Go for the eyes Boo, The eyes!!!
Now to business, I have never played Icewind Dale so I would say that one.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012
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I enjoyed Baldur's Gate 2 tremendously, especially with the add-on. It has a much better story than the first Baldur's Gate, and a lot of the quirks from the first game got worked out. Baldur's Gate 2 is one of a handful of games I've played multiple times. In fact, this thread is making me want to play it again.
I didn't like Icewind Dale nearly as much. The game was very linear (not that BG2 wasn't linear, but I at least felt like I could travel around to places I've visited before) and not very rewarding. But, that's just me.
I've played both. Go with Baldur's Gate. Start with the 1st game, go to BG2, then add Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal. Have fun for months on end. Nothing is quite as good as having Aerie, Jaheira, and Viconia all in the party at the same time fighting all the time. Or Minsc's always-amusing commentary.
Icewind Dale's good, but it's not nearly as good because of the interactions (or lack thereof). But the ability to customize a party to taste can be nice sometimes, and gameplay's still good.
Baldur's Gate II. Actually, if you can, play Baldur's Gate 1 and work your way up.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Icewind Dale is an ok game. BG2 is probably one of the best games ever made. If you haven't beat it (Shadows of Amn) you are missing out on the end of a great story. The two main villains are extremely well crafted characters and beating the game is worth it if only to find out their backstories.
Throne of Bhaal has great moments too (though I think the base game is better), the angel that guides you has some great character development scenes and the imp butler is hilarious [I don't think those are spoilers].
Simply put, there is a reason BG2 is listed as one of the greatest games of all time.
Butt kicking for goodness! Baldur's Gate series, all the way.
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And BTW, I find it pretty awful that there are no D&D games that have been made in the last several years that I can play alone with a party that I create....
It would be so nice to go back to the days where D&D games came out every couple years or to see someone buy a license to make a Pathfinder line of CRPGs.
It might hurt a little, since you won't be as familiar with the recurring characters that show up. But if you watch the intro movie, they do a decent job recapping what happened in the previous game.
As much fun as Baldur's Gate is, it's only truly satisfying if you have the whole thing: 1-3. Icewind Dale would be more fun if I was in your situation because I could play it as a stand alone AND I could make each character as I wished.
Baldur's Gate 2 is the best option for me. Icewind Dale is a HUGE dungeon crawl adventure - the story is ok, but you don't really have too much to think about it when you are surrounded by waves of creatures every time you make a move (the undead crypts, the ice dome filled with ice salamanders and the ruined tower full of ghosts come in mind). Baldur's Gate 2, on the contrary, has a LOT of role-playing decisions to do - especially when you start the romances with the NPCs of your group (really, having to choose between Aerie, Jaheira and Viconia is ALWAYS a pain, no matter what...) or start to administrate your stronghold (a castle, a Druid groove, a Ranger cabin, a thieves' guild, a Planar Sphere (!), a theatre, a church, or a Paladin order).
Best yet, if you want to try for a different experience, I truly suggest this site full of fan-made and semi-official mods for both BG2 and IWD. ESPECIALLY the Ascension/Redemption Mod, the Tactics Mod, and all the various Romance NPCs mods (including an Imoen romance mod, for those of you who don't mind about more R-rated situations)
BIG SPOILER FOR THOSE WHO NEVER PLAYED BG2
since technically Imoen is your half-sister...
There is also a fully functional mod here for those who have both BG1 and BG2 and want to play BG1 with the engine of BG2 (since technically BG1 lacks A LOT of the goodies of BG2, including the various Class Kits and new races... very hard to play a BG1 character to his fullest only to find out that there are A LOT of very different and interesting new classes and kits in BG2, like the Monk, the Sorcerer, the Barbarian, the Kensai, the Berserker, the Cavalier, the Blade, the Skald, the Jester, the Assassin, the Inquisitor... and many more others)!!!
Just my 2c.
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Another interesting point about Imoen. She was only put into BG1 at the last minute, when playtesters complained that they essentially had to take Montaron along in the early levels, being as he was the only thief you could meet. (Montaron, of course, being psychotic)
So Imoen's dialogue got ripped from another NPC and reassembled. That's why she has no standalone confrontations / interactions with other party members, which makes her relationship to the player seem closer and led to her continuing role in BG2. Hell, even if I'm playing an out and out evil character, I always take Imoen along (and death to anyone who doesn't!)
