The Norse lived in an abusive environment.
The climate was trying to kill them.
Nature was trying to kill them.
Their neighbors were trying to kill them.
Of course their gods did nasty things.
Odin was trying to survive too.
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One way out of defining one alignment for a god is to allow the worshippers to focus on particular aspects of the god to worship. Thus for a god like Odin, the berserkers and knowledge seekers can worship different aspects with different alignments of the one Odin. Everyone's happy - until they start arguing which is the "one true way". Scisms can be a great source of adventure ideas.
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If you're looking for some good books that use the Norse pantheon, then my two favorites are Sleipnir, by Linda Evans, which is best described as "Mack Bolan storms Valhalla in order to kill Odin" and Pyramid Power, by Eric Flint and David Freer, where an alien probe starts re-empowering the Norse gods in order to use them to help conquer the Earth.
Of the two, Pyramid Power is the better read. It takes a lighter, more "Hercules: the Legendary Journeys" tone to the characterization of the gods, while Sleipnir is darker in tone and plays them pretty straight.
..and no one has mentioned Gaiman's "American Gods" !!
One way out of defining one alignment for a god is to allow the worshippers to focus on particular aspects of the god to worship. Thus for a god like Odin, the berserkers and knowledge seekers can worship different aspects with different alignments of the one Odin. Everyone's happy - until they start arguing which is the "one true way". Scisms can be a great source of adventure ideas.
The true believers will claim the 'evil' acts of their diety were actually demons or a trickster god(poor Loki) posing as the diety.
That's what Dogma is for.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
While not for a Nordic culture, I have been toying with an idea of allowing Barbarians to chose a totem animal.
A beast totem Barbarian (bear, boar or wolf for the animal, though it would not matter in mechanical terms) would seem to reflect Old Norse berserker flavor fairly well.
While not for a Nordic culture, I have been toying with an idea of allowing Barbarians to chose a totem animal.A beast totem Barbarian (bear, boar or wolf for the animal, though it would not matter in mechanical terms) would seem to reflect Old Norse berserker flavor fairly well.
I just reflavored the Barbarian and called it Berserker. Take the primitive culture flavor out of it and it suits a lot of cultures/situations really well. Especially the Norse setting.
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The Norse were big into Fox and Raven as well ;)
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One way out of defining one alignment for a god is to allow the worshippers to focus on particular aspects of the god to worship. Thus for a god like Odin, the berserkers and knowledge seekers can worship different aspects with different alignments of the one Odin. Everyone's happy - until they start arguing which is the "one true way". Scisms can be a great source of adventure ideas.
The true believers will claim the 'evil' acts of their diety were actually demons or a trickster god(poor Loki) posing as the diety.
That's what Dogma is for.
We berserkers worship the true Odin, those that call him the "God of Magic" are clearly heretical or deluded, nothing a few smacks round the head won't fix.
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Ther Berserkers or Bearmen are wonderbar but...
“The wolf that one hears is worse than the orc that one fears.”
J.R.R. Toklien
The Úlfhéðnar (singular Úlfhéðinn), mentioned in the Vatnsdœla saga, Haraldskvæði and the Völsunga saga, were said to wear the pelt of a wolf when they entered battle.[1] Úlfhéðnar are sometimes described as Odin's special warriors, with the pelt from a wolf and a spear as distinguishing features.
Úlfhéðnar(ool-fed-nar), Úlfhéðinn(ool-fed-nn)
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One way out of defining one alignment for a god is to allow the worshippers to focus on particular aspects of the god to worship. Thus for a god like Odin, the berserkers and knowledge seekers can worship different aspects with different alignments of the one Odin. Everyone's happy - until they start arguing which is the "one true way". Scisms can be a great source of adventure ideas.
The true believers will claim the 'evil' acts of their diety were actually demons or a trickster god(poor Loki) posing as the diety.
That's what Dogma is for.We berserkers worship the true Odin, those that call him the "God of Magic" are clearly heretical or deluded, nothing a few smacks round the head won't fix.
