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It says on page 186 that if you take a move action you can't take a 5 foot step. But it says on page 183 on the actions in combat table that a 5 foot step is a free action.
I think that confuses people. Should'nt a 5 foot step be listed as a move action because that is the only move you can do in a round?
It says on page 186 that if you take a move action you can't take a 5 foot step. But it says on page 183 on the actions in combat table that a 5 foot step is a free action.
I think that confuses people. Should'nt a 5 foot step be listed as a move action because that is the only move you can do in a round?
If it were listed as a move action, then you couldn't make a full round action the same round in which you use a 5 foot step, which you currently can.
Its a free action that is only available if you have not taken a move action during the round.
It says on page 186 that if you take a move action you can't take a 5 foot step. But it says on page 183 on the actions in combat table that a 5 foot step is a free action.
I think that confuses people. Should'nt a 5 foot step be listed as a move action because that is the only move you can do in a round?
A 5 ft step is not a move action because you can take it an any point as long as you have not moved.
Example:
You decide on a full attack action. Before, after, or even in the middle of that full attack action you may take a 5 ft step, but you would not be allowed a move action or to move any further than that 5 ft.
It says on page 186 that if you take a move action you can't take a 5 foot step.
Incorrect. It states that you can only take a 5 foot step when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Movement is not the same as a move action. The majority of movement requires move actions, but not all move actions are movement. For example, unsheathing a weapon isn't movement, but is a move action (if you don't have Quick Draw).
It says on page 186 that if you take a move action you can't take a 5 foot step. But it says on page 183 on the actions in combat table that a 5 foot step is a free action.
I think that confuses people. Should'nt a 5 foot step be listed as a move action because that is the only move you can do in a round?
It also says on page 186
The simplest move action is moving your speed. If you take this kind of move action during your turn, you can’t also take a 5-foot step.
It is a free action to take a 5-foot step and the ONLY move action that prevents you from taking one as a free action is a move. Other move actions - like drawing a weapon - do not prevent a 5-foot step. Also remember that you are not limited to a single move action. You can make 2 if you forgo a standard action
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That does clear it up a bit thanks. I think I am going to house rule thou that if you do movement you can't do a 5 foot step and vice versa. You can still do other move actions.
I feel that if you are taking a 5 foot step you are being careful to not get attacked, and watching where you are moving to and all that.
That does clear it up a bit thanks. I think I am going to house rule thou that if you do movement you can't do a 5 foot step and vice versa. You can still do other move actions.
I feel that if you are taking a 5 foot step you are being careful to not get attacked, and watching where you are moving to and all that.
Um... that's not much of a house rule since that's the normal rule but go for it!
Um... that's not much of a house rule since that's the normal rule but go for it!
Exactly. For example, a character taking heavy fire from a group of hobgoblins could take a five foot step to get behind cover, pull a potion of cure serious wounds from his belt pouch as a move action, and then drink it as a standard action as per the Pathfinder rules.
The same character could not move 30 feet to a door, use a move action to open the door, and then take a five foot step through the doorway, because you can't take a five foot step if you've already moved during the round. If the character had already been standing at the door, he could take a move action to open it, then a five foot step to move through, and follow up with a spell or an attack.
ok i know this thread is long dead. but... im fighting this point with my group right now. the way i read it i can shoot a crossbow, reload it, and 5ft shift. Right??
Yes sir.
ok i know this thread is long dead. but... im fighting this point with my group right now. the way i read it i can shoot a crossbow, reload it, and 5ft shift. Right??
yes (assuming its a light crossbow) even though re loading the cross bow is a move *equivalent* action there's no movement, so you can still 5 foot step
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ok i know this thread is long dead....Since necromancy has been invoked, I'll also mention that there is a repeated error in this thread. Five-foot step isn't a free action. It is no action. This is a largely meaningless distinction, but does come up in some cases.
That seems surprising, but probably fits best of the standard choices and agrees with Table 8-2, since there seems to be no clearer ruling in the text. I'd prefer to say a 5-foot step is its own separate type of action.
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So (casts Raise Dead on thread) to clarify... if a person uses a move action to stand, a standard action to draw a potion (or weapon without Quick Draw) AND take a 5-foot step? Cause I'm reading it as "a move action takes the place of movement or a standard action" from my spot behind the screen... and I don't think I would try otherwise as a player. Any help?
