I think they get 5..... I seem to recall that James confirmed this somewhere on these boards, but I might be mistaken. (It is a "all or nothing" roll)They get 1.
For example, a new Kindom with Command DC of 21, if the Treasurer rolls a modified 26, does the Kingdom get 1 BP or 5?
That's what I recall as well - frankly, my PCs are hosed the other way around.
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That's what I recall as well - frankly, my PCs are hosed the other way around.I think they get 5..... I seem to recall that James confirmed this somewhere on these boards, but I might be mistaken. (It is a "all or nothing" roll)They get 1.
For example, a new Kindom with Command DC of 21, if the Treasurer rolls a modified 26, does the Kingdom get 1 BP or 5?
Having run some of this for my Kingmaker game I would have to agree that the 5 BP method is a requirement. Otherwise, it would take forever to build anything.
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On a separate matter, over the issue of over building brothels, I may have a idea that could work. I would say that it requires a regular stability or loyalty check (not sure which would be more appropriate yet) to keep the attached house from downgrading to a tenement (and gaining the unrest from it). After all brothels are probably not good for neighborhoods and housing values :)
On a separate matter, over the issue of over building brothels, I may have a idea that could work. I would say that it requires a regular stability or loyalty check (not sure which would be more appropriate yet) to keep the attached house from downgrading to a tenement (and gaining the unrest from it). After all brothels are probably not good for neighborhoods and housing values :)
It all depends on your society. If there is little or no social stigma against brothels, there is no reason they cannot become areas of great economic growth. It is more of a modern thing to consider brothels degrading to society. In Ancient Greece, they were prominently displayed in the marketplace. In ancient Japan it was a wealthy mans pleasure, and treating other wealthy men to a night in the brothel was a sign of respect and a way to brag. In early New Orleans history, one of the most powerful women in the city ran the brothel, which was a major ecconic draw. Without modern western values that degrade the profession, there is no reason to think that brothels should be low class or destructive. In this campaign world, they can temples to the goddess Calistria.
Having run some of this for my Kingmaker game I would have to agree that the 5 BP method is a requirement. Otherwise, it would take forever to build anything.That's what I recall as well - frankly, my PCs are hosed the other way around.I think they get 5..... I seem to recall that James confirmed this somewhere on these boards, but I might be mistaken. (It is a "all or nothing" roll)They get 1.
For example, a new Kindom with Command DC of 21, if the Treasurer rolls a modified 26, does the Kingdom get 1 BP or 5?
It is 5 BP in that case.
If you’re successful, divide your result by 5 (dropping any fractions) and increase your Treasury’s BP by that amount.
I think they get 5..... I seem to recall that James confirmed this somewhere on these boards, but I might be mistaken. (It is a "all or nothing" roll)They get 1.
For example, a new Kindom with Command DC of 21, if the Treasurer rolls a modified 26, does the Kingdom get 1 BP or 5?
Make an Economy check against your Command DC at the end of your Income
phase. If you’re successful, divide your result by 5 (dropping any fractions) and increase your Treasury’s BP by that amount.I have not seen any errata that says subtract, but he will probably be on here over the next day or so to clarifay
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It all depends on your society. If there is little or no social stigma against brothels, there is no reason they cannot become areas of great economic growth. It is more of a modern thing to consider brothels degrading to society. In Ancient Greece, they were prominently displayed in the marketplace. In ancient Japan it was a wealthy mans pleasure, and treating other wealthy men to a night in the brothel was a sign of respect and a way to brag. In early New Orleans history, one of the most powerful women in the city ran the brothel, which was a major ecconic draw. Without modern western values that degrade the profession, there is no reason to think that brothels should be low class or destructive. In this campaign world, they can temples to the goddess Calistria.
True, true, just thinking of a possibly good way to keep it in check. I have the frontier town old western saloon/brothel or seedier parts of medieval Europe stuck in my head. Too many of the wrong kind of movies I guess.
