Yeah, but that's adamantine. That's like adamantine's THING.
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I really don't mind things like calling for a Dex check in the case of placing the grapnel. What I can't stand is 'you can't perform that action because it's a part of disable device, and you don't have that skill'. In fact, if you tell me that the cord is too tough to cut easily, I'll likely ask you what it's made of that resists my flaming longsword so easily, but that's fine, too. I don't even expect a chance to figure out everything...but if you tell me that...as I walk along carefully after stating that I'm watching for things out of the ordinary, especially near the floor...that I see a tripwire...and I can't do anything about it but blunder into it, I call BS.
That is not how I would do it. At minimum, you should be able to avoid tripping the obvious tripwire. There's a reason that anyone can find traps, and it's not just to point them out to the Disable Device guy. There often do exist ways to bypass traps (or remotely activate them) without formally disarming them, and that's fine. You don't need to pick the lock if you can kick in the door. The latter is just less subtle.
To be fair in turn, that +30 modifier in Disable Device should let you say "I disarm the trap" which ought to work just fine with accompanying roll/take 10, presuming the DC is reasonable. The dumb fighter might look at the wire and decide to cut it on general principle; the skilled rogue actually knows what he's doing.
And the dumb fighter might accidentally activate the trap by cutting the wire, if it's a clever trap. And if the dumb fighter goes around habitually cutting tripwires, I'll make sure he runs into at least one clever trap.
Which is why a smart fighter invests in one or two useful skills that cover gaps in the party!
Fair enough, and conceded. I'd add that some GM calls are reasonable (like needing a check to swing a rope across a pit, despite the lack of rules one way or the other) and some GM calls are not (like needing a check to pick up an object you can lift, despite the existence of rules for picking up objects, in the combat chapter).
Some GMs will make unreasonable calls. I like to think these people either wise up or don't stay GMs for long, but then I'm an idealist.
Good lines, one I've seen in samurai comics was putting a grain of rice between two knuckles, and cutting the rice in two without harming the holder. Maybe need an attack of 20, but could be a very cool demonstration.
"Before you force me to kill you..." ha ha ha, using that in game.
Our group had one, as the foes charge and shoot, raise shield and say "We do take prisoners." The delivery must be reasonable and happy.
That's awesome.
EDIT: In fact, I'm stealing that for my diplomatic barbarian.
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Mate, if you found a trip wire, it required a perception check. The fact you stated you were looking would mean I'd probably give a bonus for it.
Once you found it, if all it took was to cut it in order to disable the trap, then the DC would be something close to 0. Many traps have "triggers" that can be used to avoid them. What you've actually done is found the amazingly poorly hidden trap trigger.
You can now just step over it without setting it off. That hasn't disabled it, but has actually avoided it.
You can of course cut the wire, because that is the trigger, not the trap. Really easy traps can be found by anyone. Oce the trap trigger is found, anyone can use it to stop the trap.
The trick is to find them. You have pointed out an amazingly easy trap, and by rules you can avoid them. You just have to make a skill roll to find it first.
The trap itself could be anything, from a pit fall, to a spear trap, triggered by the wire. Disabling the trap may take far more than just cutting the wire. All the person who set the trap has to do is redo the wire and the trap is ready to go again. Disable device actually dismantles the trap (unless you beat it by high enough) so they cant reset it.
So, if a trap is so badly designed and appalingly hidden so that walking carefully down the hall and watching for it means you can find it without a roll, then that means the DC is zero, or low enough that your actions for searching have given enough of a bonus that you automatically pass the perception check.
Not many traps in games Ive seen or run have DC's that low, but hey, I haven't experienced everything in gaming.
Anyhow, all of this has nothing to do with fighters out of combat.
Cheers
Traps are disarmed by Disable Device. Friends are made by diplomacy. Lies are told by Bluff. People are intimidated not by big people with big swords, but by charismatic people with Intimidate. That's how it works. You can throw anything out if you want to, but then do throw out the skill as well. If instead of the diplomacy skill, I can just rely on my college rhetoric course, the skill has not place in the game. Similarly, with disable device.