So (casts Raise Dead on thread) to clarify... if a person uses a move action to stand, a standard action to draw a potion (or weapon without Quick Draw) AND take a 5-foot step? Cause I'm reading it as "a move action takes the place of movement or a standard action" from my spot behind the screen... and I don't think I would try otherwise as a player. Any help?
As long as you don't move(change squares/hexes) you can take a 5-ft step or move to another square normally, assuming you have the actions available.
Short answer:Yes the 5-ft step is still available.
Using your move actions don't mean you lose movement. You can still use movement, but it take away your standard action for the round.
You can always use a standard action to do a move action is the reason why.
So a Move Action does not count as movement... and you can take, basically THREE actions?! For example, 1) Stand up from prone (a move action), 2) retrieve a potion (a standard action), and 3) take a 5-foot step to be safe from melee attacks. And this is okay?
Correct.
A 5-foot step doesn't exactly make you entirely safe from melee attacks, since your opponent can simply take a 5-foot step himself and then full-attack you on his turn.
It says on page 186 that if you take a move action you can't take a 5 foot step. But it says on page 183 on the actions in combat table that a 5 foot step is a free action.
I think that confuses people. Should'nt a 5 foot step be listed as a move action because that is the only move you can do in a round?
You always get a 5 foot step unless you do any other movement in that round.
Examples:
Fighter uses a move action to get next to the wizard. Because his Base attack bonus is +1 he also draws his sword and does a single attack against the wizard. He can't take a 5 foot step.
Wizard takes a 5 foot step away from the fighter. The wizard spends a move action to draw a wand of magic missiles and uses a standard action to uses the wand against the fighter. If the wizard has a Base attack Bonus of +1 or higher he could move his movement and draw the wand.
Fighter takes a 5 foot step next to the wizard and does a full round attack against him. Only one attack because he's first level.
Wizard(almost dead) takes a 5 foot step away from the fighter uses move action to retrieve a potion and uses a standard action to drink the potion(wizard is now invisible).
Fighter takes a 5 foot step next to where he last saw the wizard and does a full round attack against the square. But he misses because of 50% miss chance.
Wizard cast Expeditious Retreat as a standard action and uses his move action to move 60 feet away. He can't take a 5 foot step.
Fighter gets a perception check to try to find the wizard but fails. He delays. He can't take a 5 foot step unless he un-delays.
Wizard runs full speed away. He can't take a 5 foot step.
The end
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Okay. So looking into this issue has raised some more questions, but first I have to say I would REALLY like some input from a designer/developer into this one. If this has been answered by someone in an official position at Paizo on these fourms about this issue before, please link me to it; I would like the clarification.
I said...
So a Move Action does not count as movement... and you can take, basically THREE actions?! For example, 1) Stand up from prone (a move action), 2) retrieve a potion (a standard action), and 3) take a 5-foot step to be safe from melee attacks. And this is okay?
to which I got this response...
Correct
So, following that logic that Move Actions are not considered movement, Quick Draw is the most useless feat ever (with the exception of that "full attack action with thrown weapons" thing) because drawing a weapon is a Move action that does not count as movement and thus, you can still make a 5-foot step...
You can move 5 feet in any direction when you don't perform any other kind of movement
...then why do you have to have this feat, even if you do not have a +1 Base Attack Bonus? In essence, you are saying a Move Action is a Free Action by allowing this.
I compared in on the chart (PF Core 187) to other Move Actions, thinking maybe whether it provoked an Attack of Opportunity might be the deciding factor on what Move Actions can be done and still allow a 5-step. And guess what? Drawing a weapon does NOT provoke an AoO... but neither does closing a door. Does this mean I can make a 5 foot step to a door, use a Move Action to open it, and run like hell on the other for side for the my full (For example: 30 feet) movement? Seems like a lot to me!
And while I noticed that the Core book DOES say the following...
The simplest move action is moving your speed. If you take THIS kind of action during your turn, you cant take a 5-foot step.
...it goes on afterward to list the rest of the Move Actions, which (according to the response I got) do NOT take the place of an actual move (since you can still take a 5-foot step!)... making MOVEMENT seem to be the ONLY Move Action to prevent a 5-foot step.
Furthermore, I have to ask, if a person with a +1 BAB can draw a weapon as part of a move action for free, can he still do this if he does NOT actually move?
