Thor’s Rules Questions


Rules Questions


1) Is it only the armor check penalty that applies to swim checks, or is there another penalty that is dependant on amount of weight carried like in 3.5? The Core book alludes to the idea that there is another penalty, but I can’t seem to find the actual mechanics anywhere.

2) Looking at the Gelatinous Cube, if your character is engulfed and does not succumb to paralysis it seem that you can escape by making a grapple check against the Cube’s CMD of -1. Is that right? That’s practically an auto escape if you are not paralyzed. That seems too easy.

3) If a monster has a fear aura, like the Bone Devil for example, is that just a first time save or an ongoing thing? So for example he appears and a character next to him fails a save and is frightened, when he regains his courage and is no longer frightened does he have to make another save when he gets in close to the monster, or is this a once a day sort of thing? Also, I assume a character who sees the Bone Devil and then moves in to attack must make a fear save when he comes within 5 ft, correct?

4) If a character is poisoned for several rounds from an injury and fails his Fort save, when in the initiative order does the poison take effect? Does he make his save and take the ability damage on the Monster’s initiative, the Characters initiative, or ‘between rounds’ (you could call it initiative 0).

5) Does the effect of a Witch’s Hex continue to last if the Witch dies?

6) Can the Witch use the Eagle Eye Hex on the same target repeatedly in subsequent rounds of battle? The wording is a little vague and I think that being able to gimp one monster's AC and then Attack and then Saves and then ... Seems a little broken.


1) There's no additional penalty to swim checks besides acp. In 3.5 you doubled the penalty, but not in pf.

2) Yes, you're right. It's easy to escape, but the idea behind the cube is to paralyze (DC 20 is kinda hard to overcome for 1-2 lvl characters). Also note that you get -4 to your CMB checks and gain the pinned condition.

3) I'm not 100% sure, but I'd rule you have to roll again if you come within the fear aura to see if it effects you again.

4) Poison acts on characters initiative, just like everything else involving those characters (summons, pets etc.)

5) & 6) I don't have the rules for the witch


I can chime in on 3, 5 and 6. I don't have the rules for the witch available either right now but can speak on the general mechanics:

3) I'm with Jonne on this as well, unless it says the effect happens every round or that the person making the save becomes immune for a period of time (sometimes things like that were in the description of the ability - make save, is now immune for 24 hours, etc.), I'd say that the characters who made the save are safe for a bit but re-engaging the creature (leaving the area of the aura and coming back in) would be grounds for a new save.

5) This one depends on if the effect has a duration or is based on concentration. IIRC if a spell has an effect for a set duration after being cast it will stay in existence until the duration passes. If the spell is based on the casters concentration, when they are knocked out or dead, the spell stops existing.

6) If each effect has a different name then yes they should be able to stack. If not, and it is the same ability with different effects chosen when cast, no they wouldn't stack. Only the most recently cast version would take effect (or the "biggest" or most power effect if the same effect were cast by two seperate casters). This would fall under the rules for stacking effects basically. From what you are saying in the post I would guess it wouldn't stack as it would be 3 versions of Eagle Eye Hex with differing penalties.


7) To the bonuses to Disable Device gained from Masterwork Thieves Tools and the Vest of Escape stack? My thought is no.


ThorGN wrote:
7) To the bonuses to Disable Device gained from Masterwork Thieves Tools and the Vest of Escape stack? My thought is no.

RAW seems to be 'Yes'.

Masterwork Thieves' Tools provide a +2 Circumstance Bonus
Vest of Escape provides a +4 Competence Bonus.

As these are typed bonuses of a different type, they should stack, unless I'm missing a line somewhere that says 'circumstance' and 'competence' type are the same thing.

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ThorGN wrote:

1) armor check penalty ... swim checks ... amount of weight carried like in 3.5?

2) making a grapple check against the Cube’s CMD of -1.

3) If a monster has a fear aura, like the Bone Devil for example, is that just a first time save or an ongoing thing?

4) when in the initiative order does the poison take effect?

