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Everything this poster has said as part of this thread.
The other players in your group sound like the Four Horsemen of the Douchepocalypse.
I'm the mostly-full-time DM for my group and I generally don't get involved in things that are typically palyer managed (splitting loot, for example), but I have to say I'd seriously express some unhappiness with this kind of behavior. fortunately, my group is pretty cool.
-Skeld
Everything this poster has said as part of this thread.The other players in your group sound like the Four Horsemen of the Douchepocalypse.
I'm the mostly-full-time DM for my group and I generally don't get involved in things that are typically palyer managed (splitting loot, for example), but I have to say I'd seriously express some unhappiness with this kind of behavior. fortunately, my group is pretty cool.
-Skeld
it's all aaron who does it. sorry if it sounded like the whole group does it. it would be more normal without him.
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Almost all of my characters keep a will of some sort. Most of my fortunes tend to go to support the family or other NPCs, but some special gear does tend to go to my running crew, provided I'm tight with them.
any organs he fails to sell, he uses as material for a homebrew spell of his. to guarantee free atonement spells, he keeps a bottle labeled "Soul of Luminiere Del Solaras I" and a Jar Labeled, "Lumi's Pure Heart." both are opaque, the soul is merely a lie, the heart actually belonged to said goodie 2 shoes angel blooded priestess of sarenrae. Lumi's family is pretty much all of the same purehearted innocent mindset. and mother Eclair wouldn't want neither her only daughters soul nor heart used for something evil. so he threatens to use the little girl's heart to bind asmodeus as a familiar, and her soul to bind Lamashtu as an animal companion, 2 deities the family is deathly afraid of as a whole. he has kept her heart in a large jar (think mummification) for a while and the bottle is actually blank and contains no soul, but is a blood red color. he gets his demands by intimidating the family into thinking he'll do such evil. darn aaron and his druid/wizard/mystic thuerges built around necromancy, his homebrew spell is a chain of spells built around conjuring undead by offering harvested organs as components, no corpse required. the amount of organs required scales with spell level, but is cheap enough for him to spam all day long. he keeps little miss Lumi's heart with him to keep up his threats though.
If I'm understanding this situation correctly...
wat
ATONEMENT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY
Seriously, said character needs to be smitemurdered by good-aligned bounty hunters or something.
We had this conversation in our group again just recently. Our DM and us as players didn't want a new character coming in and expecting to get items that the player knows either his previous character has or is in the party loot.
So when a PC dies, any items they come in with and especially those items that are very specific to that character (such as a paladins sword and armor emblazed with their holy symbol, wizards bonded item, and fighters uber sword) is either mystically destroyed with the character, or we send it back to the players homeland. Some of the lesser items like rings of protection +1 etc can stay with the party.
... many interesting posts ...
Ha ha! I think this character you refer to is awesome. I've enjoyed reading about him immensly. Personally, I'd have probably turned the group against him and assassinated him by now...done some equally vile things with his corpse just to prove a point. He's probably even wondering why no one has yet.
The question is moot! I get his stuff!
Damn! Beat me to it.
... many interesting posts ...Ha ha! I think this character you refer to is awesome. I've enjoyed reading about him immensly. Personally, I'd have probably turned the group against him and assassinated him by now...done some equally vile things with his corpse just to prove a point. He's probably even wondering why no one has yet.
i think i will have my lawful neutral Wizard 7/Loremaster 6 give Aaron and his wizard 3/druid3/mystic thuerge 6 a taste of his own medicine. with party permission. and i will deliver the bottled heart to the family he threatens for those free atonement spells so he can't exploit it. (the same family of a particular goodie 2 shoes angel blooded priestess whose very mother he strikes fear into by use of her daughter's heart. the family has the same mindset as the little girl in question) instead of selling his character's organs for cash, i will donate them to the church of sarenrae for thier acolytes to either use for mundane transplants or to practice thier healing spells. i would donate his vile researched spells to the church of Irori (the god i praise) to have them burn the evil documents. the group wants to kick his arse, but the dungeon master has this no PVP Combat rule, and Aaron is getting around it by doing it to dead individuals. so he is getting away with it by virtue of hiding behind the no player versus player combat rule.
i noticed aaron always plays 5th wheel hybrids with some hybrid dual progression PRC. he thinks he is so powerful because he walks 2 roads at once. trying to walk 2 roads at once shows a lack of discipline in itself. and on each half, the druid half prepares exclusively healing spells and a few crappy evocations, the wizard half is pure evocations. with no metamagic whatsoever. and he cannot even cast fly. nor can he cast any save or sucks, i can also outsave him in both fortitude and reflex, his dcs are also 4-5 points lower than mine. if i decided to take him out, i could. for extra insurance, blind him with glitterust. all he has are gimped heals and gimped blasts. and i can dispel any buff he casts with no effort at all.
