RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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For the joust, should there be a bonus to a character that actually has the Unseat feat? Considering that the joust rules already give everyone participating the bull rush check to knock them off their mount, I was thinking that in this context the Unseat feat would give a +2, as if it were a special case of improved bull rush.
Also, in the throne room, Q4, if the alarm is raised, and both Irovetti and Avinash are there, wouldn't it make sense for one of them to use dirge of doom, instead of both of them using inspire courgage, since that doesn't stack? Once Irovetti flees, then Avinash could switch to inspire courage if there are enough troops in the room to make it useful.
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Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but the map on p.33 seems to be mixed up. It looks like the bottom parts were swapped.
Been mentioned a time or six. Including this blog post from June with a corrected map. (It was a printer error, the first major one in Pathfinder history, and the PDFs are still correct.)
I noticed a while back that Irovetti has a Rod of Razors, but I can't find it in any book. Can someone give me a book and page number so I can know what it does.
I noticed a while back that Irovetti has a Rod of Razors, but I can't find it in any book. Can someone give me a book and page number so I can know what it does.Page 46. In... well, War of the River Kings.
Thanks.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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When I wrote the module, the mass combat rules hadn’t been finished yet, so I had to come up with some likely battle scenarios that could run within the regular rules. I set them up as armies of a certain size and composition, and then designed a couple of ‘hero scenarios’ where the PCs could directly affect some critical part of the battle. In the course of the adventure, it was expected that the first attack would happen while the PCs were still at the festival; in fact, while celebrating their victory. A message would arrive by sending from Fort Drelev, the site of their victory in the previous adventure, and assuming that they had left the city in friendly hands.
The city, in the mod, was proposed to be attacked by an army of:
300 human soldiers (including 6 heavy catapults manned by expert artillerists)
100 Numerian barbarians
70 or so mercenaries (the Catspaw Marauders)
30 trolls (some of these would lead a battering ram attack)
20 elite archers
10 troll thunderlancers mounted on mastodons
10 wyverns with mounted elite archers
2 6-headed hydras
It was hard to guess where the mass combat numbers would end up, so this placeholder army was what I came up with, along with two combat scenarios that PCs could directly intervene in:
1. An attack on the gates by a bunch of trolls with a ram
2. Taking out the catapults bombarding the city, which would draw out the flying air cover wyvern/archers and (eventually) the enemy commander, General Dyre.
Gathering up an army from newfound allies at the festival, as well as marshaling whatever other resources they could, the PCs would mobilize to meet the threat. However, as they did so a second army would have been creeping into the city by stealth, swimming upriver underwater, to make a surprise attack on their capital city (presumed to be at the old Stag Lord fort site).
Anyway, James designed the quick-playing mass combat rules and reconstituted the armies as place-situated armies based in various hexes, at least at the start. PCs could encounter them while exploring them, or the DM could run the war as dynamic, which each side maneuvering its primary and reserve forces to destroy the enemy.
Still, in the spirit of fun, I thought about using the mass combat rules to stat up the armies I had originally envisioned and what they might be like. Some of my units, as it turns out, are way too small to count as “armies” for the mass combat rules; since a particular army might be made up of subunits of, say, 10 of a certain monster type as support units, those guys don’t count for much as an army even if they’re reasonably tough monsters. Say, an “army” of 10 wyverns (CR 6) has a Combat Value of 0, since 10 units = -6 to CR. As a result, I’ve had to adjust some of these a bit from the original to see what I come up with.
What I discovered was that, given the numbers of attackers I had assigned, these armies are likely to be pretty fragile individually, and given that they were broken up into types, it would obviously be more complex to run than if it were just one big, homogeneous army.
What I ended up with was:
four CR 4 armies (troll thunderlancers, Numerian barbarians, General Dyre, the Catspaw Marauders)
four CR 2 armies (Pitax battalion, siege train, Night Flight, and elite archers)
one CR 1 army (troll irregulars)
Ignoring the last one there, this adds up to effectively 6 x CR 4 or an aggregate army of CR 9.
In other words, probably more than enough to sack Drelev, given that the PCs won't likely have their primary army there. Still, faced up against, say, an Enormous militia (CR 9 by itself, with OM +9 and DV 19, with 49 hp), the individual units here might have a hard time, especially if that army adopts defensive tactics. Because of their relatively low CR, their attack and defense values aren't that great, so it would take them a while to chop through the hit points of the big army. Meanwhile, with a good roll the big army could wipe out one of the smaller ones in one shot. Unlikely, but possible.
In any case, for one big army against a lot of small ones, it is vastly to their advantage to fight defensively. Even with the OV penalty they'll still probably hit, but adding to their DV and reducing damage from EVERY army that attacks them is going to make them very hard to hurt without some big rolls.
I might have to run it out some time and see how it goes.
WAR OF THE RIVER KINGS ARMIES
TROLL THUNDERLANCERS (10 troll fighter 6 mounted on mastodons) - CR 4
Diminutive army of humanoids (giants)/animals
COMBAT
hp 18; DV 18; OM +8
Special Abilities: Cavalry Experts, Dirty Tricks*, Regeneration (acid, fire) 5, Significant Defense**
LOGISTICS
Speed 2, Consumption 2
Resources: Improved Armor (magic), Improved Weapons (magic), Mounts
* Since Dirty Tricks gives you a big melee bonus on your first round of melee, I figure this makes a good emulation for an initial brutal charge attack.
