|
As I'm planning a gish character for the next adventure path we'll play I'd like to ask opinions on this kind of build. It has to be pfrpg core only.
The idea is to have a playable character for levels 1 to around 16.
I was thinking for Paladin 2, then Sorcerer(dragon) 3 (char level 5), then Dragon Disciple 4 (char level 9), then either go on on DD or eldritch knight 7 (char level 16).
It'd be primary melee, high strenght character with some buffs. Probably with a high-crit weapon (falchion) or taking the ride chain of feats and a lance... The small charisma-based buffs from Paladin 2 might come handy as well...
Magical knack is a must, of course.
any opinions and/or suggestions?
I would do paladin 3/sorcerer 2/DD 8/EK 3 for level 16. BAB 14, CL 10...this is better for a melee focused character.
|
|
gish vs. fighter is a non comparison in a 1v1 situation, because fighters cant fly. Simple as that.What about a potion of Fly? Broom/Carpet of Flying? Half-Fiend template? Half-Dragon template? Winged Boots?Those are all thing your putting in to counter just one situation. Templates are making you weaker overall, the potion can be dispelled, and the carpet/broom you could be knocked off of...fall damage is a b*&!*.
The gish could fly. Normal fighter can't compare to that.
The gish could cast displacement. Normal fighter can't cope with that.
The gish could drop an iron wall on the fighter.. fighter? nope.
The gish could teleport away, prep, teleport back in and attack. Fighter can't.Heck the gish could simply suggest the fighter go polish his armor for a few hours while the gish has some lunch, cleans himself, buffs, positions, sets the field, and then launches his attack.
Fighters simply don't stand a chance against a higher level caster.
Neither the fighter nor gish can see a rogue that is using fast stealth to track them to where the sleep and doing a CDG...so obviously they are the best and they win...right?
What's stopping the Rogue from simply quaffing a potion and flying up to the rope and climbing in the window to CDGSA your gish?
And you haven't responded to how your gish would combat an archer fighter full attacking with a bow.
What's stopping the Rogue from simply quaffing a potion and flying up to the rope and climbing in the window to CDGSA your gish?
And you haven't responded to how your gish would combat an archer fighter full attacking with a bow.
Three words:
Quickened Wind Wall.
as far as against an archer, are we talking a fighter who broke out a bow because he cant reach the gish, or a fighter specialized in ranged combat? If situation one, i would say rely on the fact that hes going to do far more damage to the fighter in the same amount of time, because hes doing full attack actions and casting spells.
If situation 2, cast a windwall and use spells to harrass the fighter. Or just get involved up close with the fighter, and make good use of AoEs against him whenever he goes to use a bow in melee range, or moves out of melee range.
Gish overpowers a fighter because his options simply are vast.
That's the point, you don't know what the fighter's build is, just like the fighter's got no way of knowing what your spell selection is.
Regardless, with the amount of feats the fighter gets he can do both, really well.
This is getting silly tho, throwing out exception after exception is not really helpful. If you want to continue this, go to the DPS Olympic thread and compare a 16th lvl gish vs a 16th lvl fighter and then we can actually go over the specifics.
Here's my EK build
20 point buy:
Str 15, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 9
Human. +2 to Str.
Traits: Reactionary, Magical Knack.
1st: Fighter. Improved Init, Weapon Focus (Falchion), Power Attack.
2nd: Wizard. Transmuter. +1 bonus to Str. Familiar.
3rd: Wizard. Combat Casting
4th: Wizard. +1 Str; Transmuter bonus goes to Con
5th: Wizard. Arcane Strike
6th: Wizard. Extend Spell. Transmuter bonus goes to Dex
7th: Eld Knt. Arcane Armor Training, Arcane Armor Mastery
8th: Eld Knt. +1 Int
9th: Eld Knt. Weapon Spec: Falchion
10th: Eld Knt. Weapon Focus: Ray
11th: Eld Knt. Improved Critical: Falchion
12th: Eld Knt. +1 Int
Gear: +3 Mithril Breastplate, +3 Mithril Buckler. +3 Falchion. +4 combined belt of Str and Con. +2 headband of INT.
AC is 10+9+4+3, plus any other buffs thrown right before combat. 26 isn't great, but isn't bad either for a caster-type.
Note: My GM has ruled that Arcane Strike, Arcane Armor Training and Arcane Armor Mastery do not require Swift Actions. The value of those feats may be reduced in other campaigns.
The value of AAT/AAM is not that it lets you have something that's 'almost as good as Mage Armor'. It's that you can wear magical armor AND a shield both of which can have bonuses put on them.
|
|
the fact that the gish just teleported to his house in the hills when he got in the extra-dimensional space? but yea...
Umm..you can't. Rope trick is on another dimension from your home. This extra dimesional space is not on the same plane as your home (hence why divinations fail unless they cross planes). Teleport does not allow you to cross planes...you can not teleport from rope trick.
|
|
What's stopping the Rogue from simply quaffing a potion and flying up to the rope and climbing in the window to CDGSA your gish?
