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My ranger almost died in last week's Council of Thieves game ... twice! This of course got me thinking about what would happen if I had to roll up a new character (assuming, for whatever reason we decided against springing to get him raised etc)
So, assuming a higher level character gets killed (we are around 7th level) what happens to his stuff? Obviously he is going to have some decent magic ( arms, armor, items etc)
There really is no official line on this is there? Does the remaining party take it and sell it? The resulting additional gold might be a bit unbalancing. Does the player get to just let his newly created character have it? That seems equally unfair since he would have already outfitted the character with magic according to the Character Wealth By Level rules. Does the stuff just kind of go away? Obviously it does't ...
Is there a free for all where the remaing characters loot his body? I sure hope not?
So, I'm curious ... how do people generally handle this?
use common sense, normally the other party members will decide what happens to the fallen comrades stuff (assuming that the do not get him raised for some reason), though I had one player who generally wrote out a "will" for his characters.
It's up to the party, usually it is assumed that most of his things are sent to his next of kin. If the party wants to keep his gear then the DM might have to limit the amount of gold the replacement character will have or just sent a nasty spellcaster at the group armed with disjunction (at high levels) or sundering fighters to bring the wealth level down a bit. I prefer sending his gear to his wife/kids sort of thing because how many stories start that way, warrior dies and years later his children take up his arms and fight in his memory.
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Make sure the new character you roll up is the next of kin. Seriously, you'll probably start a few levels lower than the rest of the party, but not at level 1. Having some equipment handed down from a previous character will ease that gap. Plus, a new character starting at mid-level is entitled to a certain amount of starting loot. Why not make it the old character's stuff. If the value of the old character's stuff is too high, give the new guy some of it, up to the appropriate amount for a starting character of that level. The rest went to other family members, or was used to retire debts and pay for funeral expenses.
BTW, the new guy as next of kin also help justify why a new character suddenly joins an existing party.
Creative Director
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The WORST solution is to have the dead character's gear divided up or sold with the proceeds being split among the surviving PCs. This means the ones who didn't die get more powerful and the replacement character (assuming he's brought in at normal cash level) is less powerful and even more prone to dying again.
A good solution is to have the dead character's gear go with him. If the PC was slain in a particularly dramatic way, his gear can be destroyed (save for plot-items). Or perhaps his gear could be sent to his relatives, or even buried with him.
Perhaps the BEST solution is to let the player's new character inherit the old character's gear... or at very least, the gp equivalent in gear.
Of course, all of this assumes the dead character's not going to come back to life!
My groups do generally "loot" the dead PC (if not coming back), though I don't kill PCs that often generally.
In Council of Thieves though, a great solution presents itself:
(spoiler only for those who haven't started playing)
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In my group we usually first try to get the character revived (if possible). We do this even if it costs the character too much gear to be playable, in which case they take what's left and retire. Thus the new character has his own gear, no conflict.
If reviving doesn't work/happen we send their gear to any known family. If no family is known then they are buried with the primary pieces (armor, weapons, other equipped gear, etc) but we take the single-use things like potions and scrolls (if anyone can use them).
The exception to the above is if the situation is very dire and the equipment makes it go from nearly impossible to somewhat possible or higher. In that case people take what can be used, and leave the rest. Then again, the balance issue doesn't really exist in a situation that's already very dire.
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I say make sure the new PC is the next of kin. Your new PC will probably start a level or two behind the other players, but probably not all the way back to level 1. Inheriting some equipment may help make up for the level gap. Also, starting PCs at higher than level 1 are entitled to a certain amount of loot. Just have the inherited equipment be that loot. If there is too much for the appropriate level, or something that would be unbalancing, just bequeath the new PC some of the equipment and say everything else went to other family members or to retire old debts and pay for funeral expenses.
BTW - the new PC as kin of old PC also help explain why a new guy is joining an established adventuring party.
Our group is horrible when it comes to character deaths. I'm fortunate to be playing in the Council of Thieves game instead of running it, and am the current treasure recorder.