I have thrown oratory (CHA) into a few games, for talking to large numbers of people (since it is different to individualistic diplomacy) and getting them on your side and to accept your point of view.
Social combat can be pretty good. Especially between players in a kingmaker type situation.
So I agree with you kultist, but it can lead to the weird situation where no one is scared (by the mechanics) of the total bad-ass killer who could totally kill you and your friends in six seconds because his charisma and/or intimidate isn't great. He can keep trying that intimidate, but it can easily be to no avail. The DM could give it to you, but by the mechanics you fail (and one game, a tengu bard with intimidate and a great charisma couldn't scare low level streetwalkers).
The cavalier that has impaled all manner of people and monsters, dismounted and smashed their way through tombs and monster warrens is not scary, even if they try, if they don't have intimidate and good charisma.
It strikes me as odd, but this system really rewards specialisation.
Agreed on all counts (and hopefully not a double post!).And the dumb fighter might accidentally activate the trap by cutting the wire, if it's a clever trap. And if the dumb fighter goes around habitually cutting tripwires, I'll make sure he runs into at least one clever trap.
Which is why a smart fighter invests in one or two useful skills that cover gaps in the party!
Take all that wire, a pair of scissors and a 15 foot pole. Combine. Snip, snip!
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Mate, if you found a trip wire, it required a perception check. The fact you stated you were looking would mean I'd probably give a bonus for it.
Once you found it, if all it took was to cut it in order to disable the trap, then the DC would be something close to 0. Many traps have "triggers" that can be used to avoid them. What you've actually done is found the amazingly poorly hidden trap trigger.
You can now just step over it without setting it off. That hasn't disabled it, but has actually avoided it.
You can of course cut the wire, because that is the trigger, not the trap. Really easy traps can be found by anyone. Oce the trap trigger is found, anyone can use it to stop the trap.
The trick is to find them. You have pointed out an amazingly easy trap, and by rules you can avoid them. You just have to make a skill roll to find it first.
The trap itself could be anything, from a pit fall, to a spear trap, triggered by the wire. Disabling the trap may take far more than just cutting the wire. All the person who set the trap has to do is redo the wire and the trap is ready to go again. Disable device actually dismantles the trap (unless you beat it by high enough) so they cant reset it.
So, if a trap is so badly designed and appalingly hidden so that walking carefully down the hall and watching for it means you can find it without a roll, then that means the DC is zero, or low enough that your actions for searching have given enough of a bonus that you automatically pass the perception check.
Not many traps in games Ive seen or run have DC's that low, but hey, I haven't experienced everything in gaming.
Anyhow, all of this has nothing to do with fighters out of combat.
Cheers
This is all stuff I'm good with. In many an old module, you'd find references to tripwires and the odds of finding them, not just for rogues, (thieves, back then) but everybody. I've had more than one DM describe to me where the wire went...so I've had a decent idea of what it would do. I've also run across them and had no clue...in which case the SOP was to step over them.
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Take all that wire, a pair of scissors and a 15 foot pole. Combine. Snip, snip!Agreed on all counts (and hopefully not a double post!).And the dumb fighter might accidentally activate the trap by cutting the wire, if it's a clever trap. And if the dumb fighter goes around habitually cutting tripwires, I'll make sure he runs into at least one clever trap.
Which is why a smart fighter invests in one or two useful skills that cover gaps in the party!
Yes, and I've done that. The biggest issue there is...do you have scissors? Not often.
An agitated stray cat on a pole?
May need to replace the cat.
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Traps are disarmed by Disable Device. Friends are made by diplomacy. Lies are told by Bluff. People are intimidated not by big people with big swords, but by charismatic people with Intimidate. That's how it works. You can throw anything out if you want to, but then do throw out the skill as well. If instead of the diplomacy skill, I can just rely on my college rhetoric course, the skill has not place in the game. Similarly, with disable device.
