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Level caps have NOTHING to do with things being silly. They're arbitrary. We might as well have a level cap of 30, 36, 40, 50, 100, or 321. The point is that there NEEDS to be a level cap because that helps us design a balanced game.
In the core game, we can say "The tarrasque is one of the most ferocious and deadly creatures in the world" AND we can support that by building him as a CR 25 monster, because we know that the implied level cap of the core game is level 20. If the core game had no level cap, then CR 25 would work for some groups, but for others would be too low and others it'd be too high. There's no baseline and that's bad.
So moving on to epic. Say we want to stat up Cthulhu and set him as "the baddest of the bad threats that you can face as an epic level character." If we don't have a level cap... what CR should Cthulhu be? If there's no epic level cap, we can still say Cthulhu is a CR 52 monster, but without a level cap there's nothing preventing someone from saying Cthulhu's dad is CR 55. And then someone else can come along with Cthulhuzilla at CR 60. Basically, the lack of a level cap turns the game into an arms race.
WITH a level cap, though, we can keep everything under control.
And you'll note that, just as epic level would, say, provide rules for play of level 21 through level 36 (effectively "raising" the core game's level cap), there's NOTHING preventing anyone from creating yet another expansion to the game that details things for level 37 to level 50...
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When a product called the "Book of the Damned: Princes of Darkness" won't even attempt stats for the archdevils, you know you have a problem as a company.
More high level adventures and source material please!
In order to stat out archdevils, or arch anything, you need epic rules. Or do you just want them to have 900 HP and die in 3 rounds to full attack by an optimized archer fighter ?
And no, "there's epic in SRD, just point to that" won't work. Same as to why it won't work with psionics.
Creative Director
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While I can forgive Paizo not having Epic rules in 2010, what I can't forgive is not having more material for high level, pre-epic play (levels 15-20). I've posted in many threads that I do understand that high level material hasn't traditionally sold as well as the level 5-9 stuff, but I believe that Paizo should look at this as a challenge to be beaten, not as a trap to be avoided.
When a product called the "Book of the Damned: Princes of Darkness" won't even attempt stats for the archdevils, you know you have a problem as a company.
It's important to keep in mind a sense of perspective when it comes to epic level stuff, though; remember, it's popularity PALES in comparison to the popularity of 1st through 20th level play, and even there the most popular band of play is 1st through about 12th.
And not putting epic-level stats for the archdevils in Book of the Damned was a very conscious move; we don't KNOW what our epic rules will look like yet. Fans of epic level content might remember how back in early 3rd edition days, the Deities & Demigods book came out only a few months before the Epic Level Handbook, but it didn't utilize that content. So you had a big book of deity stat blocks that VERY swiftly became obsolete once the epic level rules came out and did things very different. It was frustrating and disappointing. We don't want to put out books filled with epic level stats only to be totally wrong when we finally support those stats... nor do we want to marginalize sales on the Book of the Damned by focusing a significant portion of its content on material that a relatively small subset of our total fan base wants to see.
Epic level stuff is fun. I love it. I wrote a lot of epic level content for 3.5 (most of it in the form of Demonomicon articles), but I also understand that it's not the most popular form of gaming.
Hopefully, when we do an epic level book, it'll help change that. Certainly we'll provide some support for the epic level rules once we DO do the rules... but not so much BEFORE we do those rules. I'm a huge fan of demon lord and arch devil stat blocks, so you can BET that there'll be stats for them soon as we do our epic stuff... likely even in the same book if the book's big enough.
As for more high level content... we did produce a 15th level module earlier in this year: Blood of Dragonscar. I'm relatively sure that its sales didn't tell us that there was a lot of folks champing at the bit for high level content, though.
But even so... with the new Adventure Path we'll be launching in 2 to 3 months, Kingmaker, we WILL be trying to delve into the upper end of things. I'm hoping to take Kingmaker up to 18th level, similar to what we did with Rise of the Runelords.
And we'll have some other surprises eventually as well.
