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Hey all, I've done a small playtest with the alchemist with a friend for a pick up game, and both of us had the same opinions on a few things.
1. Bombs: Why a limit? We both felt this was a very "Warlock" way to take it, which we both liked. But only being able to have X a day is quite annoying, as in a combat heavy day, my friend ran out and had to use more suboptimal attack methods, and he was really enjoying just chucking bombs at things. The bomb tossing was fun, but range became an issue at points, so we were hoping the alchemist could get some bonus to his range with bombs and other items of that sort. Also, provoking on both making a bomb as well as throwing it can really mess up a guy who has to be decently close to throw a bomb well. Maybe a feat to make a bomb quicker, as a swift action, or some kind of protection from getting torn to pieces while doing what he does best.
2. Mutagen: I do have to ask, why not an alchemical bonus? As is in our lv8 playtest, the player never used it, as he was too focused on the bombs, and didn't need to use a standard action to do it, which also caused him to halt on playing it. Having to burn discoveries on it was bad, but I get into that later...
3. Discoveries: I don't like sounding greedy on this, but the amount you get really doesn't give you a chance to do much. I mean, some are really cool (Smoke bomb and it's successive discoveries, eternal potion) and some are lack luster (the majority of elemental bombs, infuse mutagen). There's really not enough of the to really play around with, which makes it hard to really feel like you're specializing in something when you have to wait forever to make your next meaningful addition. I'd like to see some of the current discoveries be added as class features, or at least to increase the speed in which you gain them (One at first level, and then one every three levels)
4. Extracts: Again, just an issue of not being able to down a lot of these while they're still useful, such as in combat. I'd love the ability to combine these into a single extract. I hate to admit it, but I feel like a drunk when I spend my first round downing an infusion, next round downing an extract, and then seeing the fight almost halfway over already.
I'll be giving this class a more thorough playtest this sat as an NPC for a group I'm running, but this quick pickup game taught me a lot about how the class works.
P.S.
Can you please give the alchemist an ability to drink something as swift action? Look at the guy, he knows how to drink something efficiently, he models it into his combat approach!
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I agree with a lot of these suggestions.
As mentioned in another thread, I like the idea of moving some set class features into discoveries and making the discovery progression every even level.
I like the idea of changing a lot of the abilities to an "alchemical" bonus type, which would allow some stacking of buffs.
That might be a little overdone, as allowing stat bonuses to stack can lead to something becoming overpowered, but it's definitely something to consider.
Chugging potions faster does seem like it might be fitting for the class as well.
The class does seem like it should require prep time to set up potions and bomb ahead of time, giving them a slight restriction, but forcing the bomb throwing to always be what is, basically, a full round action is a pain in the ass. It might be good to at least let the Alchemist hold a bomb's magical charge over multiple rounds (and only one bomb at a time) so they're not so restricted.
There is a Trait in the Chelliax book called Accelerated Drinker which could prove useful, my Quandry is to 0-level Extracts ; as in Where are they? Can anyone help?
Jason stated in another thread that that is a misprint - the reference to 0-level discoveries should be deleted. The Alchemist has no 0-levels.
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1)Honestly I'm right now glad that there's a per day limit on bombs, I don't want another warlock class. And having a limit on bombs means that you have to use those other abilities you get.
2) yeah this should be an alchemical bonus. It also needs to be better than +2 to a stat and nat armor for a penalty.
3) there is an awesome suggestion Here That I think is the best way to handle it.
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I agree with you N. Jolly, except for one thing: you said the (majority of) elemental bombs lack luster. At certain levels, only dealing fire damage isn't enough, and without force you'd need a ghost touch weapon to hit anything incorporeal.
Also? Making explosions(Sonic) and things melt(Acidic) is just fun!
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1)Honestly I'm right now glad that there's a per day limit on bombs, I don't want another warlock class. And having a limit on bombs means that you have to use those other abilities you get.
2) yeah this should be an alchemical bonus. It also needs to be better than +2 to a stat and nat armor for a penalty.
3) there is an awesome suggestion Here That I think is the best way to handle it.
2) Especially since it's only a +2 bonus for a possible -4 penalty(until you gain certain discoveries).
It was disappointing to find out you couldn't mix and match elemental bombs.
Needless to say that house rule is going in if my players ever use Alchemist.
I think the improvement to the mutagen stat bonuses should occur through class progression not discoveries. Instead there should be other benefits to mutagen gained through discovery. DR/-, Elemental Resistances (to the various bomb damage types you possess excluding force - synergy), resist/immune to fear/enchantment, and so on.
I agree that the bonuses should be alchemical and I would accept a reduced duration if that were the case. Charisma is a dump stat for alchemists so it's like there is no penalty at all.
One thing that is important to keep in mind when using an NPC alchemist is to use the terrain to your advantage.
1)Honestly I'm right now glad that there's a per day limit on bombs, I don't want another warlock class. And having a limit on bombs means that you have to use those other abilities you get.
...Except that as a 10th level wizard i can easily out damage a alchemist with fire balls (10d10), which hits a wider range. making it at will is the only way to justify the slow progression.
I think that the best way to make mutagens customizable is to make it uses evolutions like an eidolon so that the alchemist can choose a cool form instead of just getting dry stat increases and natural armor bonuses. I also think it should scale with level because if mutagens don't, they are worthless unless you focus on them.
1)Honestly I'm right now glad that there's a per day limit on bombs, I don't want another warlock class. And having a limit on bombs means that you have to use those other abilities you get.
Or you could have the bombs do damage equal to alchemist level.