You have to make diplomacy checks to make friends?
How sad.
...and you seriously think people are not intimidated by people with big swords that can rip other peoples heads off? Especially when they've done it?
Really?
I tend to give bonuses/penalties on intimidate on the same principles as bluff and diplomacy gives bonuses if the bluff/request is (un)reasonable.
If you physically threaten a huge gorumite berserker who is clearly superior in the art of violence, I am going to give your roll a penalty. The threat is simply not plausible. But threaten him that if he does not step down, he will be killed in his sleep by your allies, and he will die a dog's death, which is a great fear for most gorumites, he will likely be more receptive.
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I have thrown oratory (CHA) into a few games, for talking to large numbers of people (since it is different to individualistic diplomacy) and getting them on your side and to accept your point of view.
Social combat can be pretty good. Especially between players in a kingmaker type situation.
So I agree with you kultist, but it can lead to the weird situation where no one is scared (by the mechanics) of the total bad-ass killer who could totally kill you and your friends in six seconds because his charisma and/or intimidate isn't great. He can keep trying that intimidate, but it can easily be to no avail. The DM could give it to you, but by the mechanics you fail (and one game, a tengu bard with intimidate and a great charisma couldn't scare low level streetwalkers).
The cavalier that has impaled all manner of people and monsters, dismounted and smashed their way through tombs and monster warrens is not scary, even if they try, if they don't have intimidate and good charisma.
It strikes me as odd, but this system really rewards specialisation.
Just remember, it's the DM who sets the initial attitude of NPCs . At the first few levels, most folk are imdifferent to the NPCs. After this though, their rep is likely to lead the, to bigger and better things, and people will know about them. NPCs are more likely to start as helpful here, meaning rolls are less likely. More importantly, low level enemy NPCs R likey to be scared already. Maybe not shaken, but certainly more ready to flee when they start dying.
All of this comes to the campaign setting.
However, when NPCs start angry then you need skills to change that.
Remember, you can take feats that make intimidate based of strength rather than charisma. They work wonderfully for fighters and other strength based characters, assuming you have the feats available for such things.
There's also skill focus, again for those with feats to spare.
And there's the clincher, fighters have feats to spare. They can be as good out of combat as you want them to be just on those two feats alone.
Cheers
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I even said you can cut the wire, you can disarm the trap, you can do whatever you want as long as your character is capable of doing so.
Again, are ranks in Disable Device really considered necessary to pull a rope?
Dude described actions that he took to obtain the key, without even being certain that there WAS a trap.
Are you really saying that if there was no trap, then he would have simply tugged the key loose, but because there is a trap, he's physically incapable of pulling the rope?
I tend to give bonuses/penalties on intimidate on the same principles as bluff and diplomacy gives bonuses if the bluff/request is (un)reasonable.
If you physically threaten a huge gorumite berserker who is clearly superior in the art of violence, I am going to give your roll a penalty. The threat is simply not plausible. But threaten him that if he does not step down, he will be killed in his sleep by your allies, and he will die a dog's death, which is a great fear for most gorumites, he will likely be more receptive.
There are rules for circumstantial modifiers. In particular there is a rule for how size effects intimidate. I would not advise going beyond these. After all, the power and experience of the Gorumite is already figured into the intimidate DC by including his hit dice. So is his ability to call a bluff by including his wisdom.
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There are rules for circumstantial modifiers. In particular there is a rule for how size effects intimidate. I would not advise going beyond these. After all, the power and experience of the Gorumite is already figured into the intimidate DC by including his hit dice. So is his ability to call a bluff by including his wisdom.I tend to give bonuses/penalties on intimidate on the same principles as bluff and diplomacy gives bonuses if the bluff/request is (un)reasonable.
