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So a Druid is able to assume the form of an animal.
Questions:
1. His stats remain the same (int, wis, con, cha)?
2. depending on the size of the animal then he either gains +dex or +str?
3. The number of attacks is dependent on the animal chosen? Ie, do you get the number of attacks of the animal (so if it only has tail - then one attack, if it has bite/talons/claw, then up to 4 attacks)?
3a. If you get the attacks, then normal restrictions? Ie, move, only one attack, not move then all attacks?
4. AC - You lose Armor you wear (it melds with you), but yo still get deflection, and Natural armor bonuses (plus any bonus to natural armor for the beast shape). These bonuses are applied to your base 10 AC and dex?
Am I missing anything else?
Sorry if these are "dumb" questions, but this is my first druid since Version 1 and many things have changed, so I'm still getting my head around the rules and my druid just made 4th level and I want to ensure that I'm morphing him right.
Thanks!
Pretty much. Remember you also get any special abilities that wildshape of that level gives, and that wild armor will stick with you even in wildshape (personally I would allow it for the shape spells too, but that's not RAW).
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What I do not understand is if the natural armor bonus stacks with the natural armor bonus of the creature whose form you take. I am also not too clear on the whole "you keep your stats" aspect.
It sounds like you keep most of your stats (as miniaturepeddler says), but you just gain the movement and attack of the animal. Your stats get slightly improved by Beast Shape, but you lose a lot of your armor bonus, and you may not get nearly as much of a Natural Armor bonus as the Animal whose form you've taken.
For example, if a druid uses beast shape a become a Dire Bear, a Large Animal (Pathfinder Bestiary p.31), you end up with only a +4 to Natural Armor, not a +8, correct? Also, even with a +4 to your strength, you are not going to have anywhere near the strength of a Dire Bear, and you lose two points of Dex, so your AC goes down by at least one right there.
It sounds like when you use Beast Shape, you may end up as a very weak form of the animal whose form you've taken?
Is that correct?
It sounds like when you use Beast Shape, you may end up as a very weak form of the animal whose form you've taken?Is that correct?
Yes, that is correct. You'll have to build you stats and magic items to be oriented towards melee, if that's the route you go.
What I do not understand is if the natural armor bonus stacks with the natural armor bonus of the creature whose form you take.
Is that correct?
From what I read barkskin specificly says it stacks with other forms of natural armor. Neither Amulet of Natural Armor nor the Wildshape abilities say the same thing. I had thought I read that natural armor stacks with itself in general but I am not able to find the rule right now that I had thought I had read.
Barkskin provides an Enhancement bonus to natural armor, so it works with natural armor in general, but won't stack with itself or other enhancements to natural armor. This is akin to magical armor that also has an enhancement bonus. Plate mail with a +1 Enhancement bonus grants a total of +10 armor bonus to AC. If the Plate mail is hit with a Magic Vestment +3, it only takes it to a +12 total armor bonus as the Magic Vestment won't stack with the armor's enhancement bonus, since both are enhancement bonuses. Barkskin works the same as Magic Vestment except it applies to natural armor and not 'armor' armor.
Note that an Amulet of Natural Armor also provides an enhancement bonus to natural armor, so it won't stack with barkskin.
You do not keep any natural armor bonus you have from your own natural armor while wild shaped.
Barkskin is an enhancement bonus to your natural armor bonus so it would continue to function, as would the amulet of natural armor (which is also an enhancement bonus so it won't stack with barkskin).
To clarify:
If a troglodyte Druid wild shaped it would lose its normal +6 natural armor bonus (since that is based on its natural form) and gain whatever natural armor bonus it gets for the wild shape it is using. It would also lose its normal natural weapons and gain those of the shape it is taking.
If the troglodyte had cast barkskin it would continue to gain the bonus from the spell even while wild shaping.
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3. The number of attacks is dependent on the animal chosen? Ie, do you get the number of attacks of the animal (so if it only has tail - then one attack, if it has bite/talons/claw, then up to 4 attacks)?
I am confused by this since no were in wild shape nor in the beast/dragon/plant/elemental shape spells does it say you get the attacks of the animal. I am curious about this since I may have a druid in my upcoming game.
