All good. Like the familiar spellbook idea.
It screamed Disney.fairy tale to me. Which is much better then making it the standard evil follower of a dark power
I am utterly in love with this class. I have never seen a class i instantly liked more. It is the pure stuff of fairy tale. The Dark, nasty sort with moral message and twisted logic, where the big bad wolf goes to serial conventions and poems tell us to never eat or break anything in old ladies homes.
Hmm not altogether happy that covens need a Hag to be at their most effective..ie Coven=evil.
Otherwise on a first quick read through it doesn't look too bad at all..
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I am concerned that so many of the offensive hexes (such as slumber, agony, etc.) are classified as Supernatural (Su) abilities rather than Spell-Like (Sp) abilities, since under the rules on p. 221 of the Core Rulebook, supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance, dispel magic, or counterspells.
I'm loving the class. It's a warlock and a hexblade with mystic theurge spellcasting. Yes, yes, oh god yes.
Also, the class is extremely versatile in flavor. You can play a warlock type pact character, a fairy tale witch, or a village healer with a kind heart.
Yes, Binders do.
Although, they lack stuff like (Su) sleep the Witch has.
Ok, looking through the skill section, I was surprised to see a few skills I considered "witchy" to be missing. I realize that witches aren't charisma based, but just on folklore I would have expected at least ONE of the conversation skills in there (bluff, diplomacy, or intimidate). Disguise, handle animal, sense motive, and survival all seemed like great choices but are missing.
I realize that skills are MUCH better this addition, and that you can get respectable scores in these even without class skill bonuses, but still. The witch is going to rival a bard, ranger, or rogue in the amount of skills she'll be investing in (like a wizard).
I like the class. I have a villain planned already. :)
And what about improved familiars, or alternate familiars? I would love a witch with a pseudo-natural quasit (I could bring my plush cthulhu to the game table), but what would it bonus spells be?
I wondered this, too. I really wanted a flame elemental familiar for a witch, and to hide it as a torch.
There's a lot to like and some tweaking that needs to be done.
On the plus side, the familiar=spellbook is really really cool. It adds a whole new dimension to the class, and, most importantly, it's completely unique. Their spell list is really nice, and I'm glad Jason and co decided to give them a unique spell list (it was very necessary, IMO).
On the downside, Intelligence feels like a wholly inappropriate stat for a class that's about bargaining and communing. I'd like a few less hexes and hexes that are a bit stronger, but that may just be me. And the familiar feels like a major liability. Your familiar's a lot more likely to die than your spellbook, and the imbue power is unbelievably weak and too late into the class. It needs a better imbue, potentially 3/4 of your hp, and the ability to deliver your touch attack hexes. Also, the class needs 4 skill points. And, the retarded healing progression is annoying and unnecessary.
On the plus side, the familiar=spellbook is really really cool. It adds a whole new dimension to the class, and, most importantly, it's completely unique. Their spell list is really nice, and I'm glad Jason and co decided to give them a unique spell list (it was very necessary, IMO).
Agree.
On the downside, Intelligence feels like a wholly inappropriate stat for a class that's about bargaining and communing. I'd like a few less hexes and hexes that are a bit stronger, but that may just be me. And the familiar feels like a major liability. Your familiar's a lot more likely to die than your spellbook, and the imbue power is unbelievably weak and too late into the class. It needs a better imbue, potentially 3/4 of your hp, and the ability to deliver your touch attack hexes. Also, the class needs 4 skill points.
Not so much. Intelligence strikes me fine for a class who is cunning and wily, but I could see arguments for charisma or even wisdom. As for the hexes, I like that they're a bit on the weak side but useable as often as you like, though most have the limitations of 1/day per critter. Witches are now the first prepared full-caster who don't have the option to increase their spells per day at some cost, so having something else to do in any/every combat in really nice. Also, they ARE full casters, so pumping them up is a bad idea.
As far as skill points go, I couldn't disagree with you more. This class is so freaking SAD (single attribute dependent) that it's almost terrifying. Everything they do depends on their intelligence score, which means they'll likely have as many skill points as a bard or ranger. I *would* like to see more class skills, though.
