UndeadViking's page

Does collateral damage really affect the power level of a spell? If you can cause buildings to come down and blow through stone doors, sure - but I really don't see how furniture destruction plays a major role in the power level of fireball.

Furniture destruction itself is certainly not a big deal on its own, no, but burning furniture now causing additional fire damage plus smoke inhalation effects plus obscuring vision suddenly makes fireball and other fire spells a lot more potent.

The point of the post was that these things can have a big effect if allowed, and will then become a major part of the game that gets used over and over. There is definitely an impact there. Just imagine city adventures and the difference between encounters in games where fireball is ruled to ignite things with major side effects as a result vs. where it's ruled not to so easily ignite things.

The text on Archives of Nethys doesn't do a great job of copying the paragraph breaks in the actual book, so it reads a bit messily. But the main points are:

Table 10-9 tells you what kind of stuff to give to the party over the course of a level, to be shared. You can see that for a party of level X, they should expect to pick up about two level X+1 items before actually reaching level X+1.

So for example a level 1 party might pick up a suit of full plate armor (level 2 item) and a +1 potency sword (also a level 2 item) over the course of a series of encounters that then bring them up to level 2. Then, during level 2, they pick up some more level 2 items and a couple of level 3 items.

Likewise, a level 3 party might expect to find two +1 Striking weapons, which are level 4 items. And then during character level 4, they should pick up two more level 4 items and two level 5 items.

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So to answer your question: a +1 Striking weapon is quite above normal rewards for a level 1 character. Any item even a bit above your level is going to feel strong, so you don't need to just jump three levels ahead.

A +1 Potency (but not Striking) weapon is a suitable treasure for a level 1 or 2 character.

A +1 Striking weapon is a suitable treasure for a level 3 to 4 character.

Awesome answer, supported by the official rules. Thank you Ascalaphus!

Sauce987654321 wrote:

It's not with only objects, but also how players and monsters are described and what they are doing. Like sliding down a stair case with a fallen enemy's shield, a hill giant tearing down a column in a room and tossing it at your players, a red dragon causing a forest fire with a single breath weapon, or even a giant monster knocking down buildings by walking through them. It's refreshing to have a GM that's comfortable with these levels of description by not limiting themselves by getting too neck deep into the rules and determining if it's mechanically sound or not. It tends to make the game not only more fun for yourself, but it makes it more fun for your players.

This is not about what the GM can do or not do, because he can usually do anything, but what players can do while staying within the given framework of rules. Which does not mean that you need to shut down your imagination and only play by the book, but GM decisions should only be required when you try something out of the ordinary like sliding down a stair case with a fallen enemy's shield, not when you aim a fireball against a wooden door.

Good points. These scenarios benefit from clear rules guidelines to help GMs adjudicate and be fair, and for players to play fair and within the framework as well, and to prevent abuse of rules.

For example, many times I've had some players insist that if they fireball a room with furniture and carpets, tapestries, etc. that everything should either be instantly destroyed or caught on fire. Then they insist that in addition to the fireball damage, anything living in the room should now also suffer additional fire damage from the flaming furniture plus breathing and vision problems from smoke, etc.

Now these are perfectly valid, common sense things to assume would happen in the real world, but when brought into the game they suddenly make certain spells (and even alchemist fire) suddenly far more damaging and debilitating than the RAW intended. So we often simply ruled that the fireball did not ignite things, for game balance. But if your group wanted to rule otherwise and play that fireball did ignite things which causes more damage plus smoke, then that's fine BUT now you have to evaluate whether or not the spells are overpowered compared to others. Should fireball then be bumped up to a higher level spell? What about burning hands, should it be bumped up a level, too?

Just curious, I'm still learning the character wealth by level rules and trying to figure things out. I'd appreciate any advice or clarifications.

Is a +1 weapon with a Potency rune and a Striking rune appropriate treasure for a 1st level character, based on the rule guidelines for wealth by level, or is it too powerful?
Reference: I'm looking at Table 10-10:Character Wealth and Table 10-9:Party
Treasure by Level here: https://pf2.d20pfsrd.com/rules/game-mastering/#Treasure_By_Level

The Potency rune gives the weapon a +1 to hit.
The potency rune itself is listed under the Runes rules as (Rune 2+).
A "+1 weapon potency" item is listed as a 2nd Level Permanent Item under Table 11–1: Treasure By Level .
Does this mean that a +1 longsword WITHOUT a striking rune should only be given to a level 2 or higher character?

The Striking rune gives the weapon an extra die of damage.
The striking rune itself is listed under the Runes rules as (Rune 4+).
A "+1 Striking weapon" item is listed as a 4th Level Permanent Item under Table 11–1: Treasure By Level .
Does this mean that a +1 longsword WITH a striking rune should only be given to a level 4 or higher character?

Thanks again for any advice or clarification.

Quote:

As written, I feel it implies that the Ranger needs to do a roll every round again to try and recall again what goblins are weak to which doesn't make much sense to me. The only other way I could think to interpret it is to have that bonus previous Recall Knowledge roll carry over to the new Hunt Prey targets if they are the same type of creature, but I feel like that interpretation might make it too strong. How do you all think this should be interpreted?

I think it's important to separate the two mechanics at work:

1. Recall Knowledge. This allows you to identify what type of creature you are facing and the characteristics of its type:

Recall Knowledge wrote:

To remember useful information on a topic, you can attempt to Recall Knowledge.

2. Monster Hunter. This conveys a bonus against a particular creature for a Crit success on RK.

Monster Hunter wrote:

When you critically succeed at identifying your hunted prey with Recall Knowledge, you note a weakness in the creature’s defenses.

As WatersLethe suggests, Monster Hunter allows you to get "weakness" information about your Prey. Not about the creature type in general.