It's in the Magic section under polymorph which is in the transmtation school description:
"In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses."
okay thank you one more thing it states that if the spell changes your size then you adjust your stats according to the spell. if a medium druid wild shapes into a medium creature i am assuming they do not get the +2 str and +2 nat armor because they didn't change size. is this correct because that is how it reads?
No. It states you get the stat adjustment from the spell. So even if you are medium if you change to a medium animal you would still gain the bonuses for the medium animal.
The only time there will be any variation from this is if you start out either larger than medium or smaller than small... then there is a chart in the polymorph section that explains how to adjust to either small or medium and then you apply the spell effects.
"If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell."
this is both PFRPD and how it is written in the core. it states IF a polymorph spell causes you to change size. see this is were I am confused because I keep seeing how most people say you get the bonus even though that is contrary to what the RAW says.
I would go with specific spell over general statements here:
"When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the animal type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent.
Small animal: If the form you take is that of a Small animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.
Medium animal: If the form you take is that of a Medium animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus."
It states that if you take the form you gain the bonus, so my reading is that the spell specifically states you get the bonus.
but if we go with the specific spell and not the general statements then you would not get the natural attacks of the animal since neither wild shape nor any of the beast/dragon/etc. shape spells say you get them. they only say you get the listed abilities if the creature has them.
I see were my confusion is coming from. people see that under the magic section under transmutation in the polymorph section it states the when you are effected by a polymorph spell you get the natural attacks of the creature. then they are ignoring the part were it states you only change your bonuses if you change size.
Ie. it would seem people are only paying attention to what gives them bonuses. I thank you for your help I understand how it works now.
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but if we go with the specific spell and not the general statements then you would not get the natural attacks of the animal since neither wild shape nor any of the beast/dragon/etc. shape spells say you get them. they only say you get the listed abilities if the creature has them.
I see were my confusion is coming from. people see that under the magic section under transmutation in the polymorph section it states the when you are effected by a polymorph spell you get the natural attacks of the creature. then they are ignoring the part were it states you only change your bonuses if you change size.
Ie. it would seem people are only paying attention to what gives them bonuses. I thank you for your help I understand how it works now.
The spell does not mention anything at all about natural attacks (special abilities are a specifically different category) therefore the description given in the spell school applies.
The part about gaining ability modifiers based on the size of what you change into is mentioned in the spell, therefore the spell takes precedence over the spell school description.That's the difference, not which thing provides bonuses.
except that the description in the spell school clearly states that you only get the bonus to stats if you change size.
"If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell"
I get the fact that you would get the +2 natural armor (medium in beast shape I) but the text clearly states that your states are not modified by this change (IE change in size) unless noted by the spell. if you do not change size you do not change stats.
if this were not the case then the last sentence "Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell" should have read like this "Your ability scores are not modified unless noted by the spell"
or like this "Your ability scores are modified by the spell" but since it is written the way it is the intent would seem to be that a creature changing from their base size to the same size creature only gets the bonus to natural armor and not the stat adjustment.
Three things:
1 - The spell school description does not say anything whatsoever about only gaining stats when you change size. It in fact says quite the opposite - that your ability scores don't change even if you change size unless the spell says otherwise. Remember that in any context other than spells, changing size has automatic effects of your ability scores.
2 - The line that you quote begins "If a polymorph spell causes you to change size". So if you change from a medium human into a medium animal with Beast Shape 1, and have not changed size, why are you worried about something that tells you what doesn't happen when you do change size?
3 - Also note that in the description of Beast Shape 1, the entry under medium animal does not mention changing size, it instead says "if the form you take...".
except that the description in the spell school clearly states that you only get the bonus to stats if you change size.
"If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell"
The size modifiers mentioned in this sentence are those who specifically change AC, Attack Bonus, CMB/CMD and Stealth.
Basically, those who say:
Large-sized: -1 AC, -1 hit, +1 CMB/CMD, -4 Stealth, (-2 Fly)
Huge-sized: -2 AC, -2 hit, +2 CMB/CMD, -8 Stealth, (-4 Fly)
and so on.