Now, onto your comment on the imbue ability. Ok, this ability (as it is) is freakin' amazing. By the time you reach 11th level, you're probably not doing a whole hell of a lot with your 1st level spells. They're there, mildly useful (ray of enfeeblement & obscuring mist spring to mind), but not something you're likely to be spending a lot of time with in combat. So now you can start giving these lower level spell slots to your familiar who can now cast them alongside you, which acts as a VERY cheap quicken spell. Personally +4 spell levels has always been to rich for my blood, even in the high teens. 3.5 had Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability in the Spell Compendium, and that was BROKEN as all get-out. I like that this ability has transitioned, but is much more in line now.
I would agree that familiars need the ability to cast your touch-range spells, but since it's now my spellbook there's no way in hades I'll be sending it anywhere near something that can hit it.
And, the retarded healing progression is annoying and unnecessary.
I'm not really sure what you mean here. If you're talking about the healing hexes, I couldn't agree more. The first one is worth taking until you reach 3rd or 4th level, when it becomes useless. The second I can see being mildly useful for the same amount of time. If you're talking about the progression at which they receive healing spells, it's roughly on par with a druid, save for cure moderate. Honestly, it's better than I expected, especially for an arcane class. I've got no issues there.
I really want to change my chaotic neutral wizard into a witch. But there are problems.
Because witches use a specialized spell list, all of the 3e/3.5e supplements you have are incompatible unless you bargain with your DM to let a spell into the witches list. Witches do not get a great spell list. Their hexes can make up for that a bit, but still.
I don't really like the specialized spell lists because they make it harder to use 3rd party spells with the class. The ability to make use of all of my 3.5 stuff is one of the reasons I use pathfinder over 3.5.
The bonus spells granted by their familiars are interesting, but they add a lot of design complexity. Now you have to balance a familiars ability to deliver touch attacks vs. the bonus power they grant their master, vs. the bonus spells they grant their master. It gets fairly complex.
And what about improved familiars, or alternate familiars? I would love a witch with a pseudo-natural quasit (I could bring my plush cthulhu to the game table), but what would it bonus spells be?
It seems their spell list is following a theme, but I cant put my finger on it. I would try to work with the DM to see which ones seem like they would be witch spells.
I think there needs to be an opposite of Blight. Call it something like Verdant? Basically, on land it promotes growth, restores health of the land, and directly counteracts any Blight hex by a witch of equal or lower level. Cast on a person, it restores 1 con per day, gives them increased healing (2x normal healing, +1 hp per cure spell cast on them, etc).
ow, onto your comment on the imbue ability. Ok, this ability (as it is) is freakin' amazing. By the time you reach 11th level, you're probably not doing a whole hell of a lot with your 1st level spells. They're there, mildly useful (ray of enfeeblement & obscuring mist spring to mind), but not something you're likely to be spending a lot of time with in combat. So now you can start giving these lower level spell slots to your familiar who can now cast them alongside you, which acts as a VERY cheap quicken spell. Personally +4 spell levels has always been to rich for my blood, even in the high teens. 3.5 had Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability in the Spell Compendium, and that was BROKEN as all get-out. I like that this ability has transitioned, but is much more in line now.
Those are good points. I concede on this one (though, not the others).
Those are good points. I concede on this one (though, not the others).
I only comment after having abused the spell Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability for 2 years.
My first impression is best summed up by a quote I read once:
"Colder than a witch's tit, my butt! You're hot!"
That is one nice looking witch. Even if she is lacking a pointy hat.
Guess there's only two chances left for a half-orc iconic. It'll be either the alchemist or inquisitor, then. Or possibly the anti-paladin. Can't say I mind the look of the witch illo, but I'd honestly have expected a half-orc witch if we were getting a half-orc iconic.
I'll look at the class mechanics now. But artwork is sort of my thing.
Ok, looking through the skill section, I was surprised to see a few skills I considered "witchy" to be missing. I realize that witches aren't charisma based, but just on folklore I would have expected at least ONE of the conversation skills in there (bluff, diplomacy, or intimidate). Disguise, handle animal, sense motive, and survival all seemed like great choices but are missing.