But remember, it took a few years for 3rd edition to get its epic level book out. We're only a few months out from our game's launch. We'll get to doing epic content eventually... but we can't do it right now.
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As for more high level content... we did produce a 15th level module earlier in this year: Blood of Dragonscar. I'm relatively sure that its sales didn't tell us that there was a lot of folks champing at the bit for high level content, though.
Interesting. I bought the module during the "PDF craze" sale out of pure curiosity. I found the story good, but didn't have much heart for digging into the crunch. Was the module that under-selling ?
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If you had the "keys" Mr. Jacobs, would you create a book of epic challenges to support this product or would that be sliced into the Epic Handbook? Perhaps not, because players would use it?
I am also wondering if an Epic Bestiary would support this product quickly behind? This would be perhaps a massive rumaging of mythological creatures from the greatest stories world over and beasties from the most demented minds. The sell value might be pretty high for epic mythological creatures revisted.
I am very excited about what you guys will come up with when it comes to epic. Epic is the part of 3.5 that I wouldn't mind seeing completely redone. Given Paizo is a more "applied rules conscientiousness" company than just an "idea, making new messes as we go" group, I am very keen to see what products you would like to see in support of Paizo's version of epic.
It can't be easy releasing such a thing as standalone, given the time it would take to properly "fix it". That kind of development would be a waste without proper support, and to get that support you will need the community behind the product (to some greater degree). This is why I am wondering as to how many 3rd tier products you would release to support this hard work.
Example: Just a module here or there?
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Creative Director
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As it turns out, I have access to quite a few of the "keys" that make things go at Paizo. And I would love to see us support an epic level book... I'm relatively sure we WOULD support it, since it's silly to create something and then just ignore it.
Unfortunately, every epic level product we do would more or less have to replace a non-epic product, and that means that when the budgets are created and forecast and all that, there'd need to be a LOT of number crunching to determine how much epic level support we'd be able to do. I'm absolutely certain we wouldn't abandon support of the core game just to put all our weight behind the epic game. In a lot of ways, an epic book is a lot like a new edition of the game, and putting out Pathfinder was not an easy task and I do NOT want to try it again soon... we need time to heal and recharge and let the new game settle down before we start uprooting trees to build a bigger garden next door.
In any event, we're still WAY too far away from handing out specifics and details as to our exact plans for epic level play and support. Ask me again in, say, 18 months. I might have a different answer then... but I might not.
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I can feel you are eager to tackle this one James. I suppose there is more here (to be had) than satisfying the whiners who beg for more. 18 months is awhile (though I know you are wondering what will happen after the next 12), but I think you guys are right in exploring your hard work. Gardens are demanding to upkeep in the summer months. Conventionally speaking.
Well, just to reiterate, it's possible to dial down the power level after the epic levels that Paizo chooses to cover, to give the game the *feeling* of being infinite. The concept of hard/final level caps provides a limit to imagination rather than leaving it open, in my opinion. Level caps also give the impression that the game "ends" at a certain point. (And therefore might imply that the way to "win" is to get to that final level.)
My point is, if Paizo can support a progression to level 36 at a certain level of power, they could also leave the door open for those who want to go beyond - either similarly to how it was done in the Core Rulebook or having simple rules like +3 hit points a 1 feat per level (or two levels or whatever). The advantage to doing so is that there is no limitation for those that do not want one and 36th level characters (if that is the top "supported" level) and 50th level characters will look fairly similar. One could also simply say that for every 2,000,000 xps (or whatever) beyond the supported level cap, characters gain a feat and +3 hit points (or whatever).
I just think back to when I first picked up AD&D and how cool the game was (as an 11 year old) that I could make a 500th level character if I wanted to do so. The only limits were my imagination...
Here is what might be a stupid question...is the 3.0 ELH open content?
I believe the monsters are since Mongoose used a bunch of them in their epic level monster book.
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Creative Director
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Here is what might be a stupid question...is the 3.0 ELH open content? And if so, can we expect any of those monsters to recieve updates to PF eventually? For all of its faults (and there were plenty..), alot of the monsters were cool, if unbalanced. Abominations, hoary hunters, the gloom, brachyurus's, etc.