Other changes are spell-appropriate - for example, with Beast Shape I, a Medium-sized animal form grants you a +2 size bonus to Strength (regardless of your original form - but if you are smaller than Small or larger than Medium, you have first to 'convert' your stats using the Conversion Table mentioned by Abraham spalding under the general Polymorphing rules), while with Form of the Dragon I, a Medium-sized Dragon form grants you a +4 size bonus to Strength and a +2 size bonus to Constitution.
i have also a question on the same subject of wild shape. When you while shape, do you also get the Type of the creature (as in Elemental or Plant) or are you still your base race?
Your type doesn't change.
After going back and reading the polymorph section and wild shape and BS1 it doesn't say you don't so I would assume you do gain the type of the creature you turn into.
i have also a question on the same subject of wild shape. When you while shape, do you also get the Type of the creature (as in Elemental or Plant) or are you still your base race?Your type doesn't change.
If that is true I must not of looked hard enough for that rule.
If that is true I must not of looked hard enough for that rule.i have also a question on the same subject of wild shape. When you while shape, do you also get the Type of the creature (as in Elemental or Plant) or are you still your base race?Your type doesn't change.
But then I guess with polymorph spells it always seems you get what it says you get so since it doesn't come out and say you change your type you don't. I really dislike it when I have to read rules and take them for what I can do instead of what I can't do.
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here is a question i have about wildshape. So a high level druid can change into a huge size animal, can that druid turn into a huge size wolf or any other medium or large sized creature but only making it huge or larger than it med or large size is?
Rephrased: can a druid wildshape into a larger sized version of a animal, larger than normal for that animals species.
I want a druid that wildshapes into a huge bear. Not a large bear.
Dragonine the spells give a list of what you get instead of what you don't get. If it's not listed as something you get then you don't get it. This is because a list of benefits is easier to put together in this case than a list of exclusions.
bigkilla -- On a technical level you can't polymorph into anything that has a template on it. Since the only bears present currently (due to the lack of space in the bestiary) are large you would need either an advanced bear or some other template to get what you want. However if your DM states that say a polar bear is a huge creature then you could wildshape into a polar bear (if your druid is familiar with polar bears) when you gain the ability to change into huge sized animals.
except that the description in the spell school clearly states that you only get the bonus to stats if you change size.
The size modifiers mentioned in this sentence are those who specifically change AC, Attack Bonus, CMB/CMD and Stealth.
Basically, those who say:
Large-sized: -1 AC, -1 hit, +1 CMB/CMD, -4 Stealth, (-2 Fly)
Huge-sized: -2 AC, -2 hit, +2 CMB/CMD, -8 Stealth, (-4 Fly)Other changes are spell-appropriate - for example, with Beast Shape I, a Medium-sized animal form grants you a +2 size bonus to Strength (regardless of your original form - but if you are smaller than Small or larger than Medium, you have first to 'convert' your stats using the Conversion Table mentioned by Abraham spalding under the general Polymorphing rules), while with Form of the Dragon I, a Medium-sized Dragon form grants you a +4 size bonus to Strength and a +2 size bonus to Constitution.
Exactly. To further explain this, the "Size Bonus" mentioned in each spell applies only to STATS (STR, DEX, CON) is effectively independent of the modifers to AC, Attack Bonus, CMB/CMD and Stealth dependent on your effective Size. Even though STR/DEX can effect your attack bonus, AC, CMB/CMD, the "Size Bonus" modifiers to STATS effecively STACK with the modifiers dependent on effective Size Category. If that makes sense.
Honestly, it would be alot more clear if "Size Bonus" was just re-named "Polymorph Bonus" since you can gain it while being the exact same "Size" (Medium, for example) as you were before the Polymorph effect, and said stat bonuses are essentially independent (though stacking with) the modifiers depending on your effective Size Category.
One thing not being mentioned here is that each Polymorph school spell (Beast Shape 2, Form of Dragon 1...) contains a list of abilities it CAN grant in addition to the "Size Bonus" modifier to stats, but you only gain the abilities from that list IF the form you are polymorphing into has them. E.g. Beast Shape CAN grant the following abilities: . But you are VERY unlikely to get ALL of them, you only gain the ones that the form you are choosing naturally has.