On an off subject, I also noticed, while looking into this, this odd following piece of text
Some combat maneuvers substitute for a melee attack, not an action.
Can someone tell me what combat maneuvers you can take that are NOT an attack? Just curious.
Now my head hurts from all of this...
stuff
A lot of us have been doing this for years, and we can answer your question a lot faster than a dev will.
When I said a move action is not movement what I meant was that is the two are not synonymous. If you move(change squares) it is a move action, but just becuase you take a move action that does not mean your chance to move(change squares is lost)..
Example: All cars are automobiles, but not all automobiles are cars.
Some combat maneuvers substitute for a melee attack, not an action.
What this means is that some combat maneuvers can be substituted in the place of an attack. While other specifically take up a standard actioin
Example: If you are making a full attack you can try to trip someone in place of any of those attacks.
Grappling however is a standard action, and you just swap out a normal attack in the middle of a full attack for a grapple attempt.
Grapple
As a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering his combat options..
Trip
You can attempt to trip your opponent in place of a melee attack.
You have to look up each combat maneuver to see if it takes a standard action or not.
You can take a non-provoking 5´ step as a free action IF YOU DON´T MAKE ANY OTHER MOVEMENT.
Movement for this purpose is changing squares. This can be accomplished via a ¨Move¨ Move Action, Run Action, Charge Action, Spring Attack Action, Withdraw action, and probably some others I´m forgetting... they just have to accomplish changing your position on the grid. (the 5´ step also counts as movement for other effects which care about it, though it specifically doesn´t provoke AoO´s like movement normally does)
The ¨Move¨ Move Action can also be referred to in the rules as ´a regular move´, like when the rules say:
¨If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can [draw a weapon or shield] with a regular move.¨
The Charge action also states ¨If you move a distance equal to your speed or less, you can also draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1.¨ (YES, it is needlessly obscure that this isn´t mentioned on the action table along with drawing a weapon during the ¨Move¨ Move Action)
Quickdraw may not seem very useful at low levels, because a Full Attack may not actually have extra attacks compared to a (Standard) Attack Action, although 2WF and Rapid Fire do offer extra attacks on Full Attacks even at low levels... But once you have multiple attacks making you really prefer to make Full Attacks, Quickdraw is very useful becaue it lets you go from un-armed to armed and still get multiple attacks in one round... Without it, you have to spend a Move Action one way or another to draw your weapon... It doesn´t matter if you stay still/5´ step and use a Move Action to draw the weapon, or you draw the weapon for free as part of a ¨Regular Move¨, you´ve still spent a Move Action, which prevents a Full Attack Action... meaning you can only take a (Standard) Attack Action instead of the Full-Round ¨¨Full Attack¨ action.
Some maneuvers say ´in place of a melee attack´, meaning they can be ´substituted´ whenever you could make a melee attack, meaning an attack action, a cleave, a full attack, an AoO. Others require a specific action, like a Standard Action, meaning they aren´t compatable with those other options, must only allow taking a ´Move Action´ (and Swift, Free) in the same Turn. Sunder uses the (Standard) Attack Action, so Feats like Vital Strike will apply to Sunder attempts, but it likewise can´t be done via FulL Attack, Cleave, AoO, etc.
Sorry for the long post... and regardless of how it seems, I don't come on these forums to stir up trouble. I REALLY do like clarification... especially since, as a PFS coordinator, so many come to me with questions like the one above, even my fellow GMs.
It is ok. I learned a lot by "living" on the boards.
To Clarify:
If you are doing a full attack action you can take a 5 foot step before your attacks, between attacks, or after your attacks.
If you are casting a spell that takes a full round action you can take a 5 foot step before, during, or after the spell has been cast(if it has been cast.)
If you are using a special ability that takes a full round action you can take a 5 foot step before, during, or after the ability as long as the ability does not move you any distance.(this might not alway be true)
You can't take a 5 foot step with a withdraw or run action.
If you are using a Standard and move action, Move action and standard action, or move action and move action you can take a 5 foot step before, during, or after your actions as long as you don't use your move action to move any actual distance on your turn.
You can't take a 5 foot step if you are in difficult terrain. You can use a move action to move 5 feet in difficult terrain but it provokes an attack of opportunity.
Basically as long as you don't use an action to move your miniature to any other square you can move your miniature to any unoccupied adjacent square.