Lots of potential for cool updates, stat wise and flavor wise.
The Epic Level Handbook is in the SRD. All of the monsters in there are open content, I believe.
I am so not the guy for this question. I get to tell people about stuff we've announced. Not only have we not announced such a thing, but I doubt that anybody's even spent all that much time really thinking about it yet.
Every time I see this thread title, I think "What should President Obama do about the unemployment rate? Vic?"
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When a product called the "Book of the Damned: Princes of Darkness" won't even attempt stats for the archdevils, you know you have a problem as a company.
I disagree. Of course, I'm pretty old school...I still prefer the older Call of Cthulhu entry for Cthulhu that says Attacks: Cthulhu devours 1d6 investigators per round.
For gods, and even for archdevils and equivalently powered entities, I have no problem with the lack of a stat block. After all, just because some munchkin rolls up a 300th level uber-character, that doesn't mean that Asmodeus still shouldn't be able to smack him around like he was a 0th level kobold commoner.
The perfect stat block for archdevils/gods:
Init He goes first; Senses all; Perception He sees you
DEFENSE
AC You don't hit him
hp More than you'll ever whittle away, even if you could hit him
Auto-Save vs Mortals
OFFENSE
Speed: Damn Fast
Melee: He kills you
Ranged: He kills you from across the room
Special Attacks: Lots of them
STATISTICS
Str High, Dex High, Con High, Int High, Wis High, Cha High
Base Atk His attack succeeds; CMB He gets you; CMD You don't get him
Feats: Most of them
Skills: Most of them Auto-Succeed
SQ: Lots of them
Combat Gear: Pretty much anything he wants
I'm thinking the Epic Level book should set the soft cap at 36 (for historical and mathematical reasons) and then describe rules that drastically dial down how much power you gain for levels past 36. That would allow them to keep the balance that Mr. Jacobs is concerned about, and yet not really limit in any way how far any given player might want to take a character. I gave a similar suggestion earlier in this thread, but here's the revised version:
+ CON modifier in hit points (no hit dice past 36th)
+ INT modifier in skill points (no class skill points past 36th)
BAB, saving throw, and ability score increases stop at 36th
Beyond 20th, feats are replaced with Epic Feats
Epic feat progression dials down to one feat every 4 (more? less?) levels past 36th level
Spell progression (spells knows for spontaneous casters, spells per day for all spellcasters) ceases at 36th
The vast majority of abilities that improve with level cease at 36th
As you can see, most power acquired would be through gaining epic feats (or regular feats, which could be substituted). If you want to run a more high powered campaign, epic feats could come every level instead of every odd-numbered level.
I hated those epic feats...
Oh come on, a lot of those epic feats ROCKED! Especially the deflect arrow chain, deflect anything, reflect arrow, infinite deflection...now your monk is virtually invincible against ranged attacks (aoe's still have a CHANCE of not getting evaded). Those feats were what they said they were, epic! Epic characters don't run out of the Mines of Moria with their tails tucked between their legs, they look up at the Balrog, look at each other, shrug, and then proceed to hand it it's own head on a chilled platter.
I did have a question though, is the content that was presented in the "Epic Insights" articles open content? I have lustfully been wanting to play a Void Incarnate since it was first released so I would love to see it transitioned into a hypothetical Epic Handbook for Pathfinder.
Epic characters don't run out of the Mines of Moria with their tails tucked between their legs, they look up at the Balrog, look at each other, shrug, and then proceed to hand it it's own head on a chilled platter.
which makes for an incredibly dull campaign. If nothing will send you running then whats the point?
Epic characters don't run out of the Mines of Moria with their tails tucked between their legs, they look up at the Balrog, look at each other, shrug, and then proceed to hand it it's own head on a chilled platter.which makes for an incredibly dull campaign. If nothing will send you running then whats the point?
Oh, trust me, things send them running :)
Yes there are....like Fanes (sp?)
