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I hope some one at Piazo answers this.
A ranger at 6th level, takes the improve percise shot. But the pre req for that is bab of +11. Can he still take it at 6th level or does he have to meet the Pre req. And if he decides to take manyshot instead, can he take Improve percise shot at 7th lvl.What I am asking does the Ranger need to make all the Pre reqs for his combat styles?
nope he doesn't need to
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/basic-classes/ranger#TOC-Combat-Style-Feat- Ex-
I hope some one at Piazo answers this.
A ranger at 6th level, takes the improve percise shot. But the pre req for that is bab of +11. Can he still take it at 6th level or does he have to meet the Pre req. And if he decides to take manyshot instead, can he take Improve percise shot at 7th lvl.What I am asking does the Ranger need to make all the Pre reqs for his combat styles?
This is already in the core rule book:
Combat Style Feat (Ex): At 2nd level, a ranger must select one of two combat styles to pursue: archery or two-weapon combat. The ranger's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.The online reference is here:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/ranger.html#ranger
ok but what if decides to take the feat at 7th level. NOT as part of his combat style but just a feat. Thats the confusing part. Why wouldn't he be allowed to take it at 7th, even if doesnt' meet all the pre reqs.
I can see where you could read it that way, but I think that adds a level of complexity that doesn't need to exist.
ok but what if decides to take the feat at 7th level. NOT as part of his combat style but just a feat. Thats the confusing part. Why wouldn't he be allowed to take it at 7th, even if doesnt' meet all the pre reqs.
You gain the benefits of the Combat Style Feat abilities only at the appropriate levels. Therefore, you can take a combat style feat that you don't meet the prereq's for only at the appropriate combat style feat levels, and not as part of your normal feat acquisition which remains subject to normal prereq's.
Hey Thomas,
I believe another way to think about this would be this:
The combat styles gained at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level are actually Class Abilities {even though they operate exactly the way feats do} and are therefore exempt from the prerequisites {per the Ranger class description}.
And any feats {like the one at 7th level} are actually feats, and have no exemptions.
Hope this helps!
Ezh
P.S. Guess Who?
So Ranger are limited to 5 combat feets.... even thou there are 8 Range combat feats to choose from or 8 melee combat feat to choose from.
I too was wondering if Normal feat could be used; too "" He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites""
Ranger charater would still be using up a Feat.
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He is not really limited. He can take the ones as class abilities without meeting the prerequisites and he can take others as normal feats as he does meet the prereqisites of the feats. It just takes watching which feats you take when. I would always takes ones he can as a normal feat and the ones he is not yet qualified for as class abilities.
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My intent above was an attempt to simplify R. Young's posting, but now that you mention it, the quote is exactly
"At 2nd level, a ranger must select one of two combat styles to pursue: archery or two-weapon combat. The ranger's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites."
Now that I reread this, it makes me wonder if there should not be a phrase along the lines of "These {bonus} feats may be chosen from his selected combat style..."
But as written, it leaves some room for interpretation, does it not? "He can choose feats..." Choose feats for which slots? All of them, or just the bonus feats. The text seems to be referring to the bonus feats, but it doesn't explicitly say that. From a certain point of view, it seems to allow some gray area, no?
I have to join Thomas in the hope that someone with Paizo Authority jumps in on this thread to help us sort this out.
Yeah, I would like to hear the answer to that one too. I first read it as only being able to gain those feats without the prerequisites when attaining the combat style level, but this reads like a standalone sentence:
He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even
if he does not have the normal prerequisites.
Certainly the level restriction is managed by when the feats become available, but I do wonder about the restriction now.
You only get this bonus feat without meeting pre-reqs when selecting it for the combat style. The support for this is actually in the language of the next two paragraphs (emphasis mine):
If the ranger selects archery, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid Shot. At 6th level, he adds Improved Precise Shot and Manyshot to the list. At 10th level, he adds Pinpoint Targeting and Shot on the Run to the list.
If the ranger selects two-weapon combat, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Double Slice, Improved Shield Bash, Quick Draw, and Two-Weapon Fighting. At 6th level, he adds Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Defense to the list. At 10th level, he adds Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Rend to the list.[/prd]
If the ranger selects archery, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid Shot. At 6th level, he adds Improved Precise Shot and Manyshot to the list. At 10th level, he adds Pinpoint Targeting and Shot on the Run to the list.
If the ranger selects two-weapon combat, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Double Slice, Improved Shield Bash, Quick Draw, and Two-Weapon Fighting. At 6th level, he adds Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Defense to the list. At 10th level, he adds Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Rend to the list.[/prd]
Your wrong. The wording only clarifies when the combat style feats become available i.e. at what level and that only the combat style feats listed can be chosen in the combat style bonus feats at ranger level 2, 6, 10...
