Dimension Door vs. Globe of Invulnerability


Rules Questions


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One of my player's characters attempted to use dimension door to reposition themselves next to another party member--who happened to be standing in the middle of a globe of invulnerability.

What should have happened exactly? Does the teleportation fail?

Also, what does said globe look like on a grid? Is says it is centered on you, but wouldn't that mean it would no longer align to the grid properly?


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Ravingdork wrote:

One of my player's characters attempted to use dimension door to reposition themselves next to another party member--who happened to be standing in the middle of a globe of invulnerability.

What should have happened exactly? Does the teleportation fail?

I'd say by the rules the dimension door spell fizzles. The target area is not valid. I'd rule however that the spell works but treats the area of effect of the globe as a solid body, shunting the caster to an open space adjacent to it and dealing the normal damage.

Ravingdork wrote:
Also, what does said globe look like on a grid? Is says it is centered on you, but wouldn't that mean it would no longer align to the grid properly?

I'd say it conforms to the 10' radius diagram (scroll down on this page)


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jreyst wrote:
I'd say it conforms to the 10' radius diagram (scroll down on this page)

Except that's not centered on the caster. During grid play, the caster will never be where the red dot in the diagram is (unless he is large*). He would actually be in one of the four adjoining squares.

* This brings up another question, does the globe size to the caster? Would a huge, 15x15 creature have the globe extending outwards from him 10 feet in every direction, or would he literally be sticking out of the globe as he is too big to fit?

Certain dragons of exceptional size actually have this spell. If they don't fit then why take it?


Teleportation does not produce an effect (as in Effect webs in a 20-ft.-radius spread) -- nor does it produce an area (Area 20-ft.-radius spread). Also, teleportation does not pick a target inside the globe (as in Targets up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart). So there's no reason it would block astral travel or prevent a creature from appearing inside of it from a teleportation spell.

On another note, conjuration (summoning) would be surpressed -- it is an effect spell -- Effect one summoned creature.


Ravingdork wrote:
Also, what does said globe look like on a grid? Is says it is centered on you, but wouldn't that mean it would no longer align to the grid properly?

Remember, you don't take up the entire 5 ft. square. . . unless you're a miniature gelatinous cube. It's assumed you move throughout the square during combat -- dodging attacks, spinning around, etc. You'd just pick which corner of your square represents you at that instant and use that one. That's the simplest way to do it.


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meabolex wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Also, what does said globe look like on a grid? Is says it is centered on you, but wouldn't that mean it would no longer align to the grid properly?
Remember, you don't take up the entire 5 ft. square. . . unless you're a miniature gelatinous cube. It's assumed you move throughout the square during combat -- dodging attacks, spinning around, etc. You'd just pick which corner of your square represents you at that instant and use that one. That's the simplest way to do it.

So in gridded play it would never actually be centered? If that's the case why all the confusing wording about it being centered?


Ravingdork wrote:
So in gridded play it would never actually be centered? If that's the case why all the confusing wording about it being centered?

It is centered on you if you're in a corner of your square (:

I think it's probably a relic from a previous edition. In a world of grid squares, it's just more of a headache _not_ to center things around the grid lines. Think about the alternative -- squares would be half-covered by the effect. If someone is in those squares, would they have to roll a 50/50 chance that the spell works or it doesn't? If a character is smart enough to know that they should hang back toward the caster, GoI effectively covers more squares than its supposed to.

It's just so much easier to just pick a corner. As long as you pretend your character is standing in that corner, it makes sense (:


Quote:
This brings up another question, does the globe size to the caster? Would a huge, 15x15 creature have the globe extending outwards from him 10 feet in every direction, or would he literally be sticking out of the globe as he is too big to fit?

Maybe the Widen Spell feat would be useful here? Admittedly that would take up a 9th level spell slot -- but it is possible (:

There's also the squeezing rules. . . but that seems like a bad idea. . .

Ehh, if you're flying and don't mind taking -4 AC and -4 to attack rolls. . . it's not impossible I don't think. . .

Squeezing Rules:
Squeezing: In some cases, you may have to squeeze into or through an area that isn't as wide as the space you take up. You can squeeze through or into a space that is at least half as wide as your normal space. Each move into or through a narrow space counts as if it were 2 squares, and while squeezed in a narrow space, you take a –4 penalty on attack rolls and a –4 penalty to AC.


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Ravingdork wrote:
Except that's not centered on the caster. During grid play, the caster will never be where the red dot in the diagram is (unless he is large*). He would actually be in one of the four adjoining squares.

Good point. You could then instead have it conform to the top table under "Melee Threat Ranges" on that same page.

Ravingdork wrote:

* This brings up another question, does the globe size to the caster? Would a huge, 15x15 creature have the globe extending outwards from him 10 feet in every direction, or would he literally be sticking out of the globe as he is too big to fit?

Certain dragons of exceptional size actually have this spell. If they don't fit then why take it?

By RAW yes, larger creatures are SOL. Only part of their bodies are protected. A reasonable DM would probably translate the spell into affecting an area equal to the creatures space, +10'. I would have liked to have seen some of these things in the core rules but alas, twas not meant to be.


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meabolex wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
So in gridded play it would never actually be centered? If that's the case why all the confusing wording about it being centered?

It is centered on you if you're in a corner of your square (:

I think it's probably a relic from a previous edition.

This.

meabolex wrote:

In a world of grid squares, it's just more of a headache _not_ to center things around the grid lines. Think about the alternative -- squares would be half-covered by the effect. If someone is in those squares, would they have to roll a 50/50 chance that the spell works or it doesn't? If a character is smart enough to know that they should hang back toward the caster, GoI effectively covers more squares than its supposed to.

It's just so much easier to just pick a corner. As long as you pretend your character is standing in that corner, it makes sense (:

Yeah, if you are dealing with a grid, this sort of silliness creeps in. Alternatively, just hope that your GM is a reasonable chap and hope he makes good calls when these things come up. Alternatively (again) bring these things up to him ahead of time (of if you are the GM good on you for being proactive) and see what others think. I say go with having the spell work like the melee threat range area table shows and also have the spell expand 10' from a creatures space, not just a flat 10'


The caster choses which corner of his square to center the effect on. I would suggest that large creatures would do the same. So a dragon might center it on his head ;) Ultimately, globe of invulnerability just isn't very useful if you don't fit into the globe.

The alternative is to house rule it covers the creature plus all squares within 5' of the creature.


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The globe appears to be immobile. I suppose the dragon will just have to use multiple castings to create a larger, slightly overlapping area.


Abraham spalding wrote:
Something

I disagreed

Abraham spalding wrote:
Removed his post while I was disagreeing

:)

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