I agree. Disguise, intimidate, sense motive, and survival all should be class skills for witches, IMO. These skills are too iconic to the witch archetype to not have as class skills.
Because witches use a specialized spell list, all of the 3e/3.5e supplements you have are incompatible unless you bargain with your DM to let a spell into the witches list. Witches do not get a great spell list. Their hexes can make up for that a bit, but still.
I don't really like the specialized spell lists because they make it harder to use 3rd party spells with the class. The ability to make use of all of my 3.5 stuff is one of the reasons I use pathfinder over 3.5.
I agree. I hope that the classes with custom spell lists all get instructions on what spells from other supplements to add. Even if it's just a few guidelines like "healing spells a druid gets" "wizard/sorcerer charm spells" and the like.
And the familiar feels like a major liability. Your familiar's a lot more likely to die than your spellbook, and the imbue power is unbelievably weak and too late into the class. It needs a better imbue, potentially 3/4 of your hp, and the ability to deliver your touch attack hexes.
I completely agree. The risk of losing all the spells you have spent time, effort, and gold to learn is way too high. It's even more penalizing than the old xp penalty. IMO, when a new familiar is summoned, the spells the witch's familar learned should be regained. At the very least, they should have the same HP as the witch, not 1/2.
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I think there needs to be an opposite of Blight. Call it something like Verdant? Basically, on land it promotes growth, restores health of the land, and directly counteracts any Blight hex by a witch of equal or lower level. Cast on a person, it restores 1 con per day, gives them increased healing (2x normal healing, +1 hp per cure spell cast on them, etc).
I don't know about the details, but I agree with the need for a counter to blight. I like what you have here, but I would have to break it out and beat it on some stuff to see how it holds up to make sure it's balanced, though on paper it looks good.
I don't know about the details, but I agree with the need for a counter to blight. I like what you have here, but I would have to break it out and beat it on some stuff to see how it holds up to make sure it's balanced, though on paper it looks good.I think there needs to be an opposite of Blight. Call it something like Verdant? Basically, on land it promotes growth, restores health of the land, and directly counteracts any Blight hex by a witch of equal or lower level. Cast on a person, it restores 1 con per day, gives them increased healing (2x normal healing, +1 hp per cure spell cast on them, etc).
Yeah, it's just a 'For example' thought, but it seems to be ok after looking it over again. It's really just the opposite of blight with improved healing tacked on (same as being tended by a healer, basically).
Just completed my first read, so I am still digesting, but my first thought is that the familiar should be able to deliver Hexes as well as spells.
Picture this......
Kitty wanders up to camp guards purring madly.
The guard with a soft spot, smiles and bends down to pet kitty.....and falls asleep.
I love it, overall. I agree that there should be a nega-blight, but not just to stop other witches' blighting. I like customizable classes, and I like that there could be a lot of different sorts of witches (in the same way that there are lots of different kinds of rogues, fighters, wizards, bards, etc.), and the opposite of blight would be great for a good-aligned witch who focuses on nature, alchemy, healing, and the like.
In a similar vein, I'd like to see more Grand Hexes, perhaps something in a less violent direction for those like I just mentioned?
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For folks saying that witch needs Diplomacy/Intimidate. She doesn't. Use the Charm Ability. It is Supernatural, does not appear to be a Spell and can be used on anyone. You can change it to Cow (as in Cower) for her threatening.
For her Disguise skill. Uh, Disguise Hex.
For Bluff. Nobody trusts a witch. Even when they are transformed there is something unseemly about them. Hell, they are lucky they got Sense Motive. Most witches are easy as pie to fool ("Why would I try to run from you beautiful Babyaga? You should check the fire before you put us in there crazy old pedophage woman.)
No winged monkeys :-(
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Just completed my first read, so I am still digesting, but my first thought is that the familiar should be able to deliver Hexes as well as spells.
Picture this......
Kitty wanders up to camp guards purring madly.
The guard with a soft spot, smiles and bends down to pet kitty.....and falls asleep.
I like that actually and agree.
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Do I like what I’m seeing?
That's a negative, Ghost Rider, the pattern is full.
