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MisterSlanky, just for your info, the Dragon Compendium and the RPG were printed by different companies in different countries so there's no correlation between the two books. Sometimes bindings just fail.
And we are calling this an isolated incident because the 30 or so folks that have posted in this thread represent much less than 1% of the total books printed.
Much less than 1 % of the print run.....hmmm
So that means the print run was greater than 30,000. COOL!!!
Sean
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... Sometimes bindings just fail.
And we are calling this an isolated incident because the 30 or so folks that have posted in this thread represent much less than 1% of the total books printed.
The thirty people posting in this thread probably represent much less than 1% of the total number of people experiencing problems with the crappy binding Paizo's discount printer used.
Same happened with my PF Campaign Setting HC, im praying the core rulebook doesnt do it. Its like the spine is 1/4 inch seperated from the binding even when the book is closed, I can push it back into place but im worried the whole thing will fall apart one day.
I was going to replace it but I figured to wait for the new PFRPG campaign setting book. Hope the new one uses a stronger binding.
In the mean time I hold the PFRPG core rulebook very carefully before I open it, the classes section seems like itll be the first to go if it seperates in the same manner as my Campaign setting book.
Chief Technical Officer
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Everybody at Paizo has been using our books since shortly before they were released in August—and some of us had samples even before that. Many of us use our copies daily; some even cart them back and forth between work and game sessions and home on a regular basis. Some of the copies we have have probably seen more wear-and-tear than any other copies of the books out there. We also spent time *abusing* early samples in the months leading up to the release, and even with all that, we've only seen this particular problem once, in a copy that was dropped from table height to land directly on the edge of the spine.
Now, I'm not saying that those of you having problems have necessarily done that, but it *does* mean that when it comes to this problem, there's no way for us to differentiate between a book that has seen normal use and one that has been abused. Offering to replace them, then, would be pretty much the same as saying that we'll replace *any* copy of the book, for any reason. If we did that, I guarantee that every time we come out with a new printing with new errata, we'd get a sudden uptick in "faulty" books being returned, and that's just not something we can afford to do. And let's be frank here—I'm not aware of *any* publisher whose books come with a lifetime guarantee.
But the bottom line is that the bigger a book is, and the more it sees use, the more likely it is to suffer these sorts of issues eventually. Take a trip to your local used bookstore, especially if you've got one that has a lot of used college textbooks; you'll probably find evidence to back me up.
Makes me wonder why print on demand products are seen as so low in quality.
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Everybody at Paizo has been using our books since shortly before they were released in August—and some of us had samples even before that. Many of us use our copies daily; some even cart them back and forth between work and game sessions and home on a regular basis. Some of the copies we have have probably seen more wear-and-tear than any other copies of the books out there. We also spent time *abusing* early samples in the months leading up to the release, and even with all that, we've only seen this particular problem once, in a copy that was dropped from table height to land directly on the edge of the spine.
Now, I'm not saying that those of you having problems have necessarily done that, but it *does* mean that when it comes to this problem, there's no way for us to differentiate between a book that has seen normal use and one that has been abused. Offering to replace them, then, would be pretty much the same as saying that we'll replace *any* copy of the book, for any reason. If we did that, I guarantee that every time we come out with a new printing with new errata, we'd get a sudden uptick in "faulty" books being returned, and that's just not something we can afford to do. And let's be frank here—I'm not aware of *any* publisher whose books come with a lifetime guarantee.
But the bottom line is that the bigger a book is, and the more it sees use, the more likely it is to suffer these sorts of issues eventually. Take a trip to your local used bookstore, especially if you've got one that has a lot of used college textbooks; you'll probably find evidence to back me up.
Again, you point the blame elsewhere instead of at the company itself. I do not even blame the printer manufacturer because YOU chose them and decided to go with a cheap binding. And to back up your claim, I have about 40 college books and text books. About five of those see extreme use and have lasted quite some time and are still fine. I am sure these companies used higher quality printers which equates to a better book than what you have presented. I understand issues arise with products, failure rates, etc... But you are denying a problem outright by saying, "Isolated incident, do not abuse your book." Take a little responsibility is all I have to say.
