pusillanimous puker's page

Hey! This thread is still SSSPPPPPLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORGGGGGGGHHHH!

I can't tell for sure, but it makes me REALLY nauseous!

The other option that you could do is burn your Human bonus feat on Skill focus (Disable Device) and it will work like it is a class skill, but at 10 ranks the bonus will jump up to +6!

This can keep you on track for all of your Weapon Training class abilities, if you want to look at it that way...

I think this is exactly what I am going to do, and if I have some free feats later-on, I can take skill focus for whatever I need. I'll go human, with 14 int, so 2+2+1(race)+1(favored), that's six skill ranks, not bad. The only skills I'll miss are Acro and UMD...on second thought, maybe just one level of rogue wouldn't hurt...I'll play with some builds tonight.

pusillanimous puker wrote:

DM_Blake wrote:

This guy looks familiar, from a recent thread no less. Hmmmm....

Split the fighter/rogue levels. Take enough rogue to keep your skills up and the rest fighter to get the HP, feats, and other fighter goodies. That should make you fairly deadly, especially as those Sneak Attack d6 mount up.

Your rogue levels should keep you adequately able to find and remove traps (anyone besides me miss the old FaRT roll from 1e?).

All of which is moot. You're the DM. There are few things more stupefying than watching the DMNPC searching for traps...

So, make someone else play the trapfinder (the ranger could do it quite well just just a level or two of rogue) and you turn your DMNPC into something else. You could still be the rapier-savant, but you might just drop rogue entirely.

Yeah, I mentioned in the other thread that I was starting a new one. I think straight fighter may be the way to go, but what feats would you suggest? (still pretty new to 3e/PF).

As a GMPC, searching for traps that I know are there would be...odd.

Is the Duelist worth it? I looked it over, and it seems a little weak for that level, but maybe I'm not seeing it right.

I dont think pure fighter is going to yeild enough skill points to make the guy you envision. If he is going to be mobile he needs to have points in acrobatics, hide, climb, etc...You dont have to splash Rogue, but you will at least need ranger or Bard then, and I think Rogue add more useful abilities for you.

So if I do a one level "dip" into Rogue, are those skills added to my list permanently? Or do I have to track level-by-level which class my ranks are from? I ask because one level of rogue would be just enough to get what I need, and not be too rogue-like.

This guy looks familiar, from a recent thread no less. Hmmmm....

Split the fighter/rogue levels. Take enough rogue to keep your skills up and the rest fighter to get the HP, feats, and other fighter goodies. That should make you fairly deadly, especially as those Sneak Attack d6 mount up.

Your rogue levels should keep you adequately able to find and remove traps (anyone besides me miss the old FaRT roll from 1e?).

All of which is moot. You're the DM. There are few things more stupefying than watching the DMNPC searching for traps...

So, make someone else play the trapfinder (the ranger could do it quite well just just a level or two of rogue) and you turn your DMNPC into something else. You could still be the rapier-savant, but you might just drop rogue entirely.

Yeah, I mentioned in the other thread that I was starting a new one. I think straight fighter may be the way to go, but what feats would you suggest? (still pretty new to 3e/PF).

As a GMPC, searching for traps that I know are there would be...odd.

Is the Duelist worth it? I looked it over, and it seems a little weak for that level, but maybe I'm not seeing it right.

I need help building a character that rocks with a Rapier, the details are below.

Background:

"Chess", a well connected man from the swampy southern regions of our world. He has that southern hospitality thing going-on, he is charming and known for his elegant swordplay and good-natured bravado. The town he is from is small, and borders swamplands, his father was sheriff, and his father's father was sheriff/mayor. Chess grew-up under his father's wing (single-parent), as an only child. He spent many days at the local jail as a little boy doing menial tasks for the warden, while his father was out.

His father was killed on duty. Chess was inline for sheriff, but ran instead to the larger neighboring city (think New Orleans-like). As a young man, he got his first real lessons on the streets of that wild city, fraught with gambling, drinking, prostitution, and every-other vice. He somehow came to wield a rapier, and took it upon himself to protect the poor and weak he saw abused and defiled daily. Unable to fully escape his LG upbringing, and the lessons of his father and the warden, he never fell for the trappings of crime and vice (well, not too much).