"He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even
if he does not have the normal prerequisites."This means he can use the feats in the "combat style feat pool" that the ranger has access too as normal character feat choices EVEN IF he does not meat prerequisites.
It sounds powerful, because it is. If what you were saying is correct then the wording would read:
"He can choose bonus feats from his selected combat style, even
if he does not have the normal prerequisites."But it doesn't. So rangers enjoy.
The key line is "he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat.
It doesn't say 'he can choose from the following list any time he gains a new feat'. He can choose from this combat style lists only when he gains a combat style feat.
If a ranger wants to take improved precise shot, he can as a 6th or 10th level combat style, or as his 11th+ level regular feat.
-Swiftbrook
Just My Thoughts
Does not say or imply that:
"he can only choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat
So are you saying that a ranger can choose any feat he qualifies for as well as the feats on the list (that he may not qualify for) at 4th, 10th and 16th levels?
-Swiftbrook
Nope I got excited. Should read:
Does not say or imply that:
"he can choose from the following list only when he gains a combat style feat*"
*for combat style feats that he does not meet prereqs.
I should have just copied what you wrote.
So at 11th level, as a ranger, I can choose greater two weapon fighting even though I only have a 13 dex using my 11th level feat since I've selected TWF as my combat style?
If correct, that's very nice. It doesn't maybe have as much of an impact on other styles, but is fantastic for twf rangers since you can focus entirely on strength.
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This means he can use the feats in the "combat style feat pool" that the ranger has access too as normal character feat choices EVEN IF he does not meat prerequisites.
It sounds powerful, because it is.
I know of no Pathfinder players that interpret ranger combat feats this way, which includes Pathfinder Society groups I have played with. The feats you take as a bonus combat style feat don't have pre-requisites. However, your odd level regular feats still have restrictions, even if they come from this list. What are you basing this interpretation on?
The feats you take as a bonus combat style feat don't have pre-requisites. However, your odd level regular feats still have restrictions, even if they come from this list. What are you basing this interpretation on?
What Redcelt said! When the ranger gets a "Combat Style Feat" for free as a result of gaining a ranger level (ranger levels 2, 6, 10,14, and 18), he can select a feat from the ranger combat style feats without having to meet the prerequisites.
Anytime he takes a feat as a result of gaining a class level (as all characters do at odd levels), he must meet the prerequisites, even if the same feat is listed in his ranger's combat style feats.
There is nothing broken about this -- it's balanced. The ranger just needs to plan in advance what feats he's going to take from gaining levels and which ones he will take as part of his ranger combat style feat bonuses.
At 2nd level, a ranger must select one of two combat styles to pursue: archery or two-weapon combat. The ranger's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.By the exact wording: [a ranger] can chose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.
This does not say: [a ranger] can chose feats from his selected combat style when he is awarded bonus feats, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.
This is purely 'letter of the law' Lawful Evil interpretation. The spirit of the rules is up for interpretation and should be decided on by each individual GM (I personally would allow it, I think if a player can come up with a clever loophole that I can't exploit for my own purposes then they should reap the benefits).
Except it lists when you can take those feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th.
You are free to house rule that away though.
By the exact wording: [a ranger] can chose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.
This does not say: [a ranger] can chose feats from his selected combat style when he is awarded bonus feats, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.
I've got a different reading on that when you look a the full context.
Combat Style Feat (Ex): At 2nd level, a ranger must select one of two combat styles to pursue: archery or two-weapon combat. The ranger's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.
This text is describing the Combat Style Feat extraordinary class ability. When applying this extraordinary ability to gain a feat, the ranger is not restricted by prereqs for the given style feats.
I do not read it to allow rangers to disregard prereqs when they gain feats through other means.
I believe that is what the wording means as it is written. Yes and that is the cool part, focusing on stre rather than "off" stats. Its what gives a ranger his edge in comparison with a fighter who uses two weapons. We dont get the bonus weapon focuses and specializations, but we dont have to waste stat points in dex. And not building it up to 19 for greater two weapon fighting is huge or even 15 for the starting two weapon feats. People keep claiming rangers are underpowered, but I think it is far from it. I think it is a more difficult class to play, but I also think that out of all the classes it is by far the most self-sufficient / surviving when alone.
I absolutely love the spell choices:
Alarm = not getting your throat slit when you sleep
longstride = in medium armor as a dwarf is cool
Barkskin = rocks
tree stride = personal teleport
entangle = awesomeOn top of that stealth, perception, survival (tracking), and not being tracked with pass without trace.
As a ranger you should easily be able to scout ahead of your party, track enemies without being seen or detected and facilitate your party in setting up ambushes and whatnot. Choosing your battles and whittling off stragglers. Hell it would be cool to setup traps and ambushes in advance of enemies and using your ability to move through difficult terrain at normal speed + longstride,
Its a cool class, you just have to use your head.
Sounds like a ninja :P