It is great that everyone at Paizo has had there books for quite some time and has seen no issues except for one dropped book. However, I do not care about your personal books because even if you did have problems it is not like you would post them here. I am sure that means you must be satisfied with what you have as a product. In hindsight, I am satisfied with the actual material in the book, not the quality of the book. I think I have displayed this point during this thread.
I could go on, and on. But whats the point? Nobody likes to argue a point with a company anyways because it is quite pointless to do so. You have quite adequately displayed your position and I am sure you will have a secret pow wow on Monday to talk about the issue with little resolve.
-RB
Eh I am not seeing why your so ticked off man. Sure your book has issues what do you expect them to do? Was it damaged when you got it? No were some pages out of order? No. Did it have some massive print failure like it falling apart the first day you had it? No.
I am not making light of your issue but as others have said this happens. You don't buy a care drive it six months and expect the guy who sold it to you to fix the motor when it blows.
I paid almost as much for my WoD book that pages fell out in less then six months and it was never used. I don't go expecting WW to send me a new one.
All this data does is show them if there is a massive issue. As less then 30 folks so far have reported it, I have to agree it does not look to be a large issue. It sucks yours is falling apart, I would be a bit upset myself. But every game book I own has done this. You should see my poor 2E PHB.
I think it's unfair for you to rant on cheap poor quality binding when you have zero data it is a major issue. From just this thread alone I would call it a rare issue. All books do it, from all company's.
Sorry was not my place to say that but I said it anyhow
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Eh I am not seeing why your so ticked off man. Sure your book has issues what do you expect them to do? Was it damaged when you got it? No were some pages out of order? No. Did it have some massive print failure like it falling apart the first day you had it? No.
I am not making light of your issue but as others have said this happens. You don't buy a care drive it six months and expect the guy who sold it to you to fix the motor when it blows.
I paid almost as much for my WoD book that pages fell out in less then six months and it was never used. I don't go expecting WW to send me a new one.
All this data does is show them if there is a massive issue. As less then 30 folks so far have reported it, I have to agree it does not look to be a large issue. It sucks yours is falling apart, I would be a bit upset myself. But every game book I own has done this. You should see my poor 2E PHB.
I think it's unfair for you to rant on cheap poor quality binding when you have zero data it is a major issue. From just this thread alone I would call it a rare issue. All books do it, from all company's.
Sorry was not my place to say that but I said it anyhow
Hey Shadow,
Well lets see. Your 2ED players handbook has got to be pushing like twenty years old. I also have some 2ED books. Not many now, they are in below average condition, more from a lot of use, page tears etc... If my NEW car motor blows out, yes the company covers it. Not sure where you buy your cars from.
I am ticked off because I do not enjoy paying fifty dollars for a product that blows out and you are told. "Sorry, fifty dollars and we will send you another one. We hoped we fixed that problem on the second printing."
If your WoW book fell apart after six months and you did not complain, that is your fault. The last I checked, I never explicitly told anyone to send me a new book. I may have insinuated at it, but I never stated it. Do you have data to say that it is not a major issue? No, I did not think so. It does not look like many people have said much, true, many people would not say anything to begin with. And yes, the binding is a low quality binding and if you deny that then you are just supporting Paizo because you enjoy there products, a Fan Boy if you will. I to enjoy there products and there is nothing wrong with doing so by any means. How many people would actually come on this board to complain? I am sure this is a much wider issue and some people who check the boards have posted. How many do not even bother to check the message boards? I usually only come to post a rules question, until I came here to post this.
Many of the people who have posted here are constantly checking the boards and have seen the post, naturally they have posted there thoughts or problems.
-
Edit: Sorry not my place. Can't edit out my first one or I would. Nothing aginest ya man. I have a flaw of falling will saves and typing before I think.
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Well yeah, if I paid 20k for something with a warranty then your damned right I would expect them to fix it.
