No barbarian fast move does not work in heavy armor. It is a barbarian class ablity not a fighter one, so the fighter can not grant an exception. You could move 40' in medium armor however.
Fast movement does not work with heavy armor. It only works with no armor, light armor or medium armor. So yeah it stacks with medium armor giving your fighter 40 but does not work in heavy armor. Without the fighter training ya would move 30 in medium in place of 20, but your fighter allows ya to ignore movement in medium armor so the extra +10 would stack, but the barbarian does not gain the +10 in heavy armor
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Fast Movement (Ex)
A barbarian’s land speed is faster than the norm for her race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor, and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the barbarian’s speed because of any load carried or armor worn. This bonus stacks with any other bonuses to the barbarian's land speed.
The fighter's ability to move at full speed in heavy armor doesn't alter the fact that the barbarian's fast movement specifically states that it only works when in no, light or medium armor. You can move at full normal base speed but you don't get your barbarian fast movement because the ability doesn't care about how armor slows or doesn't slow you down. The fighter armor training and barbarian fast movement only work together nicely if your in medium armor as seeker has been saying.
i was wondering if my 7th lvl warrior took 8th level in barbarian would fast movement apply while wearing my full plate?
By the RAW, no, you don't get the extra movement in heavy armor, period. I'd check with your DM though, this definitely seems like a spot where the intent of the rules isn't being served by the letter of them, and if I were DMing I'd probably allow it.
i was wondering if my 7th lvl warrior took 8th level in barbarian would fast movement apply while wearing my full plate?By the RAW, no, you don't get the extra movement in heavy armor, period. I'd check with your DM though, this definitely seems like a spot where the intent of the rules isn't being served by the letter of them, and if I were DMing I'd probably allow it.
I think the intent is not allowing the Barbarian to use Fast Movement with heavy armor. Armor training wouldn't change that. Armor Training 2 just means in heavy armor you don't suffer the speed penalty.
Still taking a Fighter/Barbarian would allow you to use the to get 40 movement in Medium Armor where a straight Barbarian would be 30 and you could wear heavy armor moving that same speed as fighter/barbarian.
It should work with mithral full plate.
Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations.
This is definitely about movement, so I don't see why a Fighter 7/Barbarian 1 would not gain the benefits of fast movement in mithral plate. (In fact, you probably only need Fighter 3/Barbarian 1.)
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It should work with mithral full plate.
Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations.This is definitely about movement, so I don't see why a Fighter 7/Barbarian 1 would not gain the benefits of fast movement in mithral plate. (In fact, you probably only need Fighter 3/Barbarian 1.)
While it is true they are considered one category lighter for movement it is STILL a heavy armor type. Thus the increased movement would not apply. It is not so much about the weight of the armor as it is about the size and flexibility and freedom or constraints the armor impose. It very specifically states increased movement in none-medium armor type. If you still doubt, consider how they have specifically spelled out in pathfinder that you must still possess heavy armor proficiency even for Mithral Full Plate. Which is considered medium in all respects except it is still heavy armor.
While it is true they are considered one category lighter for movement it is STILL a heavy armor type. Thus the increased movement would not apply. It is not so much about the weight of the armor as it is about the size and flexibility and freedom or constraints the armor impose. It very specifically states increased movement in none-medium armor type. If you still doubt, consider how they have specifically spelled out in pathfinder that you must still possess heavy armor proficiency even for Mithral Full Plate. Which is considered medium in all respects except it is still heavy armor.
For proficiency, I agree that it is heavy armor and a pure Barbarian would take non-proficiency penalties on attack rolls. I am not seeing, however, why the reduction to a medium armor would not apply to Fast Movement.
A Barbarian gains +10 to speed in medium armor.
Mithral full plate is considered medium armor for purposes of movement.
A Barbarian wearing mithral full plate is considered to be wearing medium armor for purposes of movement.
Which of those statements do you disagree with? Unless you think that Fast Movement does not involve movement, I cannot see how you can agree with those statements and argue that the Fast Movement bonus does not apply when wearing mithral full plate.
I have to disagree. Mithral full plate is heavy armor. If it was not then ya would not need the Heavy armor proficiency to wear it. There for it does not work with fast movement. It does not change type so does not work
Now if a 3rd level fighter had Mithral full plate then he would be good, but the barbarian is limited by type So would not be good
As to gamebraker, well it was enough of a munchkin issue that changes were made to how it works. I would never allow this to fly myself.
So you also only allow a human paladin to move 20 feet in mithral full plate? Because, as you said, mithral is still heavy armor and heavy armor limits your speed to 20/x4.
So you also only allow a human paladin to move 20 feet in mithral full plate? Because, as you said, mithral is still heavy armor and heavy armor limits your speed to 20/x4.
No what he is saying is the Mitheral Full Plate is Heavy armor but for the purposes of movement it is considered Medium Armor though you still need Heavy Armor Proficiency to use it. So the Paladin would be still be 20 speed reguardless since Medium Armor slows you to 20 as well.
Now here why I say it would work for the Barbarian.
Reference PRD "Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations."
The Barbarian restriction for light or medium armor is other limitations. So the Barbarian can indeed use Mitheral Full Plate as medium armor for their fast speed.
Nope it's still heavy armor. Now if it was medium armor then yeah it would work. However it is not and does not count as such. If it did ya wouldn't need the heavy armor proficiency to wear it.