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To Clarify:
If you are doing a full attack action you can take a 5 foot step before your attacks, between attacks, or after your attacks.
If you are casting a spell that takes a full round action you can take a 5 foot step before, during, or after the spell has been cast(if it has been cast.)
If you are using a special ability that takes a full round action you can take a 5 foot step before, during, or after the ability as long as the ability does not move you any distance.(this might not alway be true)
You can't take a 5 foot step with a withdraw or run action.
If you are using a Standard and move action, Move action and standard action, or move action and move action you can take a 5 foot step before, during, or after your actions as long as you don't use your move action to move any actual distance on your turn.
You can't take a 5 foot step if you are in difficult terrain. You can use a move action to move 5 feet in difficult terrain but it provokes an attack of opportunity.
Basically as long as you don't use an action to move your miniature to any other square you can move your miniature to any unoccupied adjacent square.
I read it to believe that any actual movement prevents a 5-foot step, including a second Move Action, but not just one. And again, I would like to know the intent of the designer/developer. With the simplifying of other mechanics (i.e. Channeling Energy, Combat Maneuvers, etc.), I would figure this would have been made easier to intuit as well.
Something along the lines of " A Move Action takes the place of any movement in a round." This would mean, by what is defined by the 5-foot step rule, that a Move Action would prevent it beyond a first Move Action. It is VERY clear under Drawing a Weapon, for example, that the "draw a weapon as part of a movement ONLY applies to WEAPONS, since it goes on to exclude potions and the like.
Now my headache is back...
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I think you are confusing actions. As written the rules have Standard, move, free, swift, and "no" actions (I might have missed some.)
In a round it is possible to to many more things than just three actions.
I could:
5ft step --no action--it is movement but is considered a "no" action
Pull out a wand -- move action (a better name would be "move equivalent" action)
Tell my party to watch out for the invisible goblin -- free action
Cast a quickened spell --swift action
Use the wandl -- Standard action
If my DM let me I could do a few other things as free actions.
Move action is misleadingly named as you can do many more things with that action than just move. Taking a 5ft step is NOT a move action. This is how the rules have been since 3rd edition and Pathfinder uses the same rules. It is not complicated--you seem to be making it complicated .
An alternative turn could be me doing this:
5ft step --no action--it is movement but is considered a "no" action
Make a perception check -- move action (a better name would be "move equivalent" action)
Tell my party to watch out for the invisible goblin -- free action
Cast a quickened spell --swift action
Pull out a wand of "see invisible"-- Standard action (Pulling out a wand is a "move equivalent" action but I can do it during a standard action.)
If my DM let me I could do a few other things as free actions.
This was something that was a bit clearer in 3.0. Then, a Move Action meant you moved your speed. Things like drawing were called "Move-Equivalent Actions" because you didn't actually move.
If you make any kind of movement at all (i.e. you changed the hex or square you were in), regardless of the type of action said move required, you cannot take a 5-foot step that turn. So if you make a Partial Charge (Standard Action) no 5-foot step for you. If you cast a Quickened Teleport (Swift Action) you still moved, so no 5-foot step. Similarly, if you take a 5-foot step, you can't make any further movement that turn. You're grounded in that square.
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{quote=Karkon]Taking a 5ft step is NOT a move action. This is how the rules have been since 3rd edition and Pathfinder uses the same rules. It is not complicated--you seem to be making it complicated.[/QUOTE}
It is NOT a move action that can ONLY be taken if you do not use movement (i.e. a Move Action). Thus the need for clarification. No where in your example did you try to use a 5-foot step AND movement. If you substitute a "30 foot Move" in place of your "5-foot step" in either of your examples. You would not be able to ADD a 5-foot step as a "not move action."
This was something that was a bit clearer in 3.0. Then, a Move Action meant you moved your speed. Things like drawing were called "Move-Equivalent Actions" because you didn't actually move.
If you make any kind of movement at all (i.e. you changed the hex or square you were in), regardless of the type of action said move required, you cannot take a 5-foot step that turn. So if you make a Partial Charge (Standard Action) no 5-foot step for you. If you cast a Quickened Teleport (Swift Action) you still moved, so no 5-foot step. Similarly, if you take a 5-foot step, you can't make any further movement that turn. You're grounded in that square.