To answer your question, every time you designate a creature with Hunt Prey, you can roll a RK check to see if you see something about THAT creature that you can exploit. As it states:

Monster Hunter wrote:

You swiftly assess your prey and apply what you know.

So Monster Hunter is simply allowing you to get a secondary use from RK.

But there are some situations which Paizo needs to FAQ

1. What happens if you succeed on one goblin and fail on the other? With regards to Monster Hunter, you don't get any carryover benefit. You need a Crit Success against every creature to see that "weakness."

With regards to Recall Knowledge, it's not spelled out (and it wasn't spelled out in PF1 either). Let's ignore Monster Hunter and ask what happens when you encounter a mixed party of goblins and orcs? Does...

Great posts in this thread. Very helpful. I agree I'd like to ask Paizo to post some FAQs for this one to help clarify. Often, PF 2E rules are simply written too vaguely. I like the ideas behind the new PF 2E ranger but some things seem too weak or of little use and need improvement. I loved the PF 1E ranger, though I understand PF 2E is a "rethink" not only of rules but of overall class concepts, and it really is a totally different game now. I still prefer PF 1E, but 2E is also fun.

I certainly intend to let the bonuses persist, but that's based mostly on a belief that the feats are underpowered and need the boost. Well, Monster Warden is underpowered at least.

Monster Hunter definitely seems underpowered, especially at low levels where you are probably better off choosing a different feat.

I agree with a previous post that the Recall Knowledge check for Monster Hunter should require a normal success vs. a critical success, or at least give the ranger a +2 bonus or something on this check because the chances of getting a critical success are too small to make the feat worth taking.

I play a level 1 ranger archer with the Monster Hunter feat, Trained in Nature with a 14 Wisdom, so he has a +5 bonus, and it was disappointing. The GM set the Recall Knowledge Nature DC at 13 vs. 4 troll opponents and this meant rolling an 18-20 on the dice to _critically succeed_(a 15% chance), which never happened.

Alchemical Wonder wrote:

, but my interpretation indicates there’s a mechanic incentive to finish your hunts before starting a new one.

While I can agree that the way Monster Hunter is written a GM might disallow the bonus upon choosing a new pray, I'm not seeing the implied incentive to finish a prey any quicker than one would without Monster Hunter. Can you elaborate?

Quote:

Seems like a DM call.

Currently yes, but this is not something that should be subject to table variation, so I hope Paizo answers. I really don't want to spend time discussing this at the table.

Cancelling the bonus on changing prey really feels like a bad mechanic for game play. It creates all kinds of frustration for the Ranger arising from other player's not optimizing the Ranger's Prey. I really hope Paizo clears this up in favorable way. Or at least clears it up, so I can know not to take this feat if it doesn't persist.

Good points. Pathfinder 2E seems to have quite a few rules that are designed purely for mechanics and game balance but the "flavor" or rationale/explanation for them are vague or don't mesh well with the mechanics.

Inevitably, situations arise in actual game play where resolving each unique scenario requires interpreting rules, and if they are too vaguely written, it's not helpful.

Unlike video game MMOs where the mechanics simply are what they are and the types of scenarios are always going to be pretty much the same, in person RPGs allow for more realistic situations which require reasoning out what is happening, and therefore the rules need to be as clear as possible to facilitate this.

My apologies: I just noticed the previous posts were for the playtest rules. A few things have changed since then.However, there are still a few things in the final current rules that need tweaking here, so my response below still applies to them.

I agree with several of your points, though there are a few mistakes I spotted and clarified (please see my "Correction:" entry below).

Even with the corrections, though, this feat does not seem worth taking, especially at lower levels when it's hard to get the required critical success on the Recall Knowledge check.

I agree that the Recall Knowledge check should require a normal success vs. a critical success, or at least give the ranger a +2 bonus or something on this check because the chances of getting a critical success on this are too small to make the feat worth taking.

I play a level 1 ranger archer with the Monster Hunter feat, Trained in Nature with a 14 Wisdom, so he has a +5 bonus, and it was disappointing. The GM set the Recall Knowledge Nature DC at 13 vs. 4 troll opponents and this meant rolling an 18-20 on the dice to _critically succeed_(a 15% chance), which never happened.

It costs potentially TWO actions to use Monster Hunter because it requires a Recall K. check and the Target has to have already had Hunt Target applied.

Correction: It only costs one action, per the rules: "_As part of the action used to Hunt your Prey_, you can attempt a check to Recall Knowledge about your prey." So it's one action to use Hunt Prey to designate your prey target and also to make the Recall Knowledge check at the same time to try to get the critical success for a +1 bonus to hit. Normally, the Recall Knowledge skill check requires its own action, but when used with the Monster Hunter feat it doesn't.

Sources:
Hunt Prey d20pfsrd
Hunt Prey Archives of Nethys
Monster Hunter feat

UndeadViking wrote:

If you roll high, you go first even though you are unaware the creature is there.

That's my understanding based on previous posts.

This is where I'm confused

If you rolled high enough on Perception to go first, you noticed something was off. That doesn't give you the location of the hidden ambushers, but gives the character an opportunity to use the Seek action.

What exactly they perceive is up to the GM. But, it could be a falling pebble, a cracked twig, or even just Spidey-sense.

Hi Rex, I get part of what you're saying, but if the monster's Stealth roll beat your Perception DC, you don't know it's there: you perceived nothing. So I'm confused why you then roll Perception as initiative, and if you roll high then somehow you do perceive something after all even though you weren't supposed to have perceived anything in the first place (as determined by the monster's Stealth check vs. your Perception DC). Initiative should be about who reacts first, but to react to something you must first be aware of it. If you're unaware, then there's nothing for you to react to.