If you physically threaten a huge gorumite berserker who is clearly superior in the art of violence, I am going to give your roll a penalty. The threat is simply not plausible. But threaten him that if he does not step down, he will be killed in his sleep by your allies, and he will die a dog's death, which is a great fear for most gorumites, he will likely be more receptive.
What's the circumstantial modifier for a band of CE orc Bbns rampaging through the town to an average Com 1-2 shopkeeper as they rape, savage, and plunder?
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It depends on the number of them. Circumstance modifiers stack with each other, so aid another to your heart's content.What's the circumstantial modifier for a band of CE orc Bbns rampaging through the town to an average Com 1-2 shopkeeper as they rape, savage, and plunder?There are rules for circumstantial modifiers. In particular there is a rule for how size effects intimidate. I would not advise going beyond these. After all, the power and experience of the Gorumite is already figured into the intimidate DC by including his hit dice. So is his ability to call a bluff by including his wisdom.I tend to give bonuses/penalties on intimidate on the same principles as bluff and diplomacy gives bonuses if the bluff/request is (un)reasonable.
If you physically threaten a huge gorumite berserker who is clearly superior in the art of violence, I am going to give your roll a penalty. The threat is simply not plausible. But threaten him that if he does not step down, he will be killed in his sleep by your allies, and he will die a dog's death, which is a great fear for most gorumites, he will likely be more receptive.
You see, that's where I assume intimidation, without even an attempt. He'll be lucky if he hasn't soiled himself...and odds are, none of them have even a +5. :p
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..but I think you just did.
There's an "out of combat"?
Yeah, see the bolded portion below:
Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man. For war consisteth not in battle only, or the act of fighting, but in a tract of time, wherein the will to contend by battle is sufficiently known: and therefore the notion of time is to be considered in the nature of war, as it is in the nature of weather. For as the nature of foul weather lieth not in a shower or two of rain, but in an inclination thereto of many days together: so the nature of war consisteth not in actual fighting, but in the known disposition thereto during all the time there is no assurance to the contrary. All other time is peace.
I guess that would be the "out of combat."
Traps are disarmed by Disable Device. Friends are made by diplomacy. Lies are told by Bluff. People are intimidated not by big people with big swords, but by charismatic people with Intimidate. That's how it works. You can throw anything out if you want to, but then do throw out the skill as well. If instead of the diplomacy skill, I can just rely on my college rhetoric course, the skill has not place in the game. Similarly, with disable device.
You have to make diplomacy checks to make friends?
How sad.
...and you seriously think people are not intimidated by people with big swords that can rip other peoples heads off? Especially when they've done it?
Really?
Awww he is so shy, I'll just beat up that low charisma bodyguard/duellist/greatswordsman.
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I'm always hesitant to play a fighter, because even in Pathfinder I find that I don't have any abilities that allow me to perform out of combat. Anyone have any solutions to shore up a fighter's usefulness out of combat? Any feats that might allow some utility?
I had a troll Fighter once, and when he wasn't fighting, he was exploring a lot, cracking jokes, or picking his nose with his greatsword. Occasionally he'd go in a little too deep, and fall over whilst twitching.
That answer your question?
I'm always hesitant to play a fighter, because even in Pathfinder I find that I don't have any abilities that allow me to perform out of combat. Anyone have any solutions to shore up a fighter's usefulness out of combat? Any feats that might allow some utility?I had a troll Fighter once, and when he wasn't fighting, he was exploring a lot, cracking jokes, or picking his nose with his greatsword. Occasionally he'd go in a little too deep, and fall over whilst twitching.
That answer your question?
I highlighted some key words that you and a large number of other people seem to be missing.
Cracking jokes and picking your nose with a Greatsword may be amusing, yes.
But it's not useful and does not give you any more utility.
Trolls are jokers in my setting too. The condition of being a monster surrounded by adventurers can be pretty funny and rife for jokes.
