Mod, please feel free to move this to the correct thread.
So, for some monstrous PC races (Svirfneblin, Duerger, and Drow) obviously need to begin with a class. But for the rest (Morlock, Bugbear, Boggard, etc.) are you supposed to begin with a class level or just with racial HD and abilities?
and, following a similar line of thinking, should Kobolds and Mites begin with a one level advantage? (a 5th level kobold in a 4th level party, for example)
Thanks for the help
Monsters with racial hit dice keep those hit dice when they start play.
You cannot play a monster in a party whose average level is less than your monster's listed CR.
For example, if you want to play an ogre, the party best be 4th-level or higher. If they ARE 4th-level, then you start with no class levels (just your racial hit dice. If they are higher than 4th, you also gain a number of class levels.
Since racial hit dice aren't considered as powerful as class levels, monster characters gain class levels faster than normal PCs to make up for the slack, but only for a limited time.
In general, for every two class levels the normal PCs gain, monster PCs gain 3 class levels. They only get these "bonus leap levels" (BLL) a number of times equal to half their CR (rounded down).
For example, your ogre's progression would look something like this compared to your party mates' progression:
HD/Class - Party's Class Levels
04/0 - 03
04/1 - 04
04/2 - 05
04/4 - 06
04/5 - 07
04/6 - 08
04/7 - 09
04/8 - 10
04/9 - 11
4/10 - 12
4/11 - 13
4/12 - 14
4/13 - 15
4/14 - 16
4/15 - 17
4/16 - 18
4/17 - 19
4/18 - 20
It is also worth noting that you get just as much customization with racial HD as you do with class levels. You get to choose where your skill ranks are allocated (but keep in mind your race has its own class skill list as shown in the Bestiary), which feats you get, and may determine your ability scores as per normal for your playing group (racial modifiers, if not listed explicitly, are determined by subtracting 10 from even scores and 11 from odd scores). You get starting funds appropriate for a character whose level is equal to that of your effective level (generally equal to your party's average level). Your hit points are maxed out for your first racial hit die and you roll for the rest (note that your first class level is NOT maxed out just as if you were multiclassing between two classes).
To my knowledge, you cannot choose your race or creature type as a favored class.
ok thanks... so then a morlock rogue in a party of 6th level characters would have 5 class levels?
ok thanks... so then a morlock rogue in a party of 6th level characters would have 5 class levels?
A morlock could join play as early as 2nd level (with no class levels) and by the time the party got to 6th-level, the morlock would have 3 racial hit dice and 6 class levels. After that, he gains one level for every level his party gains, as normal.
EDIT: I miscounted. You're right. It's 3/5. Check with your GM as he may want to change those numbers for perceived balance issues.
Your morlock would forever be 1 class level behind the rest of the party, but would have 3 racial hit dice (monstrous humanoid "levels" to be precise) to make up for it.
His racial traits would look something like this:
- +4 Strength, +8 Dexterity, +4 Constitution, -6 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, and -4 Charisma.
- Racial Skill Modifiers +4 Stealth in caverns, +8 Acrobatics, +16 Climb.
- Size Medium.
- Speed 40 ft., Climb 30 ft.
- +1 natural armor bonus to AC.
- Has darkvision 120 ft. and scent.
- Possesses immunity to diseases and poisons.
- Gains the Expert Climber, Leap Attack, Light Blindness, Sneak Attack, and Swarming racial abilities.
- Languages Undercommon. Bonus languages include anything the GM deems appropriate (likely none due to steep intelligence penalty).
You would also get all the benefits of having 3 "levels" of monstrous humanoid such as general feats, hit points, base saves, base attack, skill ranks, etc. Treat the combination of racial hit dice and class levels just as you would multiclassing between two classes.
All in all it strikes me as one of the few balanced monster races (at a quick glance at least).
|
for balance reasons i would advise using the "adding PC class to a monster" section and give them a +4 to two stats +2 to two stats no adjustment to one and -2 to the last stat (instead of standard pointbuy and rolling) this balances the normally unfair stat "bonanza" monsters as pc get (i also advise checking ac and making sure it not grossly higher than normal pcs)
sidenote: i am all for the kobolds getting a free NPC LEVEL to make up for their weak racial abilities (no need to make them megamages) and mites DO NOT need a level bump (climb movement rate and DR is plenty to make up for subpar mentals)
just my two cents.
for balance reasons i would advise using the "adding PC class to a monster" section and give them a +4 to two stats +2 to two stats no adjustment to one and -2 to the last stat (instead of standard pointbuy and rolling) this balances the normally unfair stat "bonanza" monsters as pc get (i also advise checking ac and making sure it not grossly higher than normal pcs)
I just wanted to point out that the section SD is referring to is meant for NPC monsters with class levels, not PC monster characters. Nevertheless, it may well be good balance advice for a house rule.
Ok thanks for the help guys. (On a semi-related note, I am GM the character was for a PC)
And Are you sure Mites shouldn't get that NPC level too? I was just a little confused because of the 1/4 CR that they share.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ok thanks for the help guys. (On a semi-related note, I am GM the character was for a PC)
And Are you sure Mites shouldn't get that NPC level too? I was just a little confused because of the 1/4 CR that they share.
It's a matter of opinion really. Judging balance in the game is more of an art form at times. As long as your group is having fun, I wouldn't worry about things TOO much.
Raving Dork, any chance you could map out the class progression for a lycanthrope PC I have? He's a werewolf, so I think he'd get 2 racial hit die? not sure though. I just get mixed up with getting the extra level as the party levels. The party is level 10.
That's a tricky one.
Best I can figure, if you started play as a natural lycanthrope, then you should lag one level behind everyone else throughout your career and keep control over your character during all forms.
If you contracted lycanthropy during play, then you should stay at your current level and progress along with everyone else at the same rate. This is balanced by the fact that you are cursed and don't always have control over the character.
Also, you do NOT gain ANY additional hit dice for the lycanthrope template in Pathfinder.
I have decided that no PCs with level adjustments can join the game till they have at least one character level. I have had problems in the past with a Lisardman rogue who could not pick locks yet. The sprite sorcerer who had no spell slots was a headache too. As long as I'm DMing, they start with a real first level character. Their monster PC can join later, because I have no problem with dual PCs.
How did you come to the negative 1 level, just curious. What if he was to choose a Dire Werewolf?
Than he would have slightly better natural armor and sharper teeth. In return, he has to deal with -1 to hit and -1 to AC from size half the time. In the end, not much really changes in terms of balance.
Dire wolf hybrid form he would get no negatives to hit or AC but would gain +6 str and +2 con over the standard wolf.
Actually, he would be considered large size and thus would take the penalties, though you are correct about the ability scores.