I was really looking forward to the Witch and I was hoping that with so many examples out there that hadn’t quite make it in the past that Jason would pull it off, but I’m not seeing it. I’m not feeling the love for the class in its current configuration. It seems to me that a lot of the stuff just starts to get there, but then Jason pulls back afraid it will be too powerful.
Firstly I have to agree that charisma seems more inline with the way most witches are portrayed in fantasy. I understand the desire to keep the Cha based classes balanced with the Int based ones, but witches really do tend to be charismatic from the fear they induce to the alluring or peaceful looks they give to weary travels they lure into their huts. Even Glinda the good Witch of the North radiated charisma out her ears. I think a fix for this would be to borrow from, and I hate to say this, 4e and introduce the witch as a class that chooses which stat is primary either Int or Cha. Then design skill lists for each focus as applicable.
Their BAB progresses pretty fast for a spellcasting class not meant to get into combat. I’d allow armor use but restrict it to primitive and non-metal light armor, i.e. hide, leather, and bone armor. This would provide witches with some protection if they get into combat and also allow players to create characters more along the lines of witchdoctors.
Hexes are a nice touch, but most of them are strictly a one shot deal for the day or only affect one target at a time. For something that’s supposed to offset the class’s use of spells I’m not seeing it and I don’t like that some of them duplicate spells found on the witch spell list. I think hexes should be usable more than once a day, major hexes less than that, and greater hexes can remain once a day. Also cackle, cauldron, coven, and disguise should not be hexes as they seem more like class features than individual hexes.
I have to agree the familiar is a weak point as I know too many GMs, including myself, that if given the chance will take it out; the same for any animal companion. To have a character suddenly lose their spell book seems a tad overwhelming and restrictive. A possible fix for this might be to incorporate a totem like phylactery that was created at the time of summoning the familiar. My thought is since the familiar is granted basically as a boon by whichever power grants their ability they aren’t quite like other familiars. So unless the totem is destroyed the familiar reappears perhaps 24 hours later, which is still quite the nuisance but doesn’t completely shutdown the character unless both are destroyed at which point then everything stays the same as far as regaining a familiar and spells. I would also like to see the witch get access to the familiar feats as mentioned above to improve their familiar.
Hopefully we'll see some changes in the final to fix some of these and other things mentioned. I have faith that Jason will pull it off in the end.
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Do I like what I’m seeing?
That's a negative, Ghost Rider, the pattern is full.
I was really looking forward to the Witch and I was hoping that with so many examples out there that hadn’t quite make it in the past that Jason would pull it off, but I’m not seeing it. I’m not feeling the love for the class in its current configuration. It seems to me that a lot of the stuff just starts to get there, but then Jason pulls back afraid it will be too powerful.
Firstly I have to agree that charisma seems more inline with the way most witches are portrayed in fantasy. I understand the desire to keep the Cha based classes balanced with the Int based ones, but witches really do tend to be charismatic from the fear they induce to the alluring or peaceful looks they give to weary travels they lure into their huts. Even Glinda the good Witch of the North radiated charisma out her ears. I think a fix for this would be to borrow from, and I hate to say this, 4e and introduce the witch as a class that chooses which stat is primary either Int or Cha. Then design skill lists for each focus as applicable.
Their BAB progresses pretty fast for a spellcasting class not meant to get into combat. I’d allow armor use but restrict it to primitive and non-metal light armor, i.e. hide, leather, and bone armor. This would provide witches with some protection if they get into combat and also allow players to create characters more along the lines of witchdoctors.
Hexes are a nice touch, but most of them are strictly a one shot deal for the day or only affect one target at a time. For something that’s supposed to offset the class’s use of spells I’m not seeing it and I don’t like that some of them duplicate spells found on the witch spell list. I think hexes should be usable more than once a day, major hexes less than that, and greater hexes can remain once a day. Also cackle, cauldron, coven, and disguise should not be hexes as they seem more like class features than individual hexes.
Most hexes can affect multiple creatures each day, just usually each creature once. As they are constantly scaling, allowing for more could create quite a few broken situations. Such as the charming touch. While some of them could stand to be once a day, I agree that perhaps some more flexibility on how many times you can affect a creature with them could be more useful.
