Arcane Armor Training


Rules Questions


Can anyone tell me or link to the thread where it is explained why you spend 1-3 feats(arcane strike, arcane armor training, arcane armor mastery) and then have to use a swift action to use them?

I am not arguing over whether they should be I just want to hear why spending the feats wasn't enough cost. The use of a swift action every turn to actually use any of the above feats seems like a way to prevent them from being used. If I spend three feats so I can boost my damage a little and to wear medium armor and cast spells I don't understand why I have to blow my only swift action on being able to use one of those feats. That is 3 feats I could have used for something else.

Link or quick explanation why the feats were so overpowering they had to be nerfed?

Thanks


I all honesty, they just didn't want you using your class abilities that took us swift actions at the same time. Such as the gish PrC Eldrich Knight's capstone ability.

The Pathfinder version of this game system added a lot of feats too, where there was non before, especially with other feats.

Its too taxing, and really unnecessary IMHO.

But perhaps they see something I don't.


Daniel Waugh wrote:

Can anyone tell me or link to the thread where it is explained why you spend 1-3 feats(arcane strike, arcane armor training, arcane armor mastery) and then have to use a swift action to use them?

Link or quick explanation why the feats were so overpowering they had to be nerfed?

Apparently, arcane spells in armor is some sorta no-no. Unless you're a Bard. Go figure.

Anyways, Arcane Strike vs Arcane Armor Training isn't a problem, as you probably can only use one of these at a time - hit things OR cast spells. BUT, Quickened Spells use Swift Actions too, so you could conceivably want to do all three at the same time.

I can sort of see requiring something for Arcane Strike. There are VERY few feats that straight-up add damage, and they all have drawbacks. Power Attack and Deadly Aim require penalties to hit. Weapon Specialization is fighter only, 4th minimum, and requires a feat tax (Weapon Focus) and is narrow.

Arcane Strike scales with your caster level and has a simple prerequisite - being an arcane caster). That's pretty powerful for a feat, which is why it takes a Swift Action. Bards should love this feat.

Now, Arcane Armor Training, I have _no_ idea why that requires a Swift Action. What am I doing, rolling up my armored sleeves for a second?


Helic wrote:
Now, Arcane Armor Training, I have _no_ idea why that requires a Swift Action. What am I doing, rolling up my armored sleeves for a second?

Not to mention, the only armor arcane spell failure chance you can completely eliminate is chain shirt or below.....or you could use Mage Armor for the same bonus with no spell failure and no ACP! (You could eliminate the failure chance of mithral breastplate, but that's only 2 more armor bonus for 2 feats and a swift action every round.

So, apparently, we a deathly afraid of our campaigns being overrun by maniacal wizards who wear....omg!...BREASTPLATES!!!, while casting their highest level spell and one of their fifth highest level spells at the same time!!!!!

The sky is falling.

Sovereign Court

There just honestly aren't that many ways to lower your arcane spell failure in the whole d20 system kind of thing traditionally.

You had some classes which ignored a little bit of it (light armor traditionally) and then you had Mithril armor for 10% off. I'm sure other people can think of a few more but beyond that we had Thistledown Padded Armor with now ASF, a prestige class or two that lowered it with levels, and then the Twilight enchant for -10% ASF.

Now as for Arcane Spell Failure itself, it's both a hold over from older editions of D&D where you couldn't wear armor and cast spells at all with almost no exceptions (well elves to a certain degree) and then to balance them against the fact that they have magic to get up their armour class. Mage armor, shield, protection from evil, etc. A huge amount of buff spells that tend to last for minutes or hours rather then rounds and are normally relatively low level that give you quite the AC and protect you from more then just regular attack types.

A lot of people just like to complain about it when they don't even need to wear armour and should probably have a bit of the blame for 4th edition.

I don't know why they made the feats to start with honestly. Probably a submitted idea during the playtest that people liked.


If a character (Summoner) already has the ability to wear light armor (and not suffer ASF)...

And should they gain Medium Armor Proficiency (take it or multi-class into a class that has it), does that count towards the pre-req for Arcane Armor Mastery?

Does it count as having the Arcane Armor Training feat?


Black Thom wrote:

If a character (Summoner) already has the ability to wear light armor (and not suffer ASF)...

And should they gain Medium Armor Proficiency (take it or multi-class into a class that has it), does that count towards the pre-req for Arcane Armor Mastery?

Does it count as having the Arcane Armor Training feat?

This probably should have been it's own new thread, but I'll answer it anyway.

Yes, if you're proficient with medium armor in any way, that counts for Arcane Armor Mastery.

No, being able to cast spells in light armor with no penalty doesn't count as having Arcane Armor Training, and they're really not nearly as similar as they appear at first glance. AAT is a swift action to reduce your arcane failure from your armor by 10%. It doesn't matter if you're wearing leather or full plate - it goes down by 10% (minimum 0%, of course). The class ability to ignore arcane failure while wearing light armor is exactly that - you always ignore arcane failure chance if you're wearing light armor, no matter how high or low it is, and you ignore none of the failure chance of medium armor, even if it's no higher than light armor.

Example: If you're wearing a chain shirt as a wizard, you have 20% failure. AAT can reduce that to 10% as a swift action. If you're wearing hide armor, you have 20%. AAT can reduce that to 10% as well. If you're a summoner instead, you have no failure from the chain shirt, and 20% from the hide, without spending an action in either case. You could use AAT to reduce the hide armor's penalty to 10% just as a wizard can, and if you took Arcane Armor Mastery, you could reduce it to 0%, but you wouldn't be benefiting from your ability to wear light armor in any way.


I believe that the requirement for a swift action was due to a copyright issue that another company had for a similar feat.


Still spell is always available.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Arcane Armor Training All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.