Vice versa, you can change into ANY form/creature you want (or that you know, depending on GM) that fits into the allowed creature size (Small, Medium, Large, etc) but you only gain it's abilities that are listed on the chart. An interesting example is that Elementals are immune to FLANKING, but this is NEVER granted by ANY Elemental Body spell (just immunity to Sneak Attacks and Crits) - so attackers CAN gain the +2 bonus for Flanking Elemental Body-Wild Shaped Druids, but not against real Elementals.
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So on your Answer, If say my druid was wild shaping in to an Elemental or a plant yet get none of the traits of it type or subtype either, would I be effected by spells that effect Elementals or Plants or even Animals? I ask because on thing in the druid class made me ponder this.
"Resist Nature’s Lure (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a druid
gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like
and supernatural abilities of fey. This bonus also applies
to spells and effects that utilize or target plants, such as
blight, entangle, spike growth, and warp wood."
Why would a druid be effected by Blight? It's a spell that only effects plants and a druid wild shape isn't a plant since it gains no traits of the creature including it's type and weakness.
If this is what i am getting then spells, abilities, and/or attacks that could effect one of these types, would not effect a druid in wild since he a basic race.
Anyone able to give an answer to this.
Also note; If your going to tell me that your still Effected, you can't have it both ways. You get all the weaknesses but none of the benefits? It's either all or nothing...
So on your Answer, If say my druid was wild shaping in to an Elemental or a plant yet get none of the traits of it type or subtype either, would I be effected by spells that effect Elementals or Plants or even Animals? I ask because on thing in the druid class made me ponder this.
"Resist Nature’s Lure (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a druid
gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like
and supernatural abilities of fey. This bonus also applies
to spells and effects that utilize or target plants, such as
blight, entangle, spike growth, and warp wood."Why would a druid be effected by Blight? It's a spell that only effects plants and a druid wild shape isn't a plant since it gains no traits of the creature including it's type and weakness.
You know what, that's a very good question. I'm guessing it's highly likely it's Errata (since in 3.5 you DID become a plant, elemental, animal, etc.) The ability is still useful of course, but I don't see the reason you would be vulnerable to blight, warp wood, etc, under the new Polymorph rules.
I'm posting this to the Errata thread.
I'm with Dwraith on this. The self-polymorph spells (and wildshape) seem to list a fixed set of abilities, and can lead to strange situations.
The follow-up on this is additional monsters with new abilities, which won't be reflected by the spells.
An idea it gives me is to list the monsters' abilities (universal monster rules?) and give them a "level." Then, in the spells, just say "this spell can grant all abilities of level L and lower"
$0.02
Dragonine the spells give a list of what you get instead of what you don't get. If it's not listed as something you get then you don't get it. This is because a list of benefits is easier to put together in this case than a list of exclusions.
I know why. I just don't like it. It is counter intuitive to how I think. :P
Why would a druid be effected by Blight? It's a spell that only effects plants and a druid wild shape isn't a plant since it gains no traits of the creature including it's type and weakness.
If this is what i am getting then spells, abilities, and/or attacks that could effect one of these types, would not effect a druid in wild since he a basic race.
Anyone able to give an answer to this.
Also note; If your going to tell me that your still Effected, you can't have it both ways. You get all the weaknesses but none of the benefits? It's either all or nothing...
If you are not that type you can not gain any weaknesses that are not stated in the spell itself. It works both ways. My answer for the blight question is that maybe your druid was a plant type creature in the first place such as a Treant druid...and maybe I might give a dryad druid's tree her save to save from blight too.
bigkilla -- On a technical level you can't polymorph into anything that has a template on it.Where does it say that?
I'd allow it, within reason (e.g. no applying a multi-headed template to get a bear with a thousand heads).
I was hoping someone would ask that!
Source: Magic Section Spell descriptions Schools of magic, Transmutation: Polymorph subschool 4th paragraph 3rd sentence:
"Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature."
Right there :D
As a matter of fact, I would recommend that anyone concerned about this discussion and these spells re-read the full Polymorph subschool entry each time you try to figure out how one of the spells works. Most of the questions and concerns presented here are answered quite directly in that section.
