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I mean the class can Inspire and sing and stuff...And cast spells in armor and it gets the WHIP which is normally an exotic weapon. I mean come on is this fair even the fighter can't use a whip without burning a feat. And it can cure...I mean come on even the Wizard can't do that that is soooo unbalanced.
It ain't I'd just thought it was unfair that the bard got left out of the "XXXXXXXX is Overpowered" threads.
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I wondered when this thread would happen. It's about time!
I mean the class can Inspire and sing and stuff...And cast spells in armor and it gets the WHIP which is normally an exotic weapon. I mean come on is this fair even the fighter can't use a whip without burning a feat. And it can cure...I mean come on even the Wizard can't do that that is soooo unbalanced.
It ain't I'd just thought it was unfair that the bard got left out of the "XXXXXXXX is Overpowered" threads.
Hey, no worries, man. Bard is up there on my fun classes to play list. That, and Barbarian. Actually, most classes I have fun playing as are underpowered, which is something my group used to get on my case for.
"Swivl, why do you do this to yourself!?"
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What's next? Expert is overpowered because they get loads of skill points and can pick their class skills?
Commoner is overpowered because their total lack of abilities in any area means they don't have any archetypes or roles forced on them?
The bard is just like the cleric, a high powered class that no one wants to play because the whole party's up in your grill about healing and inspiring and stuff.
That's probably the balancing factor behind the class.
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What's next? Expert is overpowered because they get loads of skill points and can pick their class skills?
Commoner is overpowered because their total lack of abilities in any area means they don't have any archetypes or roles forced on them?
Don't get me started on the Expert! I mean what is that all about!
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Limited Wish lets you cast a 5th level spell. Heal is a 5th level spell for Adepts.
The thing is, I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not! If not, why are you saying the Bard is too strong? Do you know how hard it is to play a successful Bard? You have to worry about which spells to pick, what skills to put ranks in, whether to go melee or ranged, what spells to cast when, when to start and stop Inspiring, what Perform skill you should put the most ranks in... and...and....
*Post Terminated due to overload of Poster*
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** spoiler omitted **
The thing is, I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not! If not, why are you saying the Bard is too strong? Do you know how hard it is to play a successful Bard? You have to worry about which spells to pick, what skills to put ranks in, whether to go melee or ranged, what spells to cast when, when to start and stop Inspiring, what Perform skill you should put the most ranks in... and...and....
*Post Terminated due to overload of Poster*
Oh the sarcastic element is turned up to 11!
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Bards are degenerate; strong spellcasters, good fighters, able to cast in armor without spending their swift action every turn AND insane skill points? I mean, virtual performer lets them channel skills. And that's before we even count being the best buffers in the game. Bards should be banned; the rest of the party can't keep up with their raw power.
What's next? Expert is overpowered because they get loads of skill points and can pick their class skills?
WHAT?! How come I didn't know about this before?!
Totally rolling up an Expert for my next campaign :P
I started gaming in 3.0 and they had this feature then. My DM at the time suggested I take a level in expert to round out my skills list. Since I then was a bard/rogue/expert, I believe I had every skill as a class skill. If not, I was close.
What is the problem? Whats the overpowering/ruining part of the bard. Plz explain me!
I have playd a lot of supporters in my carreer as player and the bard is a hard one to get right and good!
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It's not that hard to build a strong bard. Treantmonk's Guide is a good way to start. One of the characters in my current group is a bard and he grants himself and anyone else +4 on attack and damage rolls by using inspire courage and good hope.
Bards are excellent when they have a large party to support, but even alone they are pretty good.
My next character will probably be a melee bard.
I see your point. The bonusses are great. But an extra wizard, druid, cleric is just as good. For good healing you still need a cleric.
One of the most problems for players is: the supproting role. I know one thing. I am plaing a druid now focussed on his own and animal companion and there is no one in the party who is willing to take the supporting role. No matter how good it is. In many groups where i playd i was the only one willin and capable of playing such characters.
Helping and assisting your characters is something total different then beating, shooting and shoot spells at the monsters and requires a certen way of thinking.
This thread is funny.
This thread is funny.
What until I start the "Adept WTF!!!!" thread :)
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What until I start the "Adept WTF!!!!" thread :)
Heal as a 5th level spell? :O
Why isn't every party nothing but Adepts?
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What until I start the "Adept WTF!!!!" thread :)Heal as a 5th level spell? :O
Why isn't every party nothing but Adepts?
Ah...wait until the Expert/Adept BBEG crawls out of the woodwork :)
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I bet cause you have to hear it a lot, huh?
To be fair, I get 'combat multiplier' more often, which sounds even worse. At least 'force multiplier' makes mathematical sense. But who in their right mind wants to increase the amount of combat?
On topic, my next character will be a Bard/Adept/Mystic Theurge. Most broken character ever.
If you are going to do a "real" "XXX is overpowered" thread - then pick on the Wizard, Druid or Paladin.
If you are going for a sarcastic "XXX is overpowered" thread - then pick on the Monk or Barbarian.
Bards are middle or upper middle echelon. Pretty tough, but not super tough.