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I'm always hesitant to play a fighter, because even in Pathfinder I find that I don't have any abilities that allow me to perform out of combat. Anyone have any solutions to shore up a fighter's usefulness out of combat? Any feats that might allow some utility?I had a troll Fighter once, and when he wasn't fighting, he was exploring a lot, cracking jokes, or picking his nose with his greatsword. Occasionally he'd go in a little too deep, and fall over whilst twitching.
That answer your question?
I highlighted some key words that you and a large number of other people seem to be missing.
Cracking jokes and picking your nose with a Greatsword may be amusing, yes.
But it's not useful and does not give you any more utility.
Given any situation, I can find useful things to do. Really. People do that, everyday, even without being adventurers.
Given any situation, I can find useful things to do. Really. People do that, everyday, even without being adventurers.
Here's a scenario: You're a professional athlete with little to no skill in any other sort of setting. You're not charismatic or persuasive, you're of average intelligence at best, and you're no more perceptive or aware than anyone else you know.
The rest of your friends (A lawyer, a priest, and a professor) need to convince a known hardass penny-pincher to fund their trip through the Amazon. You come to help them.
How do you make yourself useful?
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Out of combat stuff that a fighter can do:
- Perform the strength checks to break open doors and such with DCs over 22.
- Climb up an incline, swim a ford or whatnot and toss over a rope to pull up/over the the party-members who cannot climb/swim at all, with his huge strength.
- Carry the stuff that the scrawny casters cannot (sure, you can remedy weight with bags of holding etc, but a 700lbs gold statue ain't gonna fit in the bag. And even if you were to cast Floating Disc, you need to get it onto and off the disc)
- Aid on skills as long as he puts 1 rank into the field of interest. Even the least charismatic fighter can on average make the DC10 aid check for intimidate, to stand there looking menacing with his big muscles and sharp blade.
- Go first and soak the damage from the traps, and make the poison dart fort saves, because you don't have a trap-finder.
- Craft magical arms and armor. Just costs you two feats, and you have tons.
- Forage for food, keep the party from getting lost, keeping them out of natural hazards. Survival is finally a class skill.
- Tend the mounts with Handle Animal.
- Prepare for the next fight. This is more a personal thing, but I find that the less supernatural stuff my character can do, the more I am able to make mundane plans and think of convenience. More often than not, it is my martial characters that remember to bring rope, sun-rods, antitoxins etc, because with casters I tend to spend too much of the prep time looking for spells and spell completion items.
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Given any situation, I can find useful things to do. Really. People do that, everyday, even without being adventurers.Here's a scenario: You're a professional athlete with little to no skill in any other sort of setting. You're not charismatic or persuasive, you're of average intelligence at best, and you're no more perceptive or aware than anyone else you know.
The rest of your friends (A lawyer, a priest, and a professor) need to convince a known hardass penny-pincher to fund their trip through the Amazon. You come to help them.
How do you make yourself useful?
I'm not going with them. I'm going to do the shopping...window shopping, until the money comes in. If I need to, I'll go to a couple of experts, to get their advice on needs...then I'll meet the party where they're talking to him, with an itemized list.
I'm not going with them. I'm going to do the shopping...window shopping, until the money comes in. If I need to, I'll go to a couple of experts, to get their advice on needs...then I'll meet the party where they're talking to him, with an itemized list.
So basically, nothing anyone else couldn't have done just as well.
That pretty much answers the question.
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I'm not going with them. I'm going to do the shopping...window shopping, until the money comes in. If I need to, I'll go to a couple of experts, to get their advice on needs...then I'll meet the party where they're talking to him, with an itemized list.So basically, nothing anyone else couldn't have done just as well.
That pretty much answers the question.
*shrug* Yes. Absolutely. But...why doesn't that count?
Didn't you notice that was what I was saying in the post you responded to?
