Here is what I would go with as what you are describing.
2 FTR/8 bard/10 EK
2 fighter bonus feats(weapon focus: elven curved blade, power attack)
3 EK bonus feats(weapon specialization:elven curved blade, Greater weapon focus: elven curved blade, greater weapon spec: elven curved blade)
1 toughness
3 arcane strike
5 blind fight
7 Combat Casting
9 improved initiative
11 improved critical: elven curved blade
13 critical focus
15 sickening critical
17 tiring critical
19 exhausting critical
Obviously lots of these feats aren't needed for the build. You will end up with 18 BAB and level 17 bard spells Dirge of Doom, sickening critical, and crushing despair will give -6 to enemy attack/saves, essentially raising the DC of yours and party spells by 6. You damage will be close to the fighters though you lose weapon training, and you can cast in light armor and use quickened spells, probably through a Rod.
Good spells include summons for versatility and flank partners as well as access to spells you don't have without UMD, mirror image/blur/displacement, probably a wand of shield. The ability to use one turn to swift action haste, standard action good hope, and move action inspire courage or dirge of doom allows you to mass buff faster and better than most other characters. If you play it let me know how it turns out. Bards also have the nice perk of lots of things to do in RP situations, alter self, tongues, and some divination spells make you a nice combination of spellcaster, damage dealer & skillmonkey.
Ahh board ate my post, maybe it will come back, here's the cliffnotes. Here is my suggestion for an EK elven curved blade wielder
2FTR/8bard/10 EK
nets you greater weapon focus/spec, you can take sickening critical, dirge of doom, and crushing despair to debuff
you can swift action(with rod of quicken and glove of storing) haste, move action inspire courage/dirge of doom, standard action good hope and in one round buff your whole group substantially.
Alternatively you could swift action dirge of doom, standard action slow/confusion, etc, and move action drop dirge of doom and start up inspire courage for your group.
tongues/alter self/divinations make you a great character to have around outside of battle as well.
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I see what you guys are saying and I understand where your coming from, I guess what I would really like to see is this "type" of character be made a base class, it would have a progression that makes more sense too. but i wont hold my breath as im sure with the 6 new classes we wont be seeing anymore anytime soon.
idk...
I think the idea is that "more depth" and "something more interesting" was built into the core classes, and that you don't necessarily need a prestige class to get you or your character to feel special.
Which is not an excuse not to update Prestige Classes to usability.
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Dammit, I'm a Street Fighter person, I'm new to this Mortal Kombat thing ! Let me guess, the previos 16 rounds were like this:
A: Duskblades are broken because they can wear armor and cast spells at once ! The horror !
B: Nah, Duskblades get no save-or-fail spells so it's all right, they're like Fighters with cantrips.
It was a very broken melee arcanist that could wear medium armor from 3.5.Duskblade ? Broken ? At which point ?
You have to include the poster's name so they know they are being called out. :)
It was a very broken melee arcanist that could wear medium armor from 3.5.Duskblade ? Broken ? At which point ?
The Duskblade character I allowed one of my players to play in my 3.5 game was fully capable of at level 15 all by himself taking down low epic creatures in one combat round.
(Not that I put the group against epic creatures, but his damage output and to-hits were more than sufficient)
I find that a half elf paladin/sorcerer/eldtritch knight to be unbelievably awesome. There is a butt ton of synergy there and so much stuff ends up running off just one ability score: Charisma!
EDIT: ACK! I meant to hit EDIT, not REPLY!
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ROUND 1 - BASELESS CLAIMS!The Duskblade character I allowed one of my players to play in my 3.5 game was fully capable of at level 15 all by himself taking down low epic creatures in one combat round.
(Not that I put the group against epic creatures, but his damage output and to-hits were more than sufficient)
FIGHT!
ROUND 1 - BASELESS CLAIMS!The Duskblade character I allowed one of my players to play in my 3.5 game was fully capable of at level 15 all by himself taking down low epic creatures in one combat round.
(Not that I put the group against epic creatures, but his damage output and to-hits were more than sufficient)
Excuse me?
