I just drew up a wizard for a friends game (my druid died) and I want to pay a cleric to use raise dead on the druid and in exchange I want him to teach me his druidic language (I have his dead animal companion as well, for a bargaining chip). So after a long discussion with my friends about the drastic steps druids will take against people for learning their language my question is...
What would a druid/conclave do in this situation and what are some examples of the steps druids will take to prevent the language from being taught or what to do if someone learns it?
You're extorting your own character to lose all his class abilities (including his Animal Companion)... wowza.
As an NPC, he'd probably teach it to you, go get an atonement, and bring down a druidic stampede on your head. Your wizard *is* evil aligned yes?
You've got his animal companion as a "bargaining chip"? So what? He can just call for another one. Besides, death is a part of life, i.e. a part of nature. He'd just (have to) accept that his companion is not available anymore and deal with it.
As for what the local druids would do to prevent anyone from learning their language...
You should be lucky if it's just a baleful polymorph spell turning you into a little dog and the conclave holding your familiar as an additional bargaining chip. ;-)
After all, there's neutral evil druids around out there. For those folks, the answer is simple: Dead men tell no stories. Period.
He's dead. He's a druid. Dying is a natural thing. He won't come back, anyway. And if he did, he will probably consider his oaths more important than an animal companion - which he doesn't want raised, either, because it's dead and returning from the dead is unnatural.
As for the original question: They will take any and all steps the GM deems necessary. If I were that GM, they'd probably call in a couple of druids that are several levels above you to come and protect their secrets.
The druid is dead.
You can't bargain with him. You drew up a new PC. The DM now controls the old one.
You can pay to have him resurrected if you want, but you shouldn't be able to then use two PC's to accomplish your goals. Death is not a benefit.
Furthermore- if you do this, go ahead and roll up a new character. If I was the DM and a PC insisted on doing this, his life span would be measured in very brief moments. About as long as it would take for the druid to go and report to his conclave that you were attempting to extort him for the druidic language.
Some things are not amusing. Extorting Druid's animal companions lives in attempts to learn their language- whether successful in that attempt or not- is a pretty sure way to end up 6 feet under.
-S
The druid is dead.
You can't bargain with him. You drew up a new PC. The DM now controls the old one.
You can pay to have him resurrected if you want, but you shouldn't be able to then use two PC's to accomplish your goals. Death is not a benefit.
Furthermore- if you do this, go ahead and roll up a new character. If I was the DM and a PC insisted on doing this, his life span would be measured in very brief moments. About as long as it would take for the druid to go and report to his conclave that you were attempting to extort him for the druidic language.
Some things are not amusing. Extorting Druid's animal companions lives in attempts to learn their language- whether successful in that attempt or not- is a pretty sure way to end up 6 feet under.
-S
Shall we stat up a NE druid + assassin pair that will be working as the circle's enforcerers for them.....
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What would a druid/conclave do in this situation and what are some examples of the steps druids will take to prevent the language from being taught or what to do if someone learns it?
Great lengths, and very bad things.
Ask yourself this, to what lengths would the CIA go in reaction to someone learning the code key for one of their most closely held encryptions?
Now pretend they can control the weather.
What would a druid/conclave do in this situation and what are some examples of the steps druids will take to prevent the language from being taught or what to do if someone learns it?
Great lengths, and very bad things.
Ask yourself this, to what lengths would the CIA go in reaction to someone learning the code key for one of their most closely held encryptions?
Now pretend they can control the weather.
Pretend nothing, they do control the weather.....
Grabs tinfoil hat.
Oh man! Now you've done it!
Nobody stand near Charender!!! It's going to be bad!!!
What would a druid/conclave do in this situation and what are some examples of the steps druids will take to prevent the language from being taught or what to do if someone learns it?
Great lengths, and very bad things.
Ask yourself this, to what lengths would the CIA go in reaction to someone learning the code key for one of their most closely held encryptions?
Now pretend they can control the weather.
you win 2 internet points. Seriously that made my day.