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When you make an Economy check to generate your BP, you divide the result by 5, drop fractions, and that's how many BP you add to your treasury... but ONLY if you make the check. If you fail the check, you add zero BP.
Originally, there was an element of subtracting your Economy from the result, but that got cut for two reasons: because it made it too difficult to get BP early in the game, and because it was unnecessarily complicated.
for selling magic items. i know you can only sell one magic item per district but what happens if you make a second or third district that is void of anything. by the wording i am guessing it is sell the magic items one per district even if it is void. does there have to be a place that makes magic items in a district to sell magic items from that district. or could players simply make a district full of magic item making buildings and have five or six districts that have nothing in them and still sell all those magic items.
for selling magic items. i know you can only sell one magic item per district but what happens if you make a second or third district that is void of anything. by the wording i am guessing it is sell the magic items one per district even if it is void. does there have to be a place that makes magic items in a district to sell magic items from that district. or could players simply make a district full of magic item making buildings and have five or six districts that have nothing in them and still sell all those magic items.
Well, they're still paying upkeep for all those districts, so it's not necessarily desirable. By RAW I think you could do the trick you describe, but as a GM I would simply not let an empty district count for this purpose.
for selling magic items. i know you can only sell one magic item per district but what happens if you make a second or third district that is void of anything. by the wording i am guessing it is sell the magic items one per district even if it is void. does there have to be a place that makes magic items in a district to sell magic items from that district. or could players simply make a district full of magic item making buildings and have five or six districts that have nothing in them and still sell all those magic items.
Well looking at the book, you'll notice that each district has its own list of item slots so I'd say a DM could rule that you can only sell the magic items created in a given. I can't find anything in the RAW supporting either side really.
Does the defensive bonus form city walls stack? Or do they only apply once for that city? Or do they only take effect if the attack comes from a side of the city with a wall thus making so only 1 wall is adding in any given attack?
Sorry if this has been asked and answered before I tried using the forum search function but didn't find anything.
Does the defensive bonus form city walls stack? Or do they only apply once for that city? Or do they only take effect if the attack comes from a side of the city with a wall thus making so only 1 wall is adding in any given attack?
Sorry if this has been asked and answered before I tried using the forum search function but didn't find anything.
Yes. No. Absolutely not - you are most emphatically NOT building a wall 'on only one side of your city (district)' - you are building 1-4 levels of 'City Wall' per district.
Every 'City Wall' improvement on every district in the entire city adds to the city's defensive modifier.
So multiple grid cities have additive wall? A 2 grid city would be +8 DM?
And so on.Nope; that gets out of control too fast.
Multiple grids each need their own walls, but a whole city can't get more DM from walls than the basic wall bonus.
THAT SAID, multiple walls CAN help defend inner districts, if you get down to the nitty gritty and track mass combat attacks on a district-by-district basis rather than just a whole city at once.
So city walls Defense mods don't stack, but as the GM you can rule that they can help when defending inner districts.
So city walls Defense mods don't stack, but as the GM you can rule that they can help when defending inner districts.So multiple grid cities have additive wall? A 2 grid city would be +8 DM?
And so on.Nope; that gets out of control too fast.
Multiple grids each need their own walls, but a whole city can't get more DM from walls than the basic wall bonus.
THAT SAID, multiple walls CAN help defend inner districts, if you get down to the nitty gritty and track mass combat attacks on a district-by-district basis rather than just a whole city at once.
Thanks for the link Garreth, I kind of thought that might be the case.
By the way, why does a Barracks add to the defence of a city, but a Garrison does not? I simply don't understand the reasoning for this one...
it could be that a garrsion is more admin / supply / where as a barracks implies troops / training
but yeah, both should add
in UK terms "Garrison also specifically refers to any of the major military which have more than one barracks or camp and their own military headquarter"
Just wondering: With all the new kingdom and city building rules, is there any chance we might be seeing an NPC chart like 3.5 had for how many of each class are in a city? Or at least what the highest level character in a city is? I don't imagine there are many 17th + level characters just laying around in a tiny hamlet.