* In the mod, I had outfitted each troll thunderlancer equipped with potions of protection from acid and protection from fire. So, one way to model this, if you want to micromanage mass combat to this level (which I’m not sure is good idea or not), would be to have a preparatory buff that gives resistance/immunity count as a specialized type of Significant Defense. For this situation, I’d say you could make it: “Troll thunderlancers gain a +5 DV [halved, since it’s just protecting them, not their mounts] against the first acid and fire attack made against them in a battle.” The problem is, this makes you have to also micromanage attack forms. This is pretty easy if we’re talking about breath weapons, not so easy vs. spells.
Perhaps on a mass combat level it’s best to ignore situational defensive buffs, but it’s an idea to think about.
TROLL IRREGULARS (25 trolls/scrags) - CR 1
COMBAT
hp 4; DV 1; OM +1
Special Abilities: Regeneration (acid/fire)
Resources: -
LOGISTICS
Speed 2, Consumption 1
Wow, are these guys a bunch of chumps when translated into mass combat rules. Seems like 25 trolls should be tougher than that, but whatcha gonna do? On the plus side, they get all their hit points back every turn. On the minus side, if you drop them to 0 they're toast.
If a CR 1 army gets tactics, they'd certainly go all out with Relentless Brutality, but realistically their best option in a battle would be to use Cautious tactics, not so much for the -2 OV/+2 DV, but because it reduces damage against them by 3 points. Unless their attacker rolls pretty well for damage, the trolls' regeneration will keep it in the fight for a while. Still, not much more than a speed bump on the battlefield.
NIGHT FLIGHT (25 wyverns ridden by Fighter 6/Ranger 1 archers) – CR 2
Tiny army of dragons
COMBAT
hp 13; DV 17; OM +6
Special Abilities: Sniper Support, Poison
Resources: Improved Armor (magic), Improved Weapons (magic), Mobility Advantage, Mounts, Ranged Weapons
LOGISTICS
Speed 4, Consumption 1
These guys were very problematic, because you have mounts and riders that are the same CR of 6. That means you can’t have an army of 10 of them, since you use the higher CR of mount or rider, and either way that gets you nowhere, so I bumped them up to a group of 25.
The second challenge is: Which unit here is the base unit? Is it the wyverns? Or is it the riders? While the riders are dangerous, I decided to go with the wyverns themselves as the base unit
NUMERIAN BATTLERAGERS (100 human barbarian 5) - CR 4
Medium army of humanoids
COMBAT
hp 26; DV 15; OM 15
Special Abilities: Dirty Fighters*, Relentless Brutality
Resources: Improved Armor (mwk), Improved Weapons (mwk)
LOGISTICS
Speed 3, Consumption 2
* Like the the big cavalry charge from the Thunderlancers above, I figured the kind of short-term combat boost that barbarian rage could give you would work with dirty fighting, as it would last long enough to get in one big surge but wouldn't otherwise help you in the battle.
I wonder how in a mass battle situation you could or would model abilities like:
1 - Fast movement (okay, you're faster than typical infantry, but is that fast enough to make a mobility advantage ability)
2 - Uncanny Dodge/Improved Uncanny Dodge - maybe these could give you a specialized defensive bonus vs. creatures with the "Expert Flankers" ability or during an Ambush.
In the end, I would follow the KISS principle, but it's an interesting thing to think about.
PITAX BATTALION (200 human warrior 1) - CR 2
Large army of humanoids
COMBAT
hp 11; DV 12; OM 12
Special Abilities: Defensive Wall
Resources: Ranged Weapons
LOGISTICS
Speed 2, Consumption 1
These guys are pretty much just a bunch of mooks. Nothing special about them.
SIEGE TRAIN (100 human expert 4) - CR 2
Medium army of humanoids
COMBAT
hp 9; DV 13; OM 14
Special Abilities: Hold the Line
Resources: Improved Armor (mwk), Ranged Weapons, Siege Engines (x2)
LOGISTICS
Speed 2, Consumption 1
Having a dedicated siege crew is an interesting idea, and it would seem to make sense. They just take the "Hold the Line" tactic and the "Defensive" strategy every turn (total of +8 DV, -8 OV, -6 damage mod), because they aren't there to hurt anybody. As long as they survive, they reduce DV from defenses by 2d4 per round. As soon as the city walls and/or castle are down, they retreat.
I thought about doing these guys as a Tiny army built around the trolls or expert archers who, in the mod, I had set as guards on each catapult, which would give you a result similar to the above, but the implication that there would be that many trolls or high-level fighters as artillerists somehow didn't sit well with me.
Also in the mod I had given the artillerists a supply of oil of magic weapon to use on their siege engines. On an army-wide basis, this kind of thing would be included in the BP resource cost of providing "improved weapons (magic)" to your troops, but for a siege engine... it's another interesting corner case for whether buying individual-level buffs with cash could supplement doing mass combat strictly as a BP investment.
In general, I think that way lies madness... keep it all on the BP level and you'll end up with far fewer arguments sez I :).
P.S. I wonder if having Siege Engines should slow down an army?