Perception as initiative in this scenario seems to be basically a 2nd chance to perceive something even after it was determined you didn't perceive anything. IMO, if you perceived nothing, then the creature should get to go first.

Initiative is the stealth vs perception check. The ambushers roll stealth for initiative and I roll perception.

If I get a 12 on my check and they get a 10 on theirs, my perception beats their stealth and my initiative beats their initiative. So I go first, but since my perception check is higher than their stealth check, I also spot them.

Having the active perception check of rolling initiative replace the passive DC when rolling initiative seems to completely resolve most of the problems in this thread.

My understanding is that the hidden creature rolls a Stealth check and attempts to beat the DC of your Perception skill (DC 10 + your Perception skill modifier). You don't roll against the creature's roll at this point.

From the 2e SRD at https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=171:

"When someone or something tests your skill, they attempt a check against your skill DC, which is equal to 10 plus your skill modifier. A skill DC works like any other DC to determine the effect of an opposing creature’s skill action."

So the monster rolls vs. your Perception DC to determine if you see them. So if the monster's Stealth check beats your DC, then you don't see it. It also happens that the monster's Stealth check is used as their initiative roll.

Now determine who goes first. If its Stealth beat your Perception DC, then you don't know it's there. So now you roll your initiative by rolling d20 + your Perception skill bonus. If you roll high, you go first even though you are unaware the creature is there.

That's my understanding based on previous posts.

This is where I'm confused.

I still find the rules for this very confusing. I appreciate everyone's very good posts and explanations, but a few things still bother me about how 2e handles this.

In my opinion, if you fail to notice a hidden monster by failing perception vs. stealth, you have no idea the monster is there at all. Hence, you do not have a 6th sense/spider sense that danger is present. You are completely unaware.

But from what I've been reading in this thread, the 2e rules in this scenario use Perception as initiative. So it's possible to fail to notice the hidden creature but yet still win initiative and get to go before the hidden ambushers. This does not make sense to me.

I know the new rules intend to streamline things mechanically, and maybe I'm just used to previous systems where a surprise round was used (I've been gaming for 40 years and am familiar with ALL the D&D editions and Pathfinder 1e + many other RPGs, both as a GM and a player. I've also been published in Dungeon magazine three times). But the older system rules just made more sense. If you don't perceive a hidden foe, then they're going to get the drop on you and act first. Running a surprise round wasn't hard.

That being said, I'm not "hating" on 2e. I have a completely open mind to it, and am willing to give it a fair shake. There are a number of 2e things I like. This one, though, I just find very confusing.

Maybe as I read more, and play more 2e, this will mentally click better. We'll have to see.

Franz Lunzer wrote:

Take a look at the Falling rules.

These Look fun. One Flying Character Vs Army. Flyer has a bag of holding full of bags of caltrops. Flies 1500 ft above army, and starts dumping the bags of caltrops out on top of the troops below. Safely out of bow/spell range hundreds of spiked objects fall to the ground making troops have to perform dozens of reflex saves to avoid 187 dmg on a success, 375 dmg on a fail, and 750 dmg on a crit fail. on the off chance that someone should actually survive, they are now also surrounded by a field of caltrops to cross!

This rule is in need of tweaking, Paizo! ;)

Magic Skull Games created an earlier version of this type of class called the Shapeshifter in the Grimoire Viperian.

MSG's shapeshifter can assume any animal form similar to wildshape, plus alter self, the ability to assume certain magical beast forms and at higher levels giant form and dragon form.

It also has favored forms (which can be changed at certain levels), special form powers which you can pick and choose, and monstrous aspect abilities.

A variety of special shapeshifter only feats are also available to further customize your character. Rules are also included to allow shapeshifters to take certain druid and ranger-related feats that fit the shapeshifter's bestial theme. BAB and hit points are the same as a druid.

That being said, I really like the Paizo shifter concept, as well. The full BAB and d10 hit points are nice, and the mechanics are different, exploring the idea from a slightly different approach. The natural claws thing definitely seems Wolverine-ish, which I like. ;) I really like how Paizo provides so many different options for character creation.

Ultimate Wilderness is definitely worth picking up a copy, IMO, for all the extra options and good content for both players and GMs.

Watch the Mummy movies for ideas, and of course Raiders of the Lost Ark, and the old Egyptian movies like The Ten Commandments with Charleton Heston and Yul Brynner. There was also a pretty good animated movie called The Prince of Egypt.

When I ran an old Egyptian themed adventure of my own creation, I played the music soundtrack from The Mummy movies in the background. That, along with visual aids and good descriptions really helped set the mood.

There is so much about this type of setting that is memorable.

Stress the environment, culture and architecture. Religion is hugely important, priests wield great power along with the pharoah. The culture was obsessed with death and the afterlife yet they lived rich lives and creates stunning, advanced civilizations for their time. Nobles would make elaborate plans and spend fortunes on constructing their tombs and amassing wealth to take with them in the afterlife. They would probably go to great lengths to keep the location of their tombs secret, and install traps, monsters or constructs in them to keep tomb robbers away. There was also, unfortunately, a lot of cruelty given that slavery existed and the common people were under the heels of the rulers. So you could use the plight of the slaves to create memorable events, illustrating how terrible life was as a slave and how many would be desperate to find a way to escape cruel masters, and how escaped slaves were probably hunted down mercilessly to discourage other slaves from running away. Perhaps there is a secret movement to abolish slavery, to assist slaves that are on the run, and to overthrow rulers who allow slavery.

Use visual aids when the PCs encounter an exotic Egyptian temple, tomb or city. Be descriptive when you talk about them. Still, even a great description doesn't really do justice to the magnificence of some of these places, so a good visual is priceless.