And you haven't responded to how your gish would combat an archer fighter full attacking with a bow.
Three words:
Quickened Wind Wall.
Why would you? You have NO idea outside of meta gaming your being followed. Besides which, the rogue can just go around the wind wall and still climb up anyways. You can't pull the rope up anymore.
|
|
ah but how is the rogue following the gish if he simply flys up, hits a rope trick and sleeps inside? can the rogue sneak vertically?
fast stealth lets me sneak at my full speed of any movemnt method I can do...so yeah I can sneak vertically FTW. And fly...yeah, you know potions and magic items let rogues do that just fine.
|
I would do paladin 3/sorcerer 2/DD 8/EK 3 for level 16. BAB 14, CL 10...this is better for a melee focused character.
The idea is to have a playable character for levels 1 to around 16.I was thinking for Paladin 2, then Sorcerer(dragon) 3 (char level 5), then Dragon Disciple 4 (char level 9), then either go on on DD or eldritch knight 7 (char level 16).
Why paladin 3? I don't see mercies that useful... :-m
In Pal 2/Sor 3/DD 4/EK 7 you end with CL 12 and BAB 13 (and can specialize)...
|
|
I would do paladin 3/sorcerer 2/DD 8/EK 3 for level 16. BAB 14, CL 10...this is better for a melee focused character.
The idea is to have a playable character for levels 1 to around 16.I was thinking for Paladin 2, then Sorcerer(dragon) 3 (char level 5), then Dragon Disciple 4 (char level 9), then either go on on DD or eldritch knight 7 (char level 16).
Why paladin 3? I don't see mercies that useful... :-m
In Pal 2/Sor 3/DD 4/EK 7 you end with CL 12 and BAB 13 (and can specialize)...
Better lay on hands and better BAB mostly. Also the extra levels of DD gives you more con and natural armor. You said you wanted to be combat focused. If your going more for a hybrid, I would do the build you just mentioned.
I know I'm late to the conversation, but IMO, the eldritch knight can work well, with a certain amount of planning. For example, three possible characters:
The Combat Bard - this character concept is basically a melee-focused bard (one level in fighter) taking eldritch knight to keep BAB high.
Half-Elf Bard 4/Fighter 1
19 Str (16 +2 race +1 level), 14 Dex, 12 Con, 10 Int, 8 Wis, 14 Cha
B1- Arcane Strike, Skill Focus (Disable Device)
F1- Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
B2- Power Attack; Versatile Performance (Oratory)
B4- Cleave
Skills: Climb 1 (+8), Disable Device 5 (+10), Knowledge (Local) 2 (+7), Perception 5 (+9), Perform (Dance) 2 (+7), Perform (Oratory) 4 (+9), Spellcraft 2 (+5), Stealth 2 (+7), Use Magic Device 4 (+9)
Spells (CL 4): 1st-4, 2nd-2
Spells Known: dancing lights, daze, detect magic, mage hand, prestidigitation, read magic; animate rope, cure light wounds, hideous laughter, sleep; glitterdust, heroism
Animate rope (and a couple whips), along with sleep are probably the two best spells for a 1st level bard. Add cure light wounds and hideous laughter at 2nd and 3rd level. Heroism is absolutely your number one 2nd-level spell pick; glitterdust can both disable (blind) and reveal hidden/invisible foes. With the above skills, the character can also act as the "face" and fill in for the rogue.