He became known as the street sheriff, a perpetual do-gooder, well versed in the ways of crime, and yet friend to many within those circles. He knows how to play his cards, and knows what is right, and how to enforce it, regardless of the law. He may never return to that town, to that jail he grew-up in, but the lessons of his father and of that warden will never leave him, he will always do what he perceives is right and just. His unyielding vigor in battle, his quick footwork and ever-swooshing and piercing rapier, shall bring the mightiest of foes to their knees in apology, or alternatively, on their faces bleeding.

Build:

Now that we know who he is, we can better work on what he is.

Rest of party: Half-orc/Paladin, Elf/Ranger, Human/Wizard(enchanter).

Starting at 3rd level.

Rolled Stats: 15,14,14,13,12,11

Race: Teetering between Human/Half-elf.

Class: Fighter or rogue, or whatever fits my concept.

Concept: I envision a Rapier-savant, agile, mobile, impressive. He will probably throw daggers or darts (throwing-knifes) as back-up. This is a RP build, but of course, RP builds still have to be good at what they intended to do. Probably NG aligned, lightly armored, relying instead on his mobility and cunning; and of course, exceedingly handsome.

Further notes: The party would like someone with Disable-device, but the ranger is pretty stealthy, the wizard is knowledgey, and the paladin is diplomatic, so not sure about going all rogue. This is actually a GMNPC, in my campaign, but my players prefer if I play a full-on character, so he is long-term.

Thank you for your help in brainstorming. Any builds that fit my concept will be appreciated, I will be sure to post my final draft of Chess.

Well, since my character idea has evolved to be very different than when I originally started this thread, I will start a new one, seeking comments on my final build. I'll title it: "Help with character idea".

-thanks

I like the knife fighter rogue idea.

I also like the idea of both ranged and melee with the same weapon.

I am imagining a PC with daggers who uses them effectively in both ranged combat and melee...

Kind of like throwing knives,
he juggles them
takes the three in the air stabs two throws the third one and still has three in the air the whole time......

I think a throwing knife and a dagger are two different things and stats for throwing knives should be a little different.....

maybe an increased range incriment say 30 for SA purposes
Weapon finnessable applies to melee and throwing....

Yeah, I liked it too, but I'm canning it for later...maybe an NPC for future campaigns.

Thanks for all the feedback, you guys are awesome.

My idea of my character has evolved from the knife-fighter, to the hand-crossbow, and now to something else. I think I've got my concept down finally, here is a summary of my background:

"Chess", a well connected man from the swampy southern regions of our world. He has that southern hospitality thing going-on, he is charming and known for his elegant swordplay and good-natured bravado. The town he is from is small, and borders swamplands, his father was sheriff, and his father's father was sheriff/mayor. Chess grew-up under his father's wing (single-parent), as an only child. He spent many days at the local jail as a little boy doing menial tasks for the warden, while his father was out.

His father was killed on duty. Chess was inline for sheriff, but ran instead to the larger neighboring city (think New Orleans-like). As a young man, he got his first real lessons on the streets of that wild city, fraught with gambling, drinking, prostitution, and every-other vice. He somehow came to wield a rapier, and took it upon himself to protect the poor and weak he saw abused and defiled daily. Unable to fully escape his LG upbringing, and the lessons of his father and the warden, he never fell for the trappings of crime and vice (well, not too much).

He became known as the street sheriff, a perpetual do-gooder, well versed in the ways of crime, and yet friend to many within those circles. He knows how to play his cards, and knows what is right, and how to enforce it, regardless of the law. He may never return to that town, to that jail he grew-up in, but the lessons of his father and of that warden will never leave him, he will always do what he perceives is right and just. His unyielding vigor in battle, his quick footwork and ever-swooshing and piercing rapier, shall bring the mightiest of foes to their knees in apology, or alternatively, on their faces bleeding.

Build:

Now that I know who he is, I can better work on what he is.

Rolled Stats: 15,14,14,13,12,11

Race: Teetering between Human/Half-elf.

Class: Fighter or rogue, or whatever fits my concept.

Concept: I envision a Rapier-savant, agile, mobile, impressive. He will probably throw daggers or darts (throwing-knifes) as back-up. This is a RP build, but of course, RP builds have to be best at what they do. I am no longer so set on class or race. Probably NG aligned, lightly armored, relying instead on his mobility and cunning; and of course, exceedingly handsome.

Further notes: The only reason, really, I was originally going Rogue, was for Disable Device. We have all knowledges covered, Diplomacy and such also. I am not afraid to make a skilled fighter if necessary.