To the OP, lets just say this, if you approached it from a friendly perspective, "i wanna learn about druidic culture, blah blah" as dm the druid would politely refuse and try to offer something else in return for the favor. If you tried to force him to tell you 'tell me what i want to know or fluffy gets soul bound', you could expect nature itself to turn against you REAL quick. Stay away from things that are green for the remainder of the campaign and you MIGHT live, but seriously, you are trying to steal the secrets of an organization that is not just powerful, but not explicately good on the alignment scale. This is not a good idea.
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The short answer is (as others have said) it is up to the DM.
Sometimes I wish my players were crazy enough to try this kind of thing. A single character bringing down the wrath of a Druid circle would be fun to DM.
So here's how I see it happening...
You have the Druid raised.
You attempt to extort the Druid.
The Druid changes into a Dire Bear and eats your Wizard's face off.
Roll up your third character since the Druid is a NPC and the Wizard is digesting.
Now, assuming (before said face-munching) you have managed to successfully cage the Druid in a manner that prevents him from taking any form that would allow him to escape or eviscerate you AND further assuming he values his animal companion more than his sacred oaths... he starts to teach you Druidic. Of course, since he prays for spells and you aren't going to learn the language in one day... we can assume he will get the spells he needs to kill you or escape before you've learned a smattering of words.
So, let's further assume you have caged him in an anti-magic shell to prevent his spellcasting. Gravy. NOW... he teaches you Druidic.
Or rather, he teaches you something that sounds like Druidic but isn't... so that any Druid you chat up will know you aren't a Druid. The benefit here is that if the faux-Druidic is close enough to the true language, the Druid you are talking with will KNOW that you had access to their secret language to some extent. He'll probably report back to his superiors instead of risking taking you on himself - because the loss of the secret is too important for the information to not get back to the circle.
Then they grab your Wizard, wring a confession about how you learned what little Druidic you know, and then you die by inches, screaming.
Beyond al the deliciously nasty things everyone else has mentioned that the Druids might... er... WILL do to you, I have what may be a stupid question:
If it's so all-fired important for your character to speak druidic, why not dip into a level of Druid?
Beyond al the deliciously nasty things everyone else has mentioned that the Druids might... er... WILL do to you, I have what may be a stupid question:
If it's so all-fired important for your character to speak druidic, why not dip into a level of Druid?
Hmm... depending on how much his character has actively roleplayed his intentions, I'm not sure I'd even allow him to take a level in druid without some serious roleplaying and bluffing to convince a teacher that his ideals fit the druidic role.
I know gaining levels in classes has been abstracted in recent additions and you don't have to seek out trainers and the like, but in this case how's he learning the secret language?
Beyond al the deliciously nasty things everyone else has mentioned that the Druids might... er... WILL do to you, I have what may be a stupid question:
If it's so all-fired important for your character to speak druidic, why not dip into a level of Druid?
Hmm... depending on how much his character has actively roleplayed his intentions, I'm not sure I'd even allow him to take a level in druid without some serious roleplaying and bluffing to convince a teacher that his ideals fit the druidic role.
I know gaining levels in classes has been abstracted in recent additions and you don't have to seek out trainers and the like, but in this case how's he learning the secret language?
If the character showed legitimate interest in learning the druidic ways, and was willing to take a level in the class, i'd probably be willing to chalk it up to divine influence, nature herself taught him the language.
If the character showed legitimate interest in learning the druidic ways, and was willing to take a level in the class, i'd probably be willing to chalk it up to divine influence, nature herself taught him the language.
That's what I was talking about. If he's already done some roleplay expressing his desire to learn the language using the methods described, good luck convincing some divine influence of your "good intentions".
Guys, please - he can learn druidic easily. He just has to take a level in Druid. Period. That's the price, and they cannot teach it any other way. On the plus side, you're on the road to being an arcane hierophant!
More seriously, you want this guy to break all of his sacred oaths? yeah, right.
That's what I was talking about. If he's already done some roleplay expressing his desire to learn the language using the methods described, good luck convincing some divine influence of your "good intentions".
If the character showed legitimate interest in learning the druidic ways, and was willing to take a level in the class, i'd probably be willing to chalk it up to divine influence, nature herself taught him the language.
