In Greece, there are two distributors of RPG products. They don't bring PF products because they don't expect demand. The 4e is not selling. Getting some figures from many shops in Athens, I am positive about it. If PF products were available in these stores I believe they would be sold at least equally well as the 4e. It seems that there is a demand for Warhammer 40000 RPG also. Being involved in the Greek RPG forum I say that there are several customers of PF, buying their books from Amazon, from comics stores that could bring PF from their distributor in England (I am using this way) or directly from PAIZO.Can you provide the names of these distributors? I'd love to drop them a line.
--Erik
Hi Erik!
The first one is "Kaissa" (19 shops in Greece with their brand name).
http://www.kaissagames.com
A direct contact point you could use is
john_palaiologos@kaissagames.com (he is not the owner of the company but he could fwd your message to him).
It is the main distributor of WotC catalog.
The second one is "Fantasy Shop". There are 15-20 shops with their brand name too.
http://www.fantasyshop.gr/
It is the main distributor of White Wolf catalog.
Almost every hobby shop in Greece belongs to these two brand names.
I have discussed it with the owners of "Kaissa". There is a major decline in demand of RPG products in Greece and they are reluctant to invest into a new line of products.
Best regards,
Dimitris
In my area (Taipei, Taiwan)...I asked our FLGS
I certainly hope that you see this message. This is one of those times when I really wish we could PM people on these boards.
I am In Taichung, Taiwan.
I didn't know there was a game shop in the country. The only place I have ever seen any RPG products on sale is at Page One.
I resigned myself to being hundreds of kilometers from any game shops whatsoever.
If you see this post, which is by no means guaranteed, please email me at
talhoyle@yahoo.com
I will not be able to find this game shop on my own.
Where I live we don't really have a gaming shop. We have comic shop that sells some gaming stuff mostly 4th edition and White Wolf games. He doesn't stock anything from Paizo but the core rules book and only gets on copy in at time. It seems to sell as that spot on the shelf often clear every other time I go in there. So someone is buying them, I know my group bought them there.
In a larger city about 3 hours away they have huge gaming store, that store has a shelf Pazio stuff as big as the 4E stuff. Love going there and browsing, I always drop at least $50 when I'm there.
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+1 to Nate. I wish there were more good gaming stores in my area.
Where exactly are you at? I saw you at U-Con, so you can't be too far from the Metro Detroit area, right? I think our local PF contingent can suggest at least a few stores in that area and surroundings. Not as many good places since Riders went out of business, but we try to support our local B&M stores.
Oh, by the way -- thanks for the site. My groups use it on a constant basis at every single session, and I cut-and-paste my session prep from there all the time for easy reference. Having the Bestiary stuff available in an ASCII format has made my life incredibly easier when I need to tweak/advance a monster and take some notes on what it can do.
Where exactly are you at? I saw you at U-Con, so you can't be too far from the Metro Detroit area, right? I think our local PF contingent can suggest at least a few stores in that area and surroundings. Not as many good places since Riders went out of business, but we try to support our local B&M stores.
I live in Royal Oak. There's a store literally a half mile from me (which shall remain nameless in case he or his customers read this) but I have not been terribly impressed by the store. There is very little content, especially Pathfinder. The minis they have are extremely limited (unless you want to buy stupid random packs of WoTC plastic minis which I despise). The owner is not terribly talkative or seemingly knowledgeable on Pathfinder. They do a side business doing print on demand, and I know a buddy who has used them for that which I guess they're good at, but in general I would have just liked a bit more (?) from the experience. I'm all for supporting the FLGS but really, only if there is a reason to. If I can get content online for up to 40% cheaper and I'm not getting any real positive experience from visiting the FLGS, sorry but the FLGS loses.
As for U-Con... how/where did you see me? Did we talk? I played in a Pathfinder scenario game at WinterCon at Oakland University for the first time btw. That was decent (but I have other issues there).
I do know about Pandemonium, which I visited back in the 90's when I was into MtG. They were (and probably still are) kind of the big dog when it comes to popular stores. I haven't been there in many years though since its pretty out of my way. I am playing on occasion with a group in Westland now though so I might stop in to see how the place has changed.
Oh, by the way -- thanks for the site. My groups use it on a constant basis at every single session, and I cut-and-paste my session prep from there all the time for easy reference. Having the Bestiary stuff available in an ASCII format has made my life incredibly easier when I need to tweak/advance a monster and take some notes on what it can do.
