We just started playing the Kingmaker AP and one of the players is playing a summoner. Not sure if what he was ding was as intended or if there's been a change in the ability or just something we missed.
He was using his SLA to summon a monster, in this case a celestial eagle, so the eagle is out for 2 rounds and on his turn it goes like this
eidolon attacks
summoned eagle attacks
summoner uses standard action and summons another celestial eagle
first eagle disappears
second summoned eagle then moves in and attacks.
seems a little OP to us but not sure if this was how it was intended or we're missin somethin.
A Summoner's Summoned Monsters via its SLA last a minute per level and he can only have one of those running at a time. However his Summoned Monsters via spells are treated as normal. Its not OP at all, that is what a Summoner does.
Is a 18 str, power attacking fighter using a greatsword doing 2d6+9 damage as a potential every single round he attacks 24 hours a day OP?
A Summoner's Summoned Monsters via its SLA last a minute per level and he can only have one of those running at a time. However his Summoned Monsters via spells are treated as normal.
right, but is he able to attack with the one thats already out, summon another one thereby dismissing the first one and since its only a standard action to summon the second one the newly summon one get to move and attack in the same round as the other one before it was dismissed?
A Summoner's Summoned Monsters via its SLA last a minute per level and he can only have one of those running at a time. However his Summoned Monsters via spells are treated as normal.right, but is he able to attack with the one thats already out, summon another one thereby dismissing the first one and since its only a standard action to summon the second one the newly summon one get to move and attack in the same round as the other one before it was dismissed?
No to your problem as soon as the second critter turns up the first one goes.
The Summoner can only have one SLA critter on the table at anytime. If the critter is still there he can't use the SLA until it is dispeled or killed. Problem solved.
EDIT: Frankly if he wants to burn all his SLAs that way I would let him! Its a really poor tactic with no benefit at all from what I can see.
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eidolon attacks
summoned eagle attacks
summoner uses standard action and summons another celestial eagle
first eagle disappears
second summoned eagle then moves in and attacks.
Seems legit to me, and the way that the summoners SLA summon should work. The limiting factor to this to me seems to be that each time he does this he's using another one of his limited Summon monster uses for the day - Even if your summoner has a Cha of 20, he can only summon monsters this way a maximum of 8 times a day, using 2 per fight means he's going to be out of juice after 4 encounters instead of 8 - so my recommendation for fixing this is throwing more encounters at the party per day
Also, summoning the second creature in using the SLA, means the summoner can't spend his standard action to use a sling, bow, or spell - which means it cuts into the dmg/utility the summoner himself could be pulling while still using his SLA ability for the extra dmg from a summoned creature that causes another one to disappear (effectively only getting one rounds worth of use out of something that can last for minutes)
(I'm also GMing a kingmaker game, and yes I know the party has unusual flexibility in doing a relatively very small number of encounters per day, but all the caster classes benefit from that)
Think of the Beastmaster movies, with the bird attacking the creatures face.
Think of the Beastmaster movies, with the bird attacking the creatures face.
No, I get what he is saying. Its not a conceptual issue, its a rules issue. The eagle is small. Normally that would mean it has a reach of 5 ft., i.e. it can attack a creature in the square next to it.
A creature that is smaller can enter another creature's square and attack, provoking an AoO. A small creature can't do that, but specifically giving it a reach of 0 means that they can't attack the square next to them either.
I never noticed the reach of 0 thing before, so its kind of odd.
A creature that small can enter the square as part of a fly by attack I believe, not sure if they have it though. Just thorwing an argument out there.
The eagle hasn't got fly-by attack or multi-attack as feats so would it only get one attack anyway? Its got to make a move action to fly in...or an I really missing something blindingly obvious! And a reach of 0 so AoO?
A creature that small can enter the square as part of a fly by attack I believe, not sure if they have it though. Just thorwing an argument out there.
I've never really thought about it before. If they did, they would actually provoke two AoO, one from moving into the square, and one from moving out of the square. That would really suck, and make eagles worse at attacking that actual tiny raptors.
Looking at the stat block, however, not only does it say that the eagle has a reach of 0, but that it takes up the same amount of space that a tiny creature does. I'm really wondering if the reach 0 and tiny space are a mistake. I don't really know why the eagle would be hindered in such a manner otherwise.
The eagle hasn't got fly-by attack or multi-attack as feats so would it only get one attack anyway? Its got to make a move action to fly in...or an I really missing something blindingly obvious! And a reach of 0 so AoO?
I believe that the Fly skill allows them to Hover if they make a certain DC. If they make that then they can full attack (if close enough), if not they have to move and attack, or attack and move.
Happy gaming.
Barator
"Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures: Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2-1/2 feet across, so four can fit into a single square. 25 Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can't reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent's square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also can't flank"
Quoted directly out of the GRD, I see what you mean though they should either have 5 ft reach or be tiny.