I need help building a character that rocks with a Rapier, the details are below.
Background:
"Chess", a well connected man from the swampy southern regions of our world. He has that southern hospitality thing going-on, he is charming and known for his elegant swordplay and good-natured bravado. The town he is from is small, and borders swamplands, his father was sheriff, and his father's father was sheriff/mayor. Chess grew-up under his father's wing (single-parent), as an only child. He spent many days at the local jail as a little boy doing menial tasks for the warden, while his father was out.
His father was killed on duty. Chess was inline for sheriff, but ran instead to the larger neighboring city (think New Orleans-like). As a young man, he got his first real lessons on the streets of that wild city, fraught with gambling, drinking, prostitution, and every-other vice. He somehow came to wield a rapier, and took it upon himself to protect the poor and weak he saw abused and defiled daily. Unable to fully escape his LG upbringing, and the lessons of his father and the warden, he never fell for the trappings of crime and vice (well, not too much).
He became known as the street sheriff, a perpetual do-gooder, well versed in the ways of crime, and yet friend to many within those circles. He knows how to play his cards, and knows what is right, and how to enforce it, regardless of the law. He may never return to that town, to that jail he grew-up in, but the lessons of his father and of that warden will never leave him, he will always do what he perceives is right and just. His unyielding vigor in battle, his quick footwork and ever-swooshing and piercing rapier, shall bring the mightiest of foes to their knees in apology, or alternatively, on their faces bleeding.
Build:
Now that we know who he is, we can better work on what he is.
Rest of party: Half-orc/Paladin, Elf/Ranger, Human/Wizard(enchanter).
Starting at 3rd level.
Rolled Stats: 15,14,14,13,12,11
Race: Teetering between Human/Half-elf.
Class: Fighter or rogue, or whatever fits my concept.
Concept: I envision a Rapier-savant, agile, mobile, impressive. He will probably throw daggers or darts (throwing-knifes) as back-up. This is a RP build, but of course, RP builds still have to be good at what they intended to do. Probably NG aligned, lightly armored, relying instead on his mobility and cunning; and of course, exceedingly handsome.
Further notes: The party would like someone with Disable-device, but the ranger is pretty stealthy, the wizard is knowledgey, and the paladin is diplomatic, so not sure about going all rogue. This is actually a GMNPC, in my campaign, but my players prefer if I play a full-on character, so he is long-term.
Thank you for your help in brainstorming. Any builds that fit my concept will be appreciated, I will be sure to post my final draft of Chess.
This guy looks familiar, from a recent thread no less. Hmmmm....
Split the fighter/rogue levels. Take enough rogue to keep your skills up and the rest fighter to get the HP, feats, and other fighter goodies. That should make you fairly deadly, especially as those Sneak Attack d6 mount up.
Your rogue levels should keep you adequately able to find and remove traps (anyone besides me miss the old FaRT roll from 1e?).
All of which is moot. You're the DM. There are few things more stupefying than watching the DMNPC searching for traps...
So, make someone else play the trapfinder (the ranger could do it quite well just just a level or two of rogue) and you turn your DMNPC into something else. You could still be the rapier-savant, but you might just drop rogue entirely.
I would go dual class Fighter/ Rogue. Feats to consider Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack Plus any and all dual wielding feats. I would then Start out with Rapier and Dagger. If you have your heart set on a high charisma make use of it with Bluff feats as well so that you can get your sneak of in rounds where you have no flank buddy. Other builds to consider would be to eliminate the dual wield and grab a buckler. In this case you could then consider point blank and precise for throwing the daggers. Either way works for an RP build, but the dual wield makes gets more bang for the buck on damage.
This guy looks familiar, from a recent thread no less. Hmmmm....
Split the fighter/rogue levels. Take enough rogue to keep your skills up and the rest fighter to get the HP, feats, and other fighter goodies. That should make you fairly deadly, especially as those Sneak Attack d6 mount up.
Your rogue levels should keep you adequately able to find and remove traps (anyone besides me miss the old FaRT roll from 1e?).
All of which is moot. You're the DM. There are few things more stupefying than watching the DMNPC searching for traps...
So, make someone else play the trapfinder (the ranger could do it quite well just just a level or two of rogue) and you turn your DMNPC into something else. You could still be the rapier-savant, but you might just drop rogue entirely.
Yeah, I mentioned in the other thread that I was starting a new one. I think straight fighter may be the way to go, but what feats would you suggest? (still pretty new to 3e/PF).
As a GMPC, searching for traps that I know are there would be...odd.
Is the Duelist worth it? I looked it over, and it seems a little weak for that level, but maybe I'm not seeing it right.
This guy looks familiar, from a recent thread no less. Hmmmm....
Split the fighter/rogue levels. Take enough rogue to keep your skills up and the rest fighter to get the HP, feats, and other fighter goodies. That should make you fairly deadly, especially as those Sneak Attack d6 mount up.