Init He goes first; Senses all; Perception He sees you
DEFENSE
AC You don't hit him
hp More than you'll ever whittle away, even if you could hit him
Auto-Save vs Mortals
OFFENSE
Speed: Damn Fast
Melee: He kills you
Ranged: He kills you from across the room
Special Attacks: Lots of them
STATISTICS
Str High, Dex High, Con High, Int High, Wis High, Cha High
Base Atk His attack succeeds; CMB He gets you; CMD You don't get him
Feats: Most of them
Skills: Most of them Auto-Succeed
SQ: Lots of them
Combat Gear: Pretty much anything he wants
This is great stuff.
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Um one good solution to the cthulu's dady problem (aka making level threats high enough to be feared) is maybe creating rules for the PCs to be in conflict and to be their own high challenge rating encounters. One of my dms talks about a game he ran in which each PC was given control of a nation / organization and were to plot against each other. There was of course events and monsters that would present threats but the way he described it, it was more of a competition for DR. Evil status, which would be fuun.
Again, please be aware some of us really do want to run epic-level campaigns, especially those based off japanese anime. We want to run a game where the wizard is throwing fireballs that take down entire castles, there's a horde of great wyrms flying at you, or you're leveling down stone columns with each swing. That can work in a D&D game and it can be a lot of fun. I believe a lot of people here never really had the imagination or even attempted to really play an epic level game. It's as if you're scared the minute a bonus is over +40 or the damage dice goes over 20d6. I don't undersand the fear, my players don't, and it's not fair to the rest of us and those like us.
One more thing to note, I have seen many other gamers play epic level games or want to. They're not a very vocal bunch. And they definitely do not prowl messageboards like TTRPG starved fiends. I have seen many gamers start their characters off at 10th or 15th level just so they don't have to boringly trudge through the lower levels.
An online poll wouldn't help you figure out how big your epic-level fanbase truly is. The only way is to go out there and see for yourself. I've seen them in NY, FL, and here in MO. Most play, or want to play, epic level games. Both demographics don't bother, however, because there is no support for epic level play. That is why you tend to see things stick between 1-20 mostly, no one is going to bother pushing 21+ if there's no support for it.
Thank you Razz I agree with you fully...
Ah, the silent majority... ;)
Um one good solution to the cthulu's dady problem (aka making level threats high enough to be feared) ...
Templates and class levels, that's my answer.
Not sure what the ill will is towards templates; I like them as a way of giving monsters a specific flavor.
One of my recent favorites, however, was an umbral blot ninja. That was fun.
Ruin chanters with lots of bard levels are cool, too, especially if they max out Seeker of the Song levels.
Right now I'm running an encounter where the party has to deal with the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (see Advanced Bestiary) where each is a primal necromental with the Four Horsemen template. They did set them free, so it's only fair.
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This is slightly off topic (but not too far off)
There was mention of Throne of Bloodstone H4 in this thead.
I really like the general story line plot in this H1-H4 series. I have long wanted to see this adventure re made.
I have long thought the whole H1-H4 series had fantastic Epic potential. I would love to see this reworked and well done. This could be the super Epic Mega Adventure, yet ........... I still wait and hope for this to be done.
So............ I realize this is slightly more than a hope and wish.
But I would LOVE for Pathfinder to develop Epic level rules and also support with Epic adventures. I would be thrilled beyond belief to see a "Bloodstone" epic mega adventure from Paizo.Does anyone know of any serious attempts to rewrite this in 3.0/3.5 tradition? Any websites, or online groups that have gone through this adventure.
I would even like to see a novel written about this theme. I like some of the older novels that were written based on old D&D modules.
"Against the Giants" by Ru Emerson
"The Temple of Elemental Evil" by Thomas M Reid
"Tomb of Horrors" By.??Would love to see a well done Novel about the Bloodstone series. It could easily be a 3-4 part book.
Your post has now been replied to.
Less snarky, as you clearly indicated this was an Off-Topic post, so your chances of getting a meaningful response is diminished. Its an interesting topic, and there is a lot of love for those old modules, so you might consider creating a thread just for that topic alone.