Just wondering: With all the new kingdom and city building rules, is there any chance we might be seeing an NPC chart like 3.5 had for how many of each class are in a city? Or at least what the highest level character in a city is? I don't imagine there are many 17th + level characters just laying around in a tiny hamlet.
I dont think hamlets got a 17th level npc. those were reserved for metropolises I think. The GMG has the populations in it, so it might be in there.
PS: After checking I dont see it in there either.
Just wondering: With all the new kingdom and city building rules, is there any chance we might be seeing an NPC chart like 3.5 had for how many of each class are in a city? Or at least what the highest level character in a city is? I don't imagine there are many 17th + level characters just laying around in a tiny hamlet.
if it has a tavern, there will be...otherwise how will the 17th level characters get hired to go off on an adventure?
The only reason I really ask is that my players want to hire a 17th level wizard to cast some spells for them and even in the 3.5 DMG the were no 17th level NPCs randomly found in any size town. I figure its a DM call but I was curious if we'd ever see some kinda chart to help flesh out cities easier.
The only reason I really ask is that my players want to hire a 17th level wizard to cast some spells for them and even in the 3.5 DMG the were no 17th level NPCs randomly found in any size town. I figure its a DM call but I was curious if we'd ever see some kinda chart to help flesh out cities easier.
Golarion, as written, is a pretty low-level setting. Most of the kings and movers-and-shakers of the world are about 10th level. Smaller counties have 7th level characters as the king. Smaller towns have the highest level character in the 2-4 range. (Irovetti showing up as a 15th level is extraordinary, and this is called out in the book he's in.)
You can change this for your game if you'd like, but that's the default setting assumption. Finding a wizard of that level is just flatly impossible: whatever they were hoping he'd do for them, that's the PC's job to do.|
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Just wondering: With all the new kingdom and city building rules, is there any chance we might be seeing an NPC chart like 3.5 had for how many of each class are in a city? Or at least what the highest level character in a city is? I don't imagine there are many 17th + level characters just laying around in a tiny hamlet.
No. We generally feel that chart caused more harm than good. Its heart was in the right place, but it overly quantified what can and can't be in a city. For Pathfinder, we've deliberately taken a step back from doing much at all with actual population figures—we give examples and certainly have our own internal guidelines for Golarion settlements, but we prefer to let the GMs make the call whether or not in their game what the spread of classes and levels are.
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The only reason I really ask is that my players want to hire a 17th level wizard to cast some spells for them and even in the 3.5 DMG the were no 17th level NPCs randomly found in any size town. I figure its a DM call but I was curious if we'd ever see some kinda chart to help flesh out cities easier.
17th level wizards should be rare and powerful(in political and/or social status) that casting a spell for someone should be to trivial for them, IMHO. If I had one to be bothered for a spell it would have to be important to even consider the quest, and even then you would have to get by his PR agent(person who makes sure he is not bothered for no reason), and he might send you on a quest.
Now if you meant hire on a full time basis, as opposed to just one spell the requirements for that would be interesting, and should involve more than just a monetary salary. I remember in Neverwinter Nights 2, close to the end of the game a powerful wizard would agree to join, if you had a wizard a wizard tower for him. Now I want to do that.
Rambling about to begin/continue:
I guess the tower could be paid for in BP, gold or both. He would increase the chance of a scroll/spell casting service being available for purchase by 10%, and major magic item would go up by 10% compared to the chart(Table 15–1: Available Magic Items in the core book). The d4's would increase by 1 for every city created.
PS: I would have him making occasional demands if you find you gave him to the players too cheaply, until you felt like the things leveled off or if they like the additional quests you could keep them coming. Using old adventures from 3.5 or paizo would help so you don't have to write your own.
Thanks James! I'll admit that the chart seems to cause more meta-gaming and stupidity than anything else, was just curious on the direction of Pathfinder. Keep up the great work!