*shrug* Yes. Absolutely. But...why doesn't that count?I'm not going with them. I'm going to do the shopping...window shopping, until the money comes in. If I need to, I'll go to a couple of experts, to get their advice on needs...then I'll meet the party where they're talking to him, with an itemized list.So basically, nothing anyone else couldn't have done just as well.
That pretty much answers the question.
Because anyone else could have done it just as well or better.
Hell, the Diplomacy check to gather info on the stuff needed is probably something you can't make anyway, so you're just left with the "No duh, dipshit" supplies like rope, water, and so on.
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*shrug* Yes. Absolutely. But...why doesn't that count?I'm not going with them. I'm going to do the shopping...window shopping, until the money comes in. If I need to, I'll go to a couple of experts, to get their advice on needs...then I'll meet the party where they're talking to him, with an itemized list.So basically, nothing anyone else couldn't have done just as well.
That pretty much answers the question.
Because anyone else could have done it just as well or better.
Hell, the Diplomacy check to gather info on the stuff needed is probably something you can't make anyway, so you're just left with the "No duh, d$~#$$+" supplies like rope, water, and so on.
Diplomacy check to find out what somebody knows that would be helpful...HUH???
Is the world against us?
I mean...if I have to pay a guy for his time, so what...but diplomacy check? Am I suddenly in enemy territory?
I'm not going with them. I'm going to do the shopping...window shopping, until the money comes in. If I need to, I'll go to a couple of experts, to get their advice on needs...then I'll meet the party where they're talking to him, with an itemized list.Given any situation, I can find useful things to do. Really. People do that, everyday, even without being adventurers.Here's a scenario: You're a professional athlete with little to no skill in any other sort of setting. You're not charismatic or persuasive, you're of average intelligence at best, and you're no more perceptive or aware than anyone else you know.
The rest of your friends (A lawyer, a priest, and a professor) need to convince a known hardass penny-pincher to fund their trip through the Amazon. You come to help them.
How do you make yourself useful?
Depends on whether or not you DM has a vendetta with fighters out of combat skills.
The merchants could lie to you. The experts could be sponsored by those merchants. You can't find the object due to low perception. You don't know what the objects are because of your knowledge check. You don't know how much they are worth without appraise. Since you have no knowledge ranks, when you do talk to an experts you can't retain any information they tell you.
You make the skill system unfun and annoying if you really try hard enough. Consequently, you also make skills more useful that way...
Diplomacy check to find out what somebody knows that would be helpful...HUH???Is the world against us?
I mean...if I have to pay a guy for his time, so what...but diplomacy check? Am I suddenly in enemy territory?
Yes, that is what the Gather Info usage is for. Are you telling me you've never played in an adventure that's used those rules? Because it's a fairly common usage.
"I want to know info about X location"
"Make a Diplomacy check, DCs 15/20/25, different info for each tier"
Then you get info based on your check.
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Diplomacy check to find out what somebody knows that would be helpful...HUH???Is the world against us?
I mean...if I have to pay a guy for his time, so what...but diplomacy check? Am I suddenly in enemy territory?
Yes, that is what the Gather Info usage is for. Are you telling me you've never played in an adventure that's used those rules? Because it's a fairly common usage.
"I want to know info about X location"
"Make a Diplomacy check, DCs 15/20/25, different info for each tier"
Then you get info based on your check.
Does the average Joe have reliable gather information? That's something ANYBODY can do, as you pointed out...now you're reneging. Clever.
Eh?
What am I reneging on? I don't believe I ever said anybody can gather info. Though they can, since Diplomacy can be made untrained, they have a slim chance of making them if the DC is above 10.
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Eh?
What am I reneging on? I don't believe I ever said anybody can gather info. Though they can, since Diplomacy can be made untrained, they have a slim chance of making them if the DC is above 10.
Ok...think. I ask people for that sort of information...on an everyday basis. What level of diplomacy must I have, when I'm almost ALWAYS successful?
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You're a character in an RPG now?
You don't use Diplomacy Eldon, you just speak to people.