Treasure that is found and given out is recorded under the character's name in my note book. When two of our party members died (for example), and they wanted to bring in some one new, those party items were divided up between the group, their other gear either went with them or was divided amongst all of us.
We are playing through the Council of Thieves with three different individuals for each player, so over balancing the game isn't a problem.
In passed games, the treasure that the party earned were the items earned off dead party members- the adventure seemed to be lacking magic items and they never came across any large cities to buy anything, so...
But, we've always collected treasure off of dead comrades.
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We try to handle it honestly for the most part while not completely throwing everything away with the deceased.
Traditionally for us any treasure that was divided out in the dungeon we're still clearing goes back into the party pool and we do take things like random potions/scrolls/wands and the like. Minor magic items usually are kept with the body, as are things like weapons and armor.
Honestly we usually feel bad about striping the body of a comrade but at the same time if someone dies we're probably going to need any single use magic they had. If the player takes issue to someone taking something though, we'll handle it how they wish.
My suggestion for characters who don't wish to be striped naked at death is to both flesh out their character's background and family a bit and to carry a will.
my group has also always looted the corpses of dead comrades. to the point where the looted comrade is entirely buck naked, have every organ harvested to sell on the "Black Market", and the rest of thier corpse converted into art objects or materials for them. the dead comrade in question is denied even a raise dead or reincarnate spell. thier new pc is denied a share of the old ones treasure.
heres a whiny little exception that encourages it upon everyone else but forces through tantrums that he get the following, 2 shares of treasure to everybody's 1 share. a true resseruction every time he dies, even if it costs everybody elses reward but his own. priority dibs on any treasure offered, a remove disease spell for every STD his character contracts, and heres his other factors below
he plays 5th wheels and only 5th wheels. his favorite is poorly built suboptimal druid/wizard/mystic theurges who load up on undead making spells and have to buy repeated atonement spells because he violated the laws of nature.
Well, when I DM, I create the idea of 'grave goods' wherein a dead persons possessions are considered to be be 'haunted' because he needs them to get through to the afterlife, and won't leave unless he is buried with them (ie you will have a ghost/spectre/shadow/revenant on your back until you bury the goods with the body). This encourages some good sending-offs for dead PCs even by 'evil' groups, because nobody likes a ghost emerging from their new sword and sucking the life out of them in their sleep. This is where cursed items come from ...
Shuriken, you have my heartfelt condolences. If you are DM for your group, please feel free to use the above idea to send your PCs on a few quests to retrieve bits of fallen comrades in order to give them a decent burial ...
Well, when I DM, I create the idea of 'grave goods' wherein a dead persons possessions are considered to be be 'haunted' because he needs them to get through to the afterlife, and won't leave unless he is buried with them (ie you will have a ghost/spectre/shadow/revenant on your back until you bury the goods with the body). This encourages some good sending-offs for dead PCs even by 'evil' groups, because nobody likes a ghost emerging from their new sword and sucking the life out of them in their sleep. This is where cursed items come from ...
Shuriken, you have my heartfelt condolences. If you are DM for your group, please feel free to use the above idea to send your PCs on a few quests to retrieve bits of fallen comrades in order to give them a decent burial ...
This is a great idea!
It is quite difficult to predict what the players will do. In generel I'll wait and see if it is a problem. If they are under-equipped, they might just get the items, and you could perhaps decrease the loot in the following quests to balance it.
If it will make the group unbalanced, then I'd (now) use Dabbler's idea, or have the dead characters relatives come to claim the items.
An easy solution is only to use T-Rex' as monsters. Then the characters die from swallow whole, and their items are destroy by the stomach acid!
In every game I've ever run there's been two ways of keeping track of treasure.
Personal Items and Party Items.
Personal Items are items people buy with their share of the loot. It may be that the party get's a really nifty item and someone says "Hey, that Adamantine Hammer would be perfect for me, I want it.". In which case they take it and it becomes personal gear and they give up a little party treasure.
Party Items are handed out to the party who can use them, but they go back into the pot when they get to town and start shopping around, so if they find a nice set of +3 mithral chain in town and need to raise cash, they barter and trade a bunch of party items and gold for it. That item usually becomes a personal item (replacing the rogues +2 leather armor for example). The replaced item generally then becomes a party item.