Berserkers didn't really differentiate between magic and what they do. There wasn't/isn't any inconsistency between magic and other ecstatic states. Both Vitki (Rune-Wizards) and Berserkers were considered dangerous, amoral, and Odin's folk, I believe-- but useful to have on your side.
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I was thinking what might have happened if there was no Christianity. A thought is that the cult of Isis may have made its way north and Isis might have gotten worked into the Norse mythology.
But it could be interesting if the Isis worshippers take a different approach to magic than the Odin worshippers. I've also been reading a lot of philosophy recently, and think medieval Aesir-worshippers would be a lot more existential than the medieval Christians were, and that medieval Isis-worshippers would be more like Hegelian idealists.
The way I would see it playing out would be that the Odinist wizards would see magic as manipulating forces and power ("I'll blast him with my Rune of Evocation and then transmute the rock he falls on to mud"). The Isisian witches would see magic as manipulating forms and patterns ("By wrapping this string around this figure, I will bind him with immobile magical bonds.")
Maybe I'm thinking too much.
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The way I would see it playing out would be that the Odinist wizards would see magic as manipulating forces and power ("I'll blast him with my Rune of Evocation and then transmute the rock he falls on to mud"). The Isisian witches would see magic as manipulating forms and patterns ("By wrapping this string around this figure, I will bind him with immobile magical bonds.")
That characterization makes it sound like the Odinists would be more reductionistic, all about breaking down things into discrete chunks (including their understanding of magic), while the Isisians would be more holistic and concentrate on where stuff fits within the bigger picture. Each 'rune' represents tearing a concept out of the bigger picture and trying to understand it separately, absent of context, which, to the big-picture-fans, would be missing the point utterly.
Neat.
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Makes an interesting idea for a PF game where a secret cult worships a good god in an evil way, and it is slowly corrupting the faith's church. From a relativistic perspective, it could corrupt the god as well!
Turning that around, there could be good worshippers of the individual Zon-Kuthon was before he travelled into the dark and became corrupted, hoping to redeem their god through their pure faith in the individual he used to be.
Similarly, the last worshippers of Aroden might feel that if they give up, then Aroden really does die, as only the lack of worshippers could cause him to truly dissipate beyond recovery.
But, ideally, gods derive power from multiple sources, and not just worship, so the gods wouldn't be entirely dependent upon worshippers (or subject to the whims of their changing faithful). Some seem to gain power from natural forces (the sun, weather, darkness) or emotional extremes or behaviors (lust, bloodlust, chivalry) or higher principles (beauty, honor, community).
If it was all about numbers, Lamashtu would likely be the most powerful of the 'big 20' gods, with much of the races of goblins, gnolls and minotaurs, under her sway, and the faster goblins live and die, the more souls would enter her domain, making her, perversely, more powerful for choosing shorter-lived worshippers, than, say, Calistria or Torag, with their long-lived elven and dwarven followers.
Sarenrae would be right up there, too, as it's implied that the Kelish society to the east of the map past Qadira is freakishly large, and that Qadira is considered by the greater culture to be a backwater, as Sargava is considered by Cheliax. And yet, just because Sarenrae likely has *millions* of followers, and Desna might be lucky to have thousands, I don't think it follows that Sarenrae is necessarily dozens of times more powerful than Desna.
The idea that 'some souls are worth more than others' is pretty much offensive no matter how you slice it (since elven, fey, giantish and dragon worshippers would have to be 'worth more' than humans, or else the elven, fey, giantish and draconic gods would be feeble little demigods compared to the human gods, and human souls would have to be worth more than shorter-lived orcish, gnollish and goblin souls, or else Gruumsh, Yeenoghu and Maglubiyet would have been the dominant dieties of the last twenty years of D&D, not losers like Lolth, with a relatively small and long-lived worshipperbase, compared to them), and the notion that every time an Iomedan Paladin kills a Lamashtu cultist she's *increasing the power of evil,* is equally lopsided, so the notion that gods derive power from worship in any sort of mathematical manner falls apart under examination.