The creature seeking atonement must be truly repentant and desirous of setting right its misdeeds.
Atonement only works if the character means it. Does the DM know this?
The creature seeking atonement must be truly repentant and desirous of setting right its misdeeds.Atonement only works if the character means it. Does the DM know this?
he doesn't really read everything and tries not to be a rules lawyer, so he may have made several mistakes there. the annoying player is not one either, and also hides behind the "But I'm Chaotic Neutral" and the "Druids can be any of the neutral alignments, including Chaotic" even though the rest of the group doesn't do the things Aaron does, a lot of them say, "But i'm Chaotic Neutral" using it as an excuse to kill random creatures that do not resemble a standard PC race in any way. regardless of the creature's alignment. so they are all roughly evil.
the group wants to kick his arse, but the dungeon master has this no PVP Combat rule, and Aaron is getting around it by doing it to dead individuals. so he is getting away with it by virtue of hiding behind the no player versus player combat rule.
There's always the "Oops! We didn't mean to all run away and leave him to get surrounded by an overwhelming number of enemies" solution to your problem. ;)
the group wants to kick his arse, but the dungeon master has this no PVP Combat rule, and Aaron is getting around it by doing it to dead individuals. so he is getting away with it by virtue of hiding behind the no player versus player combat rule.There's always the "Oops! We didn't mean to all run away and leave him to get surrounded by an overwhelming number of enemies" solution to your problem. ;)
good idea.
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when new PC's come in, it's usually because Glenn's PC has died.
I usually DM, and the two of us are the only "he's dead, jim, there's no coming back" kind of players. Everyone else usually gets really hardcore about coming back from the dead (or never ever getting that way).
That being said, we loot the dead guy, assuming no will or stated last wishes. Useful magics, like potions/scrolls/wands/arrows and such are distributed. Anything that's a straight upgrade goes up for grabs (+3 Ring of Prot, everyone has +2, that kind of thing), and any remainder goes into the party treasure table. That is everything we pick up, minus any items that go to party members.
Lately, with CoT and LoF giving out so many curative potions and the like, we've been remarkably good at staying alive.
New characters usually come in at APL -1 or APL, with 3/4 to 100% of WBL guidelines. I leave it up to the party not to twink out crazily, and pay very little attention to what they have on at any given time (within reason...Belt of Battle, Animated Shield, I'm looking at you...)
It's worked for us, although I typically give the Simple Advanced template to all the published critters I run...
-t
I can personally relate to the topic at hand - the gaming group I formerly ran had this philosiphy to "ransack" other player characters bodies when they died (and would prefer rolling a new character over having one get ressurected).
Ordinarily I would not mind if this happened once or twice, but one gamer in my group ALWAYS found a way to die, he dove out to get his Sneak Attack on the first round and then got pounded into mush when his party held back and took up sensible tactical options and positions. He ALWAYS played Rogues and always was like some hyped up Initiative junkie who always went first (much to his detriment many times).....he never bothered to take advantage of flanking and suchlike or feinting, just wanted to 'go first, sneak attack and ask questions later'...yeah...
Suffice to say the party members all too happily looted his corpses one after another, and I frankly got tired of this because it left me with a dilemma.
I was tempted to reduce what his new character begins with on the grounds he loses an average of one character per session (no joking on this part), but this is unfair and makes him even more likely to die and the opposite is worse, giving him more will not keep him alive and just make the party richer at the same time...
...But that doesnt work in all fairness, so to keep a level playing field I had his "new" characters introduced to the party through an Orginisation/Guild one or more of them belonged to and had their 'stuff' marked and loaned to them by the Guild for a discount price from the items lists (this allowed him to buy more items and at the same time the goods were "hot" and few if any merchants would touch guild branded merchandise). You could throw in some Arcane Marks, seals and conditional enchantments that cause it to operate effectively in the hands of a recognised Guild operative (though a almost intentional "Drawback" from the Curse section for Cursed Weapons) though other characters could use it in a diminished capacity.
That rectified things in my game (for a good while at least...lol)
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My ranger almost died in last week's Council of Thieves game ... twice! This of course got me thinking about what would happen if I had to roll up a new character (assuming, for whatever reason we decided against springing to get him raised etc)
So, assuming a higher level character gets killed (we are around 7th level) what happens to his stuff? Obviously he is going to have some decent magic ( arms, armor, items etc)
There really is no official line on this is there? Does the remaining party take it and sell it? The resulting additional gold might be a bit unbalancing. Does the player get to just let his newly created character have it? That seems equally unfair since he would have already outfitted the character with magic according to the Character Wealth By Level rules. Does the stuff just kind of go away? Obviously it does't ...