The character can qualify for eldritch knight at bard 7/fighter 1. However, I prefer to wait until bard 9/fighter 1 to gain Inspire Greatness, which is IMO more useful at 10th level than Spell Critical is at 18th level. At bard 9/fighter 1, the character may look like this:
Half-Elf Bard 9/Fighter 1 (all future levels in eldritch knight for BAB +17 at 20th level)
Racial Traits: +2 Any one score (Str); Medium Size; Speed 30 ft; Low-Light Vision; Adaptability (Skill Focus as bonus feat); Elf-Blood; Elven Immunities (immune to magic sleep effects, +2 vs. Enchantment); Keen Senses (+2 Perception checks); Multitalented (two favored classes- Bard, Fighter)
Class Features: Bardic Knowledge (+5), Bardic Performance (23 rounds/day, move action, Countersong, Distraction, Fascinate DC 18, Inspire Courage +2, Inspire Competence +3, Suggestion DC 18, Dirge of Doom, Inspire Greatness), Cantrips, Versatile Performance (Dance- Acrobatics, Fly; Oratory- Diplomacy, Sense Motive), Well-Versed (+4 saves vs. bardic performance, sonic, language-dependent effects), Lore Master (take 10 on Knowledge checks, take 20 1x/day); Bonus Feat (1)
Skills*: Climb 1 (+9/+11), Disable Device 10 (+14/+16), Knowledge (Local) 4 (+12/+14), Perception 10 (+14/+16), Perform (Dance) 5 (+11/+13), Perform (Oratory) 8 (+14/+16), Spellcraft 5 (+8/+10), Stealth 4 (+8/+10), Use Magic Device 9 (+15/+17)
Feats: Arcane Strike, Cleave, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Disable Device), Vital Strike, Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Spells*: Bard (CL 9); 1st-6, 2nd-5 (4), 3rd-4
Spells Known: dancing lights, daze, detect magic, mage hand, prestidigitation, read magic; animate rope, cure light wounds, feather fall, hideous laughter, identify; cat's grace, glitterdust, heroism, sound burst; cure serious wounds, dispel magic, fear, haste
Gear: +2 mithral breastplate (+8 AC, +5 Max Dex, -1 Armor Check; 8,200 gp), +1 composite longbow (+7 Str bonus) (3,100 gp), +2 greatsword (8,350 gp), ring of protection +2 (8,000 gp), amulet of natural armor +2 (8,000 gp), belt of giant strength +4 (16,000 gp), cloak of resistance +2 (4,000 gp), handy haversack (2,000 gp), headband of alluring charisma +2 (4,000 gp), 350 gp of miscellaneous gear
Combat*: AC 24 (touch 14, flat-footed 22), 69.5 avg. hp, +17/+12 (+19/+14) greatsword (2d6+12 damage, 19-20/x2) or +10/+5 (+12/+7) longbow (1d8+8 damage, 20/x3), Fort +8 (+10), Ref +10 (+12), Will +7 (+9), Init +6, CMB +14, CMD 26
*- second values include the effects of heroism (90 min duration; +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, skill checks, and saves)
Melee combat tactics: Round 1- casts haste as a standard action (9 round duration; +30 ft enhancement bonus to speed, +1 on attack rolls, +1 dodge bonus to AC and Ref saves, one extra attack on full attack action) and activates Inspire Courage (+2 competence bonus on attack rolls and weapon damage) or Inspire Greatness (+2d10+2 hp- avg. 13, +2 competence bonus on attack rolls, +1 on Fort saves) on self as a move action, Round 2- maintains Inspire Greatness as a free action, draws greatsword and moves toward opponent(s) at 60 ft speed as a move action, activates Arcane Strike as a swift action (weapon gains untyped +2 bonus on damage), and Power Attacks (-2 on attack roll, +6 on damage rolls) with either Cleave or Vital Strike, Round 3+- maintains Inspire Greatness as a free action, activates Arcane Strike as a swift action, and Power Attacks with a full-attack action. This can occur up to 4 times per day (haste), for up to 5 rounds average per fight (Bardic Performance); Arcane Strike and Power Attack are unlimited.
AC 25 (touch 15, flat-footed 22), 82.5 avg. hp, +20/+20/+15 greatsword (2d6+20 damage, 19-20/x2), Fort +11, Ref +13
OR
AC 25 (touch 15, flat-footed 22), 69.5 avg. hp, +20/+20/+15 greatsword (2d6+22 damage, 19-20/x2), Ref +13
The Combat Sorcerer - this variation on the character concept focuses on the power of a draconic heritage. Spell progression starts slower than the bard (none for the first two levels), but improves fairly quickly (surpasses the bard around 7th-8th level); BAB is about the same. Thematically, the chaotic dragon bloodlines (black, red, white, brass, copper) fit this particular concept best (I used brass for the character below).
Human Barbarian 2/Sorcerer 3
16 Str (15 +1 level), 14 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Int, 8 Wis, 16 Cha (14 +2 race)
B1- Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Falchion)
B2- Rage Power (Animal Fury)
S1- Arcane Strike, Eschew Materials
S3- Arcane Armor Training
Skills: Climb 2 (+8), Intimidate 2 (+8), Knowledge (Arcana) 5 (+9), Knowledge (Nature) 2 (+6), Perception 4 (+6), Spellcraft 3 (+7), Stealth 2 (+4), Survival 2 (+4), Use Magic Device 2 (+8)
Spells (CL 3): 1st-6
Spells Known: "fire-finger" (as ray of frost, but fire damage), detect magic. flare, mage hand, read magic; enlarge person, identify, mage armor (bloodline), true strike
Identify and true strike are your first spell choices; identify because you (usually) can take the time remove your armor before casting it and true strike because it doesn't have a somatic component (no risk of arcane spell failure). Flare also doesn't have a somatic component (although its effect isn't much). At sorcerer 3, you can take Arcane Armor Training; hopefully you can acquire either a +1 mithral chain shirt (2100 gp; 10% ASF) or a mithral breastplate (4200 gp; 15% ASF) for a better AC than mage armor. Enlarge person is a good buff to put on yourself before raging (22 Str total, large size) if you want to do a lot of damage.