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The way I would see it playing out would be that the Odinist wizards would see magic as manipulating forces and power ("I'll blast him with my Rune of Evocation and then transmute the rock he falls on to mud"). The Isisian witches would see magic as manipulating forms and patterns ("By wrapping this string around this figure, I will bind him with immobile magical bonds.")That characterization makes it sound like the Odinists would be more reductionistic, all about breaking down things into discrete chunks (including their understanding of magic), while the Isisians would be more holistic and concentrate on where stuff fits within the bigger picture. Each 'rune' represents tearing a concept out of the bigger picture and trying to understand it separately, absent of context, which, to the big-picture-fans, would be missing the point utterly.
Neat.
From what I understand, there might not be as much difference between them as you might think.
Both Norse and Egyptian magic relied upon using thru speech or writing words (or runes) of power. Also, both Norse and Egyptian magic was entirely the province of women, Odin's ability to use magic was another example of his breaking the rules to benefit himself.
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The way I would see it playing out would be that the Odinist wizards would see magic as manipulating forces and power ("I'll blast him with my Rune of Evocation and then transmute the rock he falls on to mud"). The Isisian witches would see magic as manipulating forms and patterns ("By wrapping this string around this figure, I will bind him with immobile magical bonds.")That characterization makes it sound like the Odinists would be more reductionistic, all about breaking down things into discrete chunks (including their understanding of magic), while the Isisians would be more holistic and concentrate on where stuff fits within the bigger picture. Each 'rune' represents tearing a concept out of the bigger picture and trying to understand it separately, absent of context, which, to the big-picture-fans, would be missing the point utterly.
Neat.
From what I understand, there might not be as much difference between them as you might think.
Both Norse and Egyptian magic relied upon using thru speech or writing words (or runes) of power. Also, both Norse and Egyptian magic was entirely the province of women, Odin's ability to use magic was another example of his breaking the rules to benefit himself.
You're referring to Odin's transvestism to obtain knowledge of Seidr (basically witchcraft or shamanic magic)-- the only other gods who knew it were female, notably Freya. But Vikti, Rune-magic, was either gender based. Odin undertook hanging from the world tree to learn that.
My thinking is also suggesting that in the alternate universe where the Isis cult gets incorporated into Norse myth, the cult might also expand to include male initiates, in order to allow it to better compete with alternative religions such as Mithraism and Manachianism.
But Odin would probably get blamed/credit for that, knowing him.
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My thinking is also suggesting that in the alternate universe where the Isis cult gets incorporated into Norse myth, the cult might also expand to include male initiates, in order to allow it to better compete with alternative religions such as Mithraism and Manachianism.
But Odin would probably get blamed/credit for that, knowing him.
Creepy possibility that the Odin tale of self-mutilation for power might be carried a step further and that male initiates might have to maim themselves in some way to qualify...
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Now just add keltic magic of Bards, Ovates and Druids...
My thinking is also suggesting that in the alternate universe where the Isis cult gets incorporated into Norse myth, the cult might also expand to include male initiates, in order to allow it to better compete with alternative religions such as Mithraism and Manachianism.
But Odin would probably get blamed/credit for that, knowing him.
Creepy possibility that the Odin tale of self-mutilation for power might be carried a step further and that male initiates might have to maim themselves in some way to qualify...
I wonder if this could be how the idea of becoming a eunuch caught on in the first place. It certainly would keep out the riff raff.
Odin was omnipotent.
The bawling that he stole the secret of magic from you in drag is just a case of his Karma running over your Dogma.
The game mechanics of one cult controlling all magic is unworkable in any case. They probably reinvented magic and then were angry when they saw everyone else using magic.
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Everyone is ignoring the fact that Odin was worshipped as a lawful of God. He was never worshipped as anything else. His non lawful side was like, oh, when Odid was young he did blh blah, The actual God the norse praised was lawful. It is perfectly reasonable that the norsemen would want thier king, to have been wild and crazy in younger days, but wise and lawful in his older days when he was king..
The problem everyone is doing is there are giving equal wait to temporal actions which is silly. It's like saying Malcom X should be NE because he spent most of young life in prison. Or saint paul should LE becuase he was saul before and took great pleasure in torturing christians, or than Satan should be Lawful Good because he was the highest Angel for a longer time than he was satan.