Either way, pick up the full Baldur's Gate compilation, and play through them all, after downloading some of the stuff from Spellhold Studios, particularly the mod that lets you play BG1 in BG2's engine.
Another interesting point about Imoen. She was only put into BG1 at the last minute, when playtesters complained that they essentially had to take Montaron along in the early levels, being as he was the only thief you could meet. (Montaron, of course, being psychotic)
So Imoen's dialogue got ripped from another NPC and reassembled. That's why she has no standalone confrontations / interactions with other party members, which makes her relationship to the player seem closer and led to her continuing role in BG2. Hell, even if I'm playing an out and out evil character, I always take Imoen along (and death to anyone who doesn't!)
Either way, pick up the full Baldur's Gate compilation, and play through them all, after downloading some of the stuff from Spellhold Studios, particularly the mod that lets you play BG1 in BG2's engine.
Having incredible stats doesn't hurt, either. Imoen is indeed the absolute best NPC in BG1.
Having incredible stats doesn't hurt, either. Imoen is indeed the absolute best NPC in BG1.Another interesting point about Imoen. She was only put into BG1 at the last minute, when playtesters complained that they essentially had to take Montaron along in the early levels, being as he was the only thief you could meet. (Montaron, of course, being psychotic)
So Imoen's dialogue got ripped from another NPC and reassembled. That's why she has no standalone confrontations / interactions with other party members, which makes her relationship to the player seem closer and led to her continuing role in BG2. Hell, even if I'm playing an out and out evil character, I always take Imoen along (and death to anyone who doesn't!)
Either way, pick up the full Baldur's Gate compilation, and play through them all, after downloading some of the stuff from Spellhold Studios, particularly the mod that lets you play BG1 in BG2's engine.
I dont' remember her name, but there was a good BG friend I had who absolutely HATED Imoen, but I think she was one of those people who hated being "saddled" with NPCs as an above poster mentioned. I can still remember her diatribes to this day, ESPECIALLY with stuff related to the above spoiler.
ICEWIND DALE is fun, but it's fairly linear and straightforward. It does have a major plus in that it's much shorter than BG2, and you can get through it in a couple of weeks of dedicated playing. Maybe 20-30 hours tops. I recently replayed it and got about 2/3s through before taking a break to play the new Middle-earth mod for MEDIEVAL II (which is awesome, btw). I'll be getting back to it soon.
BALDUR'S GATE II, by itself (without the expansion or BG1), is well over 200 hours long if you do all of the sidequests. That's not a publisher exaggeration, that's how much content there is in it. It's insanely huge, the biggest non-procedurally generated single-player RPG ever (DAGGERFALL is even bigger but the game has to throw up random quests to manage it).
ICEWIND DALE also has a bonus in that because it goes up to high levels, it introduces many spells and some items that also crop up in BG2. You get to high levels much faster and the hardcore combat is actually good practice for BG2 (where some of the high-level battles involving dragons or beholders are insane).
However, I do have to say that the 'full' BALDUR'S GATE experience is preferable. There is a mod that allows you to load BALDUR'S GATE 1 and its expansion, TALES OF THE SWORD COAST, into the BG2 game engine (important as the BG1 engine is locked at 640 resolution, which is pretty poor, whilst BG2 goes up to pretty high resolutions like 1600, IIRC), and then you can load your BG1/TotSC character into BG2 itself and carry on playing. Also remember to install BG2's expansion, THRONE OF BHAAL, as that ups the level limit as well to something insanely high by 2E standards (Level 45, I think).
Once you have BG1, TALES OF THE SWORD COAST, BG2 and THRONE OF BHAAL combined into one super-game, you have something is truly awesome and will last you a fairly ridiculous amount of time. TALES is fairly optional (although it raises the level limit within BG1, so is useful for that) but THRONE OF BHAAL, which is basically BG3, concludes the main storyline.
I want to replay one of these 2 on the PC. Which one would you choose and why? I never beat either of them but have had them forever and played each one for a bit in the past.
I really want some advice on this.
I beat baldur's gate and BG2. Ok, so I cheated on part 1 :)
I thought I beat part 2, but I can't remember the end.
Oh, you did not ask about that. I would start with BG 2, and then go to IWD.
Did they ever get all those bugs out of pool of radiance?
A patch was released to make the more recent Pool of Radiance playable (but only after it destroyed my old computer). Playable doesn't mean fun, though.
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A patch was released to make the more recent Pool of Radiance playable (but only after it destroyed my old computer). Playable doesn't mean fun, though.