Wrath: You think it would be a great side quest if the wizard had a Paladin King adventuring for the items he need to become a Lich? heheh Great ideas and thanks for sharing them.
Thanks James! I'll admit that the chart seems to cause more meta-gaming and stupidity than anything else, was just curious on the direction of Pathfinder. Keep up the great work!
Wrath: You think it would be a great side quest if the wizard had a Paladin King adventuring for the items he need to become a Lich? heheh Great ideas and thanks for sharing them.
It would, but if the players started to make knowledge arcana, or whatever knowledge is needed to try to figure things out....... I am sure some of the components would be vile in nature, and my group would start to ask questions. Now if they just do as they're told it might be a nice* surprise. :)
*evil
Has anyone done anything else to flesh out policy decisions or the effects thereof? I am wondering about how such a thing might encourage players who are approaching kingdom and settlement building with more of an eye towards specifics (what policies for land use they put in place, laws and military conscription policies etc.) and less towards abstracts (BP, generic effects from buildings etc. being things I would like to leave behind the curtain).
Like I said, still scoping through this and other threads to see if anyone has taken this tack, but I think just having a general rule of thumb in place for different types of policies giving different bonuses and negatives is something I will try and do. For example, players have the option to approach land use and development in different ways: un-managed expansion, impose some general rules to keep new immigrants from building certain things of their own accord or a very centralized and strict approach. A hands-off attitude towards development could lead to peasants and merchants becoming fairly entrepreneurial and may net a small gain in overall BP points at the cost of random buildings starting to pop up on the map and some of the kingdoms core BP being slightly infringed upon (manpower or resource drain), which can lead to all sorts of complications.
Not sure how far I'll pursue it, but just something I know I'll either end up doing, whether on the fly in an ad hoc basis or as something more formulaic I've yet to decide.
Has anyone done anything else to flesh out policy decisions or the effects thereof? I am wondering about how such a thing might encourage players who are approaching kingdom and settlement building with more of an eye towards specifics (what policies for land use they put in place, laws and military conscription policies etc.) and less towards abstracts (BP, generic effects from buildings etc. being things I would like to leave behind the curtain).
Like I said, still scoping through this and other threads to see if anyone has taken this tack, but I think just having a general rule of thumb in place for different types of policies giving different bonuses and negatives is something I will try and do. For example, players have the option to approach land use and development in different ways: un-managed expansion, impose some general rules to keep new immigrants from building certain things of their own accord or a very centralized and strict approach. A hands-off attitude towards development could lead to peasants and merchants becoming fairly entrepreneurial and may net a small gain in overall BP points at the cost of random buildings starting to pop up on the map and some of the kingdoms core BP being slightly infringed upon (manpower or resource drain), which can lead to all sorts of complications.
Not sure how far I'll pursue it, but just something I know I'll either end up doing, whether on the fly in an ad hoc basis or as something more formulaic I've yet to decide.
I think its generally something that is too specific for any kind of hard rule. Its the type of thing that is easily handled by individual groups but not by the populous as a whole. Good luck with it, but I recommend letting your players come up with the ideas and assigning costs/consequences/bonuses on the fly.
So I was bored with some of the kingdom events and made some new events, what do you all think?
Attempted Coup: Someone has attempted to take over your kingdom from within! Whether a general, a noble or the merchant’s guild, you must rally the people behind you or risk losing control. Make a Loyalty check, failure increases unrest by 2d6.
Wrath of the Erstial : Either though ignorance or purposeful action, your kingdom has offended the God of home and hearth. As nature turns against you your kingdom suffers a -2 penalty to all saves until the next kingdom event.
Bad Weather: A series of storms and horrid weather has put your citizens in a foul mood. You suffer a -4 penalty to all Loyalty checks until your next Event phase.
Generous gifts: A local noble or guild has seen the value of investing within your kingdom. Your kingdom receives a donation of 2d4 build points. (each time you roll a 4, reroll that die and add the result to the total)
Crime wave (continuous): Crime is sweeping though your kingdom out of control! Make a Stability check or increase Unrest by 3.