Your rogue levels should keep you adequately able to find and remove traps (anyone besides me miss the old FaRT roll from 1e?).
All of which is moot. You're the DM. There are few things more stupefying than watching the DMNPC searching for traps...
So, make someone else play the trapfinder (the ranger could do it quite well just just a level or two of rogue) and you turn your DMNPC into something else. You could still be the rapier-savant, but you might just drop rogue entirely.
Yeah, I mentioned in the other thread that I was starting a new one. I think straight fighter may be the way to go, but what feats would you suggest? (still pretty new to 3e/PF).
As a GMPC, searching for traps that I know are there would be...odd.
Is the Duelist worth it? I looked it over, and it seems a little weak for that level, but maybe I'm not seeing it right.
I dont think pure fighter is going to yeild enough skill points to make the guy you envision. If he is going to be mobile he needs to have points in acrobatics, hide, climb, etc...You dont have to splash Rogue, but you will at least need ranger or Bard then, and I think Rogue add more useful abilities for you.
I dont think pure fighter is going to yeild enough skill points to make the guy you envision. If he is going to be mobile he needs to have points in acrobatics, hide, climb, etc...You dont have to splash Rogue, but you will at least need ranger or Bard then, and I think Rogue add more useful abilities for you.This guy looks familiar, from a recent thread no less. Hmmmm....
Split the fighter/rogue levels. Take enough rogue to keep your skills up and the rest fighter to get the HP, feats, and other fighter goodies. That should make you fairly deadly, especially as those Sneak Attack d6 mount up.
Your rogue levels should keep you adequately able to find and remove traps (anyone besides me miss the old FaRT roll from 1e?).
All of which is moot. You're the DM. There are few things more stupefying than watching the DMNPC searching for traps...
So, make someone else play the trapfinder (the ranger could do it quite well just just a level or two of rogue) and you turn your DMNPC into something else. You could still be the rapier-savant, but you might just drop rogue entirely.
Yeah, I mentioned in the other thread that I was starting a new one. I think straight fighter may be the way to go, but what feats would you suggest? (still pretty new to 3e/PF).
As a GMPC, searching for traps that I know are there would be...odd.
Is the Duelist worth it? I looked it over, and it seems a little weak for that level, but maybe I'm not seeing it right.
So if I do a one level "dip" into Rogue, are those skills added to my list permanently? Or do I have to track level-by-level which class my ranks are from? I ask because one level of rogue would be just enough to get what I need, and not be too rogue-like.
So if I do a one level "dip" into Rogue, are those skills added to my list permanently? Or do I have to track level-by-level which class my ranks are from? I ask because one level of rogue would be just enough to get what I need, and not be too rogue-like.
No traking required. Just put your skill points each level where you want.
So if I do a one level "dip" into Rogue, are those skills added to my list permanently? Or do I have to track level-by-level which class my ranks are from? I ask because one level of rogue would be just enough to get what I need, and not be too rogue-like.
I will assume you know that you can put points into any skill, regardless of whether it's on your class list or not, which means you're really asking if you can get the +3 bonus on skills you gain from multi-classing, right?
Page 86, Acquiring Skills, second paragraph:
If you select a level in a new class, all of its class skills
are automatically added to your list of class skills, and you
gain a +3 bonus on these skills if you have ranks in them.
So yes, those are permanently added to your class skill list and you get the +3 bonus on the skills from all your classes. No special accounting required.
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Although, if you dip rogue once, you might want to consider staying for four levels. Finesse Rogue and Combat Trick will make up for the fighter feats, and you can use your Favored Class bonus for hit points. If you've got your heart set on Weapon Specialization, though, don't dip at all. Set a high intelligence, pick human , and use your favored class for skill points. Either way, you want Dodge, Combat Expertise, Mobility, Weapon Finesse, Two-Weapon Fighting, and maybe Two Weapon Defense.
The other option that you could do is burn your Human bonus feat on Skill focus (Disable Device) and it will work like it is a class skill, but at 10 ranks the bonus will jump up to +6!
This can keep you on track for all of your Weapon Training class abilities, if you want to look at it that way...
I think this is exactly what I am going to do, and if I have some free feats later-on, I can take skill focus for whatever I need. I'll go human, with 14 int, so 2+2+1(race)+1(favored), that's six skill ranks, not bad. The only skills I'll miss are Acro and UMD...on second thought, maybe just one level of rogue wouldn't hurt...I'll play with some builds tonight.
Barbarian 2/ Rogue 4/ Shadowdancer 4/ Duelist 10.
Lots of movement, some surprises, 3 bonus feats (2 from rogue tricks, one from shadowdancer trick), improved uncanny dodge, improved evasion, darkvision, 18 BAB and all the classes give at least 4 skill points a level.