LOL!
I decided to start up with Icewind Dale since it's shorter and while I am playing that I will look around for BG1 and TOTSC and the mod to allow it to be used with BG2's engine...Any links to any of that stuff would be helpful...
All the thoughts and info you guys provided absolutely ROCKS! Thanks to all...
The mod is called Tutu. Check it out here.
Icewind Dale has better graphics, better "toys" (spells, equipment), and much faster levelling--be sure to have an elf, a dwarf, and a bard in your party.
If you like role playing, BGII is the creme de la creme of computer games!
The mod is called Tutu. Check it out here.
Thanks!
A patch was released to make the more recent Pool of Radiance playable (but only after it destroyed my old computer). Playable doesn't mean fun, though.LOL!
I decided to start up with Icewind Dale since it's shorter and while I am playing that I will look around for BG1 and TOTSC and the mod to allow it to be used with BG2's engine...
Any links to any of that stuff would be helpful...
All the thoughts and info you guys provided absolutely ROCKS! Thanks to all...
Fakey, check out e-bay. That is where I go my two copies of the Baldur's Gate set, which is all of the games in one box. I paid around $25 or so for it.
I liked Icewind Dale better than the BG games. Though the story is a lot more linear, I prefer being able to make the whole party. Plus, you get to avoid the computer NPCs bickering with each other - which they do from time to time. I was ready to start killing them myself.
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I liked Icewind Dale better than the BG games. Though the story is a lot more linear, I prefer being able to make the whole party. Plus, you get to avoid the computer NPCs bickering with each other - which they do from time to time. I was ready to start killing them myself.
For the record, you can make your whole party in BG2 as well. :)
I liked Icewind Dale better than the BG games. Though the story is a lot more linear, I prefer being able to make the whole party. Plus, you get to avoid the computer NPCs bickering with each other - which they do from time to time. I was ready to start killing them myself.For the record, you can make your whole party in BG2 as well. :)
Yes, you simply have to play Multiplayer without logging with anybody else, and you can create all the party.
Only the First Character would be the Child of Bhaal (and so, required not to die, etc. etc.)
But most of the fun of BG2 is the interaction with the other NPCs.
I can clearly remember the BEST BANTER EVER when playing the Throne of Bhaal Expansion, and suddenly Aerie and Mazzy (the female Halfling 'Paladin' - actually, Fighter devoted to Arvoreen) started to say:
Aerie: " Oh, Mazzy, I wonder why you cannot become a true Paladin of Arvoreen at all... You are so dedicated, and righteous, and just."
Mazzy: " You see, Aerie dear, we halfling cannot become Paladins for decree of the Gods. Being a Blade of Arvoreen is the closest thing we can become. But I am happy anyway."
Aerie: "Oh, but what about the future? Maybe there would be a time when Halfling could become Paladins, and maybe Clerics and Magic Users too!"
Mazzy: "...yes, dear, and we could have feet without fur and oblong heads... but seriously, Aerie, who knows the ways of the Gods? Maybe there could really be a NEW EDITION OF HALFLINGS IN THE FUTURE..."
(please note that the Expansion was released a few months before the coming of D&D 3.0 ...)
For the record, you can make your whole party in BG2 as well. :)Yes, you simply have to play Multiplayer without logging with anybody else, and you can create all the party.
Only the First Character would be the Child of Bhaal (and so, required not to die, etc. etc.)
I'll have to give that a try. I don't recall every noting that info before, but then I haven't lurked around online much looking for info about BG2.
Thanks.
For the record, you can make your whole party in BG2 as well. :)Yes, you simply have to play Multiplayer without logging with anybody else, and you can create all the party.
Only the First Character would be the Child of Bhaal (and so, required not to die, etc. etc.)
I'll have to give that a try. I don't recall every noting that info before, but then I haven't lurked around online much looking for info about BG2.
Thanks.
Holy crap, I just remembered this.
But didn't issues come up as a result of playing without certain characters in the party? Like flagging(I hope I'm using the right term) issues and stuff? If I'm wrong, correct me.
Making the whole party yourself is possible in both BG1 and 2, but it's a dubious idea. A LOT of side-quests come up through interaction with your NPC companions, and you can earn a lot of EXP through solving inter-party issues. Plus some of the party NPCs are awesome.
I am physically incapable of playing either BG game without adding Minsc (and Boo) to the party.