When someone dies, their personal items (sans scrolls, potions and wands) goes to the next of kin, or wherever they requested it go (for example, I've had some specify they wanted it sent to a village they encountered in their travels, to be sold by the village and the proceeds used to rebuild or expand).
It's a nice balance, there's the idea that if it's in party items it doesn't go away if someone dies, but, it's also likely to be used to buy/sell/barter for something if it's in party treasure, so you can't just keep all your equipment in party treasure so it sticks around if you die.
It seems to work as a nice balance and everyone is happy.
Considering the recent brushes with death, I don't think it would be out of character for your ranger to write up a will. It remains to be seen of your party members would follow it, but at least you're making your preferences known.
For the most part, the treasure is divided amongst the group.
Back in 3.0 and part of 3.5 though, my games were brutal as hell and the looting of dead party members became a bit of a problem. I invented a magic item called "Anklets of Explodey". Inevitables traveled around the world finding adventurers at inns, snuck in, and affixed these extremely cursed items onto all PCs. When the PC died, and another PC approached with the intent to loot the body of its magic items, the items disintegrated. This was mostly determined by DM fiat. If the PCs were gonna get them resurrected, I didn't explode the items. It worked out for us at the time.
I don't do this anymore. I'm a stickler for "realism" now. The players are good enough, my treasure distribution refined enough, and my adventures challenging enough that dead character looting isn't much of an issue anymore.
I can see where if you were only running published adventures with 25 point buy (shudder) where it would be an issue, though. If I were doing that, I think Anklets of Explodey would make a comeback.
Actually, right now my players have a powerful magical disease which has no cure. From time to time they turn into figurines (about the size of a figurine of wondrous power). This allows me to take them out of the adventure if their player can't make it to that week's session or if the plot deems it... interesting. This could be modified to also have the PCs turn into figurines when they die. Only resurrection could bring them back to their natural state. In this way, the disease can kill two birds with one stone - easily removing a PC from the adventure without too much of a plot hole AND locking out the PC's magic items when they die.
In my group, our players will loot other players if they cannot get them at least a raise dead. If they can get them a raise dead, they will pay for it with the fallen characters gold/valuables, or at least as much as the dead character could afford. Unless were really broke, we do not sell the fallen characters armor/weapons or other items they depend on for this raise.
However if a resurrection is not an option it's pretty much fair game as far as the morals of the party goes. A paladin for example would not take stuff with the intent to sell, but would take it if that would help further the parties cause. On the other hand, evil characters would loot as much as possible. This can actually come in handy with the encumbrance rules, (for the DM that is) even with bags of holding. (We go by 50gp being equal to one pound, as on page 140 it states that one pound of gold is 50 gp in value.)
An easy solution is only to use T-Rex' as monsters. Then the characters die from swallow whole, and their items are destroy by the stomach acid!
This happened to some characters recently, so we took a list of all the magic items that might survive in it's stomach to use as loot for later should we encounter that T-rex again.
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In most games I've played in we try everything we can to get the member raised back up. Up to and including selling his stuff if we have too. If we don't each one tends to be different but we do a bit of shared looting for the needed stuff to survive but his main gear usually gets sent back to his family (if possible) or buried with him.
Even in parties where the PCs are willing to give the items to the next of kin, there may be situations where it isn't possible. In one of my groups, the GM has inserted a story element where the party is attempting to rebuild a long-lost artifact and the pieces are keyed to a particular PC. In her campaign, raising a character is next to impossible so the group would be forced to keep the artifact piece and find someone who it can be attuned to before the final assembly.
However, I do like the next-of-kin idea and it would actually fit with the story. Thanks for the suggestion in the earlier post.
This is a great idea!
It is quite difficult to predict what the players will do. In generel I'll wait and see if it is a problem. If they are under-equipped, they might just get the items, and you could perhaps decrease the loot in the following quests to balance it.
If it will make the group unbalanced, then I'd (now) use Dabbler's idea, or have the dead characters relatives come to claim the items.An easy solution is only to use T-Rex' as monsters. Then the characters die from swallow whole, and their items are destroy by the stomach acid!