No problem on the site! Glad people appreciate it. Its not just my baby anymore though, there's a ton of people working on it and adding new stuff to it every day. Its kind of out of control really and I am now kind of moving out of a "developer" role and into a "keep this beast organized" role. Just trying to keep track of who all is doing what is a major project management challenge. The site is extremely popular it seems. I don't know what other sites get in the way of daily traffic but what we're getting sure seems strong. I love hearing positive feedback too as I have a massive ego so feel free to stroke that ego whenever you get the urge :)
Anyway, as I always say, we are always looking for more help as we have tons of things going on on the site. Anyone who wants in or can help us improve the site is welcome. All I need from folks is a Google ID. The interface is really easy and you don't have to be a web developer or know anything special to help, you just have to have some spare time and a desire to contribute :)
AH! Small world, John ^_^ I know who that is, actually the POD is more than a side business, its the bulk of the business. I won't say much more, but the whole idea was basically to do the POD with some games as side support. They specifically went after lines that could "sell themselves", and if I recall he had little good to say about Wizards stuff in general himself, just stocked it because *every* game store sells Magic/D&D. So I know that was mostly a conscious decision to stock the popular lines to generate extra sales beyond the POD.
Not to side-track this too much but just to be clear, I don't have anything in particular against the owner or the store just that he didn't seem terribly enthusiastic about things. One of the guys I game with regularly actually went to school with the owner and they knew each other as kids. I'm sure he's a great guy, I just wasn't terrible excited about the experience. I still go there now and then to see what he has or if his knowledge of PF has picked up any but I don't really make a point to go there.
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John, I'd give him another chance. I was just in there last night, chatting him up. He actually kept me there talking a lot longer than I intended, once I got him going on things like the glut of 4E products (my term, not his -- he pointed to his stack of old 2E materials and said 'that, that was glut, I still get stuff in for resale that I've never seen before').
He's a good guy, he actually started stocking more Pathfinder stuff after I needled him a bit about it. I don't know him personally or anything, I just think I've gone in there enough for him to know my face. Anyway, for Royal Oak, it really is the closest/best place.
However... in Livonia, there's a group playing PFS every other weekend at RIW Hobby at Five and Middlebelt, and that place is awesome. Two big rooms for gaming, nice staff inside the actual store, and tons of Paizo materials.
Now that I know you live in Royal Oak, I might have to take you out to dinner or something to pay back for the SRD site. :-) Seriously, our online gaming group could not run smoothly without that site as an easy reference guide whenever we need to look up a rule. By this point, we've probably cut and pasted most of the content of the "Combat" chapter into our online chat sessions.
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Regardless of all that I have to agree that it's great to hear that Pathfinder is doing well, but as mentioned we really need to make a point of promoting the game.I'd love to promote it. But to do that, I'd have to find people who are into RPGs who aren't beyond the bend crazy.
There are two kinds of people who play these kinds of games. One group is best represented by the 40 year old man whom I watched get up and leave the room crying crazy tears because his character had to pay taxes on gold (I was a player, not the GM, I was totally stunned and didn't say a word during the whole thing). Another representation is the 27 year old man whom I was stuck listening to for about an hour gloating over how he'd found the perfect arrangement of feats/skills/class/prestige class/etc. to get some crazy totally munchkinized bonus on his character sheet.
The other group is the rest of us.
Unfortunately, where I've recently moved (northern Virginia) seems to be swarming with the first kind of people and the second kind of people are in hiding.
wow... that said, I live in the northern virginia area, and yes, we stay hidden, lest we meet the first kind. we're more like closet gamers. heh.
That said, everyone in the group have bought their own copy of Pathfinder paper copy, doing our part to increase the sales. :-)
One thing I don't get is why more B&M stores don't buy and sell used product, especially if you "buy" it for store credit. Say a book costs $40 retail. You could buy it off of someone for $10 in store credit, this means that in order to not "waste" that, they have to purchase at least $10 of materials. Then you take that book and price it as used for $20 (a 100% profit). Then when some cheapskate comes in and says, "I can get this for $30 online so ... wait, you have a copy for $20! Sold!" The business just made $10 (plus any money over what they first guy bought with is store credit). The cheapskate now has a reason to swing buy on a regular basis and check out the store (maybe there will be another used book), might even pay full price for something they want right then (which is the main benefit of an actual store IMO, instant gradification). That is win-win. I'm sure I'm naively overlooking some details.