Knowledge (Arcana) has been brought up to maximum to qualify for dragon disciple. Taking just four levels of dragon disciple gives the character +4 Str, +2 to Natural Armor (+3 total), Dragon Bite, and Breath Weapon. Very attractive for a combat character, even though they "only" gain +3 BAB and three levels of spell progression. The bonuses for the next four levels (Blindsense 30 ft, +2 Con, +2 Int, Dragon Form 1x/day, etc.) are IMO not worth the loss in BAB and total possible spell progression; taking all 10 levels of eldritch knight and 1 more level of sorcerer (barbarian 2/sorcerer 4/dragon disciple 4/eldritch knight 10) gives BAB +17 and spell progression as a sorcerer 16 (8th level spells). At 10th level, the character may look similar to this:
Human Barbarian 2/Sorcerer 3/Dragon Disciple 4/Eldritch Knight 1
Racial Traits: +2 to any one Ability Score (Cha); Medium Size; Speed 30 ft; Extra feat at 1st level; Skilled (+1 Skill Rank per level)
Class Features: Fast Movement (+10 ft), Rage (8 rounds/day; +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 Will saves, -2 AC), Rage Power (Animal Fury- 1d4 + 0.5 Str bonus bite attack at -5), Uncanny Dodge; Bloodline-Brass Dragon (Perception is class skill; +1 damage per die w/fire spells; Powers- Claws (1d6 + Str bonus, considered magic) 7 rounds/day, Dragon Resistances (Acid Resistance 5, +1 Natural Armor increase); Spells- mage armor, resist energy, fly), Cantrips, Eschew Materials; Blood of Dragons, Natural Armor Increase (+2), Ability Boost (+4 Str), Bloodline Feat (1), Dragon Bite (additional attack with claws, 1d6 + 1.5 Str bonus), Extra Spellcasting (+3 Sorcerer), Breath Weapon (7d6 fire, 60 ft line, DC 17) 1x/day; Bonus Feat (1), Diverse Training
Skills*: Climb 2 (+7/+9), Intimidate 5 (+19/+21), Knowledge (Arcana) 5 (+9/+11), Knowledge (Nature) 2 (+6/+8), Perception 6 (+8/+10), Spellcraft 8 (+12/+14), Stealth 2 (+3/+5), Survival 2 (+4/+6), Use Magic Device 7 (+14/+16)
Feats: Arcane Armor Mastery, Arcane Armor Training, Arcane Strike, Dazzling Display (Falchion), Eschew Materials, Improved Initiative, Intimidating Prowess, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Falchion)
Spells (CL 6)*: 1st-7, 2nd-6 (5), 3rd-4 (3)
Spells Known: "fire-finger", detect magic. flare, mage hand, prestidigitation, read magic, touch of fatigue; enlarge person, identify, mage armor, magic missile, true strike; false life, resist energy, scorching ray; fly, heroism
Gear: +2 mithral breastplate (+8 AC, +5 Max Dex, -1 Armor Check; 8,200 gp), +1 composite longbow (+7 Str bonus) (3,100 gp), +1 keen falchion (8,375 gp), ring of protection +2 (8,000 gp), amulet of natural armor +2 (8,000 gp), belt of giant strength +4 (16,000 gp), cloak of resistance +2 (4,000 gp), handy haversack (2,000 gp), headband of alluring charisma +2 (4,000 gp), 325 gp of miscellaneous gear
Combat*: AC 27 (touch 14, flat-footed 25), 82.5 (94) avg. hp, +16/+11 (+18/+13) falchion (2d4+11 damage, 15-20/x2) or +10/+5 (+12/+7) longbow (1d8+8 damage, 20/x3), Fort +11 (+13), Ref +6 (+8), Will +6 (+8), Init +6, CMB +14, CMD 26
*- second values include the effects of false life (6 hour duration; 1d10+6 temporary hp, average 11.5) and heroism (60 min duration; +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, skill checks, and saves)
Melee Combat Tactics: If given advance warning, casts enlarge person (6 min duration; +2 Str, -2 Dex, large size) on self before combat. Round 1- casts true strike (+20 on next attack roll, ignore concealment miss chance) as a standard action (using Arcane Armor Mastery as a swift action) and moves 40 ft while drawing the falchion as a move action; Round 2- activates Arcane Strike (weapon gains +2 untyped bonus to damage) as a swift action, enters Rage (+4 Str, +4 Con, +2 Will saves, -2 AC) as a free action, moves toward opponent(s) at 40 ft and Power Attacks (-2 on attack roll, +6 on damage rolls), Round 3+- continues Rage and Power Attacks with a full-attack action; alternately, may use Dazzling Display as a full-attack action with +25 (+26 if enlarge person is active, +30 vs. medium size or smaller foes) on the Intimidate check. This can occur approximately 2 times per day for combats lasting 5 rounds on average (Rage); enlarge person and true strike can be cast up to 3 times per day in combination (7 1st level spell slots); Arcane Strike and Power Attack are unlimited.