Thank you!
If people are wondering (and whiney players may question) about looting enemies, if you beat them their stuff becomes yours by right of conquest. If you steal stuff and they are still alive, they can come after you themselves. However, if you abuse certain social mores (such as the Hospitality codes, whereby if you are invited into a home you are safe from harm, but cannot harm your host in return) and do the dirty on people, you might find your new gear cursed if they have time to figure out who did it.
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The rogues used to be a litle more heartless on this regard (maybe it is the 1.0 assassin) PCs used to steal other PCs stuff.
Leaving the other PC alive was considered the "favor" for the time they spent adventuring together....
PCs used to play alignments alot better, the magic was considered "rude" to cast know alignment and it would change peoples attitude. Everyone likes to be taken at their word.....
At some point it became that everyone was casting and using magic in leu of Roleplaying encounters.....
Given that I didn't start playing til 3.0/3.5, i hadn't really seen this attitude, but it makes alot of sense. Turning on the lie detector everytime you have an interaction with NPCs is essentially questioning the integrity (and honor) of those NPCs. Given that the traditional D&D/Pathfinder setting is midevil-ish, that would lend itself to alot of pissed off NPCs and i would DM it accordingly (think duels at the offended honor).
This is one case where i handwave as a DM. I get a wishlist from each of my players on things they want. If a player dies I simply say to my players, 'look i track your wealth, i have a list of everything you've gotten, if you want to loot your comrade go ahead, but it means you will get less in rewards for a while. Or you could bury his stuff with him/send if to family and I will continue making items from each of your wishlists available.'
Whoever collects the gear (Duh)... Which is usually the enemy, because when a PC is dying by anything else than an accident, then it quickly can get followers ;)
Well, when I DM, I create the idea of 'grave goods' wherein a dead persons possessions are considered to be be 'haunted' because he needs them to get through to the afterlife, and won't leave unless he is buried with them (ie you will have a ghost/spectre/shadow/revenant on your back until you bury the goods with the body). This encourages some good sending-offs for dead PCs even by 'evil' groups, because nobody likes a ghost emerging from their new sword and sucking the life out of them in their sleep. This is where cursed items come from ...
Shuriken, you have my heartfelt condolences. If you are DM for your group, please feel free to use the above idea to send your PCs on a few quests to retrieve bits of fallen comrades in order to give them a decent burial ...
unfortunately i am one of the players, not the dm. i am not the 5th wheel who demands constant true ressurections either.
i tried to deter my group from the mentioned depravities by statting 12 year old girls as my pcs. most of the group claims to be "Chaotic Neutral" most of them are either former RPGA power nuts or casual combat junkies, who go back to town only to shop for supplies, the depravity still continued. and my dm didn't call the party "Evil" yet. the whole party is built around one thing, killing stuff and looting the dead, farming organs, and turning the rest of the body into art object materials. decorative skulls, layered flesh masks, or makeshift spell components.
unfortunately i am one of the players, not the dm. i am not the 5th wheel who demands constant true ressurections either.i tried to deter my group from the mentioned depravities by statting 12 year old girls as my pcs. most of the group claims to be "Chaotic Neutral" most of them are either former RPGA power nuts or casual combat junkies, who go back to town only to shop for supplies, the depravity still continued. and my dm didn't call the party "Evil" yet. the whole party is built around one thing, killing stuff and looting the dead, farming organs, and turning the rest of the body into art object materials. decorative skulls, layered flesh masks, or makeshift spell components.
You seriously need to find a new group. Seriously.
easier said than done. my dm has failed to deter them with little more than the No Evil PC's rule.
they have done this to my pcs especially so,
an aasimaar blooded (but not quite enough to be one) human acolyte of sarenrae got looted before she could get the lessons required to join the dervishes.
the Tian-Min daughter of a deceased general got this treatment too, the harvesting done with her own twin +1 cold iron daggers
at least my wizard survived, she is 22 years old and looks about 14-16 range at a height of 5'4" and a weight of 100 lbs. the dm doesn't like underage wizards, he allowed underage rogues and the cleric only got away with it because she started first level.
any time i build a wizard, it is usually towards campaigns end and they usually last until the end. i have only tested this with PRCed wizards.