Stress the heat and the trials/tribulations to be found in the desert, plus don't forget all the unique monsters and bedouin culture. I don't believe platemail and similar heavy armor was not known in the real world during Egyptian times, if you had to wear it in the desert I can only imagine it would have been a heat stroke waiting to happen. An oasis in the desert would be a precious thing that the locals probably strive to control, and would be outraged by anyone who damaged or polluted them.

The people should speak exotic languages and wear exotic Eqyptian clothing and have their own unusual customs that may seem strange to Westerners. They may have been easily offended so outsiders would have to take care to learn how to behave.

Trade was also extremely important to Egypt, and their wealth was legendary, so there should be a bustling trade in the setting with lots of intrigue, politics and scheming going on. You probably also would have smugglers and tomb-raiders all over the place, doing their best to get rich quick while avoiding the heavy hand of the law and priesthood.

I'm sure there's much more that could be done to make things memorable.

So, has anyone played any of the Osirion adventures?

A friend is putting together an Osirion campaign, and I'm itching to know what others think of the setting so far. Egyptian themes have always been a personal favorite.

You should check out this link.

Thanks, Uriel!

Now if only they had more descriptive info. I'll check them out and add them to the list, with more tags.

All, I'd like to enlist the aid of the forum community to create an extensive list of great individual Paizo adventures that GMs can drop into in their campaigns, categorized or "tagged" by Type, Level, Environment and any special notes.

This list would be a huge reference aid for GMs putting together a campaign, or looking for a one-shot.

Say you need an underwater or forest or city or dungeon-crawl or castle adventure, or maybe a rescue mission - just search the list (using your browser's Search feature - CTRL F) for the appropriate tags. Once you find what you're looking for but it's not the appropriate level, you can just scale the difficulty level up or down.

If anyone knows of an already existing list of this type, please post the URL here for everyone.

Contributing to the list:
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Post the module using the format below. I'll periodically consolidate new posts into the main post and alphabetize the list.

Include tags that describe the basic environments and notable features of the module, that would help GMs looking for a specific type of adventure.

In the Crypt of the Everflame example below, "L1" indicates the adventure is designed for Level 1 characters. The tags describe the main type of environments the PCs are faced with (town, then forest as they travel to a dungeon that is a crypt), and the primary type of creatures and challenges faced (traps, undead).

----------------------------------------------
Adventures:
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L1 Crypt of the Everflame
Tags: town, forest, crypt/dungeon, traps, undead

L3 Masks of the Living God
Tags: town, river, lake, city, temple, Razmir, dungeon, investigation, infiltration, escape, cultists

Gandalf is best reflected as a paladin (possibly multi-class) outsider IMHO. Sounds funny I know but check out what Gandalf could do.

Devoted to the cause of good (works for a paladin)

Has divine powers (paladin)

Wields a longsword (paladin martial weapon prof and full BAB)

Bonded, special horse mount which he could summon (paladin bonded mount)

Inspiring presence - gandalf bolstered and guided those around him with his presence, wisdom and leadership (paladin auras)

Was particularly good at battling evil outsiders like the Balrog (Smite Evil. Plus this famous line which I couldn't resist including "Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside ..." Yes, Yes, I know a quote doesn't mean it's an ability he has, I just thought it was a cool thematic thing to toss in there)

Spells - Gandalf didn't cast many, and what he did were usually very subtle. Cleric and paladin spells reflect some of what he did:

Light (Mines of Moria)
Searing Light (used it to drive off nazgul at battle of Minas Tirith)
Dispel Evil or maybe Dispel Magic or Protection from Evil (driving Saruman's possessing spirit out of King Theodin)

Of course there are some spells he cast that paladins don't have:

Produce Flame (in The Hobbit when worgs and goblins have the heroes cornered up a tree)
Others?

So he would probably be built as a paladin with levels of other classes.

And I agree with others that there's no way you can truly reflect Gandalf in any game other than Middle Earth, but it's a blast to try.

Pretty cool!

My simple St. Cuthbert conversion:

St. Cuthbert, LN

Portfolios: wisdom, truth, honesty, discipline, retribution and zeal

Domains: Destruction, Law, Protection, and Strength

Favored Weapons: mace, morningstar, or greatclub. I like to give my player's clerics more options so I typically specify more than one possibility as a favored weapon.

Aberrant Sorcerers are another good source for shapeshifting--they just do it via polymorphs.

I've always liked the aberrant sorcerer concept and beast shape/polymorph spells, but unless a sorcerer or wizard has a high strength he's still not effective in combat, even with the spell's bonuses. Couple that with the sor/wiz's low AC, Con and BAB and the spells just don't make them very combat viable. The spells are good for mobility/flying and disguises, though. I suppose you can throw on some buff spells prior to changing, like Bull's Strength and Bear's Endurance, if you have the time.

Has anyone played a shapechanging focused sorcerer or wizard? I'd love to know more about how it went and any tips/tricks.

That's why I like druids and the Grimoire Viperian Shapeshifter base class. Better hit points and BAB make assuming animal form (and magical beast form plus others for the Shapeshifter base class) more viable in combat.

As someone mentioned, there are good druid guides out there that have this information, but no program I know of that auto-calculates it and applies the changes to your character.

The excel spreadsheet is a great idea if it could list the Str/Dex/Con changes for each form, though they will vary according to the size of the creature and the version of Beast Shape that's used (based on the druid's level).

A new free Web Enhancement PDF for the Grimoire Viperian Shapeshifter base class is coming out that will contain basic lists of recommended animal and magical beast forms and why they are recommended (speed, number of attacks, special abilities gained, etc.).

Though the list is intended for the Shapeshifter class, it's a good guide for druid players using wild shape, as well. If you really like wild shaping as a druid, you'll probably like the Shapeshifter class.