AC 23 (touch 12, flat-footed 22), 114 avg. hp, +18/+13 (+38 with true strike) falchion (2d6+24 damage, 15-20/x2) and +12 bite (1d6+8 damage, 20/x2), Fort +15, Ref +7, Will +10, CMB +18, CMD 30
OR
AC 25 (touch 12, flat-footed 23), 114 avg. hp, +18/+13 (+38 with true strike) falchion (2d4+22 damage, 15-20/x2) and +12 bite (1d4+7 damage, 20/x2), Fort +15, Will +10, CMB +16, CMD 28
The Combat Wizard - this character concept is focused mainly on spellcasting and ranged combat, with melee combat being a secondary option from 3th-5th level on. This specific character took one level of ranger, instead of fighter, for the ability to use wands of barkskin and cure light wounds (as well as other spell trigger items from the ranger spell list).
Elf Wizard (Transmuter) 4/Ranger 1
14 Str (13 +1 enhancement), 18 Dex (15 +2 race +1 level), 12 Con (14 -2 race), 16 Int (14 +2 race), 10 Wis, 10 Cha
W1- Point Blank Shot, Scribe Scroll
W3- Weapon Finesse
R1- Favored Enemy (Human or some other appropriate enemy for the campaign)
W4- Power Attack
Skills: Craft (Bowmaking) 2 (+8), Knowledge (Arcana) 5 (+11), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 2 (+8), Knowledge (Nature) 2 (+8), Knowledge (Planes) 2 (+8), Perception 5 (+10), Spellcraft 5 (+11), Stealth 2 (+9), Survival 4 (+7)
Spells (CL 4): 0-4, 1st-4+1, 2nd-3+1
Spellbook: All 0-level except Evocation, Illusion; enlarge person, expeditious retreat, identify, mage armor, magic weapon, ray of enfeeblement, sleep, true strike; acid arrow, cat's grace, rope trick, web
During the first three levels, use the Physical Enhancement school power on Dex; coupled with Point Blank Shot, this gives the character a good attack bonus (+4-5, +5-6 at 30 ft or less) with a bow or ranged touch spells (acid splash, ray of enfeeblement, acid arrow). Weapon Finesse at 3rd level gives a similar attack bonus with light melee weapons and the rapier; taking a ranger level at 4th (allows use of elven curve blade), increasing Dex with the advancement bonus, and switching the Physical Enhancement bonus to Str improves melee ability more; as does Power Attack at 5th level. AC during this time will mainly be from Dex and mage armor, with boosts from a mithral buckler (4th level and up) and a wand of barkskin (as soon as affordable after reaching 4th level).
Enlarge Person can increase the damage of both bows and melee. Magic weapon can fill in for the lack of Arcane Strike. True strike is useful for attacks at difficult to hit targets. Since the character is so Dex focused, cat's grace is a "must have" 2nd-level spell.
The limited number of feats over the first five levels are quickly rectified with bonus feats at 6th (W5) and 7th (EK1). Additional bonus feats at 11th (EK5) and 15th (EK9) help round out the progression. After reaching 16th (EK10), I recommend finishing with four levels of loremaster (mainly for the Weapon Trick and Applicable Knowledge Secrets); yes, you will have to "waste" one feat on Skill Focus to qualify. A wizard 5/ranger 1/eldritch knight 10/loremaster 4 ends up with +15 BAB and spell progression as a wizard 18. At 10th level, the character may look like this:
Elf Wizard (Transmuter) 5/Ranger 1/Eldritch Knight 4
Racial Traits: +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con; Medium Size; Speed 30 ft; Low-Light Vision; Elven Immunities (immune to magical sleep, +2 saves vs. Enchantment); Elven Magic (+2 caster checks to overcome spell resistance, +2 Spellcraft checks to identify magic item properties); Keen Senses (+2 Perception); Weapon Familiarity (proficient with longbows, longswords, rapiers, shortbows; "elven" weapons are considered martial)
Class Features: Arcane Bond (Ring), Arcane School- Transmutation (Opposed- Evocation, Illusion; Physical Enhancement +2 (Con), Telekinetic Fist (1d4+2, 30 ft) 7x/day), Cantrips, Scribe Scroll, Bonus Feat (1); Favored Enemy (+2 Human), Track (+1), Wild Empathy (+1); Bonus Feat (1), Diverse Training, Extra Spellcasting (+3 Wizard)
Skills: Craft (Bowmaking) 2 (+9), Knowledge (Arcana) 10 (+17), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 2 (+9), Knowledge (Nature) 2 (+9), Knowledge (Planes) 8 (+15), Linguistics 4 (+11; Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Elven, Ignan, Sylvan, Terran), Perception 10 (+15), Spellcraft 10 (+17), Stealth 2 (+11), Survival 9 (+12)