THIS may be why I have my confusion, the various incarnations of this rule through the editions. I agree, the original 3.0 rule was more concise and easier by far to arbitrate as a GM.
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When wondering if you are able to take a 5' step think to yourself...
Have I move any distance from the square I started my turn in?
If you HAVE...You cannot take the 5'step.
Otherwise you may take it.
Seriously it is not hard.
Move any distance , no 5' step allowed. Otherwise, Giddy Up Cowboy.
I find it hard to believe that this thread has been raised twice and still people have confusion about it.
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It is NOT a move action that can ONLY be taken if you do not use movement (i.e. a Move Action). Thus the need for clarification. No where in your example did you try to use a 5-foot step AND movement. If you substitute a "30 foot Move" in place of your "5-foot step" in either of your examples. You would not be able to ADD a 5-foot step as a "not move action."
Exactly. That is exactly the point; you cannot do a 5ft step and other movement in the same round. I do not see why it needs clarification. You understand the rules as written and intended.
If i move my speed I cannot perform a 5ft step and vice versa.
I can:
Move my speed -- move action
Tell my party to watch out for the goblin behind them -- free action
Cast a quickened spell --swift action
Cast a regular spell -- Standard action
or
5ft step --no action--it is movement but is considered a "no" action
Pull out a wand -- move action (a better name would be "move equivalent" action)
Tell my party to watch out for the invisible goblin -- free action
Cast a quickened spell --swift action
Use the wand -- Standard action
I cannot
5ft step --no action--it is movement but is considered a "no" action
Pull out a wand -- move action (a better name would be "move equivalent" action)
Tell my party to watch out for the invisible goblin -- free action
Cast a quickened spell --swift action
Move my speed -- (having done a 5ft step this is not allowed)
Use the wand -- Standard action
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Then why even bother calling them "Move Actions"? Even refering to them as a "Move Equivalent" action means, by definition, they take the place of a Movement, which prevents a 5-foot step. Why not "Other Actions" or something equally as vague. by calling them "Move Actions", the confusion is easy to create, especially for a new player. I am an experienced GM, but I have NEVER tried to have an opponent creature try to take a Standard Action, a "Move Action" AND a 5-foot step. I thank all of you for YOUR interpretation (since none of you are the designer/developer, I was specifically asking for clarification from); my players in the future might not thank you as much.
I am guessing, much like most times I post on these forums, I will probably not get a direct answer to this from a Paizo employee.
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Then why even bother calling them "Move Actions"? Even refering to them as a "Move Equivalent" action means, by definition, they take the place of a Movement, which prevents a 5-foot step. Why not "Other Actions" or something equally as vague. by calling them "Move Actions", the confusion is easy to create, especially for a new player. I am an experienced GM, but I have NEVER tried to have an opponent creature try to take a Standard Action, a "Move Action" AND a 5-foot step. I thank all of you for YOUR interpretation (since none of you are the designer/developer, I was specifically asking for clarification from); my players in the future might not thank you as much.It is not our interpretation. It is clearly stated in the rule several times. Page 186 starts the section on Move Actions and almost the first thing it says is
The simplest move action is moving your speed. If you take this kind of move action during your turn, you can't also take a 5-foot step.
It then goes in to details about the other things you can do as a move action.
If you as a GM have never done 5-foot step, standard, move (that is not actual movement) then you have lost some quality tactical options for your opponents. I am sorry that the name "move action' confuses you but it is fairly easy to understand.
I made a comment to my GM the other night that things may have been a little clearer right from the get-go if they had called them Major & Minor actions instead of Standard & Move. No mechanical changes whatsoever, but all of a sudden it becomes more clear that taking a Move Action doesn't necessarily mean you Move.
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Then why even bother calling them "Move Actions"? Even refering to them as a "Move Equivalent" action means, by definition, they take the place of a Movement, which prevents a 5-foot step. Why not "Other Actions" or something equally as vague. by calling them "Move Actions", the confusion is easy to create, especially for a new player. I am an experienced GM, but I have NEVER tried to have an opponent creature try to take a Standard Action, a "Move Action" AND a 5-foot step. I thank all of you for YOUR interpretation (since none of you are the designer/developer, I was specifically asking for clarification from); my players in the future might not thank you as much.
I am guessing, much like most times I post on these forums, I will probably not get a direct answer to this from a Paizo employee.