How is it my fault I did not go to WW forms and b@&@& and call it cheap binding based only on my binding crapping out. Yeah it no were near as good as bindings on other books but I didn't go b@&@&ing and giving 1 star reviews based off that and that alone. How would that have helped anything? It would not have got me a new book.
In fact although I had to fix my binding I didn't rant like this over it and my 2e phb spine fell off about 7 months into owning the thing. Still didn't expect them to send me a new one. And your saying you did not expect that but what did you expect?
I guess we'll have to disagree on the binding as I am looking at binding from 5 diff books from four company's and the core book binding is prob the best I see so far. If that makes me a fanboy for thinking the binding is fine, so be it.
Nothing aginest you man, I just am at a lose as to just want you wanted them to do about it.
As much as I hate to say.. all of my WotC books have better bindings than this. Palladium has better bindings than this. I can go on. If this is the best binding you have seen then...well good for you. And why are you even commenting here when I am talking specifically to Paizo employees for a response except for my previous post to you which was a reply to you? I could care less if everyone of your books had a binding failure. Nothing against you though, but I am happy your binding is in good shape.
Are you saying I should give it a good review? "Great book, get to buy a second one because binding broke, owned for five months, 5 stars." As far as I am concerned I am happy with my review. Are you such a fool that you think I gave the book a 1 star review in order to receive a new one? All my over reviews of Paizo products have been 4 stars or better. And if you must know, my binding has been like this about a month out from when I received it. It has just become progressively worse and when I first received it I thought nothing of it, until it literally started to rip apart.
If you have nothing to say but to argue with me and claim that this is the best binding you have ever seen...then why post here? you bored or something?
-RB
To be honest my first few posts were to be helpful.
edit: Ya know what I got no dog in this fight. Best of luck to ya
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To be honest my first few posts were to be helpful.
edit: Ya know what I got no dog in this fight. Best of luck to ya
Exactly. Not trying to get in the middle here but this is one of those issues which is best left between Paizo and their customers. You aren't helping anyone at this point, just adding fuel to the fire.
I know, which is why I stopped. I would edit my post from early but it was quoted. If RM would be so kind as to delete it I will do the same.
I apologize I had no right to say what I did. Rank it up to me being an idiot
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Look, Paizo is a good company made up of good people who obviously love what they do and go way above and beyond in order to put out top quality game
material.
The reality is that these things do happen from time to time. Paizo has shown themselves to be More willing than most companies to do right by their customers.
To the original poster ... I am really sorry your book is failing - that really sucks. BUT maybe if you had chosen to deal with this privately through customer service instead of rant in a public forum this would have been resolved by now.
Here is my advice to you. Stop posting here, e- mail customer service and explain your situation and the patiently wait for them to respond privately to you. I'll bet you'll be able to get this resolved.
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Everybody at Paizo has been using our books since shortly before they were released in August—and some of us had samples even before that. Many of us use our copies daily; some even cart them back and forth between work and game sessions and home on a regular basis. Some of the copies we have have probably seen more wear-and-tear than any other copies of the books out there. We also spent time *abusing* early samples in the months leading up to the release, and even with all that, we've only seen this particular problem once, in a copy that was dropped from table height to land directly on the edge of the spine.
Now, I'm not saying that those of you having problems have necessarily done that, but it *does* mean that when it comes to this problem, there's no way for us to differentiate between a book that has seen normal use and one that has been abused. Offering to replace them, then, would be pretty much the same as saying that we'll replace *any* copy of the book, for any reason. If we did that, I guarantee that every time we come out with a new printing with new errata, we'd get a sudden uptick in "faulty" books being returned, and that's just not something we can afford to do. And let's be frank here—I'm not aware of *any* publisher whose books come with a lifetime guarantee.
But the bottom line is that the bigger a book is, and the more it sees use, the more likely it is to suffer these sorts of issues eventually. Take a trip to your local used bookstore, especially if you've got one that has a lot of used college textbooks; you'll probably find evidence to back me up.