Feats: Arcane Armor Training, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wand, Craft Wondrous Item, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Scribe Scroll, Weapon Finesse
Spells (CL 8)*: 0-4, 1st-5+1, 2nd-4+1, 3rd-4+1 (4), 4th-3+1 (3)
Spellbook: All 0-level except Evocation, Illusion; enlarge person, expeditious retreat, identify, mage armor, magic weapon, ray of enfeeblement, shield, sleep, summon monster I, true strike; acid arrow, bull's strength, cat's grace, rope trick, see invisibility, summon monster II, web; dispel magic, greater magic weapon, haste, heroism, magic circle against evil, stinking cloud, summon monster III; black tentacles, mass enlarge person, mnemonic enhancer, stoneskin; 615 gp for extra spells (per Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, pg 219)
Gear: +2 mithral chain shirt (+6 AC, +6 Max Dex, no Armor Check; 5,100 gp), +1 mithral buckler (+2 AC, no Armor Check, 0% Spell Failure; 2,015 gp), +1 composite longbow (+2 Str bonus) (2,600 gp), +1 keen elven curve blade (8,380 gp) w/ greater magic weapon (+2), ring of defense (bonded item; magic circle against evil (CL 6) 1x/day, shield (CL 2) 2x/day; 7,920 gp), amulet of strength (custom item; bull's strength 2x/day; 4,320 gp), belt of incredible dexterity +4 (16,000 gp), cloak of resistance +1 (1,000 gp), handy haversack (2,000 gp), headband of vast intelligence +2 (4,000 gp), wand of barkskin (50 charges) (4,500 gp), wand of cure light wounds (50 charges) (750 gp), wand of ray of enfeeblement (50 charges) (750 gp), 2,050 gp of miscellaneous gear
Combat*: AC 24 (26/28; 16 (18) touch, 18 (20/22) flat-footed), 72.5 avg. hp, +14/+9 (+16/+11) elven curve blade (1d10+5, 15-20/x2) or +14/+9 (+16/+11) longbow (1d8+3, 20/x3), Fort +8 (+10/+11), Ref +11 (+13/+14), Will +6 (+8/+9), Init +6, CMB +9, CMD 25
*- second values include the effects of barkskin (from wand; 30 min duration, +2 enhancement to Natural Armor), greater magic weapon (8 hour duration), heroism (80 min duration; +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, skill checks, and saves), magic circle against evil (from ring; 60 min duration; +2 deflection AC, +2 resistance vs. attacks from evil, block/suppress mental control/possession from evil creatures, hedge out evil summoned creatures), and mnemonic enhancer (regain heroism).
Melee Combat Tactics: If given advance warning, the character will cast either enlarge person (8 min duration; +2 Str, -2 Dex, large size) on self or mass enlarge person (8 min duration; up to 8 targets +2 Str, -2 Dex, large size) on the party, activate bull's strength (3 min duration, +4 enhancement bonus to Str) from amulet of strength, and activate shield (2 min duration; +4 shield bonus to AC, block magic missiles) from ring of defense. Round 1- cast haste (8 round duration; +30 ft enhancement bonus to speed, +1 on attack rolls, +1 dodge bonus to AC and Ref saves, one extra attack on full attack action) as a standard action and draw elven curve blade while moving 60 ft as a move action. Round 2- moves 60 ft as a move action if necessary and Power Attacks (-2 attack rolls, +6 damage rolls). Round 3+- Power Attacks with full-attack action. This can be accomplished 1 (mass enlarge person) or 2 (bull's strength, haste, shield) times per day for combats lasting up to 8 rounds.
Combat: AC 27 (29; 15 (17) touch, 21 (23) flat-footed), +14/+14/+9 elven curve blade (2d8+15, 15-20/x2), Ref +13 (+14), CMB +13, CMD 28
OR
Combat: AC 25 (27; 17 (19) touch, 18 (20) flat-footed), +15/+15/+10 elven curve blade (1d10+11, 15-20/x2), Ref +14 (+15)
Note that at 5th level, the bard has +4 BAB, while the sorcerer and wizard are both at +3. All three have the same BAB (+7) at 10th level.
I'm also looking at EK builds, but specifically in the context of the Pathfinder Society (so none of this 20-level build stuff, and the character must be viable in some fashion at every level). I'm musing over whether to do a weapon-and-shield route or a two-handed weapon, currently leaning toward two-handed weapon. My big problem is armor class. Armor spell failure is a real problem, and using up two feats to negate 20% of the spell failure is, well, using up two feats. By the time you reach EK, Mage Armor is not cutting it (+4 is too little). Dribs and drabs from magic items (+1 ring, +1 amulet, etc.) can't get you up to the 20+ range that you need. Miss chance spells are helpful, but I would like to find some way to drive an EK into the 20+level AC range. Recommendations?
