Five rounds is on the high end in my experience, although it happens. I'd say 3-5 rounds, typically 4.
Our games usually have either one really strong monster or a lot of average ones, so our battles tend to last for a fair amount of time, usually around 5-9 rounds.
The was brought up last month here
For my group 7-10 seems to be norm, but my group is anything but from the other posts I read.
I'd say around... 4-8 usually. Sometimes longer, never shorter. Though a combat more than 10 rounds (1 game minute) is very rare).
For my group 7-10 seems to be norm, but my group is anything but from the other posts I read.
Eh? Seriously? Well, I guess you would know (it being your group and all) I'm just having a hard time imagining how I'd even set up encounters on a regular basis that could last 10 rounds without someone being dead by the end of most fights. (I can think of one fight that I've run recently that came close, but it involved 20 hobgoblin archer-knights on horseback, and hit and run tactics on the part of the players, even then it only lasted 6 rounds really, 7 if you count one straggler that fled and did not engage the players. Also, even at just 6 rounds, two characters ended up in negative hp, and the rest were nearly there by the end of the fight.)
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For me, it varies pretty wildly on the kind of campaign I'm running. I did an "orc invasion" campaign once that involved massive numbers of relatively low-CR creatures and those battles generally took awhile (because the party did not have an arcane caster to drop fireballs on everything). I'd say the average combat in that game was probably 8 rounds.
For my more "typical" campaigns, 3-5 rounds is pretty normal. "Boss fights" usually tend towards 7-8 rounds, if only because I'm very good about making my "boss enemies" very difficult to get at and highly resilient.
For my groups, it's ususally 3 rounds. Some combat can take longer, but only if the foes are hard to hit (due to high AC, hp and SR).
In my experience, anything more than 5 rounds runs a serious risk of one or more PC deaths. Especially if the foes use smart tactics.
From my experience, the factors depend a lot more on the circumstances involved. If it's just straight-up combat, 5-6 seem like a pretty good average. However, if I factor in other circumstances (terrain, obstacles, large number of opponents, etc.), then it will dramatically go up.
Massive battle with about 20 ogres on the ramparts of a well-known Varisian fort last night. 13 rounds until the PCs routed the remaining 8 ogres.
For my group 7-10 seems to be norm, but my group is anything but from the other posts I read.Eh? Seriously? Well, I guess you would know (it being your group and all) I'm just having a hard time imagining how I'd even set up encounters on a regular basis that could last 10 rounds without someone being dead by the end of most fights. (I can think of one fight that I've run recently that came close, but it involved 20 hobgoblin archer-knights on horseback, and hit and run tactics on the part of the players, even then it only lasted 6 rounds really, 7 if you count one straggler that fled and did not engage the players. Also, even at just 6 rounds, two characters ended up in negative hp, and the rest were nearly there by the end of the fight.)
The 20 hobgoblin archers sounds like a typical fight for my group. Some recent battles that went over 7 round include:
6 lvl 1 characters vs: 12 kobolds + lvl 3 + lvl 2 commanders, and later that day 24 kobolds with crossbows and polearms getting suprise on us (and 3 crits opening round). GM gave us double hitpoints at 1st level, so we survived, but some of us dropped negative. This took 12 rounds or so.5 lvl 2 +1 lvl1: 18 (or 21 I forget) Trogladytes coming. 12 in 1 wave and before they all died 6 more showed up. Some of them were class leveled. We had suprize and terrain advantage. Still our lvl 1 summoner died and bard was dropped. The first wave took 8 rounds, the second one annother 4 before it was obviously over, and 4 more to kill the last guys who was no real threat unless he escaped (damn 23 ACs)
3 lvl 3: ranger, witch, and evoker vs 7 fast zombies (I think thats what they were at least) We needed to use up a couple charges from a cure mod wand that battle. Earlier, the same party fought 2 mating gelatenous cubes. 1 monster, double normal HP. That combat took 14 rounds, and had the witch and wizard diving into the cube to pull eachother out a couple times. 100 %$^%$ HP.
longest 27rounds 2 out of 5 PC's and a mother green dragon and her brood of 4 young dead. Average 7-10 I play rough.
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Combats tend to last between 2-5 rounds for my players. Occasionally a fight might last twice those numbers, but that's usually due to reinforcements or a particularly defence specced badguy. Sometimes people are still having fun so i add hit points to the monsters so people can keep slugging it out. Still the short fights make players feel bad-ass, turning their enemies to paste instantly. Longer fights tend to push the players to the edge of their hp and resources. Each has their place in the game.
I think level has a lot to do with it. I've got two campaigns going right now, one as a player and one as a DM. As a player I'm 12th level and finding many combats go long. Lots of de-buffing, moving, paralysis & removal, invisible and visible... in short, churn. While the PCs have become quite powerful, monsters have great defenses, and it takes time to align weapons, or figure out weaknesses.
At low level, a fireball levels the playing field quick. At high level, you can often pop out a horribly powerful spell and fail an SR check or discover the creature has a resistance or protective ward.
I would say that combat is typically 3-5 rounds for our group. When I'm looking for a more epic feel to the combat, I will chain encounters together with very short pauses in between. I think of it as "the pause that refreshes" then I thow more opponents at the party. Even with this approach, I don't usually have combat go longer than a dozen rounds, but the players feel like they have surmounted impossible odds.
For my group 7-10 seems to be norm, but my group is anything but from the other posts I read.Eh? Seriously? Well, I guess you would know (it being your group and all) I'm just having a hard time imagining how I'd even set up encounters on a regular basis that could last 10 rounds without someone being dead by the end of most fights. (I can think of one fight that I've run recently that came close, but it involved 20 hobgoblin archer-knights on horseback, and hit and run tactics on the part of the players, even then it only lasted 6 rounds really, 7 if you count one straggler that fled and did not engage the players. Also, even at just 6 rounds, two characters ended up in negative hp, and the rest were nearly there by the end of the fight.)