For a diety esp, it needs to be how the God was worship, when he was worship and what time period. The fact is ODIN is never worshipped as anything other than the lawful aloof king, because all his non laful actions are referred to as being past events.
This was probably beaten to death already, but...
Are you discussing gaming or real life?
The Vikings didn't start adopting the trappings of "civilized" living (including rigid nation states) until they started adopting Christianity. Their culture to that point is usually described as valuing strength and independence* (Cambridge History of Scandinavia). They were flexible*, adaptable* and tolerant of other cultures*. Any sort of central authority didn't start showing up in their society until they adopted Christianity and accepted the concept of the nation-state.
*(None of these are generally accepted as characteristics of a "lawful" culture in gaming terms).
Your assertion that Odin was "never worshiped as anything other than a Lawful aloof king" is completely culturally false. He was worshiped as what he was, the Patriarchal head of his clan, as the concept of the "Lawful king" wasn't part of the Scandinavian culture until the adoption of Christianity (and, therefore, after they stopped worshiping Odin all together).
Prior to the introduction of Christianity and the nation-state, Scandinavian culture was a loose association of patriarchal clans, who would occasionally band together to raid, or set up trading posts, without any adherence to a central political power, and usually out of simple need or boredom.
"Odin is an ambivalent deity. Old Norse (Viking Age) connotations of Odin lie with 'poetry, inspiration' as well as with 'fury, madness and the wanderer.'"**
**From several sources.
Odin, historically, and in the tales, is pretty clearly a "chaotic" being, with rigid adherence to anything being something he never exhibits. Whether he is "good" or "evil" probably depends on your point of view. He probably didn't seem like much of a force of good to a defenseless Christianized Saxon monastery brother as some berserk Viking ran him through shouting praises to Odin.
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The History channel said climate change forced the Vikings to start raiding. Also anybody they conquered they set up their culture and civilization. The Vikings and Christians were two conquering cultures that ran into each other. Mmmmmmmm... Medieval Risk. Yummy.
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Everyone is ignoring the fact that Odin was worshipped as a lawful of God. He was never worshipped as anything else. His non lawful side was like, oh, when Odid was young he did blh blah, The actual God the norse praised was lawful. It is perfectly reasonable that the norsemen would want thier king, to have been wild and crazy in younger days, but wise and lawful in his older days when he was king..
The problem everyone is doing is there are giving equal wait to temporal actions which is silly. It's like saying Malcom X should be NE because he spent most of young life in prison. Or saint paul should LE becuase he was saul before and took great pleasure in torturing christians, or than Satan should be Lawful Good because he was the highest Angel for a longer time than he was satan.
For a diety esp, it needs to be how the God was worship, when he was worship and what time period. The fact is ODIN is never worshipped as anything other than the lawful aloof king, because all his non laful actions are referred to as being past events.
This was probably beaten to death already, but...
Are you discussing gaming or real life?
The Vikings didn't start adopting the trappings of "civilized" living (including rigid nation states) until they started adopting Christianity. Their culture to that point is usually described as valuing strength and independence* (Cambridge History of Scandinavia). They were flexible*, adaptable* and tolerant of other cultures*. Any sort of central authority didn't start showing up in their society until they adopted Christianity and accepted the concept of the nation-state.
*(None of these are generally accepted as characteristics of a "lawful" culture in gaming terms).
Your assertion that Odin was "never worshiped as anything other than a Lawful aloof king" is completely culturally false. He was worshiped as what he was, the Patriarchal head of his clan, as the concept of the "Lawful king" wasn't part of the Scandinavian culture until...
Unlike other deities, Odin was a trickster god, which is why "Wednesday", the day of the Roman god Mercury, was named after Woden and "Thursday", the day of the Roman god Jupiter, was not.
To bad the Vikings didn`t win ;)
To bad the Vikings didn`t win ;)
The History channel said climate change forced the Vikings to start raiding. Also anybody they conquered they set up their culture and civilization. The Vikings and Christians were two conquering cultures that ran into each other. Mmmmmmmm... Medieval Risk. Yummy.