Oh, I'm not asking for a replacement. Hey, stuff happens. I really felt it was important to document how frequently this occurs. Is it really just a few people? Are there a lot more who can't be bothered to report it? Honestly, its the only way for you folks to get a handle on whether or not your printer had some quality issues with the 1st run.
I promised pics of my binding and I will get them for you. Maybe they will help in some way. For the record, This book was not abused. It was used daily, and did travel from floor to floor of my house, but never even left the premises. In contrast, I practically nuked my 1st edition books & they are still chugging along fine.
I expect that a book this size with regular usage will fail. I was just taken aback that it happened so quickly.
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One more argument for quitting with Chinese and sticking with someplace else. Such as somewhere in Europe :)Which in turn would make my book cost about $100? No thanks. I'll take my rare broken binding. ;-)
Go with the lowest bid and get what you paid for. I would like better bindings at higher cost. I've found many people with problem.
Just saying
One more argument for quitting with Chinese and sticking with someplace else. Such as somewhere in Europe :)
I've heard you go on about that before here. Did you ever send those contacts you have to Paizo?
Yes I did ! Hope something comes out of this.
cool. I'm really curious if it's a viable option for Paizo. My gut allas says no. My heart hopes yes.
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First of all, I'm not screaming for a new book. I really don't care about the eratta that much, so I would not be too worried about getting a new print just for eratta. That being said, I am also having problems with my corebook. It is a first printing, August 2009. Not falling apart yet, but the cover is starting to seperate a bit. It has seen moderate use, with no drops or falls or any damage to the spine. I think the problem may be that it is just so large a book. Again, not fussing or anything, just thought I should mention it so Paizo can keep track and maybe improve things for later books.
Everybody at Paizo has been using our books since shortly before they were released in August—and some of us had samples even before that. Many of us use our copies daily; some even cart them back and forth between work and game sessions and home on a regular basis. Some of the copies we have have probably seen more wear-and-tear than any other copies of the books out there. We also spent time *abusing* early samples in the months leading up to the release, and even with all that, we've only seen this particular problem once, in a copy that was dropped from table height to land directly on the edge of the spine.
Might I ask, from a statistic standpoint, were the books obtained by the staff choosen randomly from all the cases of books during the first wave. Also would you say there are 30 or more books in the possession of the staff, or less than 30? Just trying to determine how good of a representative sample your data is.
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Can those of you who are currently having issues let us know whether you have 1st Printing or 2nd Printing editions? You'll find the printing enumerated at the bottom of the credits page, just above "Printed in China."
Mine is August 2009, First Printing. Just became aware of this thread.
My book is breaking at pages 30/31 and 546/547.Players at my regular Pathfinder Society have voiced similar concerns about the subject. This was a few weeks ago.
One piece of advice from my lesson learned is don't stack open books on top of open books. I consistently did that with my Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting. I noticed it too late and the binding completely busted in half. Repaired it with clear box tap.
I wouldn't blame Paizo. If you've read the news these last many years you'd notice products from China are experiencing serious quality issues. Also, I've been involved with printers and in my experience it wasn't typical to be involved in the selection of glues and binding material components. Perhaps Paizo can send a message to the printer to evaluate their binding materials to prepare for their upcoming releases.
Last few thoughts, TSR's 1e and 2e books were not as big which is probably why the binding is holding up. My 3.5e PHB is beat up and falling apart at the binding too.
As a data point: 1 of my two first printings has a loose connection from cover to inside cover/actual book. Doesn't look like it will be coming loose any time soon though. The bindings themselves (pages to the back) seem to be just fine.
Just putting in my $.02 (BTW, my keyboard doesn't have the cents symbol; does any else's?):
Alt-0162 = ¢ :)
My book is a second printing of the core. I have had it about 6 months. It looks like pages are about to give way to have a middle section fall out. I've been thinking of buying another book, but a friend suggested I come on the board. I think if it is occurring to such a small portion I am fine with that. The way he described it I thought more people had problems. The $50 is not such a big deal to me, I don't need the stress.
Perhaps the third printing could try for 2 books for $25-30 each together as a set. Having a thinner binding seems like a good idea.