Are you serious? Lol....
The reason they do not answer is becasue there is no reason to answer this. it is pretty clear and easy to understand.
If not having the distinction summed up with the term Move Equivalent is what throws you (and you players) off you probable have more issues with the game that can be answered on these boards anyway.
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]Are you serious? Lol....
The reason they do not answer is becasue there is no reason to answer this. it is pretty clear and easy to understand.
If not having the distinction summed up with the term Move Equivalent is what throws you (and you players) off you probable have more issues with the game that can be answered on these boards anyway.
Thanks for the snark, OilHorse (and the rest as well). This just helps add to my jadedness for PF and the Paizo boards. If anyone can be helpful and find a FAQ link to a previous clarification, THAT would be helpful. My "search-fu" lead me to this thread here... which has STILL to get an answer from a designer/developer. Somehow I am not surprised by that, just disappointed. It was the one thing (perhaps the ONLY thing) the WotC did right.
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Thanks for the snark, OilHorse (and the rest as well). This just helps add to my jadedness for PF and the Paizo boards. If anyone can be helpful and find a FAQ link to a previous clarification, THAT would be helpful. My "search-fu" lead me to this thread here... which has STILL to get an answer from a designer/developer. Somehow I am not surprised by that, just disappointed. It was the one thing (perhaps the ONLY thing) the WotC did right.]Are you serious? Lol....
The reason they do not answer is becasue there is no reason to answer this. it is pretty clear and easy to understand.
If not having the distinction summed up with the term Move Equivalent is what throws you (and you players) off you probable have more issues with the game that can be answered on these boards anyway.
Dude. People came in clarified what you wanted clarified and still you were ungrateful becasue someone in the company did not stop to hold your hand in this. They do not drop in to clear up things that really are not muddled.
WotC did it right? The developers NEVER, EVER, EVER answer to the posts on their boards. Even when they hired a "Community Liason" he disappeared as quick as he arrived. All those boards have are teh VCLs which are only people like you and me except they have a respected presence and are given a vaulted status by WotC. They are volunteers and have exceptionally minor powers but they are not employees.
Now go around and see which members of the Paizo company post here of their own free will and take the time to correct and discuss many aspects of the game.
Just because they have not jumped to your request does not mean you are unimportant to them. I am sure that they may have even seen this thread (since it is on its third go at life) but see that it has been answered appropriately. this may not meet your excruciatingly high standards, but that is not their problem. The same answer has been given numerous times over. Take it for what you will and don't hate on anyone if you don't like the answer for some minor nitpick about Move vs Move Equivalent titles.
From the developers' mouths ;)
An action's type essentially tells you how long the action takes to perform (within the framework of the 6-second combat round) and how movement is treated.
There are six types of actions:
1.Standard
2.Move
3.Full-round
4.Swift
5.Immediate
6.Free
In a normal round, you can perform a standard action and a move action, or you can perform a full-round action. You can also perform one swift action and one or more free actions. You can always take a move action in place of a standard action....
A move action allows you to move up to your speed or perform an action that takes a similar amount of time. See Table: Actions in Combat for other move actions.
You can take a move action in place of a standard action. If you move no actual distance in a round (commonly because you have swapped your move action for one or more equivalent actions), you can take one 5-foot step either before, during, or after the action.
...
A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round. The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action. You can also perform free actions and swift actions (see below). See Table: Actions in Combat for a list of full-round actions.
Some full-round actions do not allow you to take a 5-foot step.
...
The simplest move action is moving your speed. If you take this kind of move action during your turn, you can't also take a 5-foot step.
...
Miscellaneous Actions
The following actions take a variable amount of time to accomplish or otherwise work differently than other actions.Take 5-Foot Step
You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.
You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can't take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.
You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Does this mean I can make a 5 foot step to a door, use a Move Action to open it, and run like hell on the other for side for the my full (For example: 30 feet) movement?
How did you get that from this thread?
No, you can't do that.
Simply put, you can't take a 5 ft step in the same round that you take a move action to physically move yourself from one place to another with muscles.
If anyone can be helpful and find a FAQ link to a previous clarification, THAT would be helpful.
You are not going to find this. At least, not since 1999 to 2000 when 3.0 was released. You might go by wizards.com and look at the 3.0 FAQ and get lucky.