John, I'd give him another chance. I was just in there last night, chatting him up. He actually kept me there talking a lot longer than I intended, once I got him going on things like the glut of 4E products (my term, not his -- he pointed to his stack of old 2E materials and said 'that, that was glut, I still get stuff in for resale that I've never seen before').
He's a good guy, he actually started stocking more Pathfinder stuff after I needled him a bit about it. I don't know him personally or anything, I just think I've gone in there enough for him to know my face. Anyway, for Royal Oak, it really is the closest/best place.
Ok, that's good to know. I'll definitely stop in again sometime soon. It's literally like a half mile from my house. I walked there and bought the PF core book there (I asked him to order/reserve one for me). At the time of official release he only ordered 2 copies, one for me and one for the other guy I mentioned. I hope the interest level in PF has gone up enough now that he is more aware of it. I guess somewhat in his defense its not like I'm a terribly talkative guy anyway, though I will say I've tried to start up some small talk a couple of times.
However... in Livonia, there's a group playing PFS every other weekend at RIW Hobby at Five and Middlebelt, and that place is awesome. Two big rooms for gaming, nice staff inside the actual store, and tons of Paizo materials.
Ok, I'll have to check that place out too then the next time I'm in that area (not often, but occasionally).
Now that I know you live in Royal Oak, I might have to take you out to dinner or something to pay back for the SRD site. :-) Seriously, our online gaming group could not run smoothly without that site as an easy reference guide whenever we need to look up a rule. By this point, we've probably cut and pasted most of the content of the "Combat" chapter into our online chat sessions.
Heh. No treating for dinner needed. I'd be more than happy to just go out sometime though. You around Royal Oak?
You walked past me in the RPGA room, I saw your name tag, and said something nice about the site, that was it. You just have an easy to remember name.
As for U-Con... how/where did you see me? Did we talk?
Yeah, the "reyst" part is pretty rare.
I'd love to promote it. But to do that, I'd have to find people who are into RPGs who aren't beyond the bend crazy.
There are two kinds of people who play these kinds of games. One group is best represented by the 40 year old man whom I watched get up and leave the room crying crazy tears because his character had to pay taxes on gold (I was a player, not the GM, I was totally stunned and didn't say a word during the whole thing). Another representation is the 27 year old man whom I was stuck listening to for about an hour gloating over how he'd found the perfect arrangement of feats/skills/class/prestige class/etc. to get some crazy totally munchkinized bonus on his character sheet.
The other group is the rest of us.
Unfortunately, where I've recently moved (northern Virginia) seems to be swarming with the first kind of people and the second kind of people are in hiding.
:) My neck of the woods.
One thing I don't get is why more B&M stores don't buy and sell used product, especially if you "buy" it for store credit. Say a book costs $40 retail. You could buy it off of someone for $10 in store credit, this means that in order to not "waste" that, they have to purchase at least $10 of materials. Then you take that book and price it as used for $20 (a 100% profit). Then when some cheapskate comes in and says, "I can get this for $30 online so ... wait, you have a copy for $20! Sold!" The business just made $10 (plus any money over what they first guy bought with is store credit). The cheapskate now has a reason to swing buy on a regular basis and check out the store (maybe there will be another used book), might even pay full price for something they want right then (which is the main benefit of an actual store IMO, instant gradification). That is win-win. I'm sure I'm naively overlooking some details.
*DING DING DING*
Wholeheartedly agree.
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One thing I don't get is why more B&M stores don't buy and sell used product, especially if you "buy" it for store credit. Say a book costs $40 retail. You could buy it off of someone for $10 in store credit, this means that in order to not "waste" that, they have to purchase at least $10 of materials. Then you take that book and price it as used for $20 (a 100% profit). Then when some cheapskate comes in and says, "I can get this for $30 online so ... wait, you have a copy for $20! Sold!" The business just made $10 (plus any money over what they first guy bought with is store credit). The cheapskate now has a reason to swing buy on a regular basis and check out the store (maybe there will be another used book), might even pay full price for something they want right then (which is the main benefit of an actual store IMO, instant gradification). That is win-win. I'm sure I'm naively overlooking some details.
The major issue is that gamers are pack rats by nature, in 7 years, we've had 4 good collections and single book here and there come through the store I work for in this way (+ one collection of early Dragon magazines). 3 of these came when 4E was first announced. and the other two came as people were moving away, so wanted cash instead of credit.
...
I've never seen Pathfinder stuff in a bookshop in Canada, either.
In Montréal the *Valet de Coeur* (jack of hearts) has most of the Pathfinder products in both english and french, they have a nice visible spot in the back right next to D&D stuff.