My book is breaking at pages 30/31 and 546/547.
However, I do find it interesting that someone else has a similar problem on these pages in a different printing.
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My book is a second printing of the core. I have had it about 6 months. It looks like pages are about to give way to have a middle section fall out. I've been thinking of buying another book, but a friend suggested I come on the board. I think if it is occurring to such a small portion I am fine with that. The way he described it I thought more people had problems. The $50 is not such a big deal to me, I don't need the stress.
Perhaps the third printing could try for 2 books for $25-30 each together as a set. Having a thinner binding seems like a good idea.My book is breaking at pages 30/31 and 546/547.However, I do find it interesting that someone else has a similar problem on these pages in a different printing.
It's already on the third printing.
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One thing I'd like to be clear on—the fabric strip to which each signature is bound is not supposed to be glued to the spine itself on anybody's copy. So that's not a sign that the cover is separating—it's just the way it is. (Does that knowledge change anybody's feedback?)first printing August 2009.
But I would have noticed the problem, at least for a while, had I not read this thread. The binding seems OK but the cover is seperating the rest of the bound pages.
For customer service:I intend to purchase another copy when the thrid printing is availible, I am just commenting here to provide feedback for Paizo in case you are tracking the number of books with problems.
Vic,
I have copy of the first printing that has seen moderate use (I flip through it often, but I don't travel with it) and the pages have started moving around inside the binding. They are all still connected to the fabric strip, but the book is definitely wearing in two spots. The first (and most noticeable) is the strip between the Table of Contents and the Credit page. The second (not as bad) is the Index between pages 574 and 575.
I suspect that, before too long, the cover will come off the book entirely. However, the "guts' of the book look like they will remain intact and attached to the fabric strip. I've seen this before with other gaming books. The same thing happened to a couple of my White Wolf books (such as my hardcover of Mage) and at least one of my TSR books (my revised, 2nd edition Player's Handbook). I've also seen this with thicker textbooks (I work at a university bookstore and handle books on a regular basis) that use this style of binding.
So I could see how someone would look at this and say "defective", but I think the problem is more "an uncommon but standard and probably unavoidable issue with this style of binding". Sort of like how if there is a problem with a "perfect bound" book, it will probably be in the form of pages falling out.
In the past (with my old PHB), I just solved the problem by three-hole punching the pages and sticking them in a nice binder. It ain't pretty, but it works. I used duct tape to hold the Mage book together, which worked pretty well. Ugly as sin, though. :-)
Just throwing this out there, but the binding issue isn't all that isolated. We have eight Pathfinder Core Rulebooks amongst the various players at my regular game and 6 out of the 8 show signs of inferior binding. Two of them have had pages start to fall out, and the other four have pages that shift and seem to pull away when the books are opened. The other two books don't seem to have the same problem but they are owned by players who rarely use them, and the most foggy on the rules (meaning they don't read the book!). Mine seem extremely loose and frankly I'm afraid to open my own copy on a flat surface for fear that it will break further.
I should have posted this back in February when it came out and we first got them. Frankly, it didn't occur to me, and that's my own fault. Some of us bought the books at our local hobby store, one of us ordered it from the Paizo website and the others were ordered from other websites (I believe I got mine and my wife's copy from Amazon). All exhibit the same problems, despite the difference in the distribution source. I don't think any of us in my particular group expect Paizo to replace the books at this point... we waited too long and didn't exercise our "squeaky wheel" ability in a timely fashion. But please don't say that it's an isolated incident, or that you (Paizo) have no idea how it happened. It's insulting. I find it really hard to believe that so many copies would share this tendency of page-slippage without someone in the company being aware that it's a common situation.
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Chief Technical Officer
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So I could see how someone would look at this and say "defective", but I think the problem is more "an uncommon but standard and probably unavoidable issue with this style of binding".
I might change the last sentence to "with books of this size," as your phrasing might imply to some that there's something better than smyth-sewn binding, and as far as I know, there really isn't.
