So patronize it.


RPG Superstar™ 2010 General Discussion

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There's a lot of chatter here about the enthusiasm people have for particular projects that didn't win...

So why not put the alternates up for patronage projects? They prefund through the model, Paizo has the forums to manage them (or could use Livejournal if they so desired) and the contacts to fill the other roles as necessary-- editor, developer, cartographers, illustrators.

Seriously.

There's already been a demonstrated desire for these adventures, why not allow people to vote with their wallets? You want to see these in print, you give the authors a shot through a patronage project and the risk is minimal, because the money's already there.

So you're waiting for....?

-Ben.

The Exchange

terraleon wrote:


So you're waiting for....?

-Ben.

Paizo permission, as they own the rights to all competition submissions.

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I'm waiting for Godot.

Seriously, Open Design got the rights to co-create From Shore to Sea, so it can be done. The question is whether or not there would be enough actual patrons putting up cash to support it. I suppose the first step would be for the competitors to contact Paizo to start the discussion.

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brock wrote:


Paizo permission, as they own the rights to all competition submissions.

Ah. :) I was directing that at TPTB, here at Paizo, but I could have been clearer.

...So, Paizo, what are you waiting for?

-Ben.


I think the Paizo crew probably has more than enough on their hands right now than to add a patronage project to their product schedule.


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It would be cool that Paizo granted OD/KQ license to do these patronage projects, We shall see the results of the co-ops with the Sunken Empires/Sea to SHore adventure

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James Martin wrote:
I'm waiting for Godot.

He should be here.

:-D

Mmm...Beckett.
[/threadjack]

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Lilith wrote:
I think the Paizo crew probably has more than enough on their hands right now than to add a patronage project to their product schedule.

It wouldn't have to impact their production schedule, any more than Wayfinder.

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Lilith wrote:
I think the Paizo crew probably has more than enough on their hands right now than to add a patronage project to their product schedule.

The amount of oversight necessary for a patronage project is low. You've already got an outline, you have an author, you have the appearance of project interest. You need a developer to set your production schedule and keep your author on track while coordinating art and maps, then manuscript turnover and editing. By putting a long term timeline in place, you can reduce your pressure, to a certain extent, even further. There's also the 2-month window available for greenlighting the project, where this can be coordinated or outsourced a little more.

Really, it's a matter of giving your author a certain length of rope, and seeing what becomes of it.

-Ben.


Chris Mortika wrote:
It wouldn't have to impact their production schedule, any more than Wayfinder.

I would venture to say that an official Golarion product has considerable more impact on the schedule than a totally fan-produced, unofficial project released under the Community Use Policy.

terraleon wrote:
The amount of oversight necessary for a patronage project is low. You've already got an outline, you have an author, you have the appearance of project interest. You need a developer to set your production schedule and keep your author on track while coordinating art and maps, then manuscript turnover and editing. By putting a long term timeline in place, you can reduce your pressure, to a certain extent, even further. There's also the 2-month window available for greenlighting the project, where this can be coordinated or outsourced a little more.

Initial oversight, no...but as you point out yourself, there's the developer, artists, and maps to consider as well. I'd rather Paizo focus on their core line of products, catch up on their schedule, and be able to take a day off once in a while than add more stuff to their workload (IMO, of course).

Besides, I hear there's this awesome company called Open Design that does patronage projects, and has been quite successful at it. Why, I even hear that Paizo's got a team-up with them in "From Shore to Sea!" :P

The Exchange Kobold Press

Indeed, Open Design has done many patronage projects, with quite a bit of success. And I'd say that success is the result of hard work by everyone involved, starting with the designer but certainly not ending with them.

If Paizo wants to work with Open Design to do another patronage project after the first one ships, I'd be all for it. But I think it would be prudent to see how From Shore to Sea and Sunken Empires do first.

In other words, I'm always thrilled when they asked me and/or Open Design to do a project for them. But really, it's their world and their call.

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I'll also step in and say that Paizo involvement on From Shore to Sea wasn't as hand's off as you put there, Ben. (But you ought to know that, Mr. Patron! =-)) In this case, maps, editing, art and development were all done in-house by Paizo just as with any other module in their lineup, not by Open Design as usual (which is a huge workload in and of itself, as you know). The only difference in this case was that, as the author, I had the collaborative force of Open Design patrons and developers behind me for the turnover, and otherwise there was the same exchange of canon, fact-checking, editing and information between me and the big guys as with any other module they publish.

Which in the end this would kind of rob Matt's victory a bit, because the ultimate prize is publication of the proposed adventure, and since the other pitches are now Paizo property, you could only do it as a collaborative patronage with their blessing like we did with From Shore to Sea, which means the other three contestants get the prize, too. Which is your point, I understand (everybody wins!), but it isn't 'little-work-on-Paizo's-part' scenario you put forth.

My point is, funding through a patronage project isn't a "freebie" for Paizo (or anyone involved, for that matter -actually MORE work than working solo), because they still get the developmental workload, art and map costs and all the usual editing passes, just like anything else they publish, even if we were extremely fortunate in our patronage project to be allowed to play in their playground for a bit, and on extremely hallowed ground at that.

Which I STILL can't believe, even as we creep up on the publishing date!!! =-)

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Fleece66 wrote:

I'll also step in and say that Paizo involvement on From Shore to Sea wasn't as hand's off as you put there, Ben. (But you ought to know that, Mr. Patron! =-)) In this case, maps, editing, art and development were all done in-house by Paizo just as with any other module in their lineup, not by Open Design as usual

...

My point is, funding through a patronage project isn't a "freebie" for Paizo (or anyone involved, for that matter -actually MORE work than working solo), because they still get the developmental workload, art and map costs and all the usual editing passes, just like anything else they publish, even if we were extremely fortunate in our patronage project to be allowed to play in their playground for a bit, and on extremely hallowed ground at that.

I'm not saying that there isn't work involved, and I've never said it's a freebie-- I'm saying that the cost of said work is funded prior to project greenlight by patrons. No threshold? No project.

Is there work? Of course, but Paizo has a lot of contacts for artists, cartographers and editors and they'd also have the fund-drive window to solicit work-schedule queries. The pitch is out there and it's shown to have market interest-- that's a big hurdle to consider for line development. Using the patron model ensures that you have production funds before you ever contract a soul for work.

Of course, we don't want to steal Matt's thunder, and so I'd say make it PDF with a POD option. Only Cult of the Ebon Destroyers goes automagically to print. These other ones get paper when you pay extra.

Just some thoughts.

-Ben.

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Fleece66 wrote:
Which in the end this would kind of rob Matt's victory a bit, because the ultimate prize is publication of the proposed adventure, and since the other pitches are now Paizo property, you could only do it as a collaborative patronage with their blessing like we did with From Shore to Sea, which means the other three contestants get the prize, too.
terraleon wrote:
Of course, we don't want to steal Matt's thunder, and so I'd say make it PDF with a POD option. Only Cult of the Ebon Destroyers goes automagically to print. These other ones get paper when you pay extra.

Doesn't bother me, I did what I hoped (and dreamed) to achieve from the RPG Superstar competition. To me, the more cool adventures out there, the better.


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I'm with Lilith on both accounts.

Lilith wrote:

I'd rather Paizo focus on their core line of products, catch up on their schedule, and be able to take a day off once in a while than add more stuff to their workload (IMO, of course).

Besides, I hear there's this awesome company called Open Design that does patronage projects, and has been quite successful at it. Why, I even hear that Paizo's got a team-up with them in "From Shore to Sea!" :P

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