Check out the new Shapeshifter base class in the "Grimoire Viperian" by Magic Skull Games.

The class is not just limited to animals but also lets you use alter self and change into mythical beasts of legend like the hellhound, winter wolf, centaur, nightmare, unicorn, sphinx and eventually giants and dragons. You not only get some of the their standard abilities as you would from a beast shape spell, but you also get some of their special or spell-like abilities that normally aren't available with beast shape or polymorph spells.

This Shapeshifter is also customizable, letting you choose favored forms and special form abilities so no two shapeshifters are exactly alike.

You can download a partial free sample preview at the Paizo store or at DriveThruRPG. Both sites offer the full PDF with all the Shapeshifter rules, plus the Pyro class, prestige classes, new spells, eldritch path feats, supernatural signs, and monster templates for a very reasonable price.

Awesome idea. I'd also have the humanoids sending out sorties each day to attack and sack nearby villages. You could run encounters where the party must rush in to save a village in mid-sack, or the party gets there ahead of time and helps the villagers fortify with makeshift defenses such as overturned wagons, brush pile barriers lit on fire, concealed pits dug into the wheat fields, etc.

Also, I'd have the humanoids react to the party's assault on their lair by sending out patrols and adding more fortifications, themselves. They might also send out word to other tribes calling for reinforcements. The party must track and stop their messenger(s) before he/they reach the other tribes. If they don't stop the messenger, they find themselves between a rock and a hard place in the ravine once reinforcements arrive. The reinforcements could even be bringing their sacred war machine - an unholy mobile altar with hideous evil powers or something along those lines.

Fun stuff!

I like it! Nice conversion.

Correction: 33 prestige classes, not a mere 22!

Here's a full list:

• Black Lord - warrior/arcane caster of necromancy/darkness

• Serpent Warlock - snake form assuming arcane caster

• Bear/Eagle/Horse/Panther/Snake/Wolf Clan Warchiefs - barbarian warriors with unique and potent animal totem powers

• Earth Lord - warrior/arcane caster steeped in the secrets of elemental earth

• Fire Lord - warrior/arcane caster steeped in the secrets of elemental fire

• Storm Knight - warrior/arcane caster steeped in the secrets of elemental air and lightning

• Champion of Light - a holy warrior empowered with light and a deadly foe of darkness

• Knight Heretic - an evil knight trained in the dark arts

• Knight Inexorable - the quintessential questing knight with an iron will and a thirst for glory

• Knight of the Black Glade - a knight of the forest trained in druidic ways and with unique powers of his own

• Knight of Entropy - a knight enslaved to the chaotic powers of entropy, with a corrupting presence

• Knight of the Death Angel - a warrior/arcane caster type charged with hunting down and slaying or capturing dangerous targets

• Knight of the Lion Rampant - a noble paladin belonging to the order of the Lion Rampant, more focused on the art of war

• Cobra Master - a deadly monk whose fighting style emulates cobras and who has attained mystical cobra-like abilities

• Python Master - a deadly monk whose fighting style emulates pythons and who can assume python form

• Silent Adder - a deadly monk/rogue (or ninja/assassin) whose fighting style emulates adders and who is skilled with poison

• Dread Crusher - a master of wielding great crushing weapons, and even dual-wielding them

• Master of the Flamberge (Greatsword) - a master of the greatsword

• Master of the Hand Axe - a master of the hand and throwing axes

• Master of the Razor Scourge - a master of a deadly steel studded whip known as the razor scourge

• Faceted Conjuror - an arcane caster who has unlocked hypnotic magical mysteries and forces and may conjure ioun stones and figurines of wondrous power

• Serpent Druid - a druid with a great affinity for serpents, with enhanced serpent wild shape abilities, more powerful snake companions, and other snake-like abilities no other druid can attain

• Serpent Temple Warrior - a warrior dedicated to and blessed by the temple of a serpent god, who receives special training and unique equipment

• Serpentine Necromancer - a dread arcane caster who combines his focused knowledge of necromancy and serpentkind in powerful and fearsome ways

• Snake Cult Leader - a clerical leader of the serpent cult, whose dedication grants her the ability to transform her body in serpentine ways and who has knowledge of secret serpentine ways and magic

• Temple Assassin - a cleric/rogue who leads a secret life as a spy and assassin for his temple, doing what must be done to stop enemies of the faith

• Viper Assassin - an assassin trained to strike like a serpent and who relies on poison and a venomous companion to do his work

• Winter Warlock - an arcane caster with the icy power of cold and a winter wolf familiar

A lot of people seem to despise it but I'm actually a fan of the Eldritch Knight. As such, a fighter/wizard/ek or fighter/sorc/ek is fun.

Outside of that I'm also a fan of the traditional Fighter/Rogue combo.

Also a fan of the "gish" type characters. I played an Eldritch Knight in 3.5 and loved it - I'm sure it's even better in Pathfinder.

The Dragon Disciple looks like fun, as does the Magus, though the Magus is essentially a gish rolled into one class. I haven't heard any feedback on anyone trying multi-classed magus yet, but it seems like a level or fighter or rogue thrown into the mix would be cool.

Ranger/rogue, barbarian/rogue can be pretty cool

cleric/fighter/holy vindicator is sweet

There's new gish type prestige classes in the Grimoire Viperian, as well:

• Black Lord: wiz/fighter or sor/fighter, focuses on darkness and necromancy spells and has other unique class abilities related to these themes

• Knight of the Death Angel: sor/fighter, bounty hunter type with special armor-related abilities and

• Knight of the Black Glade: druid/fighter or druid/ranger, "green knight" of legend inspired class with horse animal companion, metal armor acclimation, forest-related special abilities

• Earth Lord: wiz/fighter or sor/fighter, focuses on earth spells and has special earth magic powers

• Fire Lord: the fire equivalent of the Earth Lord

• Storm Knight: wiz/fighter or sor/fighter, focuses on air and lightning spells and has special air/lightning powers and access to new air spells

• Temple Assassin: cleric/rogue type (not technically a gish but close) assassin type sent on missions on behalf of the temple

Yar!