But I'm just clarifying, nowhere does it state your hexes are once per day, just USUALLY once per creature per day. This affects the following minor hexes...
Healing - As cure light wounds and obviously not allowed more than once per creature for a reason.
Misfortune - Which, really when you think about it, being able to use a move action, you can seriously hose a creature for an entire encounter.
Charm - A scaling charm effect can be devastating, especially when used correctly in social situations. Once per day per creature for obvious reasons.
Disguise - Not restricted to once per day, just at first level so restricted. After first level you can eventually go all day disguised.
Evil Eye - No restriction of once per day. Also, even if they MAKE it, you can continue it via cackle as written so far. This is by far one of the best choices to make.
Fortune - obviously restricted for a reason.
Sleep - Restricted for damn good reason. That's a free coupe de grace.
Might I point out, Blight has NO such restriction...If you blight a creature and they are under the curses effect they are HOSED, even if they run.
Tongues - Rounds per level, so not once per day. Handy when trying to figure out information you might not want others to know you can understand.
Ward - Not restricted to once per day, just one creature at a time, and no limit on duration. With enough luck, creatures can't hit unless they crit and this ward goes on for DAYS.
Major Hexes affected are...
Agony - Nauseated is powerful. Loss of a standard action destroys most classes in short order. This restriction I'm not worried about.
Flight - Not restricted, usually in one minute increments.
Hag's Eye - Not restricted to once per day, just usually a few minutes a day.
Major Healing - Obvious restriction.
Nightmares - No restriction at all. Use it every turn for all you care.
Retribution - No restriction at all upon it. Just a melee touch attack.
Vision - No restrictions.
Wax Figure - OBVIOUS reason for restrictions. Pulling the caster in the back to the front lines to play with the fighter is powerful. I don't know about you.
Weather Control - Our first TRUE once per day, and obvious reasons for it.
Death Curse - Obvious restriction
Eternal Slumber - Obvious Restriction.
Forced Reincarnation - Far too cruel to allow more than once a day.
Natural Disaster - Oh dear GODS please restrict this!
I have to agree the familiar is a weak point as I know too many GMs, including myself, that if given the chance will take it out; the same for any animal companion. To have a character suddenly lose their spell book seems a tad overwhelming and restrictive. A possible fix for this might be to incorporate a totem like phylactery that was created at the time of summoning the familiar. My thought is since the familiar is granted basically as a boon by whichever power grants their ability they aren’t quite like other familiars. So unless the totem is destroyed the familiar reappears perhaps 24 hours later, which is still quite the nuisance but doesn’t completely shutdown the character unless both are destroyed at which point then everything stays the same as far as regaining a familiar and spells. I would also like to see the witch get access to the familiar feats as mentioned above to improve their familiar.
Hopefully we'll see some changes in the final to fix some of these and other things mentioned. I have faith that Jason will pull it off in the end.
I see it as no different than your wizard's spell book. Any GM who understands the relationship could just as easily do something like sunder a spell book, or even steal it. So, if you're the type to kill familiars and animal companions, you're also the type that has been screwing over wizards given half a chance anyways. If that's the case, this is only different in that the spell book can fight back, and perhaps get it's master to wake up and defend it properly. Any witch worth their salt would protect their familiar with their life. As they have access to healing magic, they can definitely make that a reality.
The familiar is worse than a spellbook because you can have a backup with the same spells. If you replace the familiar you only get the spells you would have had anyway, not any spells you gained through scrolls or another witch before the familiar died.
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The familiar is worse than a spellbook because you can have a backup with the same spells. If you replace the familiar you only get the spells you would have had anyway, not any spells you gained through scrolls or another witch before the familiar died.
Yes, you can, yet you miss the point.
Familiar = Spell book in that both are lynch pins to a casting class.
There are some ways that a spell book is better.
And there are ways a familiar is better.
But both are vital for their parent classes to function. THAT is what I'm getting at. She admits she targets class features as much as possible. I point out a wizard that gets his arcane bond or spell book destroyed/stolen could just as easily be hosed as the witch who's familiar dies.