ELITE ARCHERS (25 human fighter 6/Ranger 1 archers) – CR 2
Tiny army of humanoids
COMBAT
hp 11; DV 14; OM +4
Special Abilities: Sniper Support
Resources: Improved Armor (magic), Improved Weapons (magic), Ranged Weapons
LOGISTICS
Speed 2, Consumption 1
These guys are straightforward expert ranged units.
THE CATSPAW MARAUDERS (50 human fighter 4/rogue 3) - CR 4
Small army of humanoids
COMBAT
hp 18; DV 20; OM +10
Special Abilities: Expert Flankers, False Retreat
Resources: Improved Armor (magic), Improved Weapons (magic), Mounts, Ranged Weapons
LOGISTICS
Speed 3, Consumption 2
These guys were supposed to be an elite mercenary group about 70 strong - their numbers and classes were still sort of fuzzily defined, but I think something like this is a fair representation. Spellbreaker also would have been a good special ability for them.
The commander: GENERAL DYRE (ogre mage bard 7) - CR 4
Fine army of outsiders (1)
COMBAT
hp 18; DV 22 (32 vs. spellcasting units); OM +11
Special Abilities: Spellbreaker, Taunt
Resources: Improved Armor (magic), Improved Weapons (magic), Mobility Advantage, Ranged Weapons, Regeneration (acid/fire), Spell Resistance, Spellcasting
LOGISTICS
Speed 3, Consumption 2
I also had a pair of 6-headed hydras to guard the river approaches, but those add up to zip in mass combat terms so I just dropped em.
How do you determine who wins the overall tournament if there is a tie? Say, two nations each get 2 wins and 2 second places? My first thought would be to go by who won the Midnight Joust, but is there a better way?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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The joust is probably good as the tiebreaker.
You could also award 3 points for a win and 1 point for 2nd place in the various events, so there could be a differentiation there (with a caveat that you must win at least ONE event - no fair coming in 2nd in every event and winning the title!).
First off, thanks for the Rushlight Tournament. My PCs became extremely ingenuitive and ended up winning every single competition-- even the king ended up tearing through the tournament while stinking drunk, and after Villamor Koth gave him a good stab with his lance, took him off his horse with a strong 20. ("I obviously just swung my lance in a massive sweep in front of me to hit all three of them.") Add to that some of the hilarious failures, like Navarathna actually missing two of her shots and not rolling higher than a 4 to pierce DR-- essentially ending her turn with a hefty score of 0-- made it pretty memorable for the group.
Mass Combat on the other hand doesn't seem to be their thing. My group is either pretty adept at strategy games or bored to tears by them-- and, well, right off the bat they just had all of their armies swarm attack each other army in turn, annihilating it on the first phase and taking minimal damage. I ended up just running real combat concurrently that I just pulled straight out of my rear.
Needless to say most of us were kind of bored by mass combat but ended up really enjoying the *real* combat, so I'm letting Mass Combat drop to the background in lieu of having the PCs explore the Glenebon Uplands for Irovetti's "Horn of Cloudkill." The thing is, I'd like some opinions on what kind of encounters to put into the reserve army's hexes: So far, I have six wyverns in dangerous terrain for K., six hill giants with four mastodons for I., and Villamor Koth and five Pitax Wardens and three Pitax Heralds for J. The Catspaw Camp sounds like it can just be destroyed by their army-- a ton of low level rogues doesn't sound like much more than a time waster.
Any opinions?
The thing is, I'd like some opinions on what kind of encounters to put into the reserve army's hexes: So far, I have six wyverns in dangerous terrain for K., six hill giants with four mastodons for I., and Villamor Koth and five Pitax Wardens and three Pitax Heralds for J. The Catspaw Camp sounds like it can just be destroyed by their army-- a ton of low level rogues doesn't sound like much more than a time waster.
If you're going "mass combat in the background" I might suggest a couple of the following:
Scouting out where the armies are located, so your background armies can take them out.
Also, approaching some of those armies to coerce, bribe, or generally lead them away from Irovetti is an option.
Thirdly, infilltration and sabotage of the enemy's army. Not just "blow up their camp", but you can also destroy water and food supplies, alter or change maps of the area, and a variety of other ways to cause havoc to the enemy commanders.
Lastly, having the armies clash and your PCs doing their own side-combat against the leaders of the enemy army is another way to go. While the battle rages around them, getting past the enemy lines and attacking the Generals could be exciting as well as giving regular combat opportunities.
Just some ideas. Good luck!
I have a question regarding the initial attack from Pitax after the tournament.
Is it intended for the PC's to lose one of their cities and then find out about the attack after it has fallen? Or, is it meant for them to hear that they are "under attack" and then have time to run to the rescue?
Also - the AP states that Pitax has 3 forces in the field. I have read the mass combat rules, but I don't see anything on how to handle 3 armies attacking 1 army (or 1 city).
I'm trying to decide how to handle it, but it seems that they would need to find out they are at war, then marshal their forces, then bring them to bear.
I considered having the Pitax attack hit Varnhold first, because it is farthest away and would be difficult to bring a counterattack. It would also come from a direction away from Pitax and that may move their attention to the east, while they are attacked later from the west by other forces.
Anyone have any advice or ideas on how the events should unfold?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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My original thought had been for Irovetti to leave the tournament while the PCs are gone at Whiterose Abbey. They would come back to confront him, but he'd be gone; however, they could rally the other River Kings present to support them taking action against Irovetti personally after a trial/diplomacy event where they try to do that. Then, there would be the final joust event (things were organized a bit differently). PCs could use their renown to recruit soldiers from amongst the many mercenaries and such at the tourney.