Alrighty, I took some pics. They're not the best quality, but their better than the "epic" pic Seraph took. lol. Gotta love the iPhone.

Anyways, here they are. Because of the uncanny resemblance to published paizo maps, and some of Wayne Reynolds art, I'm not sure if I'm actually allowed to post these. If it's a problem, they shall be removed... but for now, for your viewing pleasure...

LINKY

and if for some reason that link doesn't work: http://vryxnr.tripod.com/id12.html

(my apologies for any pop-ups you may experience)

Amazing....just amazing. Some of the best terrain I've ever seen!

BTW, there's a 37-page free sample version of the Grimoire Viperian available, as well, to give folks a better idea of the kind of content within.

Look for the "Add Sample PDF: FREE" under the full PDF price.

Note that there's a free preview PDF too :)

Yep! The 37-page free sample version of the Grimoire Viperian provides a big peek at the contents.

Look for the "Add Sample PDF: FREE" under the full PDF price.

You guys are confusing me with all this talk of druids and rangers in this polymorph thread.....

The OP has stated that he wants to be a melee polymorph character....

The Grimoire Viperian Shapeshifter base class is definitely the way to go.

The class is near full BAB, with alter self and wild-shape like abilities and Form of the Mythical Beast to change into several different types of monsters, plus dragons and giants, plus the ability to use some of the monster's special abilities that no spell would grant, like a hell hound's breath weapon, centaur Run feat, or a lamia or sphinx's spell-like abilities, to name a few.

On top of that, add favored form abilities like favored terrain and other bonuses, and a long list of special form powers the shapeshifter can choose from, like knockback, intimidating glare, terrifying howl, and many more.

With this class there's no need to spend levels on wizard or druid, and no need to have a high Int, Wis or Cha score, letting you put your points into important combat stats like Str, Dex and Con. =)

There's also the new Pyro base class, a cool roguish/alchmist maniac type. >>>> Thread.

Seconding a shapeshifting class. Would prefer if it didn't have spells either.

There's a very cool new shapechanging base class called the Shapeshifter in the "Grimoire Viperian" Pathfinder compatible PDF book by Magic Skull Games.

It's not full BAB but close to it. The class is not just limited to animals but also lets you use alter self and change into mythical beasts of legend like the hellhound, winter wolf, centaur, nightmare, unicorn, sphinx and eventually giants and dragons.

You not only get some of the their standard abilities as you would from a beast shape spell, but you also get some of their special or spell-like abilities that normally aren't available with beast shape or polymorph spells. For example, when assuming hell hound form, you get its fire breathing ability. When assuming lamia form, you get some of its spell-like or supernatural magical abilities.

This Shapeshifter class is also highly customizable, letting you choose favored forms and special form abilities so no two shapeshifters are exactly alike.

There's more info here, including a sample Shapeshifter character.

I find myself looking for one of these every couple of years, just wondering if an archtype has popped up that will do it.

In a nut shell Full BAB and can change into one or more shapes via a polymorph effect without the need of magical items or other party members.

There's a very cool new shapechanging base class called the Shapeshifter in the "Grimoire Viperian" Pathfinder compatible PDF book by Magic Skull Games.

It's not full BAB but close to it. The class is not just limited to animals but also lets you use alter self and change into mythical beasts of legend like the hellhound, winter wolf, centaur, nightmare, unicorn, sphinx and eventually giants and dragons.

You not only get some of the their standard abilities as you would from a beast shape spell, but you also get some of their special or spell-like abilities that normally aren't available with beast shape or polymorph spells. For example, when assuming hell hound form, you get its fire breathing ability. When assuming lamia form, you get some of its spell-like or supernatural magical abilities.

This Shapeshifter class is also highly customizable, letting you choose favored forms and special form abilities so no two shapeshifters are exactly alike.

There's more info here, including a sample Shapeshifter character.

Quote:

Yes. But the point is to help the paladin, to avoid him having to investigate all those evil low-level people, so he can instead focus on those who actually merit such focus.

Why should he investigate them? Did they do something wrong? Being evil-aligned isn't against the law. And Paladins are there to fight against evil, not investigate it.

I have to agree with Are, I've seen this happen time and again. Paladin detects evil and goes into overdrive. I disagree that it's not their job to investigate evil - it is, just maybe not every Joe Schmoe. Focus on the greater evil, as Are said. I agree though that there's no reason the paladin should go after someone just because they detect as evil. Like ImperatorK said, just being evil aligned doesn't justify attacking an NPC. Some paladin players will disagree with that, and that's fine. But I do think it ends up with a lot of wasted time in-game on inconsequential NPCs.

Quote:

It's also to help the game from turning into a "I detect evil in the bar. Oh, there's evil here. Well, I'll spend the next hour of game-time checking all of these people out and force the DM to come up with stories for all of them".

Again - why should he do that? That's not his job.

Again have to agree with Are. Seen this happen time and again. Many paladins DO think it's their job. But, then most paladin players I've played with don't run around constantly detecting evil in town. That's something I typically see very young or inexperienced players do, or those who just want to annoy the crap out of the GM. ;)

Did you miss all the discussion in the thread about different ways of foiling Detect Evil? Undetectable Alignment is a 1st/2nd level spell that any halfway competent subterfuge/infiltration baddie should keep up constantly (especially since a single casting/potion lasts a whole day).