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I'm in the process of building a playtest desert witch complete with Raven familiar.
I noticed that a witch does not get Hideous Laughter on their spell list. I think this spell absolutely should be on the Witch's spell list as it fits the flavour perfectly.
Also there are no monkey familiars. A witch needs an evil monkey familiar (Wicked Witch of the West's winged monkeys, Tia Dalma's evil monkey from Pirates of the Caribbean).
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Only one blight can be done at a time.Even still, ongoing con damage? And if you ever really need it, you can always retarget and let your last victim remember how lucky he is you aren't spiteful enough to keep hammering his con.
But see that's a flaw because a witch's curse isn't suppose to go away unless she lifts it or you get them removed some how. Not because she decided to hex someone else with the same thing she hit you up with.
I point out a wizard that gets his arcane bond or spell book destroyed/stolen could just as easily be hosed as the witch who's familiar dies.
True
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But see that's a flaw cause witches curses aren't suppose to go away unless she lifts them or you get them removed some how. Not because she decided to hex someone else with the same thing she hit you up with.Only one blight can be done at a time.Even still, ongoing con damage? And if you ever really need it, you can always retarget and let your last victim remember how lucky he is you aren't spiteful enough to keep hammering his con.
I think that fits more with the flavor. A black witch would have multiple hexes and multiple curses thrown out. She would hand select her curses, and only use them when she has picked the best for her particular victim. With this in mind, it really would be an act of spite, to have her refuse to blight, almost to the point of her own death, just to continue to drain the constitution damage on her target. I also doubt she's going to want to blight things longer than a week or two, since so few things could withstand it. You're looking at a kill every ten days if they fail that initial save.
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Perhaps. I tend to see it more that they just keep dishing out the curses in a cast and forget method. Why, because they really don't care. Unless they're good that is.
Lore wise in that what you are saying fits the concept of a witch better I completely agree. Game balance I am not so sure it would be balanced.
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Only reason I didn't respond is at this point its a matter of opinion. I just figure the witch to be a bit more calculating than most. She has made a pact and has gone to great lengths to get power, I doubt she'd be throwing her weight around willy nilly if she wanted to stay around long enough to enjoy it.
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I am utterly in love with this class. I have never seen a class i instantly liked more. It is the pure stuff of fairy tale. The Dark, nasty sort with moral message and twisted logic, where the big bad wolf goes to serial conventions and poems tell us to never eat or break anything in old ladies homes.
Me too! Wow! It may not be an ideal PC class, but wonderfully flavorful stuff like 'Coven' or 'Cackle' and 'Cauldron' (to mention a few hexes) are the GM's dream abilities for a witch. Brilliant! *This* is what a Witch class should be like, and I love that some of the hexes work in synergy with Cackle! That is good design, and I would love to see more of that in the final product.
Damn you, Buhlman! I had thought that we wouldn't need more base classes, and in any case classes like 'Summoner', 'Oracle' or 'Witch' would be totally uninteresting and irrelevant to my games. Boy, was I wrong... the Cavalier is the only class I'm not excited about, but the rest make me want to use them as BBEGs as soon as possible (I immediately thought of a adventure featuring a coven of witches and a sea hag). Needless to say, I feel like I simply *HAVE* to buy this book, regardless of my initial negative attitude towards new classes.
GRRR, once *I* gain a few Witch levels, I'll be using my Evil Eye on some Paizonians! ;)
(let me repeat: *AMAZING* work there, guys!)
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Personally I have a small issue with the Witch Hex Coven.
The limitation of powers unless you have a Hag seems a bit wonky. It seems to me that the coven hex is mostly taken by evil Witches mostly. I understand that it can be made to work without Hags, but I think that the Hex will simply pushed aside by most players.
While I was talking about this the other night with my wife, we were thinking that there should be a analog to the Hag that as non-evil, but simular. Thats when we stared to talk about "The Crone". Crones would be relatively isolated types that would be more or less hermit types that protect certain areas. The wouldn't have to be good aligned so they could still be opponents, but they could provide guidance and or training to a witch. Crones would also be able to enter into a Coven just like Hags. I see Baba Yaga's daughters as being split between Hags, Crones and Witches.