The History Channel is, from what I've seen of it, not the most in-depth and exact of sources to go from. A nice place to start, but sometimes further investigation on the matter will reveal that their program will have simplified things to the point where it just ends up being flat-out wrong. Your statement is not wrong, but... needs a lot more detail.
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Like every culture, pretty much ever, the Viking elders sent their headstrong and competitive young men off to bother other people, rather than have them raising a riot in their backyard and disturbing their elders, who pretty much already had a lock on all of the local resources. It's pretty much the only reason Rome kept growing (and the Mongol horde kept raiding, etc.) to keep the younger men out of the way of the older men, so that the older men could hold onto whatever land, power and women they'd already claimed for themselves.
"Go forth and pillage, my sons! And, if yanno, you find a place you like, feel free to plant our flag and take a native bride and bring our ways to the heathen and not come back, 'cause I'm not planning on dying and leaving you the farm anytime soon, and the last thing we need is more unemployed testosterone-crazed hooligans running around, agitating for equal shares of our land and stuff..."
"There's a golden land of opportunity for you out there, just waiting for some bold soul to march forth and seize it. Way over thataway. Now get off my lawn!"
Tuesday = Tiwaz day
Wednesday = Odins day Wodens day Wotans day
Thursday = Thors day
Friday = Frigs day
Saturns day
Sun day
Moon day
History channel goes into too much depth sometimes.
The program Ancient Astronauts makes claims about the pyramids that Chasing Mummies insults people for. The pyramids were made with hard work and simple machines.
What it really proves is that even the smartest person can take real evidence and come up with emotional conclusions.
Just choose the description that's most playable.
Or that smart people can ignore real evidence because of emotions.
Also, both Norse and Egyptian magic was entirely the province of women, Odin's ability to use magic was another example of his breaking the rules to benefit himself.
I don't think this is really true of either. It's certainly not true of Egyptian magic; the Isiac priesthood itself included both men and women, let alone the broader class of people considered mystical.
For Norse magic I can easily think of Egill carving his runes, for Egyptian, I can easily think of the (male) necromancer raising the dead in Apuleius (and Apuleius himself was both male and an initiate of the Isis cult).
And I am now reading about medieval alchemy, which was the traditional province of Mercury.
Odin's been considered the Norse gloss for Mercury (for example, in naming of Mercury's day "Woden's Day", so he would probably get credit for alchemy as well.
Reading about medieval alchemy indicates that they are an interesting bunch. They are about a lot more than turning lead into gold, finding the secret to immortal life, and making things go boom. To the medieval alchemist, the interplay of materials was a microcosm of the great cosmic drama.
Though art knowledgeable.
How could I have forgotten about Gerd, the wife of Frey? I even had a PC who was going to become a cleric of Gerd as some point if the campaign had continued.
The basic story is that Frey was sitting in the tower Hlidskialf, when he saw a beautiful jotun maiden named Gerd, whose arm shown with light. He sent his servant to get her to marry him. At first she refused, but finally she agreed to meet him, and she fell in love with him and married him. But to arrange the meeting, Frey had to give his sword to her father, to be used against him at Raganarok.
I saw Gerd as a goddess of ice and winter, but also of the spring thaw. She is an important nature goddess, especially of the northern realms. She is a goddess of beauty and light, but also of aloofness. Reading the Wikipedia article, I also see that she is a rival of Frigga, and that images of her and Frey are often found in buildings, so she might also be the goddess of enclosures and buildings.
I put her alignment as Lawful Neutral. I would assign her a Sword as her favored weapon. Her domains might include Charm, Earth, Glory, Protection, and Weather.
I can include her. What kind of sword do you think?
In general, I tried not to include too many minor deities who are only the spouses or lovers of the major ones. The list can be become quite long then.
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This is just awesome. I had been throwing something similar together, for a Godlings Campaign (Genius Games rules for the children of Gods).
I'll forgo conversions and use what you have here (If you don't mind), since what I hadn't done yet, but needed, was write ups of the Gods.
Classes aren't really a problem, since the Godlings are themselves Classes.
Mighty Godling for Thor, Clever Godling for Loki, etc...
