Firt off: I'm really looking forward to this AP, I even started a subscription!
My question to those who might be privy to some information is:
What is the time aspect of this AP?
I'm guessing that this AP will take place over months and years, but what i want to know is how long the AP will be (game time, not real time of course).
Building a city, kingdom or whatever isn't something you do in a matter of weeks or even months, it takes years.
Is it one year/Book or what?
Maybe the AP doesn't have a built in timeline but i would still be interested in knowing an approximate.
Since the Campaign setting states a correlation between "real-time" and "Golarion-time" (Campaign setting pubished in 2008, Golarion calendar 4708). Furthermore it suggests that real-time and Golarion-time moves forward at the same rate it would give the players 6 months to build their kingdom (a very tough timeframe!).
I know as the GM I can do whatever I want but I would still like to know.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Firt off: I'm really looking forward to this AP, I even started a subscription!
My question to those who might be privy to some information is:
What is the time aspect of this AP?
I'm guessing that this AP will take place over months and years, but what i want to know is how long the AP will be (game time, not real time of course).
Building a city, kingdom or whatever isn't something you do in a matter of weeks or even months, it takes years.Is it one year/Book or what?
Maybe the AP doesn't have a built in timeline but i would still be interested in knowing an approximate.Since the Campaign setting states a correlation between "real-time" and "Golarion-time" (Campaign setting pubished in 2008, Golarion calendar 4708). Furthermore it suggests that real-time and Golarion-time moves forward at the same rate it would give the players 6 months to build their kingdom (a very tough timeframe!).
I know as the GM I can do whatever I want but I would still like to know.
The correct but unhelpful answer is "as long as you want."
Really, this might be the hardest thing to do in managing expectations for your players: Getting them out of the "1st-20th level in 6 months" mindset. So many campaigns and adventure series have this sense of impending doom, or onrushing events, or whatever kind of timer you want to describe. This one doesn't. It will, or it SHOULD, last for years.
That's on purpose.
Once you get to the end of adventure #1 and start #2, the intro text suggests you let (or encourage) PCs to take a solid year to just build their kingdom. Perhaps sprinkle in some exploring and some mini-adventures in there, but take their time.
You know how you never seem to have time to train animals and teach them tricks, or craft items, or research spells, or do anything else that takes a lot of chronological time? Heck, having your character fall in love, build a house, get married, have some KIDS for Heaven's sake... All of a sudden, those things are all in play.
The same goes for kingdom-building. They may start to say "this is taking too long to build this or do that." Remind them that "too long" is relative - they have all the time they need. If they need to save up for six months to build that great big whatever it is... THEY CAN! They're not going to be 90 years old by the end of the campaign, but they're also not going to be 19 years old by the end of it. A good decade should pass, maybe even two, by the time they are ready to ride off to that great adventurer's guild in the sky.
Training players out of that sense of urgency will take some doing and some reminding, but it'll be worth it to make the most of this AP.
Creative Director
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Actually, most of our Adventure Paths work just as well over the span of years when you get right down to it. We DO try to make them so that there's plenty of time between adventures or even DURING adventures for PCs to take time out, if only so that they can craft magic items.
With Kingmaker, though, there's actually stuff BUILT IN to the campaign during that down time. Kingdom building stuff takes place in one-month "turns" after all, and after a year, you won't have a really huge kingdom to show for it. Maybe a half-dozen hexes, at most, with a city that's more accurately called a hamlet or a village at its heart.
Moreso than any AP we've done so far, therefore, we're building in MULTIPLE points in each adventure where PCs can take time to slow down and build up.
That all said... you can absolutely still blaze through the AP super fast if you want; we'll be including some "Kingdom in the Background" sidebars in the adventures so that groups who want to either ignore or regulate kingdom stuff to the background won't have to worry about the kingdom building element. It's not going to be for everyone, and if your group ends up not liking it, the AP still works fine without it.
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With most APs though there's usually villains doing their thing in the background compelling the players towards action. Essentially once the players hit the first encounter in an adventure, there's rarely an opportunity to take a breath. Don't take this as a complaint, as i enjoy having a dramatic tension due to impending doom. It's still nice to see Kingmaker change the pace.
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With most APs though there's usually villains doing their thing in the background compelling the players towards action.
Just to play a bit of devil's advocate, RotRL had plenty of rest areas, including a winter to spring-thaw period of what could be months in between 3 and 4.
I seem to recall other "everyone massing forces" situations in the other APs as well.
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Creative Director
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With most APs though there's usually villains doing their thing in the background compelling the players towards action.Just to play a bit of devil's advocate, RotRL had plenty of rest areas, including a winter to spring-thaw period of what could be months in between 3 and 4.
I seem to recall other "everyone massing forces" situations in the other APs as well.
Yeah... there's actually been only a few AP adventures that DON'T have breaks between the action. Legacy of Fire is probably our fastest-paced adventure.
The fact that the adventures themselves are published once a month helps to create the illusion of "GO GO GO" a little bit, I suspect.
With Kingmaker, though, there's actually stuff BUILT IN to the campaign during that down time. Kingdom building stuff takes place in one-month "turns" after all, and after a year, you won't have a really huge kingdom to show for it. Maybe a half-dozen hexes, at most, with a city that's more accurately called a hamlet or a village at its heart.
Moreso than any AP we've done so far, therefore, we're building in MULTIPLE points in each adventure where PCs can take time to slow down and build up.
That all said... you can absolutely still blaze through the AP super fast if you want; we'll be including some "Kingdom in the Background" sidebars in the adventures so that groups who want to either ignore or regulate kingdom stuff to the background won't have to worry about the kingdom building element. It's not going to be for everyone, and if your group ends up not liking it, the AP still works fine without it.
Exactly the answer i was looking for, thanks Mr Jacobs!
I'm thinking of trying to get my players to really slow down and let the AP take place over 5-10 years and having them ending up with a proper kingdom.
Shouldn't be a big problem since i got them to take a 1 year break after Hook mountain massacre in the RotRL AP.
Oh, now i really can't wait for this AP to kick off! :)
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Creative Director
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One of the key parts of getting PCs to slow down is to NOT keep hitting them with adventure opportunities. A LOT of Kingmaker's adventures don't happen until either the players take it upon themselves to start something (usually by exploring the wilds), or until the GM hands them a quest (which is 100% controlled by the GM). It should be pretty easy to get things going at a more leisurely pace, in other words, since there's not an overarching looming threat in Kingmaker.
Well... there IS a looming threat, but the PCs probably won't realize it until later in the campaign.
Relevant to the question of huge time passage between adventures: How do handle PC's who have invested themselves into item crafting?
The natural anti-dote to a group getting ahead of the curve is to speed up the adventure, so that item crafting isn't so much of a game-breaker. However, if you give the players months on end between adventures, suddenly you have them building +5 books at level 12.
Er..... money?
It still takes GP to craf items..... and I guess that heroes having too much items compared to the standard (Which should be at most a factor 2.... as you still pay half the cost to craft something) is balanced out by them spending feats on it.