It was longer than seven rounds even if you *don't* count the break. I know, because we were playing barbarians with rage.
It was longer than seven rounds even if you *don't* count the break. I know, because we were playing barbarians with rage.For my group 7-10 seems to be norm, but my group is anything but from the other posts I read.Eh? Seriously? Well, I guess you would know (it being your group and all) I'm just having a hard time imagining how I'd even set up encounters on a regular basis that could last 10 rounds without someone being dead by the end of most fights. (I can think of one fight that I've run recently that came close, but it involved 20 hobgoblin archer-knights on horseback, and hit and run tactics on the part of the players, even then it only lasted 6 rounds really, 7 if you count one straggler that fled and did not engage the players. Also, even at just 6 rounds, two characters ended up in negative hp, and the rest were nearly there by the end of the fight.)
I'm pretty sure it was 7 rounds total, I remember one of the hobgoblins who's mount you guys spooked with the alchemist's fire being gone for 7 rounds (3 and a 4 on 2d6), and returning just in time to see you all mopping up (which would be why he fled).
It's possible I'm one round off though, that was a looong fight and I may have mis-counted and had him gone 8 rounds instead of 7.
(Also, a certain cleric was still dispensing healing bursts, right up until a couple rounds before the end of the fight. Given he only has 6? of those, it can't have run _that_ long.)
Would it be safe to assume that the higher the level you are the longer the fights take? Generally speaking I mean.
I've only really been low levels so far but I'm thinking the bigger badder bad guys in the higher levels will take longer to kill or dispatch.
So far, at lvl 2, if it goes longer than 2 rounds it usually means somebody will wind up dead.
Would it be safe to assume that the higher the level you are the longer the fights take? Generally speaking I mean.
I've only really been low levels so far but I'm thinking the bigger badder bad guys in the higher levels will take longer to kill or dispatch.
So far, at lvl 2, if it goes longer than 2 rounds it usually means somebody will wind up dead.
In my experience it is very much the opposite. Low level games are much more likely to have wiffage and rounds where nothing substancial happens.
My experience as the GM for two different Pathfinder games, one high level (characters are either 11th or 12th level now) and my new every-other-Sunday "Second Darkness" game (everyone is 1st level) would echo what everyone has posted above.
My high level Monday night group had a night of 4 or 5 encounters, ranging from EL 10-14. And the combats in each lasted about 2-4 rounds.
My new Sunday night group (1st level characters) I had them go on the "Set Piece" mission at St. Caspiernian's Salvation, and that took a little longer, maybe 5-6 rounds (and Beltias nearly killed them all) but I figured he'd take out the front-line fighter types and leave the others alone and live to get revenge later on the PCs since they busted up his gang and his sweet little operation at the little half-way house. (And in Second Darkness there is that level gap between part 2 and part 3 I think.) Perfect to write up a little adventure to take them up one level and finish off Beltias once and for all. (They are all mostly a good-aligned party, except one guy is lawful neutral) so it will be interesting to see how this will all go down.
But, yeah, my combat rounds tend to go with the average. (Although dice rolls can add or subtract rounds of combat from those numbers.)
I doubt that any of the editions of the game can really take those kinds of factors into account, so in the design process, in terms of monster stats, it has to really look at roughly five rounds of exchanges between the monster and the party, whether those exchanges are consecutive or spread out in a more dense tactical situation.
Well Mok, game designers probably could use such information if the timing worked out, but it doesn't matter to me. As a game master I am grateful that you managed to pull up this statistic, thanks!
Hm... after all these years and all the new books... it seems combat still averages out to about the same length as it did back in ye old days xD... Makes me wonder about the claims of " ERMAHGERD!!!! POWERCREEP EVERWHERE!!! DOOM!!!!RAWAWRH!!!"
Oh and you can just call me a Gravewalker xD
I should really start keeping track. This question has come up repeatedly over the years.
I can start this weekend! I've got games on both Friday *and* Sunday!
As a GM:
The party is Level 1-6: battles are 8-12 rounds, the Fighter is down to single hit points, the Wizard is running around trying to not get caught by a stray arrow, the Rogue is attempting to use the shade from a nearby bush to qualify her "hide in shadows" requirement for Sneak Attack, and the Ranger is missing the target's AC by 1 each time.
The party is Level 7-11: battles are less than 6 rounds, without exception. The Fighter is singing Conan songs, the Rogue knows how to flank the Fighter effectively, the Wizard can cast Fireball and NOT hit his compatriots, and the Ranger is switching from cold iron masterwork arrows to "slaying ______" arrows now that he has successfully identified the target. He can also shoot around anything in his line-of-sight.
The party is Level 12-16: the Fighter is complaining that he doesn't have the "right" sword if the battle rounds go past 3 (he has 6 swords, one for each Resistance/DR), the Rogue is complaining the monster has more than 100 hp, since her first Sneak Attack should have killed it on the first round, the Wizard is cursing the SR of the monster, and the Ranger is wondering why his arrows can't do as much damage as the Fighter's sword, since he became an Arcane Archer.
The party is Level 18+: the party wants bigger monsters that last more than 1 round.
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Kitty cat the necromancer:)
Well, since you brought this back up (from the dead)..
For us, low to mid level encounters last 3 - 5 rounds.
Higher levels we tend to find combats last upwards of ten rounds but only because we find more "waves of enemies" rather than one room encounters. Much of those are from myself and the other DM having nearby rooms respond to,combat rather than as written in modules.
For our group, the changing dynamic of reinforcements etc makes for much more epic feeling fights at higher level.
Cheers