And you walk up to random people and ask stuff like "What supplies would I need for an expedition to the Amazon" on a regular basis?
Well, there you have it. My fighter does, too...and if that's a problem, it's on your end.You're a character in an RPG now?
You don't use Diplomacy Eldon, you just speak to people.
Except I doubt you walk up to random people in the street, and stop them to ask questions they may or may not know the answer to.
I dunno about you but if I stopped a random guy to ask him trivia questions he'd probably give me a funny look and walk off.
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Well, there you have it. My fighter does, too...and if that's a problem, it's on your end.You're a character in an RPG now?
You don't use Diplomacy Eldon, you just speak to people.
Except I doubt you walk up to random people in the street, and stop them to ask questions they may or may not know the answer to.
I dunno about you but if I stopped a random guy to ask him trivia questions he'd probably give me a funny look and walk off.
You live in a straw house, don't you?
Is there anyone who might have a clue about the things we'll need? Maybe someone who has done any level of roughing it, before? Any reason my ATHLETE doesn't have that experience?
I'm not just walking up to any guy on the street. Are you that stupid? If no, give me some credit, then.
Then who are you walking up to? And how did you find them? And then how did you get in to see them?
And then how did you convince this person to give this random guy he doesn't even know a detailed explanation of what to watch out for and prepare for in a certain area?
Like I said, your athlete and other people who've been on even a camping trip before probably knows the obvious shit, like "Hey, rope is useful I should get some of that" and "Food and water are kind of important", sure.
But you started talking about conversing with experts to find shit out. That's quite different.
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Then who are you walking up to? And how did you find them? And then how did you get in to see them?
And then how did you convince this person to give this random guy he doesn't even know a detailed explanation of what to watch out for and prepare for in a certain area?
Like I said, your athlete and other people who've been on even a camping trip before probably knows the obvious s$%~, like "Hey, rope is useful I should get some of that" and "Food and water are kind of important", sure.
But you started talking about conversing with experts to find s!*$ out. That's quite different.
Seriously?
Are you incapable of finding someone who has expertise in living in the wilds? I know I'm not. I'm finding this pretty ridiculous, at this point. Go to the average army surplus store someday. Get a little experience in life. It's not hard.
Assuming all of us real people are 1~3rd level commoners/experts/warriors with NPC stat array, I'd say the best Diplomacy bonus someone IRL would have is a +10 (+2 Cha, +3 class skill, +3 ranks + Skill Focus), but that's is a really eloquent Diplomat, Lawyer, Politician or whatever...
For most people, that Diplomacy bonus would be a +0... But let's assume a +5.
Gather Information
You can also use Diplomacy to gather information about a specific topic or individual. To do this, you must spend at least 1d4 hours canvassing people at local taverns, markets, and gathering places. The DC of this check depends on the obscurity of the information sought, but for most commonly known facts or rumors it is 10. For obscure or secret knowledge, the DC might increase to 20 or higher.
So by taking 10, you can easily find out where is the closest bust stop or who is the president of your nation. That knowledge is pretty common. But I don't think most people know what supplies you need to go on a expedition to the Amazon... so that'd be a DC 20 (or higher). So taking 10 wouldn't suffice, you'd have to try really hard, and hope that you roll a 15 (that means you were lucky/skilled enough to find someone with the necessary information) That's a pretty difficult check, though. Of course, you can spend a lot of time and eventually succeed (Taking 20).
Not to mention a few other things:
1: Gather Information it's a time consuming activity...
Gather Information: Using Diplomacy to gather information takes 1d4 hours of work, searching for rumors and informants.
That means Taking 20 would take an average of 50h! That's over 2 whole days of work! Even if you don't need to sleep and dedicated all your time to this task!
.2: Sometimes, no matter how well you roll, you won't get any useful information unless you specifically go after someone with the necessary knowledge.
The GM might rule that some topics are simply unknown to common folk.
It's a decent representation of how it works IRL.