There goes the theory that people on these boards are polite.
Pfft. It's no different than any other forum.
There was -nothing- "baseless" about my post, MiB... despite what you may think. It happened in a game I freaking ran. Duskblades are in my opinion broken. I feel that way because of personal experience. I am entitled to feel that way. If you feel that I'm not, well... that's on you.
Dork Lord:
Helpful tip for reading forums
You know, you could have made that much more reasonable and polite post instead of the one you originally made... that was my point.
You want specific stats, feats, equipment and spells? I can do that, but I'd have to get ahold of that character's sheet (it wasn't my character).
Dork Lord:
Helpful tip for reading forums
I hate to break it to you, but that isn't always true.
MiB caught me offguard with what I consider a rude post. He politely made himself more clear, which I appreciate. It's done and over with now. I've moved on.
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So, about them Eldritch knights!
I've thought of going the Paladin / Sorceror route, but the delay in getting spell levels was always enough to turn me back.
Paladins have been quite buffed, however - it probably could bear to receive another look. The thought of a self healing, smiting arcane casting fighter is...pretty darn awesome.
I always end up going the wizard / fighter route. I usually end up with a dextrous fighter. My stats are generally Dex > Str > Int > Con >> Wis, Cha...though that changes depending on concept / rolls / other unknown circumstances. Int only need to be high enough to cast the level of spells I will end up at. I generally cast buffs and utility spells, not attacks.
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I don't see the problem with the term "gish." It originally refered to a fighter/mage githyanki, but what about the other terms used to describe the calsses? Priests are clerics, and Magic Users are any casters. Holy Knight is a term used to describe paladins(and sometimes clerics).
Gish = melee arcanist
I'm okay with that.
Paladins have been quite buffed, however - it probably could bear to receive another look. The thought of a self healing, smiting arcane casting fighter is...pretty darn awesome.They've been buffed, but dipping paladin is nerfed to hell and gone. One smite of +2 damage? Wooo.
It's not the damage bonus ... it's the "evildar" + "massive non-dispellable deflection bonus to armor class" + "massive stacks-with-everything attack bonus" + "stacks-with-everything-CHA-bonus-on-all-saving-throws" that matters. Plus being able to self heal, stack on arcane strike with the +2 or +4 from smite evil and use magic items derived from the Paladin's spell list at level 1 onwards ... yeah, pretty formidable combation with (ultimately) 8 sorceror levels - especially arcane, celestial or destined - thence 10 EK levels that makes the combination formidable.
It's not the damage bonus ... it's the "evildar" + "massive non-dispellable deflection bonus to armor class" + "massive stacks-with-everything attack bonus" + "stacks-with-everything-CHA-bonus-on-all-saving-throws" that matters. Plus being able to self heal, stack on arcane strike with the +2 or +4 from smite evil and use magic items derived from the Paladin's spell list at level 1 onwards ... yeah, pretty formidable combation with (ultimately) 8 sorceror levels - especially arcane, celestial or destined - thence 10 EK levels that makes the combination formidable.Paladins have been quite buffed, however - it probably could bear to receive another look. The thought of a self healing, smiting arcane casting fighter is...pretty darn awesome.They've been buffed, but dipping paladin is nerfed to hell and gone. One smite of +2 damage? Wooo.
From level 1 I played a human paladin 4/sorcerer 5/abjurant champion 5/eldritch knight 9. He rocked the campaign world at all levels of play. Though some of those options may not be available in Pathfinder games, I still hold a lot of faith that the basic paladin/sorcerer/EK combo is a potent one for precisely the reasons you mentioned. If you are interested in seeing how I made it work, here's the character sheet (for D&D v3.5) available as a PDF download from MediaFire.
The white bunny rabbit familiar makes it!
Love the illustration on page 2.
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As for duskblades- they work really well, but weren't broken. They did outdamage 3.5 fighters but i doubt the PF fighter would struggle. The key is not to use PF as an excuse to 'update' 3.5 non-core base classes. Use Duskblade, beguiler, warmage, dragon shaman etc. as is.