-Uriel
I think your work here is great. I do agree with others that Grendel probably does not fit within a Dragon pantheon. As a suggestion, perhaps you could replace him? Find another source for evil in dragon kind. Then again, maybe dragons aren't evil just mankind's natural enemy?
There is no cultural relativism here. Enemy to mankind *IS* the definition of evil. Do you have a another draogn in mind? It seems I have exhausted all the named dragons.
Oh, my last little thing here. I see that you included Wolf Deities! Totally awesome... but where is the Freki and Geri love? C'mon.
Link me a source and I can put them in.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geri_and_Freki
Here they are.
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How could I have forgotten about Gerd, the wife of Frey? I even had a PC who was going to become a cleric of Gerd as some point if the campaign had continued.
The basic story is that Frey was sitting in the tower Hlidskialf, when he saw a beautiful jotun maiden named Gerd, whose arm shown with light. He sent his servant to get her to marry him. At first she refused, but finally she agreed to meet him, and she fell in love with him and married him. But to arrange the meeting, Frey had to give his sword to her father, to be used against him at Raganarok.
I saw Gerd as a goddess of ice and winter, but also of the spring thaw. She is an important nature goddess, especially of the northern realms. She is a goddess of beauty and light, but also of aloofness. Reading the Wikipedia article, I also see that she is a rival of Frigga, and that images of her and Frey are often found in buildings, so she might also be the goddess of enclosures and buildings.
I put her alignment as Lawful Neutral. I would assign her a Sword as her favored weapon. Her domains might include Charm, Earth, Glory, Protection, and Weather.
I can include her. What kind of sword do you think?
In general, I tried not to include too many minor deities who are only the spouses or lovers of the major ones. The list can be become quite long then.
It would probably be the kind of sword that Frey gave up to become her husband. A longsword, I think.
It's interesting, deities that I thought were minor turned out to have have more significance in ancient culture than I thought.
Gerd was listed as one of the "rivals of Frigga", but I've been wondering if (assuming that it is not an error, as some scholars believe it might have been), if it might have been a political rivalry instead of a sexual rivalry.
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Thor had a girlfriend, a Giantess named Jarnsaxa or Iarnsaxa who was the chief rival for Sifs affections. She bore him two sons Mangi and Modi.
Mangi- Magni's strength almost match that of his father. Magni was given the horse called Gullfaxi, "Golden Mane", when he rescued his father from the frost giant Hrungnir.
Modi- Apart from his association with his father (Thor) and brother Magni, and that he survived Ragnarok, not much is known about Modi. Magni and Modi survived Ragnarök, inheriting their father's hammer, Mjollnir, Modi appeared to be both a poet and a warrior, in the kennings found in Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda. Yes Thors son with a Giantess inherited Mjolnir!
Thor and Sif- Thor married Sif, the golden-haired goddess. He was the father of a daughter, named Thrud. Goddess of corn and fertility(?). She was goddess with beautiful golden hair. Not much is known about Sif. Sif was possibly a Vanir goddess originally, like the goddess Freyja.
Sif was the wife and consort of Thor. She had a son named Ull.
Originally, Sif was probably a prophetess known as the Sibyl, which Snorri Sturluson mentioned in the prologue of the Prose Edda. This Sibyl married Tror (Thor), who she had met in the realm of Thrace, which Sturluson called Thrudheim. If this is truly the case, then she became the goddess of prophecy and divination, though in the usual Norse mythology, she doesn't appeare to have any gift with divination.
Gotta love those old stories ;)
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Thor had a girlfriend, a Giantess named Jarnsaxa or Iarnsaxa who was the chief rival for Sifs affections. She bore him two sons Mangi and Modi.
Mangi- Magni's strength almost match that of his father. Magni was given the horse called Gullfaxi, "Golden Mane", when he rescued his father from the frost giant Hrungnir.
Modi- Apart from his association with his father (Thor) and brother Magni, and that he survived Ragnarok, not much is known about Modi. Magni and Modi survived Ragnarök, inheriting their father's hammer, Mjollnir, Modi appeared to be both a poet and a warrior, in the kennings found in Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda. Yes Thors son with a Giantess inherited Mjolnir!