An idea it gives me is to list the monsters' abilities (universal monster rules?) and give them a "level." Then, in the spells, just say "this spell can grant all abilities of level L and lower"
That would have been a very interesting design approach. A given Bestiary monster may have abilities of different "Polymorph Ranks", but you only gain the monster abilities up to the Polymorph Rank justified by the Spell you are using. Any new abilities would have a Polymorph Rank listed in their description. Just about perfect, except that you have to look up the ranking of every ability rather than know what you get just by looking at the spell (which you need to just for the Stat Bonus), but it seems a bit smoother over all, and the rankings could be in-line with the abilities right in the statblock (which you need to check anyways for weapon damage and to see what abilities are potentially available in that form), with little (*P1, *P2, etc) superscripts indicating the ranking. I like.
"Resist Nature’s Lure (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a druid
gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like
and supernatural abilities of fey. This bonus also applies
to spells and effects that utilize or target plants, such as
blight, entangle, spike growth, and warp wood."Why would a druid be effected by Blight? It's a spell that only effects plants and a druid wild shape isn't a plant since it gains no traits of the creature including it's type and weakness.
If this is what i am getting then spells, abilities, and/or attacks that could effect one of these types, would not effect a druid in wild since he a basic race.
I realized: the bonus applies to Druids who ALREADY are plant type creatures.
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All of this sounds super complex, but it isn't really once you lay the foundation down.
I utilized 3 x 5 cards for this information. Once I determined my race and class *druid obviously*, I noted the racial abilities that I lost when wildshaping. These include Ex: and Su: abilities that depend on the original form, such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision. You also lose any natural attacks and movement types you had. You also lose any class features that depend upon form. You might need to talk to your dm to determine all of these, if you're multiclassing heavily.
I put all that on one card and labeled it "What I lose"
Then, I made up a few cards for the specific creatures that I would want to change into. Each creature had its own card, and these listed all the benefits I would receive from changing into that creature. Each time I gained access to a new level of wildshape that increased the abilities I had access to, I'd go add them where relevant to those creatures.
An example of such a card follows:
Form: Bat (Dim) <---size
+6 dex
-4 str
+1 NA
size to ac +4
size to ab +4
size to cmb +4
size to stealth +12
blindsense 20
low-light vision
speed 5ft, fly 40ft
Bite (primary) 1d3 + str
It does require some paging back and forth, but if you do each section by itself *such as your eight or however many animal cards you want* it speeds things up.
Stat bonuses from the spells. Then size modifiers. Then abilities that carry over from the beast shape lists. Then abilities from the polymorph section.
On a side note about size effects and the stat bonuses in the polymorph spells, here's the reason why you keep the bonuses on medium creatures.
Polymorph entry pg 212:
If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, combat maneuver bonus, and stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.
All of this text is relevant only if the spell causes you to change size. If it doesn't cause you to change size, then you just follow the details of the spell.
You're interpreting this paragraph to include when you stay the same, but clearly that isn't covered due to the section I bolded.
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I realized: the bonus applies to Druids who ALREADY are plant type creatures."Resist Nature’s Lure (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a druid
gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like
and supernatural abilities of fey. This bonus also applies
to spells and effects that utilize or target plants, such as
blight, entangle, spike growth, and warp wood."Why would a druid be effected by Blight? It's a spell that only effects plants and a druid wild shape isn't a plant since it gains no traits of the creature including it's type and weakness.
If this is what i am getting then spells, abilities, and/or attacks that could effect one of these types, would not effect a druid in wild since he a basic race.
Quandary - with regard to Warp Wood, wouldn't the druid gain a +4 to the Will save for an object he was holding/wielding? So, for example, the wooden shield that a druid is holding is targeted with a Warp Wood spell. He gets a Will save at +4 for the item he's holding not to be affected. No?
Quandary - with regard to Warp Wood, wouldn't the druid gain a +4 to the Will save for an object he was holding/wielding? So, for example, the wooden shield that a druid is holding is targeted with a Warp Wood spell. He gets a Will save at +4 for the item he's holding not to be affected. No?I realized: the bonus applies to Druids who ALREADY are plant type creatures."Resist Nature’s Lure (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a druid
gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like
and supernatural abilities of fey. This bonus also applies
to spells and effects that utilize or target plants, such as
blight, entangle, spike growth, and warp wood."Why would a druid be effected by Blight? It's a spell that only effects plants and a druid wild shape isn't a plant since it gains no traits of the creature including it's type and weakness.