Revolt: A group of your citizens are unhappy and have risen against you, make a Loyalty check to avoid an enemy army rising up within your kingdom. (DM decision but will normally be an appropriately sized militia for your kingdom)
Innovation: Someone in your kingdom has come up with a better way of doing things. Whether controlling oozes in the sewers or garage eating monsters your kingdom is an exciting and better place to live. You gain a +4 bonus to all kingdom checks until your next kingdom event.
Grand Festival: It’s a party and everyone is invited. Grand performances, parades and massive dances puts the day to day out of mind for everyone. Gain 2d6 BP (each time you roll a 6, reroll that die and add the result to the total).
So I was bored with some of the kingdom events and made some new events, what do you all think?
Attempted Coup: Someone has attempted to take over your kingdom from within! Whether a general, a noble or the merchant’s guild, you must rally the people behind you or risk losing control. Make a Loyalty check, failure increases unrest by 2d6.
That 2d6 unrest is a bit much. One fail and you are half way to game over. At the most 1d6 or 2d4 would work.
Yeah, I made them for my home game and while the PCs can't have negative unrest, I do let extra houses and such apply to balance things out Though I figured only a 1-3% chance of that happening and it is a coup...but I suppose 2d4 would work for balance.
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Yeah, I made them for my home game and while the PCs can't have negative unrest, I do let extra houses and such apply to balance things out Though I figured only a 1-3% chance of that happening and it is a coup...but I suppose 2d4 would work for balance.
has any one built Banks? What would be the stats 2 Economy 2 Stability? Maybe 1 and 1 but the bonuses increase per 3 or something like that. What do you all think?
has any one built Banks? What would be the stats 2 Economy 2 Stability? Maybe 1 and 1 but the bonuses increase per 3 or something like that. What do you all think?
make it variable, with the chance of investments going up or down
1- Why are skills not used by leaders (it was asked on pg 5 but not answered)? (or Why don't skills make a leader better at his/her job?)
2- Why are ruins locked into 1/2 price for building X? Why couldn't you use the building as a Fortified library or monastery or such instead of a castle. Say, these ruins provide X BP if a city is built here.
3- How about "upgrade" rules? Say Shrine-temple-Cathedral?
The way I generally see it is that skills aren't used because a leader's job requires a lot of different things (handling people, knowing what's up, filling out orders properly). The job requires so _many_ skills that no one character (except a full-time Expert) could have them all, so we use the statistic as a general modifier since he's making most of those rolls untrained.
The important elements of leadership at this point are much more "what skill do I use" or "whom do I assign/trust to do the job" than "make a specific skill roll." Things like Con for the Marshall, for instance, reflect "can he really spend bundles of time riding all over the place and not drop dead of fatigue".
That said, if a player wanted to get ranks in an appropriate skill ("Profession: CEO") or something I'd probably let them get an occasional bonus. It depends on how much time/effort they want to put into specific governing jobs -- if the _player_ tries to roleplay everything out appropriately, then he maybe gets a skill roll to add a +1 or +2 bonus for that month. If he's just trying to do "I put X ranks in and let my character's stats autopilot me to re-election" then I'd be much less inclined to let that fly.
1- Why are skills not used by leaders (it was asked on pg 5 but not answered)? (or Why don't skills make a leader better at his/her job?)
2- Why are ruins locked into 1/2 price for building X? Why couldn't you use the building as a Fortified library or monastery or such instead of a castle. Say, these ruins provide X BP if a city is built here.
3- How about "upgrade" rules? Say Shrine-temple-Cathedral?
Skill checks weren't used because they can't assume players will pick up the relevant skills. I plan on letting my players use skill checks to improve good events or mitigate damage from negative ones. For instance, proffession politician (which my urban druid has) to reduce the negative effects of a scandal. Also, if the player want to spend time, successful roles can be used to do things like give re-rolls on a kingdom check. There are plenty of ways you can work it in to your group if your group wants it. It would be very difficult to unmarry it from the rules if it were in there though, and many groups do not like forcing people to take non-standard skills.
