Armor spikes question

[John Spalding]

Is there a rule preventing the following:

Animated Shield (essentially slotless)
Longsword/scimitar wielded in two hands for 1.5 str and extra PA damage
Offhand attack with armor spikes

The only limit I see is "You can't also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa."

Is it too literal to say that the longsword in the example is not an offhand weapon.

[Tom Baumbach]

John Spalding wrote:

(s it too literal to say that the longsword in the example is not an offhand weapon.

It is my understanding that when you're wielding a weapon with two hands, you do not have an off hand.

[Maezer]

Link to long thread about same subject.

Short answer. 3.5 FAQ expressly states that you can. Text of two-weapon fighting, armor spikes, everything related is a direct copy from the srd 3.5 to the Pathfinder SRD.

But this was a frequently asked question in 3.5 for a reason.

If the 3.5 FAQ holds no weight in your game (and it doesn't for a lot of people) without an official Pathfinder FAQ answering the question all you get is a lot of debate.

[Asgetrion]

You cannot wield longsword or scimitar two-handed, at least to my knowledge...

[nidho]

Asgetrion wrote:

You cannot wield longsword or scimitar two-handed, at least to my knowledge...

Longsword and scimitar are one handed weapons.

"One-Handed: A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary hand or the off hand. Add the wielder's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a one-handed weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or 1/2 his Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand. If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls."

[Spacelard]

Asgetrion wrote:

You cannot wield longsword or scimitar two-handed, at least to my knowledge...

Says you can't use a rapier two handed but there is nothing in PF saying you can't with either longsword or scimitar.

[Erich L]

I have a different Armor Spikes questions. First, can you attack with Armor Spikes when you're not grappling? The description starts talking about grappling, but then states: "You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack with the spikes, but they count as a light weapon in this case." Is this sentence still talking about while grappling or outside of a grapple? Outside of a grapple, could a 2-weapon fighter with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat attack with a one-handed weapon and then attack with his Armor Spikes as his off-handed weapon? If he were wielding a shield, could he then retain his shield bonus to AC? The part that is really confusing is the parenthetical: "(You can't also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa)." This is what makes me think that while pourly worded, the intent of this weapon was to only be used in a grapple, since in a grapple you can only regular melee attack with a one-handed or light weapon and while 2-weapon fighting outside of a grapple you can attack with two light weapons (one in each hand). Thoughts?

[David Thomassen]

Armored Spikes are a light weapon that does not require a free hand to use. Within the limitaions of the Two-Weapon Fighting Feat you can only use 2 weapons to attack with (As a creature with two arms), so the Armored cannot be used to gain an additional attack.
In your example, yes you can have a Sword in 1 hand a Shield in the other and armored spikes and use all three (So keeping your Shield Modification to AC and using both the sword and armored spikes to attack with.)

[Stynkk]

David Thomassen wrote:

Armored Spikes are a light weapon that does not require a free hand to use. Within the limitaions of the Two-Weapon Fighting Feat you can only use 2 weapons to attack with (As a creature with two arms), so the Armored cannot be used to gain an additional attack.

In your example, yes you can have a Sword in 1 hand a Shield in the other and armored spikes and use all three (So keeping your Shield Modification to AC and using both the sword and armored spikes to attack with.)

Agree. The sentence you're referring to is saying: Armor Spikes can be used as a regular weapon, as well as during a grapple.

[FlorianF]

Erich L wrote:

First, can you attack with Armor Spikes when you're not grappling?

My belief is that it is the intent of this item, but that was lost in its poorly-worded decsription and subsequent abuse.

In fact I don't undestand how we so easily assume that it makes perfect sense to have a 1d6 "no hands" weapon that can be used as easily as a short sword. (and yes I am guilty of it, though I originally outfitted the spikes because my mini had them...)
The situation where an archer or reach wpn user would stab with its shoulder blade doing a whole 1d6 dmg with no penaltu whatsoever is quite ridiculous.

Because grapple actually allows CMB and regular wpn attacks it makes sense that the spikes were intended to be used in this context only (in which case btw they're more useful using the CMB because they *add* 1d6 to the regular unarmed dmg)

Also, the comparison with spiked gauntlets is quite telling. Gauntlets do less damage AND cannot be used as a CMB grapple attack AND use hands.

[Grick]

This thread was over a year old.

FlorianF wrote:

Erich L wrote:

First, can you attack with Armor Spikes when you're not grappling?

My belief is that it is the intent of this item

Armor Spikes: "You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case."

If the intent was that you could not also make a regular melee attack with the spikes outside of grappling, they probably would not have added in text saying exactly the opposite.

The only goofy thing with armor spikes is they can't be used as your main-hand attack when two-weapon fighting.

[Booksy]

@John Spalding - as long as you observed the normal TWF to hit penalties(-4/-8 or with Feat:TWF -2/-2) yes.

You can wield your longsword/scimitar in two hands (for 1.5 PA dmg), AND make an 'off-hand' attack with your light armor spikes.
All this while gaining the benefit of an animated shield (you can even free action taking one hand off your weapon to pluck the shield out of the air at the end of the 'animation'.)

While the shield is not animated though, could you make the 'offhand' armor spike attack and retain the shield bonus? What say you fellow Paizoboarders?

[Grick]

Booksy wrote:

While the shield is not animated though, could you make the 'offhand' armor spike attack and retain the shield bonus?

Until/Unless the rule is changed/clarified that making an attack with armor spikes requires the use of a hand, yes.