The store covers a very wide array of RPG even if wargames seem to have taken more space and Miscellaneous-unusual-stuff seems to be the main thing now. Can't say about the sales and I think they don't have PFS games.
One thing I don't get is why more B&M stores don't buy and sell used product, especially if you "buy" it for store credit. Say a book costs $40 retail. You could buy it off of someone for $10 in store credit, this means that in order to not "waste" that, they have to purchase at least $10 of materials. Then you take that book and price it as used for $20 (a 100% profit). Then when some cheapskate comes in and says, "I can get this for $30 online so ... wait, you have a copy for $20! Sold!" The business just made $10 (plus any money over what they first guy bought with is store credit). The cheapskate now has a reason to swing buy on a regular basis and check out the store (maybe there will be another used book), might even pay full price for something they want right then (which is the main benefit of an actual store IMO, instant gradification). That is win-win. I'm sure I'm naively overlooking some details.The major issue is that gamers are pack rats by nature, in 7 years, we've had 4 good collections and single book here and there come through the store I work for in this way (+ one collection of early Dragon magazines). 3 of these came when 4E was first announced. and the other two came as people were moving away, so wanted cash instead of credit.
Which might be a reason why the used stock in a store would be small, but it is not a reason not to offer to purchase and sell it.
This is the best article I've found on Amazon's sales rank algorithm.I knew it! Graphs suspiciously shaped like blood stains...yes! I knew there was voodoo involved!
I wonder why I read that as "vodka involved..."
I wonder why I read that as "vodka involved..."This is the best article I've found on Amazon's sales rank algorithm.I knew it! Graphs suspiciously shaped like blood stains...yes! I knew there was voodoo involved!
The loas always appreciate an offering of liquor.
What I find funny is that the 3.x and Pathfinder guys around here have totally given up on the edition war, but the 4th edition guys don't seem to realize that the war is over.
Uh-huh.
I didn't like what WotC did with 4e
The three LGS I'm familiar with in the region are pretty equal supporting Pathfinder D&D and the WotC game.
Didn't their spin doctors do a huge thing about supporting brick & mortar stores a while ago?
It was really disappointing, really, since now I have to choke down 3 hours of combat and half an hour of RPing if I want to play DND.
If there is a PF or 3.5 game going right now, I can't find it. And I looked really, really hard. I have, however, dicovered other RPGs in lieu (sp?) of DND 4e (which I loathe)
The local players are all fans of 3.5 and hated what they saw of 4E (I don't blame them to be fair)
It comes down to (for me at least) a deep anger at WoTC over many of their recent actions as well as the direction they took with 4E.
Begin Rant:
And, in response to the above post,
+1.
No, +1000
I am semi-anti 4E. The reason being that it is NOT D&D. The game is too big a departure from the game line and is purely a miniatures based combat game
I took all the Pathfinder stuff out, a Bestiary, one AP volume, 3 Companion books, a Module and a few GameMastery maps, and spread them out on the first shelf, making the top shelf a nice Paizo display, hiding all the WotC product.
Again in response,
Vive le resistance!
Okay, I'll be the one to say it.
I do not wish 4e the best. WotC turned their backs on their old fans in order to try to appeal to new fans. If they achieved the best, that'd be saying that that kind of behavior is okay.
I don't have enough grace to wish them the best. Maybe that's a personal failing of mine but, if so, so be it.
If you ever so much as look at a pathfinder or 4E book, one of the workers will come over and start talking about how much better pathfinder is than4E.
The guys at the store always stear people to Pathfinder, they say if you want to play the best Miniature game ever writen try 4.0.
Yeah, the 3.X and Pathfinder guys have totally given up on the edition war. It's those rabid 4e players who just can't stop the trash-talking!
As for my own anecdotal evidence, 4e is doing very well here, from what I've seen. I don't frequent FLGS because the local ones are of poor quality, but from what I know of local gaming groups 4e is getting a ton of play (not to mention DDI subs). I have no idea how PFRPG is doing in my area. My university's gaming club doesn't have any PFRPG games running currently.
Scott, most of the stuff you posted isn't edition warring. Saying you don't like an edition or what WotC has done with the edition or that people at our game store don't like the edition isn't edition warring.
Calling statements of those opinions edition warring sounds like someone trying to pick a fight...
It's only flame stoking if you state that you dislike x. If I like x, then my chastising of your statement of dislike is not flame stoking, but dampening. Now does it make sense? Blaspheme not x!
Duh Scott.