The line "Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. counts for things like chain mail allowing ya to move 30' and not 20. But ya see heavy armor ya still move 20 so those 4 of 12 types are outside the "Most of" range anyhow
Mithral armor no longer changes base type like it did in 3.5 So if it's heavy armor making it mithral does not change the fact that it is heavy armor
So no it does not work for fast move as that ability does not work in heavy armor
Fast Movement has limitation that it only works with no armor, light or medium. Mitheral Heavy armor is considered medium armor for this limitation. Simple as that. It says so right in the text.
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So you also only allow a human paladin to move 20 feet in mithral full plate? Because, as you said, mithral is still heavy armor and heavy armor limits your speed to 20/x4.No what he is saying is the Mitheral Full Plate is Heavy armor but for the purposes of movement it is considered Medium Armor though you still need Heavy Armor Proficiency to use it. So the Paladin would be still be 20 speed reguardless since Medium Armor slows you to 20 as well.
Now here why I say it would work for the Barbarian.
Reference PRD "Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations."
The Barbarian restriction for light or medium armor is other limitations. So the Barbarian can indeed use Mitheral Full Plate as medium armor for their fast speed.
I thought the only cavet they made in the mithiral is that you still have to take the Heavy Armor Proficiency to use it, but it would otherwise be considered medium armor
Nope it's still heavy armor. Now if it was medium armor then yeah it would work. However it is not and does not count as such. If it did ya wouldn't need the heavy armor proficiency to wear it.
The line "Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. counts for things like chain mail allowing ya to move 30' and not 20. But ya see heavy armor ya still move 20 so those 4 of 12 types are outside the "Most of" range anyhow
Mithral armor no longer changes base type like it did in 3.5 So if it's heavy armor making it mithral does not change the fact that it is heavy armor
So no it does not work for fast move as that ability does not work in heavy armor
I think you're getting tripped up on the fact that the barbarian would need Heavy Armor Proficiency to wear the armor with no penalties. ( I couldn't say what the penalties are for wearing an armor you aren't proficient in. )
The "most" blurb in mithral is because light armors do not go one category lighter because light is as low as it can go. From the SRD:
Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than steel but just as hard. When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor, and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving.
If the barbarian was proficient in heavy armors, and had a mithral full plate, he would absolutely gain his movement bonus in that armor.
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Here is the full text from Mithral:
Mithral: Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than steel but just as hard. When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor, and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).
Emphasis in bold. The only time the decrease does not apply is for purposes of proficiency. A barbarian could indeed wear Mithral Full Plate and gain his Fast Movement while doing so. He would take the ACP as a penalty to his attack rolls, however, unless he also took the Heavy Armor Proficiency feat.
Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys
An official response is pretty rare. In truth, I don't really see the confusion. Mithral makes the armor be treated as a lighter category, the only exception being for Proficiency. Seems pretty cut and dry.
I agree. The only case it cannot be one category lighter is in the case armor already considered light armor.
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You guys could always as Skip Williams. He's good for these kind of rules questions.
He does the Ask the Kobold articles over at Kobold Quarterly and has helped me out a few times.
Just shoot an email to tsrsage@aol.com and ask him. Who better to ask then the Sage himself?
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I think that people are throwing the correct answer out there, but not everyone is understanding it.
At 8th level, a 7 Fighter/ 1 Barbarian character can still gain the benefit from the Fast Movement class ability. You just need Mithral heavy armor. Mithral will drop the armor type from heavy to medium because of it's light weight (pg. 154-155 PHB). Now the levels of Fighter will give you the heavy armor proficiency that you need to avoid the armor check penalties, and you will be moving at +10ft faster than your normal base movement.
With an unlimited supply of wealth, you can also do this as 1 Barbarian. You just pay for the Mithral Full Plate, and burn your first level feat to take heavy armor proficiency.
I hope this clarifies the answer for anyone that was confused.
I think that people are throwing the correct answer out there, but not everyone is understanding it.
At 8th level, a 7 Fighter/ 1 Barbarian character can still gain the benefit from the Fast Movement class ability. You just need Mithral heavy armor. Mithral will drop the armor type from heavy to medium because of it's light weight (pg. 154-155 PHB). Now the levels of Fighter will give you the heavy armor proficiency that you need to avoid the armor check penalties, and you will be moving at +10ft faster than your normal base movement.
With an unlimited supply of wealth, you can also do this as 1 Barbarian. You just pay for the Mithral Full Plate, and burn your first level feat to take heavy armor proficiency.
I hope this clarifies the answer for anyone that was confused.
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Mithral counts as one armor set lighter in every aspect other then proficiency needed to wear it.
It's just like 3.x mithral only now you actually need the proficiency of the armor.
This way it still has almost all the benefits, but heavy armor now has an actual purpose.
Would sash of the war champion allow a barbarian 40' movement in mithril full plate providing he was proficient?
Also reiterating that mithral lowers armor type for affects besides proficiency. What's the purpose of Mithral otherwise?
Would sash of the war champion allow a barbarian 40' movement in mithril full plate providing he was proficient?
This thread was over 2 years old.
Sash of the War Champion treats your fighter level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of the armor training and bravery class features.
You didn't specify any fighter levels. If the barbarian doesn't have fighter levels, then he doesn't have the armor training or bravery class features, so the sash does nothing.
A barbarian with three levels of fighter could wear the sash to gain the benefits of armor training 2. This would allow him to move his full speed in heavy armor. This has no effect on mithral armor, nor on barbarian fast movement.
Without any fighter levels, a barbarian who is proficient with heavy armor could wear mithral full plate and still benefit from his Fast movement class feature. His speed would still be modified by medium armor, though.