One thing I'd like to be clear on—the fabric strip to which each signature is bound is not supposed to be glued to the spine itself on anybody's copy. So that's not a sign that the cover is separating—it's just the way it is.
I need to amend that statement. For the 1st and 2nd printings, the fabric strip to which each signature is bound *is* glued to the spine itself. We changed printers for the 3rd printing, and they *don't* glue the fabric strip to the spine.
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Count me among those with binding problems. There are 4 copies of the core book in my gaming group, all 1st printings as we started my campaign as soon as PFRPG was released.
All 4 are having problems similar to many others in this thread. The cover is starting to come off, or at least weaken, between the ToC and the credits page, and between pages 574 and 575. The book is just too big for the quality of binding.
The book is just too big
I think this is the general problem.
Would Paizo consider splitting the book into 2 smaller volumes at some point in the future? I'd buy them if only to make it easier to use at the table, in addition to fixing the binding issues people are having.
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Adding my 2¢. I can't really say much about my Core Rulebook (I tend to look to my PDF, easier to carry) but I own hundreds of pounds of gaming books and almost all the large hardbound books have seam breaks. I notice it in most of the larger books from Wizards of the Cost. I have 4 copies of the 2nd ed players handbook and none of them is above "cardboard folio full of loose paper" grade. Same with my 3.0 dmg.
The larger the book the more often I have seen them separate from the binding. Just sayin. Perhaps pushing 600 pages on that stock is more than the binding tech can handle. All the books that big I have that survive use more coarser paper and of lighter weight which seems to take to binding better but would never hold up to gamers.
By the way DogBone hold down the left alt key and type 0162 for the ¢ symbol on a PC, no idea how it works for Mac/"ix".
The binding on the PF campaign book before the PFRPG rules release fell apart on me and I barely opened the book. Its literally hanging about an inch from the spine and i have to push it back in manually.
PF1 Burnt Offerings softcover is starting to seprate on me (page 16 iirc), this one saw a tad heavier usage as I ran the whole thing for my group.
In short, Paizo bindings have me worried since the beginning. Later books have been better but PF37 "Smuggler's Shiv" is starting to go the route Burnt Offerings went for me. Its like you cant open the softcovers too far.
TSR and WotC had great bindings imho. The hardcovers never seperated on me, and the softcovers (like the 2nd ed. complete book of _____ series) could be opened a million times with no ill effects.
Add me to the "Id be willing to pay more for better bindings" camp. :)
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So I could see how someone would look at this and say "defective", but I think the problem is more "an uncommon but standard and probably unavoidable issue with this style of binding".I might change the last sentence to "with books of this size," as your phrasing might imply to some that there's something better than smyth-sewn binding, and as far as I know, there really isn't.
Vic,
Consider it amended! I did not mean to imply that there was anything wrong with your choice of binding and I certainly didn't mean to imply there was a better method available.
What I was trying to (apparently unsuccessfully) point out to other posters is that the fact multiple people have reported a similar problem doesn't necessarily mean there was a defective batch of books. If a book is going to "break" then the type of binding used makes it more likely it will break in a certain way. That doesn't make the binding "bad" or "cheap".
"Use" isn't just opening and shutting and turning pages. Throwing it in your backpack and carrying it around causes wear on a book.
I just addressed my post to you because ... I was responding to your post. Apparently.
So I could see how someone would look at this and say "defective", but I think the problem is more "an uncommon but standard and probably unavoidable issue with this style of binding".I might change the last sentence to "with books of this size," as your phrasing might imply to some that there's something better than smyth-sewn binding, and as far as I know, there really isn't.
One thing I'd like to be clear on—the fabric strip to which each signature is bound is not supposed to be glued to the spine itself on anybody's copy. So that's not a sign that the cover is separating—it's just the way it is.I need to amend that statement. For the 1st and 2nd printings, the fabric strip to which each signature is bound *is* glued to the spine itself. We changed printers for the 3rd printing, and they *don't* glue the fabric strip to the spine.
Whoa, seriously? That is just...odd.