Yes, I saw the discussion. But not every NPC is going to have access to these spells, or spells of any kind, depending on your game. Not every game has a magic potion shop in every city like some kind of medieval Walmart. And not every baddie has access to a sorcerer who can cast whatever spell they need, like some sort of medieval Jiffy Lube. ;)

I love the Paladin class, but too often I think his code and Detect Evil abilities lead to problems.

I give players a bit more leeway with the paladin code. If you force them to strictly adhere to the letter of the code law then they are bound to get into problems like the ones you mentioned. This is the medieval ages, after all, so not everyone, even a paladin, is always going to be a super goody two shoes or be insanely rigid.

Then there's Detect Evil. All the detect alignment spells are game spoilers IMHO. They hinder the mystique and subterfuge of NPCs and plots, since right away everyone knows who's evil and who's not. You can't blame the paladin player for using it though, he is supposed to be a crusader against evil. Still, all it takes is one Detect Evil and then everyone knows who the bad guys are.

If Detect Evil is so readily available, why don't the towns and cities just station a caster at every gate or walk through the town casting it, then arrest or expel all those who detect as evil?

Anyway, to answer your question about how to handle paladins in a world where evil can be all around, I'd suggest giving them a bit of leeway on their code and detect evil. Yes, a person might detect as evil, but until you can prove they've broken a law you can't just go and attack them. If the paladin were to confront every single evil person they met (thanks to Detect Evil - without this spell they would have to go on evidence and gut feelings), they would be fighting all the time.

A GM friend of mine actually modified the Detect Evil spell so it only works on powerful creatures of great, great evil, such as demons, devils, dragons, etc., not your average NPC. This means the plot subterfuge is protected and the paladin doesn't have to feel like he has to attack, arrest, or pursue every single evil person he detects.

I second "bamf" and the brimstone.

Alternately, if your GM or your players give you grief over it, go with the Knights Who Say Ni:

"Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-PTANG. Zoom-Boing. Z'nourrwringmm!"

See how they like that.

Sounds like the way we played the game when we were 10 years old.

Not my cup of tea, and if it's not your or your other player's cup either, then it's better to either have a talk with this player and explain the playing style you prefer or ask him to find another group.

The last option is hard because no one wants to be a jerk, but you can explain it in a way that states it's nothing personal but you think the player would be better off/happier in someone else's campaign that suits his playing style. Explain that you want to take the roleplaying more seriously and build the ambience of the game and the world you've created, and would prefer that players try this out rather than just do the cartoon/Monty Python silliness stuff.

Check out the Grimoire Viperian from Magic Skull Games.

This book has quite a bit of snake-themed stuff in it as well as a ton of other material which can easily be injected into the Serpent's Skull AP to change, enhance or expand it.

The book includes:

• 22 new prestige classes, many of which are snake-themed (Serpent Warlock, Silent Adder, Serpentine Druid, Serpentine Necromancer, Python Master, Cobra Master)

• spells (just to name a few: speed of the mamba, serpent strike, virulent venom, summon snake swarm, summon amphisbaena, serpent whip...) and a ton of non-snake themed spells useful in any campaign

• monsters (deadly snakes and snake variants, half-serpents, sentient serpents, vampiric serpents, serpentine undead, creatures of primal chaos, trog trolls, trog ettins, xocoutls, viperian dragons, etc.)

• magic items (python scale armor, serpent spears, sorcerous helms, etc.)

• new concepts like Eldritch Path Feats and Supernatural Signs (especially the Sign of the Vile Serpent for this AP)

• There's also two new base classes, the Shapeshifter and the Pyro. The shapeshifter can assume the forms of animals (that includes snakes!) and the pyro makes for a good tomb explorer type of character. Or both could be memorable NPCs.

It kind of finally sold out on the Paizo store, but if you can find a copy of Hamunaptra anywhere I wholeheartedly recommend it. It was made for 3.5 and is easy to carry over to PF. It has a LOT of material to further flesh out Osirion for your games, such as Egyptian-themed takes on most of the core races(along with a new "noble gnoll"/Anubis-like race).

Ahh, the Anubis guys were my favorite parts of the Mummy (Scorpion King?) movies. They were also in Stargate, though as sci-fi types. Still cool!

I hate witch familiars.. i really do.

Nothing says "Oh )(@#$)(*" like the DM telling you to make a fort save for your spellbook or asking "hey, whats your familiar's AC again?".

I really do like my witch's familiar but I feel rather hamstrung having to max out my stealth skill just to keep the bugger safe, not to mention never using it in combat for fear that it'll die. (and with it, 95% of my spell selection). i really wish they hadn't tied spellbook to familiar, for the witch.

-S

Good points, Selgard -- what can you do to further protect your witch familiar?

How about an Improved Familiar? That would be pretty cool IMHO.

I'm also confused a bit by the Improved Familiar feat prerequisites which state you can only get an improved familiar if "you could normally acquire a new familiar."

I assume this means only when your current familiar dies? Or can a witch dismiss a new familiar in favor of a new one? What happens to the witch's spells when her old familiar is gone or replaced?

Improved Familiar feat:

This feat allows you to acquire a powerful familiar, but only when you could normally acquire a new familiar.

Prerequisites: Ability to acquire a new familiar, compatible alignment, sufficiently high level.

I would like to ask the Pathfinder developers what else would be appropriate to include in this "package"? Would ki points go up or is that solely Monk level? What about BAB for Flurry of Blows and CMB from Maneuver Training ability?

I think it would depend a lot on what new abilities are added by the monk PrC. Some PrCs might continue to advance in some of the monk abilities, while leaving others behind. It's a trade off -- you get some new abilities the core monk class doesn't have but in exchange you sacrifice advancement in others.