Thank you for your help in brainstorming. Any builds that fit my concept will be appreciated, I will be sure to post my final draft of Chess.

*Edit: (more info)

Starting at level 3. And, I probably should have mention this earlier, I am the DM, but my players prefer if I play a full-fledged, long-term PC DMPC, so the background is important to me. Also, the Paladin in the group is the diplomat, the ranger can be the sneak, and the wizard is the knowledge-monkey.

pusillanimous puker wrote:

So, I decided to ditch the knife fighting rogue...

Going for Rapier and Hand-crossbow instead, same stats, but with these feats:

Rapid reload, point-blank shot, finesse(talent), skill focus/UMD(racial)

Next talent(lvl4): (combat trick)Rapid shot

If you're going to be doing hand-crossbow/rapier combo it would be wise to not focus on the ranged aspect. If you load the hand-crossbow when you enter a dangerous situation (say... the entrance to a dungeon) then you'll get your shot in on round one, and by round two you should be able to flank with the ranger or paladin for sneak attack with your rapier (which is a better weapon anyway due to the crit range). Fighting this way will never require you to reload your weapon in combat, nor to spend part of a move action to draw your rapier (due to reloading the crossbow with two hands).

As for feats, I'd focus on standard combat rogue feats. You may not want the TWF tree based on your fighting style (though it would still be good for rounds 3 onward), so instead go with a duelist path (combat expertise, toughness, possibly even improved feint, etc.).

I like your ideas, in order to go into the combat expertise tree, I would have bump-up intelligence. I'll consider.

So, I decided to ditch the knife fighting rogue...

Going for Rapier and Hand-crossbow instead, same stats, but with these feats:

Rapid reload, point-blank shot, finesse(talent), skill focus/UMD(racial)

Next talent(lvl4): (combat trick)Rapid shot

Not sure about feats after that.

Any suggestions on this build would be appreciated, I still have time to make adjustments/finalize my character.

Good work getting Finesse as a talent, you want to save your feats for the TWF chain. I'd stay away from the ranged attack chain tho, you'll only be able to sneak attack when they're flat-footed or you're invisible, and even then, not often enough.

Blink's been nerfed, so consequently so has ranged sneak attack. You can still throw your knives while they're flat-footed, the longer you stay away from melee, while dealing SA the better, but i wouldn't bother investing feats in it.

Use your favoured class to up your hp if you're gonna be in melee much, and amp up your ac with dodge etc. It's good that you've got UMD, grab a wand of mirror image, and maybe displacement if you can afford it, it will save your bacon.

Also, a wand of cure light for personal use won't go astray.

I thought about dipping into fighter, but that only grants one extra feat at most. I'd love to throw some knives, but with 10' increment and TWF eating-up feats, I don't know if it's a worthy focus. Just trying to build something fun.

I want to create a rogue that fights well with knives and I would like help with the build.

The other party members are, a Half-Orc Paladin (falchion/healer), an Elven Ranger (curve-blade/archery path), and a Human Wizard (enchanter).

He's going to be a Half-elf, starting at third level. My rolled stats are: 15,14,14,13,12,11.

I was thinking of TWF, throwing daggers and having high UMD:

str-12
dex-17 (+2race)
con-14
int-11
wis-13
cha-14

Feats: TWF, Finesse(talent),skill focus/UMD(race), +?
[this is just a start, open to alternatives]

Core only, and thanks in advance!

I don't think adding the chance of hitting an ally while shooting into melee is a good idea, but a chance to hit soft cover is. Whatever the soft cover is, between you and your target, you could say that on a natural 1, roll to hit it. Or, if you miss the original target's AC, apply that same roll to the soft-cover target, sorcerer beware of my arrow. Something along those lines, as simple as possible.

It seems right to me too, especially when you remember that barbarians use to be illiterate in 3.5. Barbarians in business suits will have to take skill focus for that new job.

Well, the enemy gets +4AC from soft cover.

Soft Cover: Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Stealth check.

You do not hit your companion on a miss, I don't think that was a rule in 3.5 either. It's a good house-rule, but I would only do it on natural 1's.

So, assuming that the companion was adjacent to the target, and in-between
you and the target, then yes the target gets +4AC, and you would take -4 attack if you do not have precise-shot, so -8 total. Since you have that lovely precise-shot, your target simply gets +4AC.