Then, just when things were going well, they would get a sending from Drelev that it was under attack. They would have a few days to get their armies together and get there.
Once that battle was begun, they would get another sending from their capital city saying IT was under attack as well. They'd have to decide whether to stay in the field at Drelev, move on to the capital, split their forces, etc.
Since the mass combat rules weren't written yet, there were some prospective small armies, plus some leader types, with the idea being that PCs would have about 3 "event" things per battle they could do to influence the outcome of the battle (destroy siege engines, stop a ram attack on the gates, defeat leaders directly, etc.).
I would lean towards the attack on their territory being a surprise attack. If they have taken precautions or if the outlying cities are big enough, they could get magical warning. Otherwise, they might just return home after the tournament to discover the war in full force. That would be rather jarring.
"Let's go home and gather ourselves to go get that creep Irovetti"
[teleport home]
"OMG the city is in FIRE!!!!! To arms! To arms!"
What I'm saying is, I think the effect of the war is much more satisfying when they are PLUNGED into it, rather than being able to approach it on their own timetable.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I have a question regarding the initial attack from Pitax after the tournament.
Is it intended for the PC's to lose one of their cities and then find out about the attack after it has fallen? Or, is it meant for them to hear that they are "under attack" and then have time to run to the rescue?
Also - the AP states that Pitax has 3 forces in the field. I have read the mass combat rules, but I don't see anything on how to handle 3 armies attacking 1 army (or 1 city).
Each army can attack one other army.
If it's 3 against 1, all 3 can attack the defending army, but the 1 army must choose one of the attacking armies to attack back.
What page has the BP cost for the armies on it? Now that I need it I can't find it.
Thanks in advance.
What page has the BP cost for the armies on it? Now that I need it I can't find it.
Thanks in advance.
An army is worth its Consumption cost, which itself is its CR / 2, per week.
Ugh, Irovettis palace is freaking ginormous. As it is, it seems that it won't even fit on table ( already with a battlemap embedded ) we are using. Is there any believable way the PC's can get a complete map of it, so that I can simply print it out ( removing the secret doors with Paint ) and only draw the relevant rooms for battles?
I'm trying to figure out how many armies the PCs can gather and how long it will take. Is it based on their kingdom population? their city population? the number of barracks they have? And then what is their CR? Are we to assume a certain number of persons at a particular level per unit of population? There don't seem to be any explanations in the rules about this. Can someone help?
Ugh, Irovettis palace is freaking ginormous. As it is, it seems that it won't even fit on table ( already with a battlemap embedded ) we are using. Is there any believable way the PC's can get a complete map of it, so that I can simply print it out ( removing the secret doors with Paint ) and only draw the relevant rooms for battles?
Yes. Spies. In fact, they might meet one before going there, you'll recall.
Ugh, Irovettis palace is freaking ginormous. As it is, it seems that it won't even fit on table ( already with a battlemap embedded ) we are using. Is there any believable way the PC's can get a complete map of it, so that I can simply print it out ( removing the secret doors with Paint ) and only draw the relevant rooms for battles?Yes. Spies. In fact, they might meet one before going there, you'll recall.
Good. I'd hate to have to draw out that one completely... much too many long corridors and fidgety little rooms.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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In my original turnover, the palace was a living/working castle and the presumption was that there would be all manner of servants and such roaming the place, rather than being basically empty except for the guards. I thought it might make for an interesting bit of challenging battlefield terrain, dealing with innocents in the crossfire.
Of course, there were also a lot more traps in there too, since Irovetti is a paranoid bastard... :)
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I'm trying to figure out how many armies the PCs can gather and how long it will take. Is it based on their kingdom population? their city population? the number of barracks they have? And then what is their CR? Are we to assume a certain number of persons at a particular level per unit of population? There don't seem to be any explanations in the rules about this. Can someone help?
Officially, you can make as many armies you can afford, and you can create them any time you like, presumably during your one week a month of kingdom management.
Unofficially, I was working on an expansive update of the army rules that dealt with issues like this, including the use of garrisons and barracks in creating armies, but got busy with some upcoming freelance projects and had to put that on the back burner. I may be able to get back to it in the near future, though, at which point I could post it for those who are interested.
What military force is stationed in Pitax itself? A buddy and I have gone over the issue multiple times and have yet to find actual numbers for the forces in Pitax.
What military force is stationed in Pitax itself? A buddy and I have gone over the issue multiple times and have yet to find actual numbers for the forces in Pitax.
There are no specific numbers. It is left up to the DM. It is assumed Pitax has a certain amount of BP(300?) to use to build its army.
What military force is stationed in Pitax itself? A buddy and I have gone over the issue multiple times and have yet to find actual numbers for the forces in Pitax.There are no specific numbers. It is left up to the DM. It is assumed Pitax has a certain amount of BP(300?) to use to build its army.
I just ran the siege last night...
If you look at the entry under Pitax, you will see a 2,000 man Regiment and 2 500 "man" Troll Regiments.
The humans are led by the Pitax General (Jurrg, CHA bonus +6) and the trolls are led by "advanced trolls" (CHA bonus +0).
Pitax has 300 BP (-20 per army they have lost) to withstand the siege.