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1- Why are skills not used by leaders (it was asked on pg 5 but not answered)? (or Why don't skills make a leader better at his/her job?)
2- Why are ruins locked into 1/2 price for building X? Why couldn't you use the building as a Fortified library or monastery or such instead of a castle. Say, these ruins provide X BP if a city is built here.
3- How about "upgrade" rules? Say Shrine-temple-Cathedral?
1) As Caineach mentions above, but also because incorporating skills into the system would have made it even more complex and that was counter to my goal in creating the system in the first place. If we expand upon the kingdom building rules in a future product, though, incorporating skills into the whole would make sense.
2) Ruins are "locked" at 1/2 price for simplicity's sake. Creating a sliding scale of different costs makes things more complex and takes up more room. Again... something we can perhaps explore if we expand upon these rules in some future product, but beyond the scope of what the article needed to provide.
3) In an early incarnation of the rules, there were options to produce upgrades. Those rules were cut because they didn't add too much overall, increased complexity, and because there just wasn't room.
i might not be running the kingdom building right, so i ask at two years of buildign up is getting 130 bp a turn more then the system is ment to take. what was the system of kingdom building ment to handle during the test runs in terms of bp gained each turn.
Whats her name Calistria is a goddess that her temples are brothels :) Check out Second Darknes' House of the Silken Veil :)
Anyhow In setting up the town I was thinking of having a City Watch but staffing it with yonger members of the monks guild :) Immagine for every few Guardsmen ther is a Lawful Good Monk in the Ranks :) patrolling the City.
Their perception, stealth and combat skills would do very well to ferret out crime and also protect the city from invaders. This could be part of their training and they could rotate through as they go up in levels.
Also have a kings guard that is made up of fighter/rogues and rangers that are loyal to the crown and are to work within the kingdome and along its borders to insure its protection :) Something I got from Eberron - the Kings Lanterns.
i might not be running the kingdom building right, so i ask at two years of buildign up is getting 130 bp a turn more then the system is ment to take. what was the system of kingdom building ment to handle during the test runs in terms of bp gained each turn.
That definitely sounds like someone's missing something in the rules. Our group's kingdom is roughly 2 years in and we can make at most 27 BP per turn (and that requires a 16-20 Economy roll, a successful Stability check, and two successful moderate magic item selling checks).
i might not be running the kingdom building right, so i ask at two years of buildign up is getting 130 bp a turn more then the system is ment to take. what was the system of kingdom building ment to handle during the test runs in terms of bp gained each turn.That definitely sounds like someone's missing something in the rules. Our group's kingdom is roughly 2 years in and we can make at most 27 BP per turn (and that requires a 16-20 Economy roll, a successful Stability check, and two successful moderate magic item selling checks).
we are three years in and with economy of 60 or so? so they may generate 158 BP or so. with a sale on all med+maj magic items this may add another 50?
are you dividing the economy roll by 5??
He's talking about 130 BP per turn, not total.
i might not be running the kingdom building right, so i ask at two years of buildign up is getting 130 bp a turn more then the system is ment to take. what was the system of kingdom building ment to handle during the test runs in terms of bp gained each turn.That definitely sounds like someone's missing something in the rules. Our group's kingdom is roughly 2 years in and we can make at most 27 BP per turn (and that requires a 16-20 Economy roll, a successful Stability check, and two successful moderate magic item selling checks).
to give you a basic run down of how my group is getting that much, they are all casters and the first thing that they made was a casters tower and when ever they could they made another place that made magic items. as well as made more districts so they could sell the magic items that are being created by there city. so right now they have 13 city districts, 9 major, 16 med, 36 minor items. they even payed back the guys that gave them the 50 bp to start with and gave them 60 bp so that the players dont feel like they owe them anything. and yes they take the hit from consumption. they just dont care.