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From the developers' mouths ;)
...An action's type essentially tells you how long the action takes to perform (within the framework of the 6-second combat round) and how movement is treated.
There are six types of actions:
1.Standard
2.Move
3.Full-round
4.Swift
5.Immediate
6.Free
In a normal round, you can perform a standard action and a move action, or you can perform a full-round action. You can also perform one swift action and one or more free actions. You can always take a move action in place of a standard action....
A move action allows you to move up to your speed or perform an action that takes a similar amount of time. See Table: Actions in Combat for other move actions.
You can take a move action in place of a standard action. If you move no actual distance in a round (commonly because you have swapped your move action for one or more equivalent actions), you can take one 5-foot step either before, during, or after the action.
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A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round. The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action. You can also perform free actions and swift actions (see below). See Table: Actions in Combat for a list of full-round actions.
Some full-round actions do not allow you to take a 5-foot step.
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The simplest move action is moving your speed. If you take this kind of move action during your turn, you can't also take a 5-foot step.
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Miscellaneous Actions
The following actions take a variable amount of time to accomplish or otherwise work differently than other actions.Take 5-Foot Step
You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in
Much thanks! This is made very clear, due to the D20PFSRD and Joana! This will definitely change tactics I use as both a GM and a player. Much TPKs to come! I appreciate the helpful manner given and the proper attribution to an official source! Once again, I thank you Joana... my players may not!
Arnim, those are just direct quotes of the rulebook itself! Why couldn´t you read that yourself?, the basics of the ´action economy´, or how all these action types plug together for each round, is directly given with those exact words AT THE VERY BEGINNING of the ´Action in Combat´ section, next to the table which you yourself mention.
d20pfsrd ISN´T an official source, they just reproduce PRD material, and occasionally add in their own commentary, or FAQ material from Paizo (which isn´t the case here because there is no Paizo FAQ on the subject).
I really don´t see how you are complaining when people tell you directly ´you can´t take a 5´ step with any other movement´ after explaining the difference between ´movement´ and a ´move action´ (ONE variant of which may accomplish movement), and then you come back with ´isn´t it overpowered to 5´ step and then move thru a doorway up to my movement?´, i.e. clearly disallowed by the RAW and their advice. Who would not think you are just incurably dense from that interaction?
yes, the name of the move action category is silly, but it´s kind of like calling every portable tape player a ´walkman´ after the most common one... having some ´generic´ phrase like ´sub-standard action´ doesn´t really add anything to the game for people who can understand that not every move action accomplishes movement - which is pointed out in several ways in the description of the move action category itself.
I really don´t appreciate your ungrateful panning of all those spent good time trying to explain to you what the rules themselves lay out quite clearly, only to be passed off as ´snark´. I know I directly tried to avoid sounding snarky even though I thought this was the most amazingly stupid question I´ve ever seen, since the Move Action descripton itself lays it out so clearly... and further, I´ve NEVER seen anybody have any confusion over this, NEVER. You wierdly seem fixated on only ´official´ clarification being able to help you, seemingly satisfied when you believed that to be the case, even though pfsrd ISN´T official, and the above quote is what the core rules themselves state.
pfsrd ISN´T official, and the above quote is what the core rules themselves state.
...and hence as "official" as you can get. You noticed my ;)? (I'd have gotten it from the PRD, which is official, if it let me copy & paste.)
Yes, it's just excerpts from the core rulebook having to do with movement and the 5-foot-step, but if seeing it all pulled away from the surrounding text and compiled clarified the rule for him, what's the problem? I'm sure, from his perspective, everyone trying to explain it in their own words looked like people trying to describe their own interpretations of the rule rather than the rule itself.
pfsrd ISN´T official, and the above quote is what the core rules themselves state.
...and hence as "official" as you can get. You noticed my ;)? (I'd have gotten it from the PRD, which is official, if it let me copy & paste.)
Yes, it's just excerpts from the core rulebook having to do with movement and the 5-foot-step, but if seeing it all pulled away from the surrounding text and compiled clarified the rule for him, what's the problem? I'm sure, from his perspective, everyone trying to explain it in their own words looked like people trying to describe their own interpretations of the rule rather than the rule itself.
We also quoted the rulebook and he ignored that too. Some people just need things explained to them differently than others. I had gotten frustrated to be honest, and I had to step away from the keyboard.