Making the whole party yourself is possible in both BG1 and 2, but it's a dubious idea. A LOT of side-quests come up through interaction with your NPC companions, and you can earn a lot of EXP through solving inter-party issues. Plus some of the party NPCs are awesome.
I am physically incapable of playing either BG game without adding Minsc (and Boo) to the party.
[Minsc]Go for the Eyes, Boo! The Eyes![/Minsc]
[Minsc]Go for the Eyes, Boo! The Eyes![/Minsc]Making the whole party yourself is possible in both BG1 and 2, but it's a dubious idea. A LOT of side-quests come up through interaction with your NPC companions, and you can earn a lot of EXP through solving inter-party issues. Plus some of the party NPCs are awesome.
I am physically incapable of playing either BG game without adding Minsc (and Boo) to the party.
Thanks for the memory. I needed that.
IWD has better tactical combat. BG2 has a much better story. IWD2 has even better tactical combat and is actually fully 3.0 instead of bastard hybrid AD&D/3.0 like IWD and BG2, but doesn't have any better of a story than IWD.
As for needing to go through BG1 first -- no, not at all, and I do not recommend it. BG1 isn't even a third as good as BG2 is. The plot is dull, the combat is repetitive due to lack of options, and you'll grind your teeth at the low resolution. If you're afraid of being lost in BG2's story without info from BG1, don't be. The only things you need to know are:
That's the sum total of the knowledge of BG1 needed to enjoy BG2 to the fullest. It's an almost perfectly self-contained story. You do get to import your BG1 save into BG2, but there's not much point to that and if you do that, you can't have a kit or be one of the 3.0 hybrid classes (sorcerer or barbarian) because those weren't available in BG1.
Actually, it was BGII that introduced me to D&D period. I bought it because it got such great reviews. And I loved it. I have since then bought practically every Bioware game made. The studio is in Edmonton, a few hours from my home, so it's nice to support the local talent.
Actually, it was BGII that introduced me to D&D period. I bought it because it got such great reviews. And I loved it. I have since then bought practically every Bioware game made. The studio is in Edmonton, a few hours from my home, so it's nice to support the local talent.
Cool! Do you know any of the people who work there?
I am a little surprised to read how many posters loved Imoen so much in both BG1 and BG2. Personally, I hated her with a passion like unto the burning fury of a hundred suns. I would actually kill her off immediately after the introductory chapter in BG1 and loot her body just so I wouldn't ever have to hear
'eya! It's me! Imoen!
over and over again. I was crushed when the plot of BG2 focused on her. I thought she was so irritating.
Imoen is the sole reason why my response to the OP would be to go for Icewind Dale.
I am a little surprised to read how many posters loved Imoen so much in both BG1 and BG2. Personally, I hated her with a passion like unto the burning fury of a hundred suns. I would actually kill her off immediately after the introductory chapter in BG1 and loot her body just so I wouldn't ever have to hear
'eya! It's me! Imoen!
over and over again. I was crushed when the plot of BG2 focused on her. I thought she was so irritating.
Imoen is the sole reason why my response to the OP would be to go for Icewind Dale.
yikes. i've heard similar sentiments directed towards jaheira.
if you don't like certain characters, just don't talk to them. there's no need to kill them. lay off the women, folks! :-)
As for needing to go through BG1 first -- no, not at all, and I do not recommend it. BG1 isn't even a third as good as BG2 is. The plot is dull, the combat is repetitive due to lack of options, and you'll grind your teeth at the low resolution. If you're afraid of being lost in BG2's story without info from BG1, don't be. The only things you need to know are:
That's the sum total of the knowledge of BG1 needed to enjoy BG2 to the fullest. It's an almost perfectly self-contained story. You do get to import your BG1 save into BG2, but there's not much point to that and if you do that, you can't have a kit or be one of the 3.0 hybrid classes (sorcerer or barbarian) because those weren't available in BG1.
Except, as had just been discussed, you CAN now use all of the BG2 spells, kits, hybrid classes, higher resolutions, races, map and journal amendments and all of the other full features of BG2 in BG1+TotSC through the use of the Tutu programme.
Except, as had just been discussed, you CAN now use all of the BG2 spells, kits, hybrid classes, higher resolutions, races, map and journal amendments and all of the other full features of BG2 in BG1+TotSC through the use of the Tutu programme.
Yes, if you want to deal with complex installations, buggy software, a completely unbalanced game (BG1 was NOT designed with the BG2 additions in mind and they make the game trivially easy), all for a bad game that has almost no story relevance. It's very easy to screw up using Tutu, and even if you do everything right it makes BG1 unstable.