Still spell.
My build for this:
Wizard 5/ fighter 1/ EK 6.
Human
Str 16 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 18 Wis 10 Cha 7
Traits: Heirloom weapon, Reactionary, Focused Mind
Feats (in order):
1 Toughness (h) extra traits (b) spell focus
3 power attack
5 eschew materials (b) still spell
7 Arcane strike (b) weapon focus
9 Improved Familiar
11 Combat Casting (b) weapon specialization
Since you can use it and have reason to do so go all out with full plate and whatever shield you prefer. I went with buckler and long sword so I could two handed attack when I wanted but that is optional.
|
|
My build for this:Wizard 5/ fighter 1/ EK 6.
Human
Str 16 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 18 Wis 10 Cha 7Traits: Heirloom weapon, Reactionary, Focused Mind
Feats (in order):
1 Toughness (h) extra traits (b) spell focus
3 power attack
5 eschew materials (b) still spell
7 Arcane strike (b) weapon focus
9 Improved Familiar
11 Combat Casting (b) weapon specializationSince you can use it and have reason to do so go all out with full plate and whatever shield you prefer. I went with buckler and long sword so I could two handed attack when I wanted but that is optional.
He'd have to drop the str to 14 or int to 16...PFS games run on 15 point buy, not 20.
Or you can use my 15 point buy elf stats...
str 13, dex 16, con 10, int 19, wis 7, cha 7. Your gonna be a caster for pretty much your first 8 or so levels though. Although at low levels, with shield and armor boosting your AC to 21, you can have some fun...even with 10 con.
Last time I down loaded the rules it had "high fantasy 20 point buy" as the point buy to use -- must have been updated again since then.
In fact after redownloading it I have the same thing:
"Pathfinder Society follows the “purchase” system used
for generating ability scores as explained on pages 15–16
of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. Pathfinder Society
uses the “High Fantasy” choice of 20 points, allowing
you to build a solid PC at 1st level. Please remember that
no score can be reduced below 7 or raised above 18 using
this method. Racial modifiers are applied after the points
are spent, so it is possible to begin play with a low ability
score of 5 and a high ability score of 20, depending on
your race choice."
|
|
Last time I down loaded the rules it had "high fantasy 20 point buy" as the point buy to use -- must have been updated again since then.
In fact after redownloading it I have the same thing:
"Pathfinder Society follows the “purchase” system used
for generating ability scores as explained on pages 15–16
of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. Pathfinder Society
uses the “High Fantasy” choice of 20 points, allowing
you to build a solid PC at 1st level. Please remember that
no score can be reduced below 7 or raised above 18 using
this method. Racial modifiers are applied after the points
are spent, so it is possible to begin play with a low ability
score of 5 and a high ability score of 20, depending on
your race choice."
Okay I just re-downloaded as well and yep 20...I guess this may put a damper on the 15 as standard point buy discussion....
Ah well.
Yeah well it's not the first time they've done a 180 from what they've written in the book. Sean Reynolds has done as much with the cestus and gauntlets and such just recently too.
|
|
Yeah well it's not the first time they've done a 180 from what they've written in the book. Sean Reynolds has done as much with the cestus and gauntlets and such just recently too.
Off topic...can you give a link for that?
On topic, with 20, switch my stats for 14 str, 16 dex, 12 con, 19 int, 7 wis, 7 cha.
Off Topic: Yeah here is the train wreck in progress -- or as I like to call it, "We didn't write what we meant to even though we should know better."
In that page Sean goes all over the place and back and forth finally landing on a direct contradiction of what they put in the books.
Just a bit annoying to me.
There was also that whole bit about, "Vital strike requires a standard action and can't be used with other feats."
That changed right as soon as they published a book that has an NPC that uses vital strike with whirlwind attack (which violates whirlwind attacks rules too) which lead to another thread (I don't have a link) where they decided to change how it works (It was either JJ or JB that did that fancy bit).
Just wish they wouldn't make such a mess out of their own rules.
|
PFS stops at 11th level, so you'll be hard-pressed to do the Eldrich Knight build (you'll miss any true "payoff" for your high level character). With that said, if you don't mind min-maxing:
Str: 19
Int: 17
Wis: 7
Dex: 10
Con: 12
Chr: 7
Big issue is you'll be playing a mage through most of your career (except you'll be down a level, like a sorcerer, since you start as a fighter), and only get 4 levels "into" the prestige class. Put bumps in Int, then Str. You'll be respectable at all levels, you'll start off a high-str fighter, at 2nd and 3rd more-or-less stay there, at 4th you'll drop your armor and concentrate as a mage, and for your last 2 or 3 levels feel like a gish. Sadly with PF being as it is you don't get to see the true "payoff" levels, but being a high strength frontline early will make you feel useful, and taking over as a great buffer / battlefield controller will also feel good, so I think you'll have fun with it.