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What military force is stationed in Pitax itself? A buddy and I have gone over the issue multiple times and have yet to find actual numbers for the forces in Pitax.There are no specific numbers. It is left up to the DM. It is assumed Pitax has a certain amount of BP(300?) to use to build its army.I just ran the siege last night...
If you look at the entry under Pitax, you will see a 2,000 man Regiment and 2 500 "man" Troll Regiments.
The humans are led by the Pitax General (Jurrg, CHA bonus +6) and the trolls are led by "advanced trolls" (CHA bonus +0).
Pitax has 300 BP (-20 per army they have lost) to withstand the siege.
I thought there was a post started on 'Pitax' expansion options but I can't seem to find it. If any GMs added Pitax adventures can you share please. Thank you!
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I thought there was a post started on 'Pitax' expansion options but I can't seem to find it. If any GMs added Pitax adventures can you share please. Thank you!What military force is stationed in Pitax itself? A buddy and I have gone over the issue multiple times and have yet to find actual numbers for the forces in Pitax.There are no specific numbers. It is left up to the DM. It is assumed Pitax has a certain amount of BP(300?) to use to build its army.I just ran the siege last night...
If you look at the entry under Pitax, you will see a 2,000 man Regiment and 2 500 "man" Troll Regiments.
The humans are led by the Pitax General (Jurrg, CHA bonus +6) and the trolls are led by "advanced trolls" (CHA bonus +0).
Pitax has 300 BP (-20 per army they have lost) to withstand the siege.
nvm found it. The fate of Pitax.
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I have a bit of a problem with Irovetti's stats in this adventure.
Firstly, Irovetti's attack and damage appears to be wrong. Both appear 1 point too low. I suspect that weapon training hasn't been factored in; in fact, it's utterly missing from his stat block. Did he originally have less levels of fighter?
Secondly - and this is the big one - Irovett's stats appear to be totally off the wall. According to his gear, he has no stat-boosting items at all. Yet he somehow manages stats of 18, 18, 20, 12, 8, 22 on a 20-pt buy with 4 stat points and +2 racial? Even assuming that the 18 Dex includes the effects of a cat's grace spell, he still has to account for stats of 18, 14, 20, 12, 8, 22. He can't have started with a natural stat (pre racial mod) above 18, and has 6 points to allocate between level ups and racial. He must have applied 4 points to his Charisma and 2 to his Con. That gives his base natural stats as 18, 14, 18, 12, 8, 18. That's a...56 point buy. So what am I missing? Was he supposed to have a headband of +4 Cha and a belt of +4 Str and +4 Con? Because then the numbers would work.
Oh, and Irovetti's CMD is 1 point too low. Probably missed off haste bonus.
Ugh... yeah, for whatever reason, his headband of Charisma +6 and his belt of Str +4/Con +4 didn't make it into his stat block. (A quick adding-up of his gear bears this out; he's about 80,000 gp short of actually having 315,000 gp of gear, which is what he SHOULD have considering he's a 16th level character with PC wealth.)
Reason #25 why it's good to be caught up on the schedule = we get to spend more time editing and developing the words.
caught something and need some clarification.
as I understood from the background story, Naryssa is Irovetti's muse, which would mean the following:"As long as the nymph retains her favor for this creature and as long as the creature carries the nymph’s token, the creature gains a +4 insight bonus on all Will saving throws,...
Officially, you can make as many armies you can afford, and you can create them any time you like, presumably during your one week a month of kingdom management.
Unofficially, I was working on an expansive update of the army rules that dealt with issues like this, including the use of garrisons and barracks in creating armies, but got busy with some upcoming freelance projects and had to put that on the back burner. I may be able to get back to it in the near future, though, at which point I could post it for those who are interested. That would be great Jason. Thank you in advance.
Don't know if this has been asked before, but what is the morale of an army who has just been conscripted? Page 59 says it depends on the result of a Loyalty check, but which check is this? Has it been mentioned before? Is there a ratio "result achieved = starting morale"?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Don't know if this has been asked before, but what is the morale of an army who has just been conscripted? Page 59 says it depends on the result of a Loyalty check, but which check is this? Has it been mentioned before? Is there a ratio "result achieved = starting morale"?
I don't know where the post is at this point, but I'm pretty sure that James stated that phrase is an error; more specifically, an editing artifact from an earlier version of the rules. In the current incarnation of the rules, starting armies have a morale modifier of 0.
Just hit session 43 and Irovettis invitation has arrived
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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bit confused on the timelines of the festival and Irovetti.
Irovetti came to power at least six years before the war events, but more like 8 as I gather from the adventure background
the festival is an annual event of some note and has been since Irovetti siezed the throne
the players kingdom is a neighboring one, and by this time probably a sizable one at that.why wouldn't the players know of, visit, or even participate in the festival in previous years?
I guess this depends on the pace of kingdom building and daring the journey. could be that they simply aren't invited yet to participate as a fledgling kingdom. Also depends on when Irovetti comes to power and establishes the event relative to the party's kingdom.
As I had written it, he had come to power 6 years ago, and the tournament happened only every FIVE years. Because of that, the tourney had been held right after he took power (and Pitax lost), and now he wants to load up and WIN this time.
Five years ago, the PCs and their "kingdom" would've been such small potatoes that he wouldn't have invited them, and they wouldn't have had any contacts that would've informed them. That, and there would be a lot of wilderness in betwee.