1) In 3.5 it was double, not based on weight. You are thinking of 3.0 rules.

2) You are pinned and paralyzed, how are you making a CMB check?

3) p300 covers all on the effect, so it becomes a DM call. Some fear effects list (in the monster) that they only work once per 24 hours. Bone Devil isn't one of the ones with the 24 hour text.

4) Ask your DM, probably when the save succeeds/fails.


8) Can you use the effects of Vital Strike and Cleave on the same single attack? And if so, does the extra damage from Vital Strike apply to the second cleaving attack?


ThorGN wrote:
8) Can you use the effects of Vital Strike and Cleave on the same single attack? And if so, does the extra damage from Vital Strike apply to the second cleaving attack?

No. Both require a Standard action, u cannot make 2 standard actions as one.


In regards to number 1), there is under Additional Rules, Carrying Capacity, a potentially different modifier.

In short, you compare the weight of your gear against your Str, and arrive at a load (light medium, heavy). Then you use the greater of the two modifiers (armor or load) in each category (move, skill check penalty, max dex bonus). This might, change the modifier for the swim check.

Pathfinder SRD Link search for Carrying Capacity

Number 3) Copied from the SRD

Frightened: Characters who are frightened are shaken, and in addition they flee from the source of their fear as quickly as they can. They can choose the paths of their flight. Other than that stipulation, once they are out of sight (or hearing) of the source of their fear, they can act as they want. If the duration of their fear continues, however, characters can be forced to flee if the source of their fear presents itself again. Characters unable to flee can fight (though they are still shaken).

Pathfinder SRD Link search for Fear for the entire entry.

So the character makes 1 save, when he gets within range of the Bone Devil's fear effect (5ft per the Bone Devil fear Aura description). The player fails his save and is Frightened, the DM rolls a 6 for the duration of the effect. The character leaves, per the fear effect, if he attempts to return before the duration expires, he will flee again, automatically. If he returns after the duration expires he rolls again when he enters the aura's area of effect. Once the player saves, he is immune from the effect for 24 hours (from this Bone Devil, maybe all Bone Devils) -- as I recall, but I could not locate a section in the SRD to link to.

Hope that helps.


ThorGN wrote:


5) Does the effect of a Witch’s Hex continue to last if the Witch dies?

6) Can the Witch use the Eagle Eye Hex on the same target repeatedly in subsequent rounds of battle? The wording is a little vague and I think that being able to gimp one monster's AC and then Attack and then Saves and then ... Seems a little broken.

5) Yes for the duration of the effect, just like anything else.

6) If you are referencing evil eye then yes you can target the same opponent for a different thing each round.

Consider that penalty in light of the Daze, Doom, Bane, Curse, or Prayer spells. Also consider the Dirge of Doom, and intimidate skill. All of these things affect each of those with a save throw. The evil eye only affects one per "casting" with the same save throw. So while it is "unlimited use" it is weaker than the spells in over all effect. Also Daze is a zeroth level spell and as such would also be "unlimited" in casting... but with lower DC.


Thanks for the input guys!

And yes, I did mean Evil Eye.

Lordrichter, I agree with everything you said, except for the immunity for 24 hours thing. Some fear abilities and spells specifically state that once a character saves they are immune to the effects for 24 hours, but some don’t, the Bone Devil’s Aura for example. So I am trying to find the general rule for these type of effects when immunity is not specified. I could always house-rule it, but I was hoping that in such a complete system as Pathfinder it had been dealt with.


ThorGN wrote:

Thanks for the input guys!

And yes, I did mean Evil Eye.

Lordrichter, I agree with everything you said, except for the immunity for 24 hours thing. Some fear abilities and spells specifically state that once a character saves they are immune to the effects for 24 hours, but some don’t, the Bone Devil’s Aura for example. So I am trying to find the general rule for these type of effects when immunity is not specified. I could always house-rule it, but I was hoping that in such a complete system as Pathfinder it had been dealt with.

Generally put if immunity isn't spelled out then it isn't there. So it would be a save every round unless Errata'ed at a later point.

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