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There were a few posts speaking about giving low level spells an "at will" status for simplicity.
I would have to disagree with this sentiment. One of the main rules for epic level progression was the inability to gain more spells after 20th level.
So with spell progression stopped at Level cap 20, (and everyone still keeping track of spells at that level, why do this. First off it really messes with alot of lower level feats, making some actually useless.
i am not concentrating on the healing angle of this, but unlimited healing? You cant have that in any incarnation of the game.
Just my two cents.
CC
i am not concentrating on the healing angle of this, but unlimited healing? You cant have that in any incarnation of the game.
Sure you can. All you need is the Innate Spell feat. That turns any healing spell into an at-will spell-like ability.
Throw Supernatural Transformation in there, and now it's a supernatural at-will ability, unaffected by anti-magic.
Um, supernatural abilities are affected by anti-magic. Just not dispel magic or related effects. But the point stands.
Um, supernatural abilities are affected by anti-magic. Just not dispel magic or related effects. But the point stands.
*forehead slap*
Spell resistance, that's what I was thinking of, not anti-magic. If you turn a spell into a supernatural ability, all those monsters with that nifty SR are suddenly wide open to it :)
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What I meant by my statement is you shouldnt just give out unlimited healing arbitrarily just to make things simple. (I should have quoted some of the prior posts I was refering to and I should have been more clear in my post.
If someone takes feats or gets special abilities from PrC's then (obviously) it is perfectly legal in game.
The ELH is my all time favorite RPG Book. The book was awesome, flawed, like everything else in life but awesome.
The best thing was the epic spells, that how magic should be, very close to perfect as far as I'm concerned. The idea of the seeds were great, and i liked all the epic metamagic feats.
The big negative was as james mentioned, level cap. Which did hurt the magic system, in that you really need to be about level 100+, because to do the really interesting stuff required very high spellcart checks.
another negative in my view, was not being able to as mage to ad lib with the seeds, and only knowing a limited number seem to be to go against the whole master of magic motiff of an "epic" mage.
Let me start out by saying I'm also more than old enough to appreciate 36th as a level cap.
Plus, really, as someone else argued, it lets us have monsters that go to 40, so that there are decent (powerful) opponents for players at 36th. And, from a game balance standpoint, I like the idea of there being a pinnacle of power that a mortal can reach.
If people want to then make a product for *after* that level (where, what, you go around beating down gods?) then they should do it, but I would have to think that such a player would, to some extent, need to be something *other* than mortal. (And, no, I don't think that you should just get the XP and now be an immortal, taa-da, yay you.) I mean, really, you're able to slap down gangs of pit fiends or solars -- the only real challenges that could possibly be left are ancient unspeakable evils beyond the ken of normal mortals, ancient sleeping gods, etc.
Being able to wield that kind of power would change you -- think about it, how can you be the same guy you were at first level when instead of fighting goblins, you're thinking about fighting the gods of the goblinoids?
So, yes, please - Epic rules = good. Level cap = Good. (36 = excellent!). I think we can avoid the bad rules that really come from the attempts at infinite scaling, and if someone wants to be even more powerful than that, then some form of massive quests and a whole new game are (and should be) needed.
From a purely mathematical standpoint, 36 is more elegant than 30 or 40. 36 is evenly divisible by 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 12, and 18. Abilities that improve every 2, 3, 4, 6, etc. levels would all have progressions that fit evenly into 36 levels, whereas 30 or 40 levels would leave remainders in most cases.
Also, 35th to 36th would level would be the point at which casters get their first 18th level spell slot. And, if epic casters are losing access to lower-level spells as they gain epic spells (as was alluded to in an earlier post by James), 35th to 36th level would be the point at which casters are finally casting only epic-level spells.
Also that has to be pointed out. 30 or 40 could look good, but mathematically speaking is "worse" than 36. Way worse.