With the changes of course. Spot&Listen=Perception, full BAB=d10(d12 for Barbarian), etc.
My 2 cents:
First up, Eldritch Knights do have a few hidden "buffs". Firstly, BAB now means more than to-hit. Power-attack (or combat expertise, if you prefer) both run off it. Also, it gives you access to BAB-reliant feats, some of which are pretty nice, although since you lack the fighter's plethora of feats, you will need to choose wisely-the fighter will use his feats to get many shticks. You will probably choose 1 and stick with it.
Issues with options:
1. At the moment it seems that with regards to armour, the best routes are going to be either Bracers of Armour or enchanted light armour coupled with Arcane Armour Training/Mastery.
2. With regards to melee capability, the overwhelming issues are to-hit and damage.
3. The combat feats that were designed to make this even vaguely viable do not gel well with the EK's capstone ability.
Let's tackle the issue of Arcane strike or Arcane Armour Training/Mastery first. The choice between the two is ostensibly between offence and defence.
Arcane strike is nice for the extra damage, for sure. With the magical knack trait and a warrior2/caster8/EK10 build with an item for +1 caster level, you can secure the full benefit from it. The drawback, however, is that you will always have to choose between making either this feat or spell critical redundant (except perhaps when dungeon crawling, when you want to save on spells, but that is a poor use for a feat imo).
Arcane armour appears to have the same problem, with one important difference: you only use it when you want to cast a spell. Thus if you decide to swing your sword and get a critical hit, however, at least you still have the option of using still spell, and at +1 spell level for a quicken, it's still a decent ability. The only time it becomes completely redundant is when you decide to cast 2 spells at once (quickened and normal), in which case you will need to use still spell for both, but then you needed to do that anyway for casting in armour. Thus arcane armour training is not so much incompatible with critical strike as that it serves a much smaller function than first appears.
Which brings us to the last issue of whether to use Bracers of Armour or regular armour. Bracers of Armour aren't cheap. For argument sake we will assume a +5 mithril breastplate. Using arcane armour training, you will be looking at a +11 to AC, opposed to the +8 cap on bracers of armour. +3 AC is nothing to sneeze at. However, consider also how you intend to boost your combat potential. Amongst the options available to you are the various polymorph spells, which are good ways to boost your stats/natural armour and gain some nice bonuses and combat options. However, unless you're using giant form, your armour becomes well and truly redundant. In contrast, your bracers of armour will continue to protect you whilst you're using elemental form IV or Dragon form II, and coupled with the increased natural armour from those spells will probably net you a higher buffed AC.
The upshot of all this of course is that if bracers of armour are the better choice, then even arcane armour training becomes an inferior choice of a feat. Rather, I would recommend that you pick skill focus:spellcraft and craft wondrous item to make sure that you CAN get your +8 bracers of armour, and more cheaply at that. Also, you will be able to craft your own cloak of resistance (I prefer making it a shirt/vest), wings of flying, boots of haste (for those tight battles where you want to use that action to cast yet another buff) and so on.
I see what you guys are saying and I understand where your coming from, I guess what I would really like to see is this "type" of character be made a base class, it would have a progression that makes more sense too. but i wont hold my breath as im sure with the 6 new classes we wont be seeing anymore anytime soon.
idk...
There really has, have a good long look at the oracle, specifically the battle oracle...
OracleFighter armour and weapons, full spontaneous casting, access to fighter feats, great use of combat manuevers, movement as an immediate action (!!!), swift action healing, casting in heavy armour, eventually able to move and full attack in the same round (huge).
It isn't an arcane fighter/mage, but it certainly is the best spellcaster/fighter.
Grab yourself a greatsword, power attack, and go to town.
Am enjoying playing my Paladin (Undead Scourge) 2 / Sorcerer (Arcane Bloodline) 1 who only uses touch attacks, no other weapons.
I think fighter 1/AD Bard 10/EK 9 would work well with Magical Knack Trait. Sure you don't get spell critical but no big loss really. I think relying on critical to cast a spell the odd time isn't worth giving up +5 to damage from Arcane strike on every attack.