In fact, my Bestiary (2nd printing) actually had that done by mistake, and as a result the binding cracked right away. I can't even see how that would be *supposed* to work...it is my understanding that in a smyth-sewn book, the binding is explicitly designed to *not* be attached the to spine.
The book is just too bigI think this is the general problem.
Would Paizo consider splitting the book into 2 smaller volumes at some point in the future? I'd buy them if only to make it easier to use at the table, in addition to fixing the binding issues people are having.
That would probably be best from a binding POV, though I think the cat is out of the bag. They were probably trying to minimize the cost of entry.
Add me to the "Id be willing to pay more for better bindings" camp. :)
Oh hell yes. I'd pay 25% more without batting an eye, in fact. I suspect we are in the miniority, though.
To shift gears a bit, I still think there is room for a high-end collectors edition of the core rulebook. Awesome binding, acid-free paper, sewn in bookmarks, leather/leathette covers, etc. That would be a no-brainer @ $100.00 for me, and a probably purchase up to $150.00. Skip the gilt-edge pages, though. :)
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If a book is going to "break" then the type of binding used makes it more likely it will break in a certain way. That doesn't make the binding "bad" or "cheap".
Eh. I don't like this now that I've posted it. It still seems too "blame" and not enough "explanation".
How about:
"Every binding has a weak point. If there is going to be a problem, that is most likely where the problem will occur. The larger the book, the larger the weak point."
Much better.
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Add me to the "Id be willing to pay more for better bindings" camp. :)Oh hell yes. I'd pay 25% more without batting an eye, in fact. I suspect we are in the miniority, though.
To shift gears a bit, I still think there is room for a high-end collectors edition of the core rulebook. Awesome binding, acid-free paper, sewn in bookmarks, leather/leathette covers, etc. That would be a no-brainer @ $100.00 for me, and a probably purchase up to $150.00. Skip the gilt-edge pages, though. :)
I would be up for a special edition leather core book with sewn in books marks and the like.
Mostly for just on my book shelf instead of use. Yes a lute weird but I also just paid $30 each for two out of print flip mats.
It's killing me not getting swallowed whole map pack but.....yea my collector side....my realistic side....
Anyways yea here is a vote for the Leather book. Perhaps of each hard cover but that could get spendy.
Sean
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Chief Technical Officer
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I need to amend that statement. For the 1st and 2nd printings, the fabric strip to which each signature is bound *is* glued to the spine itself. We changed printers for the 3rd printing, and they *don't* glue the fabric strip to the spine.Whoa, seriously? That is just...odd.
In fact, my Bestiary (2nd printing) actually had that done by mistake, and as a result the binding cracked right away. I can't even see how that would be *supposed* to work...it is my understanding that in a smyth-sewn book, the binding is explicitly designed to *not* be attached the to spine.
Our printer change came between printings of the Bestiary as well—it's harder to tell with that book because the spine is smaller, but the 1st printing has the fabric strip glued to the spine, and the 2nd printing doesn't. The GMG and APG both used the new printer from the beginning, so they're not glued.
I've held off commenting on this thread. My core rulebook came away from the cover. I purchased it right after it came out and it gets used quite a bit. The spine held really well. I took it to a local book repair person and had it fixed. I also had ribbons put in to act as book marks. This cost about as much as the book did originally. I love the improvements, but it was spendy. According to him when he repaired it there was no "webbing" between the brown cover pages and the spine, which is why it seperated. After checking some other hard-cover books you can see a "seam" that extends about 1/2" onto the cover.
My core rule book fell a part too.
I do wish that Pazio would put one of those sticky strips in the adventure paths so that you can take out the new monster pages and keep them with a bestiary. It is a pain to have to dig thru adventure paths for monsters you want to use in other adventures.
My core rule book fell a part too.
I do wish that Pazio would put one of those sticky strips in the adventure paths so that you can take out the new monster pages and keep them with a bestiary. It is a pain to have to dig thru adventure paths for monsters you want to use in other adventures.
You could always photocopy them, or if you have the pdf, just print out the relevant pages.