You will have a feat overlap when you hit duelist 4 however (combat reflexes).
I would also recommend getting Nimble Moves, and Acrobatic step. Spring attack could work well for you too.
I think this is exactly what I am going to do, and if I have some free feats later-on, I can take skill focus for whatever I need. I'll go human, with 14 int, so 2+2+1(race)+1(favored), that's six skill ranks, not bad. The only skills I'll miss are Acro and UMD...on second thought, maybe just one level of rogue wouldn't hurt...I'll play with some builds tonight.The other option that you could do is burn your Human bonus feat on Skill focus (Disable Device) and it will work like it is a class skill, but at 10 ranks the bonus will jump up to +6!
This can keep you on track for all of your Weapon Training class abilities, if you want to look at it that way...
Don't forget that some traps cannot be disabled by anyone who is not a rogue. You could have a million points in Disable Device but you'll never disarm a magic trap unless you're a rogue.
Maybe those don't come up all that often.
"I memorized explosive runes today..."
Don't forget that simple active spells are not traps however. They are simply active spells. This would be things like the aforementioned explosive runes, glyphs, alarm, etc. Unless it is built as a trap it's and given detection measures and the like as mentioned in the trap section of the rules then it's simply a spell which could be dispelled.
Don't forget that simple active spells are not traps however. They are simply active spells. This would be things like the aforementioned explosive runes, glyphs, alarm, etc. Unless it is built as a trap it's and given detection measures and the like as mentioned in the trap section of the rules then it's simply a spell which could be dispelled.
Except, Explosive Runes actually is a trap:
Magic traps such as explosive runes are hard to detect and
disable. A character with the trapfinding class feature (only) can
use Disable Device to thwart explosive runes. The DC to find magic
traps using Perception and to disable them is 25 + spell level, or 28
for explosive runes.
Don't forget that simple active spells are not traps however. They are simply active spells. This would be things like the aforementioned explosive runes, glyphs, alarm, etc. Unless it is built as a trap it's and given detection measures and the like as mentioned in the trap section of the rules then it's simply a spell which could be dispelled.Except, Explosive Runes actually is a trap:
Magic traps such as explosive runes are hard to detect and
disable. A character with the trapfinding class feature (only) can
use Disable Device to thwart explosive runes. The DC to find magic
traps using Perception and to disable them is 25 + spell level, or 28
for explosive runes.
Very true, however explosive runes has a specific byline in it that allows it to be dispelled still (or even erased per that spell) too.
A small thought on what that part says too -- it specifies that only a character with the trapfinding ability can use disable device to thwart the runes... but it doesn't say only they can find them -- and they can still be thwarted by other means (see the dispel magic and erase part above).
Don't forget that simple active spells are not traps however. They are simply active spells. This would be things like the aforementioned explosive runes, glyphs, alarm, etc. Unless it is built as a trap it's and given detection measures and the like as mentioned in the trap section of the rules then it's simply a spell which could be dispelled.Except, Explosive Runes actually is a trap:
Magic traps such as explosive runes are hard to detect and
disable. A character with the trapfinding class feature (only) can
use Disable Device to thwart explosive runes. The DC to find magic
traps using Perception and to disable them is 25 + spell level, or 28
for explosive runes.Very true, however explosive runes has a specific byline in it that allows it to be dispelled still (or even erased per that spell) too.
A small thought on what that part says too -- it specifies that only a character with the trapfinding ability can use disable device to thwart the runes... but it doesn't say only they can find them -- and they can still be thwarted by other means (see the dispel magic and erase part above).
Look back at the quoted bit that I just now bolded: The DC to find magic traps using Perception .
The rulebook includes this info right in the Explosive Runes spell. Clearly, they would not do that if Perception cannot be used to find the Explosive Runes. Yes, Trapfinding is required.
And the fact that other means can remove Explosive Runes is hardly germaine to a discussion about rogues and their ability to deal with traps. You certainly don't need a rogue to cast Dispel Magic on Explosive Runes or any other spell.
Um no you need trapfinding to disable magical traps. It specifically states that, it never states you need trapfinding to find magical traps. Only to disarm them.
To wit:
"Pathfinder Core Rulebook, Explosive Runes, page 280 wrote:
Magic traps such as explosive runes are hard to detect and disable. A character with the trapfinding class feature (only) can use Disable Device to thwart explosive runes. The DC to find magic traps using Perception and to disable them is 25 + spell level, or 28 for explosive runes. "
All traps have a DC for perception to spot them. In fact if you check the traps and hazards area this same language is repeated verbatim there too.
It is also the same way it is presented in the rogue's ability:
"A rogue adds 1/2 her level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks (minimum +1). A rogue can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps. "
So to recap: Anyone can find magical traps. Only someone with the trapfinding class ability can disable magical traps with the disable device skill. Any thing else is not supported by the rules as currently written.