About epic problems encountered that haven't been mentioned much here, the bookeeping and calculations. Am the GM and the one doing all the maths on the fly in my head at the table, and while I can keep it up at the same speed my players roll their dice, mentally keeping track for each one of the half-dozen or so buffs/modifiers affecting them and their targets etc non stop gets tiring quickly and leaves little space in my brain to focus on storytelling, etc during encounters.
Now, I love my friend players but I cannot ask them to help me much with the bookkeeping, it's jsut really not their strength :p.
Anyone got some tool they use other than excel spreadsheets and a calculator?
I have never played epic, but I will soon GM PCs that reach epic (22nd). My players *love* the idea of "making it". Hitting epic level should be a major achievement, one that I think very few players, yet alone PCs make. Thus, reaching that 21st level should definitely make a major difference.
On what is happening after that milestone, I agree on the level cap. I don't care for 30, 36 or 40. What matters is that every single level beyond 20 should be something a player wants to reach. Players should not want to stop to level, never.
One more thing: As far as I can tell, what matters most in epic play (and high level play) besides initiative is *action management*. Thus I can see BMFs having multiple actions to counter those pesky archmages and full-attacking fighters (This is why I especially love Demogorgon in STAP so much, and this is why I gave Kyuss Multispell). I can as well see very high-level characters do more than full-attack in a round. Multiple immediate actions are probably a good start, but then again that would be an arms race.
And: Epic level rules should very carefully discuss both godhood and artifacts. I'm torn whether to incorporate both or just pushing them past the epic level cap. But a very good reasoning for both should be provided for the sake of world integrity.
I can as well see very high-level characters do more than full-attack in a round.
As gratuitous as the whole thing was, Upper_Krust's Immortals Handbook had an interesting idea called "Metamartial Maneuvers," where a fighter-type character could trade off a penalty on their base attack bonus in exchange for special attacks. (Like dispelling attacks, etc.) I'll have to look up the specifics when I'm back on my regular PC, but the idea's interesting.
Once an epic product was done, and assuming a level cap around 36 justified as being the limit a mortal can reach, you know that the next product people would ask for would be a rebuild of the Divine rules so that they could make their characters into deities, in order to bypass the limits of mortality.
Since the Divine rules would likely see much less of an audience than even the Epic rules, wouldn't it be a good idea to at least consider including them in a revised Epic book? It would also help expand the audience for the book to GM's who may want to stat out their deities or other important immortals, but who may not necessarily want to let their players reach epic levels. (Basically same idea as including both PHB and DMG content in the Pathfinder Core book.)
Since the Divine rules would likely see much less of an audience than even the Epic rules, wouldn't it be a good idea to at least consider including them in a revised Epic book? It would also help expand the audience for the book to GM's who may want to stat out their deities or other important immortals, but who may not necessarily want to let their players reach epic levels. (Basically same idea as including both PHB and DMG content in the Pathfinder Core book.)
I think this is a very good idea "The Book of Imortals" or somthing like that would be great and apeal to a larger audience then either one of the books as a stand alone
I can as well see very high-level characters do more than full-attack in a round.As gratuitous as the whole thing was, Upper_Krust's Immortals Handbook had an interesting idea called "Metamartial Maneuvers," where a fighter-type character could trade off a penalty on their base attack bonus in exchange for special attacks. (Like dispelling attacks, etc.) I'll have to look up the specifics when I'm back on my regular PC, but the idea's interesting.
Ok, got the PDF printout in front of me. A good example is the Enlarge Attack metamartial maneuver. For an idea of it, imagine those scenes in movies/anime/fighting games where a fighter-type person swings their sword and either the wind off the sword attacks enemies at range, or just a wave of energy rolls across the ground from the attack, hitting everything between the fighter and their target.
For every -5 you take on your BAB, you double the range (remember a double-double's a triple, yadda yadda). So, with a -20 penalty, you could slash an archer that's 25 feet away.
There are maneuvers for stunning, crippling (ability damage), dazing, etc., even one for disruption of undead/elementals/other unnatural beings.
Out of curiosity, where can one find this Immortals' Handbook?