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Well, when I DM, I create the idea of 'grave goods' wherein a dead persons possessions are considered to be be 'haunted' because he needs them to get through to the afterlife, and won't leave unless he is buried with them (ie you will have a ghost/spectre/shadow/revenant on your back until you bury the goods with the body). This encourages some good sending-offs for dead PCs even by 'evil' groups, because nobody likes a ghost emerging from their new sword and sucking the life out of them in their sleep. This is where cursed items come from ...
Shuriken, you have my heartfelt condolences. If you are DM for your group, please feel free to use the above idea to send your PCs on a few quests to retrieve bits of fallen comrades in order to give them a decent burial ...
unfortunately i am one of the players, not the dm. i am not the 5th wheel who demands constant true ressurections either.
i tried to deter my group from the mentioned depravities by statting 12 year old girls as my pcs. most of the group claims to be "Chaotic Neutral" most of them are either former RPGA power nuts or casual combat junkies, who go back to town only to shop for supplies, the depravity still continued. and my dm didn't call the party "Evil" yet. the whole party is built around one thing, killing stuff and looting the dead, farming organs, and turning the rest of the body into art object materials. decorative skulls, layered flesh masks, or makeshift spell components.
Yeah. Everyone in that party is either Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil. Chaotic evil for the sheer enjoyment of slaughter, and neutral evil because earning a little extra money is more important than even the most basic respect for the dead. A (L/N/C) neutral person would probably loot their stuff, but wouldn't part out the body.
If you have trouble simply have paladins start hunting them down and they'll get the point.
The question is moot! I get his stuff!
how much do harvested organs sell for? i'm pretty sure it's not 10,000 gold pieces for a heart or brain. or even 5,000 a lung. the whiny 5th wheel does all of the encouraging of the harvest. he fudges ludicrous organ values, he even bought masterwork surgeon's tools to do it with. all of his pcs are STD ridden, and he always has maxed ranks in survival, heal, and profession (Surgeon) to do the organ harvesting. the latter to do the removal, the former 2 to restore and preserve the organs so that they may be used in the black market. he also buys special magic preservatives made by wizards to maintain his black market goods. he is the primary harvester. he is the most depraved member among them, and also one of the casual combat junkies.
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how much do harvested organs sell for? i'm pretty sure it's not 10,000 gold pieces for a heart or brain. or even 5,000 a lung. the whiny 5th wheel does all of the encouraging of the harvest. he fudges ludicrous organ values, he even bought masterwork surgeon's tools to do it with. all of his pcs are STD ridden, and he always has maxed ranks in survival, heal, and profession (Surgeon) to do the organ harvesting. the latter to do the removal, the former 2 to restore and preserve the organs so that they may be used in the black market. he also buys special magic preservatives made by wizards to maintain his black market goods.
In a world with restorative magic, what's the point in selling organs on the black market? I mean, necromancers want the whole body, and a regenerate spell could take care of the damaged organs the PC is collecting.
Why aren't the harvested organs eaten?No farva beans or chianti for the liver?
Indeed. It's a shame it should go to waste.
how much do harvested organs sell for? i'm pretty sure it's not 10,000 gold pieces for a heart or brain. or even 5,000 a lung. the whiny 5th wheel does all of the encouraging of the harvest. he fudges ludicrous organ values, he even bought masterwork surgeon's tools to do it with. all of his pcs are STD ridden, and he always has maxed ranks in survival, heal, and profession (Surgeon) to do the organ harvesting. the latter to do the removal, the former 2 to restore and preserve the organs so that they may be used in the black market. he also buys special magic preservatives made by wizards to maintain his black market goods. he is the primary harvester. he is the most depraved member among them, and also one of the casual combat junkies.
Have you considered DMing a game for this bunch? I imagine somebody making them deal with 'consequences' would come as something of a shock ...