Not to mention, if you choose to RP the encounter, I'm sure there is an interview with the wizard under an openly cast Zone of Truth. A sincere candidate would choose to auto-fail the save. But our crafty Druids, having seen pretenders come before, will assume he could make that save and will back it up with Discern Lie cast on the interviewers without the wizard knowing it... just to make sure.
I am thinking there was a group (other than druids) who knew the druids "secret" language.
Perchance it was the assassin in 1.0....
I wish for an online srd for 1.0 & 2.0
Yep, the 1.0 Assassin was allowed to learn Druidic since they were infiltration experts. Not sure if that rule made it to 2E.
OK strictly speaking 3.5 here not PF.
If he teaches you druidic he loses everything. All spell casting, shape change, everything that makes him a druid.
In the current campaign I am in if a druid did this the major powers of nature would ALL turn from him, no atonement possible unless he was dominated or something like that.
What your asking him to do would be the equivalent of asking a paladin to storm into a town of 500 folks sell the men into slavery and have his way with the women or vice versa depending on the paladin's preference. Then have the gall to go to a temple and say "hey guys I'm really sorry and kindda dehydrated so can I have an atonement and get back into the club?"
As for the previous post about lormaster being able to learn it I could've sworn that all "bonus" languages were under the same "except secret languages" restriction.
In MY Opinion I think the real reason for the druidic language is to make sure that all druids can 100% identify one another.
The underdark druid vs a aquatic druid may not be able to understand one another in any other way but with druidic they know they follow the same tradition as opposed to a priest of tiamat that took the fire and earth domains to have power over the elements, or a cleric of the elemental lords.
The big question I have is WHY? Why would a wizard want to know the secret language of an organization that is divinely protected and has incredible power to draw upon in order to exact a terrible vengeance?
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I see no reason why you couldn't learn Druidic. Simply force a guy to teach you the language (torture him long enough and he WILL teach it to you) and then kill him afterwords (depending on the torture, he might even thank you for death), and nobody will know enough of the situation to hunt you down.
It's not like you are going to walk through the woods singing in Druidic. Odds are you learned it to get an edge over druids (as they talk code in front of you not realizing you know what they are saying) or as part of scholastic perfectionism (in which case you likely won't even use it much).
If you are smart enough to learn a forbidden language, you are also smart enough to keep an army of druids from coming down on your head. All this talk about druidic revenge is simple hogwash--unless you do something stupid and screw up, allowing the tortured druid to escape, or having his body be found, for example.
Beyond al the deliciously nasty things everyone else has mentioned that the Druids might... er... WILL do to you, I have what may be a stupid question:
If it's so all-fired important for your character to speak druidic, why not dip into a level of Druid?
Hmm... depending on how much his character has actively roleplayed his intentions, I'm not sure I'd even allow him to take a level in druid without some serious roleplaying and bluffing to convince a teacher that his ideals fit the druidic role.
I know gaining levels in classes has been abstracted in recent additions and you don't have to seek out trainers and the like, but in this case how's he learning the secret language?
Well, yeah, if the character's already made attempts/shown a predisposiiton to do this sorta thing, sure. I was under the assumption the question was still hypothetical at this point.
Well, yeah, if the character's already made attempts/shown a predisposiiton to do this sorta thing, sure. I was under the assumption the question was still hypothetical at this point.Beyond al the deliciously nasty things everyone else has mentioned that the Druids might... er... WILL do to you, I have what may be a stupid question:
If it's so all-fired important for your character to speak druidic, why not dip into a level of Druid?
Hmm... depending on how much his character has actively roleplayed his intentions, I'm not sure I'd even allow him to take a level in druid without some serious roleplaying and bluffing to convince a teacher that his ideals fit the druidic role.
I know gaining levels in classes has been abstracted in recent additions and you don't have to seek out trainers and the like, but in this case how's he learning the secret language?
How will the rest of the party react to this wizard extorting and/ or torturing their former comerade.
If this was the group I'm GMing right now, the wizard wouldn;t have to worry about avenging druids...he'd have to survive the other players...