Out of curiosity, where can one find this Immortals' Handbook?
Got mine at umm... RPG Drive Thru, or Drive Thru RPG, or something like that. One of those PDF stores.
There's also the main Immortals Handbook site, but the author completely dropped 3e support for 4e (and took years to do things that were scheduled for weeks, anyway), so the 3rd edition stuff's not in any way, shape, or form complete aside from a couple of released PDFs.
He did post a few freebies scattered around his site. I found the "Absolutes" entries to be interesting.
I have to admit that I'm a little confused as to why if people want a level cap that 20th level is not high enough. A 20th-level fighter can make a one-man stand against a small army, a 20th-level wizard can stop time repeatedly, and a 20th-level monk ascends to another state of being. It's an especially good marker of the peak of mortal power when you consider the capstone abilities given to many classes. And, since high levels have not been supported much from Paizo as of yet, supplements aimed at levels 15-20 would practically seem like epic-level support anyway.
On the other hand, if an epic-level book was targeted at the path of godhood or something similar that made it clear PCs were going beyond the realm of mortals, that would be some pretty interesting stuff. I think that's what the Immortals set did well - you could go beyond the level cap, but doing so meant stepping into a whole new realm and not just continuing what came before.
And it was the only one that was ever made, in fact I don't remember any further support for the Immortals set at all.
I don't think Throne of Bloodstone was meant to support the Immortal set at all. It was an AD&D adventure, while Immortals was a D&D supplement.
In terms of support, I don't think the Immortals set got product support, but I believe Wrath of the Immortals, the 90s replacement to the original box, had three adventures for it.
And it was the only one that was ever made, in fact I don't remember any further support for the Immortals set at all.I don't think Throne of Bloodstone was meant to support the Immortal set at all. It was an AD&D adventure, while Immortals was a D&D supplement.
In terms of support, I don't think the Immortals set got product support, but I believe Wrath of the Immortals, the 90s replacement to the original box, had three adventures for it.
You're right that Throne of Bloodstone was not for the Immortals set. However, the three adventures you're thinking of were for the original Immortals set, not Wrath of the Immortals. Wrath had no adventures published to support it, but there was a series of almanacs (Poor Wizard's Almanac I, II, and III, and Joshuan's Almanac) that continued the world events that were started by the Wrath of the Immortals set.
I have to admit that I'm a little confused as to why if people want a level cap that 20th level is not high enough. A 20th-level fighter can make a one-man stand against a small army, a 20th-level wizard can stop time repeatedly, and a 20th-level monk ascends to another state of being. It's an especially good marker of the peak of mortal power when you consider the capstone abilities given to many classes. And, since high levels have not been supported much from Paizo as of yet, supplements aimed at levels 15-20 would practically seem like epic-level support anyway.
Well you have remember that these new-fangled...top....rocks..er, whatever are still kinda new to us 3rd (and 2nd, and 1st) Edition vets. I personally have two epic PCs from the 'old days', one who is ECL 37. You see he was 20th level when 3e came out, and the way all the numbers and powers worked...well we wanted to keep playing our 'mains'.
So, we stumbled along 'til the FRCS and then the ELH, and then we really took off...but....it doesn't really work well past 30 or so. So we haven't played epic seriously since late 2003....bummer. But, our epic PCs are still some of our favorite characters, and we would like to play them if possible.
I think in general many players want to keep playing their faves. Plus, once you get one of those...um...hat?..bricks....whatever....you want to use it!
I think this is a very good idea "The Book of Imortals" or somthing like that would be great and apeal to a larger audience then either one of the books as a stand alone
Since the Divine rules would likely see much less of an audience than even the Epic rules, wouldn't it be a good idea to at least consider including them in a revised Epic book? It would also help expand the audience for the book to GM's who may want to stat out their deities or other important immortals, but who may not necessarily want to let their players reach epic levels. (Basically same idea as including both PHB and DMG content in the Pathfinder Core book.)
I might call it something like "The Book of Legends" or "Heroes and Legends", since it wouldn't be all just about Immortals.