Now, that stated, if you want to run the tourney as an annual event, then feel free to include "news and rumors" about it to give the PCs a heads-up. For that matter, you could even use the rules in it (or the extended remix version) to generate mini-tournaments, either for the PCs to sponsor, or just smaller versions for them to participate in, thereby earning a bit of reputation (if they win) to build up towards hitting the "big time" tournament in Pitax. I had a long convo with Lisa Stevens at PaizoCon and that is how she is planning to do it; her campaign is just finishing Rivers Run Red I believe, and she is going to give them a few tastes of tournament life earlier in their careers.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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the muse issue anyone?I have a bit of a problem with Irovetti's stats in this adventure.
Firstly, Irovetti's attack and damage appears to be wrong. Both appear 1 point too low. I suspect that weapon training hasn't been factored in; in fact, it's utterly missing from his stat block. Did he originally have less levels of fighter?
Secondly - and this is the big one - Irovett's stats appear to be totally off the wall. According to his gear, he has no stat-boosting items at all. Yet he somehow manages stats of 18, 18, 20, 12, 8, 22 on a 20-pt buy with 4 stat points and +2 racial? Even assuming that the 18 Dex includes the effects of a cat's grace spell, he still has to account for stats of 18, 14, 20, 12, 8, 22. He can't have started with a natural stat (pre racial mod) above 18, and has 6 points to allocate between level ups and racial. He must have applied 4 points to his Charisma and 2 to his Con. That gives his base natural stats as 18, 14, 18, 12, 8, 18. That's a...56 point buy. So what am I missing? Was he supposed to have a headband of +4 Cha and a belt of +4 Str and +4 Con? Because then the numbers would work.
Oh, and Irovetti's CMD is 1 point too low. Probably missed off haste bonus.
Ugh... yeah, for whatever reason, his headband of Charisma +6 and his belt of Str +4/Con +4 didn't make it into his stat block. (A quick adding-up of his gear bears this out; he's about 80,000 gp short of actually having 315,000 gp of gear, which is what he SHOULD have considering he's a 16th level character with PC wealth.)
caught something and need some clarification.
as I understood from the background story, Naryssa is Irovetti's muse, which would mean the following:"As long as the nymph retains her favor for this creature and as long as the creature carries the nymph’s token, the creature gains a +4 insight bonus on all Will saving throws,...
I didn't include anything about her as his game-mechanically-relevant muse - she was just a fey hottie that he totally fell in love with, so I'm afraid I don't have much to add on the subject, other than to say anything that buffs up Irovetti is probably to the good. :)
I have a question regarding the initial attack from Pitax after the tournament.
Is it intended for the PC's to lose one of their cities and then find out about the attack after it has fallen? Or, is it meant for them to hear that they are "under attack" and then have time to run to the rescue?
Also - the AP states that Pitax has 3 forces in the field. I have read the mass combat rules, but I don't see anything on how to handle 3 armies attacking 1 army (or 1 city).
I'm trying to decide how to handle it, but it seems that they would need to find out they are at war, then marshal their forces, then bring them to bear.
I considered having the Pitax attack hit Varnhold first, because it is farthest away and would be difficult to bring a counterattack. It would also come from a direction away from Pitax and that may move their attention to the east, while they are attacked later from the west by other forces.
Anyone have any advice or ideas on how the events should unfold?
It is likely that Pitax simply sends an army all the way 'round Mivon, in which case it would be possible - albiet somewhat costly in the supply train side of things - to swing an army (or army group) southeasterly then up north along the eastern slopes of the Tors before swinging west across the hills between the Tors and the Dunsward.
That army is on something of a suicide mission though - come back with their shields, or on them. So I suspect it would be fairly formidable. Depending on whether or not your group's kingdom even has a standing army will determine things from there.
I would imagine the Order of Battle would be fairly straightforward upon arrival:
Engage in full-blown brigandige en route to assault and/or lay siege on Varnhold. This force could have a small budget allocated to field-construct and maintain 1 or 2 siege engines for 1 month, along with the attendant "consumption budget", depending on what Pitax's intelligence revealed about Varnhold's defenses at the time of this army group's departure. This group's entire purpose is to draw as much of the enemy's forces east as possible.
Once the planned time table - verified by scrying or the like - looks to be holding its shape and the assault on Varnhold begins in earnest, the signal to begin the 'real war' is given and the bulk of Pitax's forces are put into play. Fort Drelev is the priority target in all likelyhood, a lone outpost along the PCs' entire western frontier securing the vital Sellene River trade route. A target of this importance would be hammered flat as fast as possible. Ground troops, once Drelev is a smoking ruin (or captured, depending upon the force defending it), Pitax's forces would then swing north around the Slough and into the northwestern approach into the Glenebon Highlands. Air-mobile troops would most likely sweep south to cross the Slough at its narrowest point before threatening the southwestern-most city of the PCs from that angle.
Timing is crucial, as it would be hoped that the eastern army group would have been able to sufficiently draw out the main body of the PCs armed forces far enough off balance to permit Dreleve to be sacked before they can swing back to the west. If the force in the east is sufficiently well-led, they could even succeed better than planned for.
If this is able to happen while Restov is embroiled in a "hot" civil war, thus denying succor to the PCs' kingdom from that front, so much the better.