Only negative statements made by 4e fans about other systems can be by definition considered "edition warring". Negative statements made by fans of other systems about 4e is defined to be "opinion" and not "edition warring". Ergo, only 4e fans can maintain the warring.
Come on man, don't you get.
Say you get it man.
Oh come on man, please get it man. [/sarcasm]
In Montréal the *Valet de Coeur* (jack of hearts) has most of the Pathfinder products in both english and french, they have a nice visible spot in the back right next to D&D stuff....
I've never seen Pathfinder stuff in a bookshop in Canada, either.
Oh, I've seen Pathfinder stuff in game stores, just not book stores (like Chapters/Indigo).
<SNIP> I was talking my FLGS owner today and he said that his 4th ed sales are slowing way down, and his pathfinder sales are picking up. He also said that 3.5 sales are growing like crazy. So much that the books people were trading in (To buy 4ed) are now selling over retail as he can't keep them on the shelves. (While my friend was there someone bought the Expanded Psionics handbook for $45.)
Without debating the system, marketing etc, I am just wondering it anyone else has seen this change?<SNIP>
No.
Bookman's in Mesa, AZ usually has the 3.5 core books in stock, and always has a tons of WotC 3.5 supplements. If I could be assured of selling these at even face value, I'd be buying them left and right for resale. I can't, so I'm not. The 4E core books also crop up, but considerably less often. None of this is a comment of the quality of either system; on a result of an obvious truism: People tend to buy the newest stuff. So assuming your FLGS owner doesn't have an agenda (many do; FLGSes are notoriously run by hobbyists, rather than businessmen), his experience is far from universal.
I once saw in a movie that if you said something over and over, squeezed your eyes shut really tight, and then tapped your ruby slippers together three times, then it would become the truth!
Let's try together!
*tap*
"4E is not D&D." *tap*
"4E is not D&D." *tap*
Wow! Ok, I'm off to play "not D&D" tonight.
What I find funny is that the 3.x and Pathfinder guys around here have totally given up on the edition war, but the 4th edition guys don't seem to realize that the war is over.
Confirmation Bias; Look into it.
... Oh, I've seen Pathfinder stuff in game stores, just not book stores (like Chapters/Indigo).
Gotcha, I haven't seen it either in bookstores (Renaud-Bray/Archambault).
Way back when I remember being surprised seeing some 3.0 stuff in the book section of the Archambault Music Store (why?) I haven't look there for a long time.
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What I find funny is that the 3.x and Pathfinder guys around here have totally given up on the edition war, but the 4th edition guys don't seem to realize that the war is over.Confirmation Bias. Look into it.
True. A quick scan the link reminds me of all those people who keep looking for proof that Obama wasn't born in the States, despite Hawaii producing evidence he was and Kenya(I think) saying he was not born in Kenya.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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Seriously, can we drop the accusations on both sides. This was an interesting thread about sales trends and what gaming stores do and don't carry until the Edition Warriors started in.
Seriously, neither version of D&D or Pathfinder need advocates. They need players. Just play whatever you want to play and let anyone who still feels a need to proselytize be. You're not helping anything and no one wins.
I personally would know as the closest mall (Fashion Square Mall, AZ) has gone through a lot of changes and lost all of it's middle class stores (including the 2 Music/DVD stores, the Disney store, an Game Daze among others). Due to this I'm only left with Amazon.com as my supplier of game materials.
Sounds like you are in the Phoenix metro area- the East Valley has 2 great game shops- Game Depot in Tempe (highly recommended)and Gamers Inn in Mesa.
Most of my AZ friends went over to the darkside (4ed) ; ). but i've been in NM for a year so i'd have to check back for traces of disillusionment.
Seriously, can we drop the accusations on both sides. This was an interesting thread about sales trends and what gaming stores do and don't carry until the Edition Warriors started in.
Edition Warrior. Singular.
Thankfully it didn't happen until page 4 of this thread.
Hey Scott,
I really don't appreciate your quoting me above as an example of "fighting the edition war."
Yes, I said "I didn't like what WotC did with 4e" but in the same sentence I said that I hope they do well and it isn't a problem for me.
Yes, some of the people you quoted are still bitter, but I am not one of them. Leading your argument by taking me out of context has really irritated me. I want everyone to play the game they like best and I don't believe that a loss for 4e is a victory for Pathfinder or vice -versa. That was the attitude I was trying to encourage very early in this thread, and your taking me out of context was intended to use those same words to sew argument.
