Eidolons and reach

[Lumbo]

Forgive me if this has been addressed before.

Does take the size scaling evolutions automatically scale the reach to 10 and 15 ft. for large and huge respectively? Or would one still need to invest in the reach evolutions?

Thanks!

[YuenglingDragon]

To my surprise when I looked at it this very evening chatting with my DM, the size evolutions have nothing in them about reach. Per RAW, you still need to buy the reach evolutions.

[Kolokotroni]

YuenglingDragon wrote:

To my surprise when I looked at it this very evening chatting with my DM, the size evolutions have nothing in them about reach. Per RAW, you still need to buy the reach evolutions.

Indeed its not a guarantee. For instnace there are some large animals without reach. It depends on the creature, and the attacks.

[Pope William T Wodium]

Kolokotroni wrote:

YuenglingDragon wrote:

To my surprise when I looked at it this very evening chatting with my DM, the size evolutions have nothing in them about reach. Per RAW, you still need to buy the reach evolutions.

Indeed its not a guarantee. For instnace there are some large animals without reach. It depends on the creature, and the attacks.

Does it not depend on whether the creature is Large(long) or Large(tall) anymore? I converted directly from 3.0, and recently at that, so I'm not up on some of the details.

[Aestolia]

Kolokotroni wrote:

Indeed its not a guarantee. For instnace there are some large animals without reach. It depends on the creature, and the attacks.

That's one of the 3.0 -> 3.5 changes I questioned, it was easier to know if something had reach Large-long and Large-tall

[YuenglingDragon]

I've been looking for Large Long and Large Tall but can't find it. It may have been the kind of thing my group has assumed exists without rules to back it up.

[Nerioth]

Page 195 of the player's handbook, creature size and scale. It gives tall and long.

[Luthia]

Nerioth wrote:

Page 195 of the player's handbook, creature size and scale. It gives tall and long.

Thanks a lot for that have been searching for it forever. Especially the Reach-table based on size might be relevant, but we of course still need to know if it's included in the Large/Huge Evolutions.

[YuenglingDragon]

Luthia wrote:

Nerioth wrote:

Page 195 of the player's handbook, creature size and scale. It gives tall and long.

Thanks a lot for that have been searching for it forever. Especially the Reach-table based on size might be relevant, but we of course still need to know if it's included in the Large/Huge Evolutions.

It doesn't say that it gets a 10ft reach so I think its fair to assume it does not. Just spend another point on reach.

[FuriousPoop]

YuenglingDragon wrote:

Luthia wrote:

Nerioth wrote:

Page 195 of the player's handbook, creature size and scale. It gives tall and long.

Thanks a lot for that have been searching for it forever. Especially the Reach-table based on size might be relevant, but we of course still need to know if it's included in the Large/Huge Evolutions.

It doesn't say that it gets a 10ft reach so I think its fair to assume it does not. Just spend another point on reach.

Actually if they are large based on page 195 of the players handbook then they would have a natural reach of 10 for size large and 15 for size huge. Unless you are building a snake or a horse.

[Selgard]

The question was asked in one of the "summoner question" threads I think and they specifically declined to answer it so far. (at least unless there was an updated post I missed).

So for the moment, the official answer is pending.. but probably leaning towards no (imo).

-S

[FuriousPoop]

Selgard wrote:

The question was asked in one of the "summoner question" threads I think and they specifically declined to answer it so far. (at least unless there was an updated post I missed).

So for the moment, the official answer is pending.. but probably leaning towards no (imo).

-S

If they do not get reach than an Eidolon that is huge is stuck with a 10 foot reach because you can only take reach once for each weapon.

[Aestolia]

FuriousPoop wrote:

Actually if they are large based on page 195 of the players handbook then they would have a natural reach of 10 for size large and 15 for size huge. Unless you are building a snake or a horse.

Most quardropeds / serpentine creatures would fall under large (long) and giving them Large - 5' and Huge 10' not 10/15

This difference of tall/long is why (I assume) they didn't include reach numbers in the large/huge Evo. nothing is listed as being tall or long.

The enlarge spell spcifically dictates: "A humanoid creature whose size increases to Large.....a natural reach of 10 feet."

Ceteris paribus, precidence shows us that the reach increase is listed with the effects of the size increase. Since it's not listed in the case of the Evo, there's no reason to assume we should get one.

Having said this, as powerful as the size increase evo's are, even without the reach buff, i think it's kind of silly to be able to have a Huge 15/15 foot creature that cant' reach past it's own nose.

[Nerioth]

Actually, think of a t-rex, it can't even reach his nose...he just has those small arms, the poor guy.

[Aestolia]

Nerioth wrote:

Actually, think of a t-rex, it can't even reach his nose...he just has those small arms, the poor guy.

Yes but his bite / tailwhip probably have more than the current maximum of 10' (one reach Evo)