I hope that I'm not sounding like this should all sound like sunshine and kittens. I really don't. Coven should the the Witch analog as magic guild is to Wizards and Sorcerers and churches are to Clerics and Paladins. And they should make for good opponents just as much as allies.
All in all, I like the Witch concept, and the Hag concept, but since Paizo is building on the concept, Paizo should take the next logical step and shine it up(IMHO). I think that you have a really good idea here that mixes the divine/arcane caster concept.
Boys, the art is AWESOME !!!!!
Now, among Seoni, Merisiel, Kyra, Amiri, Lini, the Oracle, and the Witch... oh, boys, I want to make a Power-Ranger-gals-only-party !!!
Better yet, I would want to ENCOUNTER such a party...
(I know, I know, I left Seelah out... maybe she would look much prettier without wearing her IRONCLAD ?)
But seriously, the class seems really interesting ! The whole 'connection with mystical forces through the familiar' seems a great way to role-play what I've always seen as a rather bland feature of Wizards and Sorcerers.
Hmm, time to make a Witch, call her Keziah Mason, and give her a Rat Familiar called 'Brown Jenkin'...
...Ia! Shub-Niggurath ! The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young !!!
Well I can see some of the familiars being more of a liability to a witch than an actual boon. The three that stick out to me are the goat, pig, and octopus. A hungry beast would logically attack these creatures as choice of prey being in their natural food chain before attacking a humanoid. I mention these three especially because they are large enough to be spotted easily and cannot hide somewhere on the witches person. An octopus familiar can serve in an aquatic adventure, but what happens when the adventure takes place on land far from the sea? I as a dm would definitely attack the familiar most chances I got. In contrast a wizard usually has a backup copy of his spells in another book and a wizards spellbook is usually hidden somewhere on his person.
I have the same feelings on the subject. I consider it more of liability to an NPC when facing smart players which I described in another post.
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Lore wise in that what you are saying fits the concept of a witch better I completely agree. Game balance I am not so sure it would be balanced.
The thing is, I believe it can be achieved, it's just a matter of finding the right angle to work it and then following through. As I mentioned, some of the hexes in my opinion should be class features separated from the ability. More combat oriented abilities should be found, but also more abilities related to traditional portrayals in both history, movies, and fantasy fiction. I agree about baneful polymorph needing to be added.
Movies to think about would be Willow, the queen could be viewed as a witch following Hollywood logic and more recently Drag Me to Hell. The curse in that movie would be an awesome level 20 curse, though sped up for combat purposes. I could see it being placed on the target and they have a number of rounds or even days equal to Int Bonus to appease the witch or the demon/power they serve comes and drags them away to be imprisoned somewhere.
A thought that just occurred to me, speaking of imprisonment, what about giving them hexes related or similar to the Deck of Many Things? It's definitely a hodge podge of boons and curses.
Any way this is just the first look and as Dissinger points out; we're more or less coming down to an issue of preferences and opinions. We're not all going to be happy. Though it would be nice if Jason would give it some thought and at least maybe add a few more things to the list.
Well I can see some of the familiars being more of a liability to a witch than an actual boon. The three that stick out to me are the goat, pig, and octopus. A hungry beast would logically attack these creatures as choice of prey being in their natural food chain before attacking a humanoid. I mention these three especially because they are large enough to be spotted easily and cannot hide somewhere on the witches person. An octopus familiar can serve in an aquatic adventure, but what happens when the adventure takes place on land far from the sea? I as a dm would definitely attack the familiar most chances I got. In contrast a wizard usually has a backup copy of his spells in another book and a wizards spellbook is usually hidden somewhere on his person.
When I mentioned GMs going after familiars/animal companions I was thinking in terms of in combat when the controller uses them for purposes of attack or delivering a spell. I've met too many players who believe that poor Scruffy shouldn't be attacked. If you're going to stick them in the front line or have them on the battlefield they're fair game in my opinion. I personally take the approach that if you do it once in awhile they can get away with it, but if they try it every combat, well, Scruffy's going to die.