BG1 was really quite bad by today's standards. The only reason it succeeded and spawned the awesomeness that is BG2 is because it was released at the perfect time, when everyone thought RPGs were dead, and it had good production values (for its time) -- quality voice acting, the Infinity Engine which is still probably the best 2D engine in existence, etc.
I very strongly recommend pretending that BG1 doesn't exist if you havn't already played it.
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I very strongly recommend pretending that BG1 doesn't exist if you havn't already played it.
I very strongly recommend pretending that the above-quoted text doesn't exist, and that you play BG1.
True, it is an insanely difficult, buggy oft-repetitive, and generally agitating game with lots of dead-ends and plot holes, but I love it. The mods, expansion, and custom downloadable content are a must. Take the extra time and get the full experience. Besides, if you're looking for a good story, why not extend it by a few chapters?
. Personally, I hated her with a passion like unto the burning fury of a hundred suns.
Now I need to find a way to use that quote.
Besides, if you're looking for a good story, why not extend it by a few chapters?
Because playing BG1's story is simplistic to the extreme, generic, predictable, and just plain bad? Why force yourself to slog through a painful opening chapter when it doesn't provide anything you need to make sense of the good chapters?
Cool! Do you know any of the people who work there?
Not personally, but my neighbour has a nephew or cousin or something who is a game designer up there. I forget his name, but if I have the chance, I'd love to shoot the breeze with him some day. The goal of Albertan D&D nerds everywhere is to someday work for Bioware.
Because playing BG1's story is simplistic to the extreme, generic, predictable, and just plain bad? Why force yourself to slog through a painful opening chapter when it doesn't provide anything you need to make sense of the good chapters?Opinions, opinions.
You yourself said the game was bad; "True, it is an insanely difficult, buggy oft-repetitive, and generally agitating game with lots of dead-ends and plot holes"
Why play an "insanely difficult, buggy, repetitive, and agitating game with lots of dead-ends and plot holes" when doing so is completely irrelevant to the ability to enjoy the game that is actually in question (BG2)? I realize you're viewing through the rose-colored glasses called nostalgia, but even you have already admitted that BG1 doesn't have much going for it, and the story of BG1 really is almost completely irrelevant to the story of BG2.
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You yourself said the game was bad; "True, it is an insanely difficult, buggy oft-repetitive, and generally agitating game with lots of dead-ends and plot holes"
Why play an "insanely difficult, buggy, repetitive, and agitating game with lots of dead-ends and plot holes" when doing so is completely irrelevant to the ability to enjoy the game that is actually in question (BG2)?
You forgot "... and I loved it."
There's hardly any nostalgia to it, its a solid campaign, and it was a good enough story to warrant playing through it. And, of course, as I did mention, downloading the extra content (including player-made patches) made for a far better experience\. You might say that it was 'too much effort' to download it all, but that's all a matter of person perspective.
BG1 is a considerably less buggy, less repetitive game with fewer dead-ends and plot-holes then, say, OBLIVION or NEVERWINTER NIGHTS or most modern RPGs for that matter.
BALUR'S GATE 1 is basically THE HOBBIT to BG2's THE LORD OF THE RINGS. I suppose technically you don't NEED to experience it to enjoy the sequel, but it does add a fair bit to the experience, fills in the backstory and introduces you to several NPCs who prove important in BG2.
Plus I enjoy D&D, of whatever stripe, at low-to-mid level (BG1 and TotSC) far more than high (BG2) or epic (ToB), where you have to spend hours working out which spells to have memorised to face a particular challenge, only to suffer a total PK because you forgot to get any fire immunity spells before dealing with a dragon, forcing you to reload and rebuff, which gets a bit tedious after a while.
Important tips for any Infinity Engine game:
Keep your finger hovering above the Q (quicksave) key at all times and remember to save whenever your party is fully alive, breathing and not affected by enemy spells. Dying only to realise you last saved an hour ago when you entered the map is a pain in the ass. Also quicksave before resting, memorising spell books or travelling to the next map.
Load up everyone with missile weapons and give everyone a skill to use them. This makes the game considerably less deadly when you encounter things like ankhegs which can kill you with one hit even at high levels. Mages and clerics make effective missile platforms even when their spells run out. Using Tutu also gives your party the various ammo/gem/potion/scroll-holding cases, which makes the game considerably less tedious.