Guys, please - he can learn druidic easily. He just has to take a level in Druid. Period. That's the price, and they cannot teach it any other way. On the plus side, you're on the road to being an arcane hierophant!
More seriously, you want this guy to break all of his sacred oaths? yeah, right.
This.
Learning Druidic has more to it than conjugating verbs, you have to Think in Druidic, and once you do that *poof* Druid.
At least that’s how I would run it.
Also, the Linguistics skill is ambiguously written enough that you might be able to convince your DM to just put a few points in that.
Learn a Language: Whenever you put a rank into this skill, you learn to speak and read a new language. Common languages (and their typical speakers) include the following.
...
Druidic
...
It doesn't say that each point has to be trained. But it does say that you get a new language for every point you put into it.
Linguistics is "Trained Only" but so are all Knowledge skills.
Just as an example:
I roll up a level 1 Wizard with Linguistics and Knowledge Planes each with 1 point in them. For my 1 point in Linguistics, I pick Gnome as my shiny new language. At level 2, I put one more point in each, and pick Druidic as my language.
As a starting character it is usually assumed that you learned any ranks you have in your in-class skills as part of your training to become level 1. I've never heard of a DM that won't allow you to put new skill points in a skill after you've trained your initial 1 point.
I know its a gray area and stretching into rule lawyer bounds but its yet another case of Paizo not having very precise language on what they mean.
Can I learn the mafia's secrets without being in the mafia too? I'll just force Sid the Squid to tell me what he knows and no one will ever find out! You think if that was in an RPG the GM wouldn't have the mafia find out? Of course he would. The same applies to "da nature family" in D&D/PF. You learn Druidic or Thieves' Cant and you're not a Druid or a Thief and you're as good as dead. That's how it always was and that's how it will probably always be.
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stuff about linguistics skill...
[Devil's Advocate]
Zerothbase has a point.
The real world has plenty of examples of supposedly secret languages that were learned by people who were not taught the language. Archaeologists were able to crack ancient Egyptian, Mayan, and dozens of other dead languages that NOBODY spoke. I would think a living language would be easier to learn than a dead one, even if it was a language that nobody was willing to teach you. A living language (especially one spoken world-wide) is far more common than a dead language.
Languages have rules for spelling and grammar, and therefore those rules can be cracked. During WWII the German military code was cracked, and cracked again (and again) every time they changed the code. Ditto for the Japanese diplomatic code. It the time, these codes were living SECRET LANGUAGES.
It's extremely difficult to keep a widely used language secret forever. Especially when a fantasy character can cast tongues or comprehend languages to help him decipher the rules of spelling, grammar, and pronunciation.
Also, if you hear a language spoken long enough, you start to learn words, then phrases, and eventually sentences in that language. Example: infants.
[/Devil's Advocate]
That said, as a DM, I wouldn't allow you to learn Druidic by your suggested method. No way, no how. At best, I would require you to collect books/scrolls/documents written in Druidic, THEN make several successful (and difficult) linguistics checks over the course of a level or two to decode the language structure. All that would be to just to read Druidic.
THEN, after learning written Druidic, you would have to hang out with people speaking Druidic for at least another level before making several more successful linguistics checks. Only after all that could I allow you to write Druidic on your sheet.
After all that, if you didn't also take a level in druid, you had better keep your knowledge a secret, or bad things will be looking for you.
Yep, the 1.0 Assassin was allowed to learn Druidic since they were infiltration experts.
And alignment languages!
In my Ice Age campaign anyone could learn the druidic language since examples of it could be translated from runestones or it could be garnered from druids tortured for the information. However, anyone using the druidic language who wasn't a druid was afflicted with a magical curse that would slowly transform them into a tree or animal (they would get a Will save every time they spoke or wrote in druidic). It was a pretty harsh penalty, but was used more as a campaign device that as an actual punishment for players.
Perhaps druidic is partially magical in nature, and that's why it can't be learn't by non-druids?
I also miss Thieves Cant. I know it still exists in a diluted form, but I miss the fact that it was a unique language that every thief/rogue could speak.