It's easier just to let the new character come in with the same GP amount of items that the previous did, assuming for a new character and not a revival.
PCs are heroes and get either a hero's grave or a proper viking funeral ;)
how much do harvested organs sell for? i'm pretty sure it's not 10,000 gold pieces for a heart or brain. or even 5,000 a lung. the whiny 5th wheel does all of the encouraging of the harvest. he fudges ludicrous organ values, he even bought masterwork surgeon's tools to do it with. all of his pcs are STD ridden, and he always has maxed ranks in survival, heal, and profession (Surgeon) to do the organ harvesting. the latter to do the removal, the former 2 to restore and preserve the organs so that they may be used in the black market. he also buys special magic preservatives made by wizards to maintain his black market goods. he is the primary harvester. he is the most depraved member among them, and also one of the casual combat junkies.
F#$&ing forget finding another group. Move to a different state entirely.
any organs he fails to sell, he uses as material for a homebrew spell of his. to guarantee free atonement spells, he keeps a bottle labeled "Soul of Luminiere Del Solaras I" and a Jar Labeled, "Lumi's Pure Heart." both are opaque, the soul is merely a lie, the heart actually belonged to said goodie 2 shoes angel blooded priestess of sarenrae. Lumi's family is pretty much all of the same purehearted innocent mindset. and mother Eclair wouldn't want neither her only daughters soul nor heart used for something evil. so he threatens to use the little girl's heart to bind asmodeus as a familiar, and her soul to bind Lamashtu as an animal companion, 2 deities the family is deathly afraid of as a whole. he has kept her heart in a large jar (think mummification) for a while and the bottle is actually blank and contains no soul, but is a blood red color. he gets his demands by intimidating the family into thinking he'll do such evil. darn aaron and his druid/wizard/mystic thuerges built around necromancy, his homebrew spell is a chain of spells built around conjuring undead by offering harvested organs as components, no corpse required. the amount of organs required scales with spell level, but is cheap enough for him to spam all day long. he keeps little miss Lumi's heart with him to keep up his threats though.
... so basically, he acts like a serial killer. If I advocated violence (and I don't) I would say: Beat your DM repeatedly with a folding chair until he admits this is evil behaviour - no, on second thoughts, beat your DM and this player repeatedly with a folding chair.
Seriously, though, you should get involved in some of the on-line games here.
Well . . . on that note.
I didn't notice if anyone brought this up, but page 403 of the Core rulebook actually speaks to this situation, recommending that a character's gear either "disappear" (interred with the PC or sent on to family), or that the new character be brought into the campaign without level appropriate gear.
It also really depends on how much you care about keeping PCs gear in line. Totally overgeared PCs isn't that big a deal. One trick to dealing with it is to give the players non-combat magical gear and make it difficult to liquidate (or not worthwhile). This depends on your players though. For instance, one of my favorite magic items is the Robe of Useful Items. It wont really break the game if I have one, or if I don't, but its useful to keep arround so I wouldn't sell it. If the PCs get too powerful, giving them utility items, and then making oportunities to use them so they keep them, are important.
Or the guy who killed him.
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You took my answer!
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In my group, we have an agreement that if a player chooses to make a new character after death, all of his gear minus healing items, mundane (ie. not magical) items, and plot/storyline items are burned and/or buried with the corpse.
And Neko, any of my characters would have killed that other player's character long ago. I'm surprised anyone in your group can stand him, because we tend to stop inviting people like that to our games. Seriously though, we all play the game to have fun, and being an obnoxious moron that only hinders the party is way out of line. How does he convince everyone else to get him True Resurrected and give him more treasure? He seems to be using D&D as some weird fetish fulfillment, hoarding his power and charisma over imaginary characters...
now that i remember, i die an average of twice per campaign, once at 7th level, once at 12th, skipping these milestones negates those deaths. the only other person who really dies is aaron, and he begs for true ressurections through whining and harassment. everybody else seems pretty much immortal. so he only gets to loot about 2 maybe 3 pcs per campaign. any other characters i use are 1 week stand ins because i lost my sheet. and those are rare. so most of the organs he sells comes from dead humanoid monsters.