At a rough estimate, it's a march of some 600 miles (50 hexes) for the eastern group's march the long way 'round Mivon through no-man's lands. This group would have to be mounted to make decent speed (4 hexes per day), although the supply train would probably slow this to 3 hexes per day. Taking something of a liberty with the unmapped terrain, figure 3 weeks from when the eastern group is sent until "phase 2" is ordered to make ready. It's 7 hexes from Pitax to Fort Drelev - 3 1/2 days' march for typical ground troops. It is 9 hexes from the site of the Stag Lord's fort to Varnhold and likely the same distance from Drelev to any other city that the PCs have built - this could easily be another 3 hexes if their westernmost city is sited on the Stag Lord's fort, although Oleg's Trading Post is a bit closer and has fewer hexes of forests to slow down travel from Drelev. Travel time could be complicated by an absence of roads through the forests of the Narlmarches.
I recommend that a day per battle be fought - one tactic phase, one ranged phase, one or two melee phases - from morning to night depending upon the time of year and the armies themselves. Army Group East could very deliberatly be comprised exclusively of men on horse with supply train in tow to maximize the time it takes to combat them. Perhaps this group deliberately fights Defensively, deploying siege engines for 1 melee phase per day to slowly wear down Varnhold's walls and fortifications, depending upon the specifics of your particular Varnhold, until their scouts sight the PCs forces pouring through Varnhold Pass or coming down the road from Restov.
Day 0 - "Army Group East" is ordered to execute "Plan G" and starts its march, expecting to arrive in Varnhold's vicinity on Day 21.
(Adjust accordingly if they are to loot, pillage and plunder through eastern farmlands en route to Varnhold. After 3 weeks' march, they may do so on their own accord as they realize that they are in the lands of the enemy.)
Day 29 - "Army Group West" is ordered to execute "Plan Z" and starts its march on Fort Drelev, expecting to arrive in 3 days' march.
Day 30 - Army Group East reaches Varnhold's eastern territory (enters the hex) and lays siege, cutting off the Pass and the road north to Restov. The PCs rush forces east to repel the assault upon Varnhold, ideally leaving a thinner defense on their western front. Varnhold is laid siege or laid waste - several days may pass depending on the specifics (see above). A mounted army can reach Varnhold in 2 or 3 days' march from the site of the Stag Lord's fort. Infantry will require 4 1/2 days' time to traverse this same distance.
Day 31 1/2 - Army Group West reaches Fort Drelev and begins its assault. Earliest arrival of friendly forces in relief of Varnhold.
Day 31 1/2 or as late as Day 35 - news of the assault on Drelev reaches the PCs, depending on their specific set up this could be within mere moments of siting the armies of Pitax crossing into Drelev's hex, or 2 to 4 days' hard ride by horse for a messenger that escaped from Drelev before the city is encircled and that siege begins in earnest. (11 hexes from Drelev to Oleg's Trading Post.)
Day 32-35 - Fort Drelev is captured, conquered or razed. Looting, pillaging and plundering. Latest arrival of friendly forces to relieve Varnhold. If Varnhold has been taken, Army Group East bivouacs in Varnhold, seeking to recoup as much of its strength as possible before any counterattack strikes home - if it has not done so already.
Day 34 (35 at the latest) - Army Group West breaks its flying troops directly across the 4 hexes across Lake Hooktongue to rest in the westernmost area of the Narlmarches or leaves them barrack'd in Drelev depending upon their fly speed and the PCs cities across the Slough from Drelev. Infantry and other ground troops most likely march north around the Slough to flank them along the northwestern border. If a city is sited on the Temple of Erastil, depending upon how it compares to any city sited at Oleg's Trading Post would determine which was the strategic objective of importance. The Temple of Erastil is closer but in far more defensible terrain. If Army Group West is comprised of combined arms forces, they may take a calculated risk and split cavalry and aerial troops off to attack the Trading Post in advance of the main body hitting the Temple.
A force is left in Drelev to serve as point of supply and as the initial fall back position for Army Group West, especially if it is known that the PCs have brokered successful relations with various "monsters" in their realm. While it is not a primary strongpoint, until other cities are taken from the PCs, it is strategically important enough that some significant effort would be expended to assign a loyal force to defend and rebuilt Drelev into a defensible location as rapidly as possible. The week after Drelev is captured is when Pitax expends a hefty effort in erecting viable defenses as part of its kingdom turn - a castle and 4 city walls should work nicely (+12 DV or more). Militias are raised and equipped by the remainder of Pitax's capacity during this turn, primarily to serve as fodder (as are all militia) for the crack units.
Example of this two-pronged assault: Days 35-39 - infantry marches onto the temple town, arriving on Day 39. The same time sees the cavalry and aerial troops hit the trading post, arriving on Day 39.
By this time it has been only 9 days' time since Army Group East sledgehammered Varnhold, most likely resulting in either (a) a siege in progress upon Varnhold, or (b) Varnhold having been sacked, or (c) Army Group East having been routed or destroyed.
Depending on how poorly or well Army Group East has done for Pitax, an infantry army could relieve Varnhold in a day or two to as long as five days once the alarm is sounded, with cavalry and similar fast-moving armies able to respond faster.
If your group has formed an especially formidable military, I suggest that Pitax and Mivon have quietly fashioned themselves an outright alliance oriented against these upstarts...
I would guesstimate Pitax and Mivon respectively at approxomately 120 hexes in total area apiece.