If this is what i am getting then spells, abilities, and/or attacks that could effect one of these types, would not effect a druid in wild since he a basic race.
I dont think warpwood used like that utilizes or targets plants, though I will leave it to dm's discretion.
An idea it gives me is to list the monsters' abilities (universal monster rules?) and give them a "level." Then, in the spells, just say "this spell can grant all abilities of level L and lower"That would have been a very interesting design approach. A given Bestiary monster may have abilities of different "Polymorph Ranks", but you only gain the monster abilities up to the Polymorph Rank justified by the Spell you are using. Any new abilities would have a Polymorph Rank listed in their description. Just about perfect, except that you have to look up the ranking of every ability rather than know what you get just by looking at the spell (which you need to just for the Stat Bonus), but it seems a bit smoother over all, and the rankings could be in-line with the abilities right in the statblock (which you need to check anyways for weapon damage and to see what abilities are potentially available in that form), with little (*P1, *P2, etc) superscripts indicating the ranking. I like.
On the same vein, I thought it would be a rather straightforward to be able to wildshape and gain all the powers/vulnerabilities of an animal with a CR of (druid level -3). Or maybe base it off of hit dice rather than CR.
Hmm for scaling maybe 1/2 druid level.
No gaining of feats- just the stuff like poison, grab, pounce etc- the movements, and senses.
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So a Druid is able to assume the form of an animal.
Hello. Welcome to the moot. Please leave your sanity at the door.
Questions:
1. His stats remain the same (int, wis, con, cha)?
-yup
2. depending on the size of the animal then he either gains +dex or +str?
-Yes. It is a size bonus. The good news is that it stacks with almost everything. Turning into a bear and then casting bulls strength on yourself is a nice way to start dealing some damage.
3. The number of attacks is dependent on the animal chosen? Ie, do you get the number of attacks of the animal (so if it only has tail - then one attack, if it has bite/talons/claw, then up to 4 attacks)?
-yes. Which means you should look for critters with lots of attacks.
The one thing to watch out for here is rake. Its a special ability, not an attack, and you don't get it until you use beastshape III at 8th level.
3a. If you get the attacks, then normal restrictions? Ie, move, only one attack, not move then all attacks?
-Yes, unless your form has pounce and you are using beast shape II at 6th level you can only move and attack once.
4. AC - You lose Armor you wear (it melds with you), but yo still get deflection, and Natural armor bonuses (plus any bonus to natural armor for the beast shape). These bonuses are applied to your base 10 AC and dex?
You loose the bonus from armor, the bonus from the enhancement bonus to armor.. so if you're wearing hide armor +3 you loose the 4 from the armor and the 3 from the enhancement bonus.
So don't invest a lot in armor... UNLESS, and this is a very under utilized option, you largely stick with one animal form. Get the armor made for that form (the double cost is trivial compared to masterwork/magic) and have party members assist you with putting it on.
The wizard in particular will be quite happy to have one of his meatshields getting an extra layer of protection.
Am I missing anything else?
Sorry if these are "dumb" questions, but this is my first druid since Version 1 and many things have changed, so I'm still getting my head around the rules and my druid just made 4th level and I want to ensure that I'm morphing him right.
-There are dumb questions. these aren't it. The druid is probably the most complex class and hardest to play well, even with the rule changes. I highly recommend you look under the Polymorph section of transmutation. There's more there about how beast shape works than in beast shape. ... i'll save you the trouble. The important thing to note here is that you do gain the base form of whatever it is you turn into.
Transmutation druid secrets
Polymorph: A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +20 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.
In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.
If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.
Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell.
Creature's Original Size Str Dex Con Adjusted Size
Fine +6 –6 — Small
Diminutive +6 –4 — Small
Tiny +4 –2 — Small
Large –4 +2 –2 Medium
Huge –8 +4 –4 Medium
Gargantuan –12 +4 –6 Medium
Colossal –16 +4 –8 Medium
Thanks!
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Sorry to bump an old thread, but what I've learned here is that it's absurdly silly to do anything other than change into a bird and fly around and cast spells using Natural Spell.
Or use the animal form as a disguise to spy on things.