Is there a free for all where the remaing characters loot his body? I sure hope not?
So, I'm curious ... how do people generally handle this?
In our group it depends on the characters. Typically if the person can not be brought back. The rest of the group will take a item if it is something of use to them or a cohort in the group. The rest they typically sell and split the gold value sending a big junk of it to the PC's family if they had one. Those that got a item tend to send extra gold to the family. But it varies from game to game some depending on the type of characters players are playing.
so he is getting away with it by virtue of hiding behind the no player versus player combat rule.
Do what your characters would do IRL ... let him get himself into trouble and leave him some place. Then come back and salvage what remains.
Oh and those atonements ... to atone you have to genuinely want to. It's clear he doesn't, so why is it working?
This problem occurs eventually for every group. My players tend to see it as perfectly acceptable to loot their fallen friends of any and all magics leaving just mundane stuff for the funeral. As counterbalance I have been allowing the new pc in with less gear, a few basics but not full yequipped so they catch up. It has worked so far...
The question is moot! I get his stuff!Damn! Beat me to it.
I'm glad someone else remembers that one.
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The WORST solution is to have the dead character's gear divided up or sold with the proceeds being split among the surviving PCs. This means the ones who didn't die get more powerful and the replacement character (assuming he's brought in at normal cash level) is less powerful and even more prone to dying again.
A good solution is to have the dead character's gear go with him. If the PC was slain in a particularly dramatic way, his gear can be destroyed (save for plot-items). Or perhaps his gear could be sent to his relatives, or even buried with him.
Perhaps the BEST solution is to let the player's new character inherit the old character's gear... or at very least, the gp equivalent in gear.
Of course, all of this assumes the dead character's not going to come back to life!
I go with this option. Unless there is an item that is needed to complete the adventure.
I hate gear ballance issues.
so he is getting away with it by virtue of hiding behind the no player versus player combat rule.Do what your characters would do IRL ... let him get himself into trouble and leave him some place. Then come back and salvage what remains.
Oh and those atonements ... to atone you have to genuinely want to. It's clear he doesn't, so why is it working?
he harasses the DM left and right until the DM submits to it out of annoyance. he has only been allowed to stay in the group because the dm needs players and most new players don't stay very long.
regardless of the campaign, we tend get about 10 horribly annoying drizzt clones a year who quit, come the end of the month they joined. they always join in pairs. if drow are banned, then they propose progressively stranger elven subraces, being rejected until they just play normal elves. who fled some lawful evil matriarch. we get 5 of these pairings a year. and each one is short lived. not to mention, thier first appearance takes up 3 hours of our weekly 5 hour session. the guys are always chaotic good, always have twin scimitars, always have panthers, and always take the wierdest and least optimal favored enemies to take. mostly stuff that expired last module or will never show up during the whole campaign.
so my dm will put up with a lot of B.S. to keep commited consistent players, that won't leave a month later, guess i will have to tell him to ban rangers.
.... I have not the words. My condolences is all I can offer.
It's up to the party, usually it is assumed that most of his things are sent to his next of kin. If the party wants to keep his gear then the DM might have to limit the amount of gold the replacement character will have or just sent a nasty spellcaster at the group armed with disjunction (at high levels) or sundering fighters to bring the wealth level down a bit. I prefer sending his gear to his wife/kids sort of thing because how many stories start that way, warrior dies and years later his children take up his arms and fight in his memory.
I'd be on this line in all situations....after all if a friend of yours dies would you really start rifling through his wallet, steal his laptop, knick his car?
The answer would be a resounding NO from everyone other than the most callouse of person.
From a game point of view the rest of the party getting his stuff may be unbalanced by them getting his stuff.
Overall if he or she should have a family then his best stuff should be passed to them or perhaps the party should give over monies to the value of the items.
We... never really think of this. Some players loot. But there's no selling. If you take something better than your current equipment (fighter has +3 greatsword, barbarian has +2. Fighter dies. Barbarian has +3 greatsword now) But then most players usually give the old item to the dead character to be buried with. Sometimes, I'll require either the party (or sometimes specific characters) to justify it. For the evil rogue, no excuse is really needed. But if the paladin is the fighting partner and best friend of the deceased, he might take up the weapon as a matter of honor. Once though, my evil cleric of undead creating wierdness (but nothing like Aaron) brought a dead PC back as a zombie. That was one helpful zombie.
Never wear a dead guy's watch, it's bad luck.
Never wear a dead guy's watch, it's bad luck.
Anything else is fair game though. If you count a grapple between a half orc fighter and a gnome illusionist fair