EDIT: and forget dex, seriously; monsters hit, especially the ones the party cares about. Just hit back harder, or mirror image yourself to reduce some damage.
If you allow 3.5 feats, my EK would start off as Transmuter 1 with Still spell and Practiced Metamagic: Still Spell, to reduce Still Spell to a +0 spell level adjustment, and apply it to all my spells.
Go for full plate and two-hander. No rule saying that you can't HOLD your greatsword/falchion/etc in one hand while casting. Take Fighter at lv2 and go nuts. For traits, take Magical Knack and Heirloom Weapon to get some kick-ass two-handed exotic weapon, or a bastard sword if you wanna go for shields. And make that sword your magical focus.
|
|
If you allow 3.5 feats, my EK would start off as Transmuter 1 with Still spell and Practiced Metamagic: Still Spell, to reduce Still Spell to a +0 spell level adjustment, and apply it to all my spells.
Go for full plate and two-hander. No rule saying that you can't HOLD your greatsword/falchion/etc in one hand while casting. Take Fighter at lv2 and go nuts. For traits, take Magical Knack and Heirloom Weapon to get some kick-ass two-handed exotic weapon, or a bastard sword if you wanna go for shields. And make that sword your magical focus.
1) the current person we are helping is in a PFS game...so 3.5 is just out.
2) you can hold a great axe and let go to cast a spell and re-grip...unless the weapon is your arcane bond. In which case, james jacob has clarified that holding the two handed weapon does not meet the wield requirment for having a weapon as a bonded item...and will cause you to have to make a DC 20+spell level concentration check. So the most flavorful item to arcane bond as a EK is also the most undoable one. Before you mention staffs, a quartstaff is a double weapon and double weapons can be wielded one handed. If you are doing sword and shield, a light shield is considered to leave your hands free for spellcasting. This ruling is most likely done to not hose over the cleric and paladin and not so much the fighter/mages (the game developers seem to have some rather strong dislike for this archetype). If you wanna use the heavy shield, you can however arcane bind your heavy shield and re-sheath your sword as a move to cast a spell and then quickdraw...this draws an AoO...and require a feat.
I'm also looking at EK builds, but specifically in the context of the Pathfinder Society (so none of this 20-level build stuff, and the character must be viable in some fashion at every level). I'm musing over whether to do a weapon-and-shield route or a two-handed weapon, currently leaning toward two-handed weapon. My big problem is armor class. Armor spell failure is a real problem, and using up two feats to negate 20% of the spell failure is, well, using up two feats. By the time you reach EK, Mage Armor is not cutting it (+4 is too little). Dribs and drabs from magic items (+1 ring, +1 amulet, etc.) can't get you up to the 20+ range that you need. Miss chance spells are helpful, but I would like to find some way to drive an EK into the 20+level AC range. Recommendations?
If you don't mind a lack of direct damage spells, see my Combat Bard above. Alternately, the Combat Sorcerer is also decent, but starts off with no/limited spellcasting. If you want to concentrate more on spells, with melee being a secondary option, then the Combat Wizard is pretty decent. All three of them are "viable in some fashion at every level," hence the progression notes to 5th level and a sample character description at 10th.
|
|
And James specifically states that a magic staff is not a quarterstaff : some magic staves can be used as a quarterstaff, but you need only one hand to wield a staff. Note that wizard can use a staff or a weapon (like a quarterstaff) as their bonded item.
In a later thread (wheer the staff issue came up yet AGAIN) James does clarify that the double special ability of page 144 on the bottom does indeed mean that you can use a double weapon one handed to strike with just one side. The reason he used the magic staff explaination was that he plum forgot the double weapon rules.
Also ther are NO one handed double weapons in core. And I am pretty sure it's not in the AA either. A 3.5 weapon does not count as the whole one handed use for one side attck is a PF rule...NOT a 3.5 rule...besides which in any edition a 1 handed double weapon is broke.
|
|
This is what james jacobs said...so believe the game designer or not...your choice. But I think most people will take his word over yours.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/whatActionWouldItTakeToSimplyHoldATwoHandedWeaponInOneHand&pag e=2&source=search#54
|
|
This is what james jacobs said...so believe the game designer or not...your choice. But I think most people will take his word over yours.Great appeal to authority. That's not as if James says in the same thread that he's only giving his own interpretation and not official ruling. Or as if he says two posts latter that he doesn't know every rules. And that prevent you from giving any argument.
Which none of negates the fact that the one handed ruling is HIS clarification. All he is saying is take it or not for YOUR game, but as far as "offical" goes, until the FAQ anyways. So yes we can rule zero what james said...that still doesn't make you right, and until the FAQ, what james said might as well be offical.
As for his comment on not knowing all the rules...yeah he doesn't know them all at all times, he's not a computer. He is allowed to forget a rule and not be jumped at because of it. That was what that comment was about.