Or change into a aquatic creature to, say, cross a river.
Otherwise, wildshape is pretty terrible. Cadwin the Druid can change into a dire bear! Only it's a dire bear that is as weak as Cadwin the Druid (Str 10), with a +4 size modifier to strength. A 14 strength Dire Bear. Whoopee.
Pretty bad ability, honestly. Sadface.
Sorry to bump an old thread, but what I've learned here is that it's absurdly silly to do anything other than change into a bird and fly around and cast spells using Natural Spell.
Or use the animal form as a disguise to spy on things.
Or change into a aquatic creature to, say, cross a river.
Otherwise, wildshape is pretty terrible. Cadwin the Druid can change into a dire bear! Only it's a dire bear that is as weak as Cadwin the Druid (Str 10), with a +4 size modifier to strength. A 14 strength Dire Bear. Whoopee.
Pretty bad ability, honestly. Sadface.
Wild Shape will help a druidic caster be more awesome, and it will help a druidic fighter be awesome, but it won't make a caster into an awesome fighter. And there's nothing bad about that.
See this guide
If anyone's interested, I threw together a short guide to wild shape options. Just for my own reference when playing my druid, but I figured someone might find it useful (or violently disagree).
It's just for the beast shapes, and only for the bestiary. I tried going over the bestiary II, but found I couldn't be bothered. :)
I was wondering what's up with the horse hoof attacks though. If you wildshape into a horse form, you don't get the docile special quality. But on the other hand, hoofs are always secondary attacks, so I assume that's also the case for druids.
So a Druid is able to assume the form of an animal.
Questions:
1. His stats remain the same (int, wis, con, cha)?Thanks!
All his mental stats stay the same, only physical stats change.
the reason i say this is because you have Con in your list and some elementals get a Con bonus. (elemental body)
If anyone's interested, I threw together a short guide to wild shape options. Just for my own reference when playing my druid, but I figured someone might find it useful (or violently disagree).
It's just for the beast shapes, and only for the bestiary. I tried going over the bestiary II, but found I couldn't be bothered. :)
I was wondering what's up with the horse hoof attacks though. If you wildshape into a horse form, you don't get the docile special quality. But on the other hand, hoofs are always secondary attacks, so I assume that's also the case for druids.
there is a major flaw in you list (or i am misreading something in your doc), but a druid cannot change in magical beasts like a Cockatrice and the Darkmantle.
page 51 core book under Wildshape "Her options for new forms include
all creatures with the animal type."
its the same reason we don't get beastshape IV, because that only adds Tiny and Large magical beasts
there is a major flaw in you list (or i am misreading something in your doc), but a druid cannot change in magical beasts like a Cockatrice and the Darkmantle.page 51 core book under Wildshape "Her options for new forms include
all creatures with the animal type."its the same reason we don't get beastshape IV, because that only adds Tiny and Large magical beasts
Oh, all right. Fair enough.
I don't think I'd call that a "major flaw" though, since all the magical beast shapes are pretty useless anyway. :)
there is a major flaw in you list (or i am misreading something in your doc), but a druid cannot change in magical beasts like a Cockatrice and the Darkmantle.page 51 core book under Wildshape "Her options for new forms include
all creatures with the animal type."its the same reason we don't get beastshape IV, because that only adds Tiny and Large magical beasts
Oh, all right. Fair enough.
I don't think I'd call that a "major flaw" though, since all the magical beast shapes are pretty useless anyway. :)
yeah i never quite understood what use Beastshape IV and III are when you don't get the special attacks of the magical beasts...
Bestiary has some nifty beasts you are missing btw. A large rhino with 4d8 and a huge hippo with 4d8 (good for DR and vital strike!) and since both are the only attack they have you get 1,5 your strenght :D
Bestiary has some nifty beasts you are missing btw. A large rhino with 4d8 and a huge hippo with 4d8 (good for DR and vital strike!) and since both are the only attack they have you get 1,5 your strenght :D
Are those from bestiary II? The rhino in the bestiary only has a 2d6 gore attack, and there are no hippoes.
I didn't include anything from bestiary II (yet).
Oh, and I appreciate the feedback btw. Had completely missed the Magical Beast thing. :)