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*flees!*
~chuckles~ Bards are one of my favorite classes.
A very fun thread, my favorite Pathfinder class is turning out to be the bard. I learned back in 1e the most effective tactic for a magic user was to buff the fighter instead of blasting away. The character gets the same amount of treasure. The PF bards is a master at buffing the party's warriors and gets Bardic knowledge which allows my character to have a chance to know what I have learned as a player/game master since 1977. Good hope versus fireball is no contest in a resonably sized party, good hope will in most cases cause more damage.
Doug
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The bard is just like the cleric, a high powered class that no one wants to play because the whole party's up in your grill about healing and inspiring and stuff.
That's probably the balancing factor behind the class.
I've discovered that the Cleric borders on OP when you just stop caring what the rest of the party is doing.
"Okay, combat is about to start - I cast my buffs. Wait, you guys want to keep sneaking? Nah, no time for that. Here let me trip the encounter."
"Oh you want to search the room for loot? K I'm going to go trigger all the other encounters and bring 'em back here. Can't have my buffs expire."
"You need healing? Eh, I'll give you a CLW and you can walk it off. I need my back up slots so I can recast my buffs"
"S!$%, we just got ambushed? Okay guys, time out. I cast Deeper Darkness on a rock. Don't worry, I only need to pause the combat for about 5 rounds to buff then I'll put the rock away so everyone can see again."
Oh, I'm not quite so indifferent to my party, but I make it clear that I'm a healbot. And I'm not spending 10 mins to search a room.
Oh, I'm not quite so indifferent to my party, but I make it clear that I'm a healbot. And I'm not spending 10 mins to search a room.So you're okay with the party being at 15% WBL because they're not taking the time to find the treasure?
There's plenty of time to go back and grab the treasure after all the bad guys are dead. Sometimes I think people are a little too obsessed with loot and getting it NOW. So relax, it isn't going anywhere.
There's plenty of time to go back and grab the treasure after all the bad guys are dead. Sometimes I think people are a little too obsessed with loot and getting it NOW. So relax, it isn't going anywhere.Oh, I'm not quite so indifferent to my party, but I make it clear that I'm a healbot. And I'm not spending 10 mins to search a room.So you're okay with the party being at 15% WBL because they're not taking the time to find the treasure?
That all depends on who else is around that might get to it first. Especially if you start running out of resources and have to leave the dungeon to recover.
If you don't even leave rounds, an extended combat that covers multiple encounters would take...what 20, maybe 30 rounds? 40 at most I'd think. I don't think anything is going to come around in 2-4 mins. And if it does, when we get back to grab our stuff, we'll just kill it too.
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Bards are Awesome
The only way you could make Bards more awesome is if Paizo created the Air Guitarist archetype.
2-4 minutes should be enough time to go through multiple rooms. 2-4 minutes is 20-40 rounds keep in mind. Since an encounter is only going to take you around 3-4 rounds. You can easily get 4 encounters out of the way and search several rooms very quickly (its only a move action to take on a Perception check to search). Considering you can move 60 ft. on rounds you are not fighting, or 30 ft with a take 10 on perception, you should be able to cut through a 4-6 rooms pretty easily.
You really will. If you aren't you need to keep better track of how many rounds you are actually using. Scouting ahead is usually a poor tactic, as it opens one party to member to focused fire. Remember, never split the party. Also... in my experience doing dungeons, the rooms tend to be right next to each other. I've never had to cross a 200 ft. field (and waste a whopping 4 turns) to get the next one. Maybe all your dungeons are randomly spread out rooms though. Seems weird as architecture isn't really like that but who am I judge your dungeons. Also mapping? The hell? This is SWAT tactics time, no one is here for cartography. Do that after the enemies are dead, I promise it works just as well. Clues? Riddles? Those don't take any time at all unless I guess you aren't good at clues and riddles. And traps are 2d4 rounds max unless you just chug through and hit the healstick (wand of CLWs) after. I'm sorry dungeons just don't take that long.
You should maybe look at 3E and PF dungeons. They tend to have a lack of large empty corridors that would only still only take a round or 2 to cross. Maybe catch up with something more modern? Doors being locked, barred and stuck are also pretty easy to get around usually requiring no more then a Full round action (Disable Device).
Mapping is meaningless unless your character possess goldfish memories, since the way back is pretty obvious (hint its the way you came). As to clues and riddles, first of all generally speaking, their either easy, easy once you make INT check, although I guess they could be hard for others, but that sounds like an out of game issue.
Traps are useless in 3E, PF. They deal some damage. You wand of cure light wounds yourself back to full and its like it never happened. And really if you have a person with maxed perception, taking 10 every 30 ft. should spot all of them while still giving you 30 ft. of movement every round.
Lastly, you come back for the treasure after everything has stopped breathing. And hey if something does show up for the treasure, thats just more xp and loot.
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The bard is just like the cleric, a high powered class that no one wants to play because the whole party's up in your grill about healing and inspiring and stuff.
That's probably the balancing factor behind the class.
What!
I love me a Bard, favourite class by far.