The write up of the Gardener has a "Melee corrupting touch +8/+3 (13d6/×3)", but the PRD says "Corrupting Touch (Su): All ghosts gain this incorporeal touch attack. By passing part of its incorporeal body through a foe's body as a standard action,...". Which is correct, is it an attack, thus giving multiple attacks (3 with haste), or is it a standard action (so still 1 with haste)?
The write up of the Gardener has a "Melee corrupting touch +8/+3 (13d6/×3)", but the PRD says "Corrupting Touch (Su): All ghosts gain this incorporeal touch attack. By passing part of its incorporeal body through a foe's body as a standard action,...". Which is correct, is it an attack, thus giving multiple attacks (3 with haste), or is it a standard action (so still 1 with haste)?
^_^ My answer is "an attack".
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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The write up of the Gardener has a "Melee corrupting touch +8/+3 (13d6/×3)", but the PRD says "Corrupting Touch (Su): All ghosts gain this incorporeal touch attack. By passing part of its incorporeal body through a foe's body as a standard action,...". Which is correct, is it an attack, thus giving multiple attacks (3 with haste), or is it a standard action (so still 1 with haste)?
It should be a standard action, like casting a touch spell would be, so iterative attacks should not be allowed.
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I wish I had noticed this earlier (as my last session of Book 5 is probably today) but... where is Asmerdanda? The back cover lists a quest called the "Missing Diva", where a woman named Asmeranda is believed to be somewhere in King Irovetti's palace. I can't find any mention of her in the adventure itself, however. Any ideas?
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I wish I had noticed this earlier (as my last session of Book 5 is probably today) but... where is Asmerdanda? The back cover lists a quest called the "Missing Diva", where a woman named Asmeranda is believed to be somewhere in King Irovetti's palace. I can't find any mention of her in the adventure itself, however. Any ideas?
Yeah, I noticed that little omission when I ran this adventure. As far as I can tell, she isn't mentioned in the palace. I'd slip her in somewhere along the way, either in one of the ground-floor salons (in which case she's sort of a prisoner, unwiling to try and bust out past lots of scary trolls and suchlike) or in the cells beneath (for the actual prisoner scenario). In my game, my party pretty much had one long knockdown dragout fight throughout the entire palace, so I just narrated them finding and freeing her in the wrap-up.
Ok, so my group of 5 players have finished part 4 and explored all of the hooktongue map. Their kingdom is in the neighborhood of 115 hexes and seem to be ready to start part 5. However they only just hit level 12. My question is are they ready to start part 5 even though they are at level 12, or should I create some content (a possible invitation to join the Outlaw Council, or perhaps Ol' Hooktongue wakes up, or perhaps something happens at Candelmere, or maybe all three...) and try to get them to 13 before I start the War of the River Kings?
Any advice is much appreciated. Also, this part seems like it might require the least number of sessions to finish... is that correct?
Thanks,
Frank
Depends on how you play out the war itself. If you do "war in the background", it should play out in anywhere from 2 to 4 sessions. Waging war in full will add to this, especially if you've elected to take things a bit further than "scripted".
Depends on how you play out the war itself. If you do "war in the background", it should play out in anywhere from 2 to 4 sessions. Waging war in full will add to this, especially if you've elected to take things a bit further than "scripted".I'm going to play out the war. I've decided to include a little mini adventure where the PCs are invited to join the Outlaw Council. This will let them meet Irovetti, and encourage them to hopefully attend the tournament once they see everyone else is planning to attend... well, at least the major River Kingdoms are planning on attending. I am planning on having a blitz attack on Fort Drelev that is coordinated with a minor attack on Varnhold. The Varnhold attack will consist of one flight of Wyverns. Fort Drelev will be attacked by the humans and trolls. If they don't immediately start the battle at Fort Drelev with some early gains, Irovetti's forces will lay siege to it.
How important is it that the PCs are level 13 by the start of this?
Frank
I suggest the wyverns hit Varnhold early enough that the attention of the PCs is drawn there. Once the "western army group" crosses the border en route to Fort Drelev, the PCs will be forced to decide. I would suggest - given the baddies' information gathering capabilities - that "eastern army group" pack enough punch to actually draw decent strength to deal with them.
Planning is everything. Varnhold in this case is the feint to draw your PCs main strength east to deal with that threat. It needs enough strength to succeed in that goal before the hammerstroke lands upon Fort Drelev. The Catspaw Marauders are mounted - and the wyverns are intelligent. They can "pair up" with the Marauders to strike Varnhold from the east. This attack needs to hit early enough to permit "western army group" enough time to reach Fort Drelev from the kingdom's western border (at least theoretically unhindered) while the main strength of the kingdom was drawn eastward to repel the "eastern army group" before having to wheel around and march the entire length of the kingdom back to the west. One flight of wyverns won't be too likely to draw that response. Wyverns flying cover for a ground force probably will.
That's the point of the feint against Varnhold - they'll hopefully panic and send too much east before Varnhold's puny walls and watchtower crumble while leaving a thinner guard against Drelev.
Concentration of firepower combined with siege engines under cautious strategy [intent is to take no damage while each army's engines batter down the defenses] until the defenses are down to their last +2 or so before the all-out assault takes place. Sieging Drelev need not be a normal "starve them out" siege with the balance of forces available from the west. :)