Please take some time to read people's messages before you quote them in support of your own aggression. You've made a very bad personal impression on me just now, and I usually think you're a cool guy.
Seriously, can we drop the accusations on both sides. This was an interesting thread about sales trends and what gaming stores do and don't carry until the Edition Warriors started in.Edition Warrior. Singular.
Thankfully it didn't happen until page 4 of this thread.
Right, page 4. It's not edition warring when people trash a particular edition. It's only edition warring when someone quotes them trashing an edition and makes it clear that's what's going on.
Hey Scott,
I really don't appreciate your quoting me above as an example of "fighting the edition war."
Yes, I said "I didn't like what WotC did with 4e" but in the same sentence I said that I hope they do well and it isn't a problem for me.
Sorry, Evil Lincoln. It wasn't my intent to make anyone appear to be the bad guy or anything like that. I just wanted to make it clear that, at least where this thread is concerned, the vocal dislike for 4e has been far greater than any vocal dislike for 3.X or PFRPG. If I could go back and edit my original post to remove your quotation, I would.
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Sorry, Evil Lincoln. It wasn't my intent to make anyone appear to be the bad guy or anything like that. I just wanted to make it clear that, at least where this thread is concerned, the vocal dislike for 4e has been far greater than any vocal dislike for 3.X or PFRPG.Hey Scott,
I really don't appreciate your quoting me above as an example of "fighting the edition war."
Yes, I said "I didn't like what WotC did with 4e" but in the same sentence I said that I hope they do well and it isn't a problem for me.
You used a quote about someone's town or flgs then used it as a flavor check for the thread...
Scott, most of the stuff you posted isn't edition warring. Saying you don't like an edition or what WotC has done with the edition or that people at our game store don't like the edition isn't edition warring.
Calling statements of those opinions edition warring sounds like someone trying to pick a fight...
I was really hoping that I wouldn't have to explain it.
What counts as edition warring to you, exactly? There are examples of vocal, volunteered dislike of 4e (the topic was which you see doing better; at no point did the OP ask your opinion on either game), examples of angry rants against 4e, examples of obviously derisive language (consistently calling PFRPG "Pathfinder D&D" and 4e "the WotC game"), examples of piling on, examples of people messing with store displays to more prominently display their edition of choice, and examples of store employees trash-talking a particular edition to anyone who even looks at D&D.
I used as many examples as I did so that it would be clear that one particular "side" is far from immune from the lure of edition warring, no matter what your own personal definition of edition warring might be.
You used a quote about someone's town or flgs then used it as a flavor check for the thread...Sorry, Evil Lincoln. It wasn't my intent to make anyone appear to be the bad guy or anything like that. I just wanted to make it clear that, at least where this thread is concerned, the vocal dislike for 4e has been far greater than any vocal dislike for 3.X or PFRPG.Hey Scott,
I really don't appreciate your quoting me above as an example of "fighting the edition war."
Yes, I said "I didn't like what WotC did with 4e" but in the same sentence I said that I hope they do well and it isn't a problem for me.
He claimed that the edition war was over. Not only is it clear that it's not over, it's abundantly clear that this particular board is one of the few places remaining where it rages unabated.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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I used as many examples as I did so that it would be clear that one particular "side" is far from immune from the lure of edition warring, no matter what your own personal definition of edition warring might be.
Could you find another thread to rehash this in? Please?
Could you find another thread to rehash this in? Please?
I used as many examples as I did so that it would be clear that one particular "side" is far from immune from the lure of edition warring, no matter what your own personal definition of edition warring might be.
My point is already made.
Now I have to come out of lurking... This thread was fine, and no one was actively participating in any warring. Then you show up, quote every reference to 4e out of context. This thread had a friendly tone, with little bashing of 4e.... But now you've done it, YOU brought the edition wars. I hope this thread doesn't crash and burn now!
Could you find another thread to rehash this in? Please?
Agreed. Or take if offline to personal emails or something.
Now I have to come out of lurking... This thread was fine, and no one was actively participating in any warring. Then you show up, quote every reference to 4e out of context. This thread had a friendly tone, with little bashing of 4e.... But now you've done it, YOU brought the edition wars. I hope this thread doesn't crash and burn now!
Uh-huh.
Sorry, Evil Lincoln.
The idea that the systems are in competition is the root of the "Edition War" mentality. It's wrong. RPGs have coexisted for a long time. People can choose whatever game they want, and I think the whole hobby is strengthened by it, no matter their preference.
Let's bring it back on topic, although I'm not sure I ever expected it to stay there.