I wouldn't design a monk PrC that continues on in all the core monk abilities or there wouldn't be a point in playing a straight monk.

Precise Shot would be handy for a thrown combat style, as well. Benefit: You can shoot or throw ranged weapons at an opponent engaged in melee without taking the standard –4 penalty on your attack roll.

Rapid Shot and Point Blank Shot would be nice, as well.

Throw Anything seems more like a suitable lower level feat than a 6th level feat, though. If I were a ranger throwing axe/spear thrower, I don't think I'd pick up Throw Anything in favor of the other feats.

Introducing an exciting new Pathfinder Roleplaying Game compatible PDF book from Magic Skull Games!

Grimoire Viperian adds new flavor and excitement to any game, for both players and GMs alike!

• 160+ pages of Pathfinder and OGL compatible content (PDF only available at this time)

• 4 out of 5 star rating

• Intriguing backstory designed to fit in with any campaign

• Exciting and unusual new base classes: the Shapeshifter and the Pyro

• 22 unique prestige classes, including many specifically designed for multi-class characters, and many with a serpentine, barbaric, elemental, knightly, assassin or weapon specialist theme. Just a few examples include the Serpent Warlock, Wolf Clan Warchief, Earth Lord, Storm Knight, Knight Heretic, Knight of the Death Angel, Silent Adder, Dread Crusher, Master of the Razor Scourge, and many more!

• Supernatural Signs of Good and Evil, designed to add customizable powers to any character, villain, or monster, and unique flavor to any campaign or adventure.

• New “Eldritch Path” feats provide a way for spellcasters to “specialize” in a unique path of themed spells, such as the Secrets of the Grimoire, Secrets of the Fiend, Secrets of the Netherdark, Secrets of the Mist, The Secret of Blades, and more!

• New spells of all kinds, including many designed with a serpentine theme in mind

• New magic items, weapons and armor, such as the Sorcerous Helm, Razor Scourge, Angelic Breastplate, Cobra Scale Armor, Black Mamba Scale Armor, Hellreaver Battle Axe, and more!

• New monsters and monster templates, such as creatures of Entropy, sentient serpents, deadlier variants of classic venomous snakes, serpentine undead, trog trolls, viperian dragons, and more!

Check out the product discussion thread for more info, including sneak previews!

Requires the use of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook, and some content makes use of rules from Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Advanced Player’s Guide, Bestiary 3, Ultimate Combat, and Ultimate Magic.

None of the core prestige classes seem to go well (or even fit from a RP perspective) with the Barbarian class. The only one that even seems remotely close would be the Red Dragon Disciple. Does anyone know of a source that I could use to start looking for a prestige class?

Thanks!

By the way, there are some core classes that fit well with the barbarian, IMHO:

Rogue: the rogue is often thought of as a stereotypical street fighter/thug/cat burglar type, but it all depends on how you look at it. A barbarian/rogue might have levels of rogue because he is extremely sneaky, an excellent scout, and is adept at striking vital areas of opponents in combat. Even in the wilderness, there are traps, such as snares, deadfalls, nets, etc., many of them designed to catch food but just as often enough designed to deter tribal enemies. A barbarian/rogue gets the rogue's sneak attack ability which is always nice especially when raging, and still useful when you are not raging. Since the barbarian and rogue are designed with lighter armor in mind, the two classes fit well there, too.

Ranger: a barbarian/ranger fits well thematically and mechanically. He makes an adept hunger, scout and explorer for the tribe. He knows the local terrain well and has an affinity for the local animals. The ranger combat style works nicely with the barbarian rage ability, and an animal companion or hunter's bond will always come in handy.

Druid: a barbarian/druid makes for a great war-oriented shaman for the tribe. He has an affinity for the spirits and is the spiritual leader, and his presence and abilities bolster the tribe during combat. He won't be wearing heavy or metal armor with this combo, but it doesn't matter since the barbarian does fine with light armor anyway. The druid animal companion or domain plus the barbarian rage make for a nice combo or for a more versatile character.

Cleric: like the barbarian/druid, the barbarian/cleric makes sense thematically if he worships a savage god, nature god, strength god or war god. He probably won't want to wear heavier armor to keep his fast barbarian speed, but the cleric spells and domain powers will probably complement his battle-prowess. Bull's strength and enlarge person are the classic buff spells dumped on a barbarian, and a cleric/barbarian will have access to them.

Sometimes it's hard to think of a class outside its stereotypical box. I like to think of them as a skill-set rather than a rigid theme, though I have to admit I typically think of a paladin as the holy knight in shining armor and the monk as a Bruce Lee type.

Oh yea -- I also forgot to mention another animal-themed barbarian prestige classes in the Grimoire Viperian:

Eagle Clan Warchief!

Hey all, I've built up both a wizard and a sorcerer version of a character I plan to play in an upcoming, starting game. I haven't been told what the others in the group are planning on doing with their characters, but I have made it quite clear to my DM that I intend to play a "Face" Arcane character, specializing in battlefield control and character manipulation.

I haven't played an arcane caster before and the closest I've come is a psion in 3.5. This games a 20 point build starting at lv. 3.

Without further ado, here they are:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

I really like your Serpentine Sorcerer, but then I might be biased since I love snake-themed stuff. This guy looks like a good controller and as a sorcerer he can cast a lot of control spells. Since he's serpent-themed, you might want to consider some summon monster spells to summon snakes, just for some offensive damage or distraction abilities.

Also check out the Grimoire Viperian which has several snake-themed prestige classes, spells and magic items.

The Serpent Warlock prestige class would fit nicely with this character, and would allow him to gain serpentine aspects and change into serpent form while retaining the charm/control spell theme.

Both Paizo and DrivethruRPG sell the Grimoire Viperian.