What do get is 4 bonus Combat feats and 4 free feats (Arcane Strike, Combat Casting, Disruptive, and Spell breaker). So that works out to almost as many feats as full fighter. You'll have +18 BAB in the end. You can wear Mitheral Full Plate and cast spells. You get the Arcane bond for you weapon like wizard and can use the hand holding the weapon for somatic components. You get Blade thirst performance to enhance you weapon or you can use inspire courage depending on the situation.
Of course this all relies on using the APG, the class variant is on PRD of this site now so if you don't have the book you can look it up there under advanced core classes.
I don't know how much my experiences will help the OP, but here's how my experience has gone so far playing a character that's geared toward Eldritch Knight. I'd appreciate any feedback from folks here on how to move forward with this build, as well.
Our game started at level 7 and we're currently level 11. I began play as a Witch 5/Fighter 1/EK 1. My party consists of a battle- and healing- oriented aasimar cleric, and two tanks - a half-orc barbarian and a dwarf fighter. They are all single-classed.
I took Witch as my favored class, rightly assuming I'd want more levels in it than in Fighter. The hexes were the most overlooked part of my play style when I began, but they've since become the most useful tools in my arsenal. Most of the time, it's more beneficial to use a hex on an opponent than to try for a spell I've only prepared once and risk blowing a concentration check or an enemy rolling really high on a save. At least I can use the hex again if it doesn't work the first time.
For feats, I've split my attention between being able to stay mobile at all times with Shot on the Run and Spring Attack (good for touch spells as well as melee strikes) and ranged attack abilities (Precise Shot, Rapid Reload - love that light crossbow). The remaining feats slots, I've used on Craft Magic Arms & Armor (I'm the party blacksmith) and Combat Casting.
For hexes, I've selected flight (an invaluable asset), evil eye, misfortune, and healing. Healing adds a bit to my utility role because we don't have to lean on the cleric as much for minor healing after a scuffle. Plus, having the misfortune hex and ill omen spells at your fingertips at all times means being able to royally sour a melee hitter's day.
For magic, I've focused on utility spells and non-damaging single target spells (charm monster, baleful polymorph, bestow curse), but I have taken the few evocations the witch has to offer, simply because I'm the only caster - and also because if the rest of my party dies (which has happened at least twice), I have an ace up my sleeve with a lightning bolt or an ice storm. I most commonly cast pox pustules or ill omen in conjunction with my misfortune and evil eye hexes. I also carry wands of mage armor and magic missile (each at CL 5) as combat fallbacks as well as to prevent burning level 1 spell slots on the AC buff.
My weapon choices are light crossbow and rapier, and I've just invested time and money in making my own signature weapon (a +3 wounding adamantine rapier of evil outsider bane - we fight lots of demons), which I get to try out tonight. I had already built a +3 seeking light crossbow, and I keep cold iron, silver, and +1 holy bolts on hand at all times. My AC is a 23 (+1 armor from magic bracers, +4 from a lion's shield, +5 Dex, +2 deflection from ring of protection) and jumps to 26 with mage armor.
When I level up in about two sessions, I have some hard decisions to make. Currently, I am Witch 9/Ftr 1/EK 1. If I take one more level in Witch, I gain access to major hexes, and some of them rock - plus I can keep getting them even as an EK if I take Extra Hex as a feat. I'm greatly interested in the potential of waxen image, and retribution would be nice to lay down on our tanks.
But if I go for the major hexes by taking another Witch level, I can only potentially take nine levels of Eldritch Knight, which means no spell critical at level 20. Since my melee weapon choice is rapier, that may not be the smartest decision. And if I'm not spending feats on new hexes, I can use them to get Weapon Finesse and Improved Critical - which just trends even more heavily toward the EK end of the spectrum.
Thoughts?
If you want a melee/caster hybrid, why not try the Magus?
Also, you could try out the draconic bloodline for the sorcerer and the dragon disciple prestige class, the prestige class helps with a lot of issues that lets you try blending both disciplines together, the only downside is that you lose 2 sorcerer spell casting levels, but in my opinion, it makes up for all the goodies you get!