Thor and Sif- Thor married Sif, the golden-haired goddess. He was the father of a daughter, named Thrud. Goddess of corn and fertility(?). She was goddess with beautiful golden hair. Not much is known about Sif. Sif was possibly a Vanir goddess originally, like the goddess Freyja.
Sif was the wife and consort of Thor. She had a son named Ull.
Originally, Sif was probably a prophetess known as the Sibyl, which Snorri Sturluson mentioned in the prologue of the Prose Edda. This Sibyl married Tror (Thor), who she had met in the realm of Thrace, which Sturluson called Thrudheim. If this is truly the case, then she became the goddess of prophecy and divination, though in the usual Norse mythology, she doesn't appeare to have any gift with divination.
Gotta love those old stories ;)
It's a pity nobody did anything with the concept of Sif as goddess of divination while Thor was the god of kicking Jotun butt.
I've been toying with a concept of the post-Raganarok pantheon (Baldur, Magni and Modi, probably Sif, et al returning about 2,500 years in the future. However, by then Mankind will have reached for and inhabited the stars and see the Norse gods as advanced aliens instead of divinities. Yes, the wheels in my mind are turning.
One idea is that in the "interegnum" between the death of Odin and the return of Baldur, Sif is running things, hatching plans on this world or that. I thus characterized her as a no-nonsense, pragmatic goddess with little patience for the kind of machiasmo that led to Raganarok in the first place. I've gone so far as to establish a setting based on the concept and actually tried to write a novel (I got about 70 pages written) and based a Dungeons and Dragons paladin PC on this concept.
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An interesting idea I found on Wikepedia here regarding Zisa, the wife of Tyr is that Tyr had a wife called Zisa, and that Zisa is another name for Isis.
On the other hand, my theories about a nonchristian medieval europe would associate Baldur with Osiris, and thus Isis would be his consort.
Also, apparently, the name Tyr is derived from a cognate of Dyeus, so perhaps Tyr is another son of Zeus, who might have made a visit to the Asgardians at some point in time?
That is an interesting theory about Zeus. In the Palladium RPG mythos Zeus and Freya had an affair :) and Hera found out and it is sparking the Rifts interdimentional war...
I've been devoting my time to Star Wars lately, but I am returning to this project soon.
What do you think of Gunslingers? Can they fit into a Norse campaign somehow?
I've been devoting my time to Star Wars lately, but I am returning to this project soon.
What do you think of Gunslingers? Can they fit into a Norse campaign somehow?
If they can kill people, they can fit into a Norse campaign.
In my work work on a 17th Century Pathfinder campaign, I learned that the Swedes had some of the best musketeers, making many significant advancements in military strategy and tactics using guns. Putting Odin in charge again probably would not change that.
Our campaign has Norse, Sumerian, Babylonian, Celtic, Finnish, African, Indian, Native American, Egyptian, Japanese, Chinese, and Australian Aborigine, and has a region set up for each. It's player created content, so it's not fully completed yet, but check it out if you're interested.
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would associate Baldur with Osiris, and thus Isis would be his consort.
Also, apparently, the name Tyr is derived from a cognate of Dyeus, so perhaps Tyr is another son of Zeus, who might have made a visit to the Asgardians at some point in time?
I also read somewhere that among the Germans and presumably Tyr was head god until replaced by Odin in the 2nd and 3rd century.
I also read somewhere that among the Germans and presumably Tyr was head god until replaced by Odin in the 2nd and 3rd century.would associate Baldur with Osiris, and thus Isis would be his consort.
Also, apparently, the name Tyr is derived from a cognate of Dyeus, so perhaps Tyr is another son of Zeus, who might have made a visit to the Asgardians at some point in time?
Odin has a fair amount in common with Shiva and Dionysus as opposed to the standard Indo-European sky-father (Dyeus in Sanskrit).
In regards to Osiris, Odin is a dying-rising god like him, too. Plus Scaef, the "Sheaf of Wheat" appears to be descended/linked to him.
I, of course, also equate Odin with Santa Claus.