Aasimar of human origin uses the human aging rules. I remember reading something about that in the rules somewhere.
Is there any chance that Inner Sea Races will have some racial age corrections?
Find me at a convention and ask me there.Which are the other things? :-DCan I use the normal Human starting ages for Tieflings/Aasimar in PFS?
If I start with a 25 year old Tiefling, will it be an illegal PC?
If you can't, that'd be one more thing about PFS that frustrates and annoys me, I guess.
[...]
How about running the age progression for plane-touched as a "bell curve"? They age normally until about puberty where the other lineage kicks in and suddenly the age slows, it continues that way until about venerable where the wear and tear suddenly speeds up. I think this is the way I will be running these races. In current game the tiefling character has the adopted trait and was raised by a retired human bard... there is no way the bard would have survived the 60 or so years to adulthood. But this makes various traits and feats more acceptable to fit into the narrative.
Sorry, I'm coming in late on this but can't find another post about aging and don't want to open a new post for something that may have already been opened.
Aasimar ages were changed a while ago, and I'm not complaining about it. But the starting ages never were from what I see.
so an Aasimar that lives the exact same amount of time as a human starts at 20 years old and adds: +4d6 intuitive, +6d6 self taught, or +8d6 trained
That means that even a sorc has a good chance of being middle aged before they start their first adventure, and wizards and clerics have a chance of joining the game in their venerable years.
This sounds really off to me, and I'm for the most part just letting them role using human starting ages, but due to some rules Nazis and hurt feelings by a player that wanted to be 14 years old I'm trying to find out if this was just a glitch in the book that was meant to be changed as well as the ages.
[On a side note though, while I do like the idea of Aasimars living a long time, I'm actually ok with them not. Somebody complaining that immortal plus mortal shouldn't equal mortal makes no sense to me. The immortal was just a power, and not one that the offspring inherit, hence humans turned gods become immortal. Their lifespans were never increased, but rather stopped all together. In that sense Aasimar's should just have the same lifespan of their mortal bloodline IE: if born elf, elven lifespan, if born human (which most are) human lifespan. Any complaints with that just look at greek mythology where most half gods died in their fifties, with obvious exceptions to Tiresias and Nestor. Though even in that case one was the son of a Human and a Nymph and the other a son of a half god...a half god that aged the same as a human]
The Aasimar age tables got messed up with the last update. They were always supposed to age like humans, but the ARG got that wrong. They tried to correct that with the last update, but only fixed part of the tables. So now the tables make no sense.
The reason these ages were corrected in the reprint is, as noted above, because they were errors.Have you by any chance had a look at the changes as they were actually issued in the errata and PRD? I cannot help thinking that there must have been a miscommunication somewhere. Here is what we got:
Base age: Changed from 60 or 110 to 20.
Random dice added to base age: Left unchanged, including the +10d6 added to starting age of Dhampir in a trained class.Aging effects: Set to human values.
What were the actual intended changes?
Sigh.
No.
Looks like they forgot to change the random dice element. Very, very frustrating.
Sorry, I missed that thread somehow. Thank you for the help. In that case I'll just have them roll off the human charts. Thanks again.
You are welcome.
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Actually...
I'm going to try to get the ARG errataed so that aasimars and tieflings reach adulthood and have starting ages equal to humans. Because beyond the two contradictions Mort pointed out above...
** spoiler omitted **
A quick glance at the other race ages listed in the ARG and all those look fine—either they're like drow or svirfneblin and have always had established ages, or they're new races who haven't had significant NPC appearances that rely heavily upon their childhood history being on a time scale equal to that of a human.
Now... I suppose I COULD say "Tieflings and aasimars age differently in Golarion," but that's super obnoxious. The rulebooks don't have a built-in campaign setting, but Golarion DOES assume you're using the rulebooks, and as such, what's in the rulebooks SHOULD match what happens in Golarion as much as possible.
Grr.
Which printing of Advanced Race Guide has the proper (human-like) Tiefling ages fixed in the table?
The Aasimar age tables got messed up with the last update. They were always supposed to age like humans, but the ARG got that wrong. They tried to correct that with the last update, but only fixed part of the tables. So now the tables make no sense.
yeeeep. It makes you ask 'why change make a change at all if you don't complete the goal the first time'. Fixing it, but failing at it, is far more embarrassing than leaving the original mistake. Heck, the original mistake actually came of as more flavorful than their failed attempt to just do 'normal'.
Before, the native outsiders could come off like forlorn elves, and be true social outsiders- they take decades to grow up, and live for centuries. Not as extreme as elves, but enough to alienate them from their families and peers. Since they often come off as singular existances or bloodlines, without the benefit of long standing communities they could fall back to... it really encourages one to just hit the road and try being a sellsword instead of sticking around the jeers.
But now, they mostly just come off as having the same life span as humans, but they are VERY slow. It is possible to roll up a level 1 wizard that is almost 50 years old. The average wizard is 22, or a college graduate; imagine someone that took from age 15 to 50 to get a bachelor's degree- you would mostly ask 'why did you keep up'?
So it went from a nice otherworldly feel to 'kind of slow, and perhaps way too persistant'.
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I would say the genetics of the plane touched are more unique per person than even the half races because having something like the 1/16 to 1/128 extra planer something manifest cannot be anything other than weird and unique.
While I think usually it would match their main parent race I think if plot demanded happy accidents for aasimar or cruel twists for tiefling they would happen at the speed of plot. What I mean by that is you could see a tiefling going to bed seven and waking up fourteen like Illyana Rasputin/Magick from the X men comics for a Tiefling or living a very long time so everyone they know is gone becoming effectively "forlorn". You could see an Aasimar "slow down" to match their half elf spouse or grow up just a little faster so an aged parent can see them as adults before they die.