Hope that helps.

Edit:Here's a link to the combat section of the prd, you'll have to scroll about 3/4 of the way down for cover rules

Well, I proposed this upstream, and am now reiterating with some adjustments:

To sneak attack a construct (or undead, if you like) , a rogue must make an intelligence check to define a weak spot. The DCs scale with the enemies HD.

There are two ways to do handle, either for each sneak attack (DC5+HD), or once per foe (DC10+HD). These are free actions.

Or, alternatively:

To sneak attack a construct a rogue must succeed on the proper knowledge check, DCs could stay the same, or raise them by five to help account for the class skill bonus.

To me, this is simple and sweet, the second version rewards putting points in knowledge skills (which is always a good thing), the first is just as flavorful.

Just to add... If you wanted to limit the number of SA dice, you could set it at one, then +1 dice per 5 that you beat the DC, up to the maximum allowed by the class... still simple and sweet.

I prefer the straight knowledge/intelligence check vs. the "ranks limit". Limiting the dice to ranks in a skill, to me, feels less "natural".

Well, I proposed this upstream, and am now reiterating with some adjustments:

To sneak attack a construct (or undead, if you like) , a rogue must make an intelligence check to define a weak spot. The DCs scale with the enemies HD.

There are two ways to do handle, either for each sneak attack (DC5+HD), or once per foe (DC10+HD). These are free actions.

Or, alternatively:

To sneak attack a construct a rogue must succeed on the proper knowledge check, DCs could stay the same, or raise them by five to help account for the class skill bonus.

To me, this is simple and sweet, the second version rewards putting points in knowledge skills (which is always a good thing), the first is just as flavorful.

Free action. It can already (especially with clerics) feel like you never have enough actions in a round when you wield and cast, like with a shield. If a sorcerer holds a two-handed weapon, and it takes a move-action to free a hand to cast and an enemy is adjacent, you are stuck like chuck.

I also let my PCs attack with weapons in either hand without TWF penalties, unless they attack with both in a round.

1) All sneak attacks against constructs roll D4 instead of D6. If a critical is rolled, D6's are rolled as normal for any other creature.

This one would be simplest to implement, but remember that sneak attack is not multiplied on a critical.

Maybe require an intelligence check with a DC that scales with HD as a standard or move action to find the weak spot, and allow sneakage?

Examples:
DC10+HD, you study the construct as a standard action, locating its weak-spot, and are now able to sneak attack it as normal.

DC5+HD, as a free-action, as you make an attack with which you would deal sneak attack against a normal target, you can against the construct.

*Edit: Intelligence in place of knowledge.

Never was a big believer in dice gods, but after 6 sessions each averaging bout 5-6 hours, I have a player who has the WORST dice luck I've ever seen. I estimate 85% of his dice rolls are 5 or lower, its the oddest thing Ive ever seen. I feel terrible for the guy, as its one thing to roll bad, its another thing to ALWAYS roll bad.

Does he roll bad with any d20? My little brother is like that, and he tends to get discouraged, and it snowballs into more bad dice rolls, then more negativity... his rolls suck!

Really does spoil some of the fun when you have to cheer-up a bad roller all the time.

It's weird when I pick-up his dice, and can't roll under 15 for the life of me.

meat

LilithsThrall wrote:

Now, I still say "I don't like 4e" because I don't like 4e. But when the 4e thought police can't help themselves, I've decided to no longer get upset.

It's funny.

Here's to not liking 4E. We've got some things we can agree on at least.

It's OK to not like something, it's OK to tell someone that, I do it all the time! It's not OK to attack someone for this.

LilithsThrall wrote:

Cartigan wrote:

LilithsThrall wrote:

Cartigan wrote:

You are blasting 4E because.. you don't like it?

Would you rather I blast 4e because I like it? Or that I say nice things about it because I don't like it?

Neither of those make sense.

One would presume you had reasons.

Not liking it seems like a very good reason to blast it.

So you dislike it for no reason. That's what I thought.

Being so overly defensive is like reverse trolling. Picking-out a minor comment that could have just been ignored is fueling a fire (or at least sparking one). Such exaggerated sensitivity to one's opinion will only start a fight. What do you have to be so defensive about?

Who cares why someone dislikes something that you apparently like? Does 4e need such PR championing and defense lawyers?

Who cares?