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In the spirit of Treantmonk's Guides I have created a far more limited guide for sorcerers. My guide is nowhere near as in depth as his guide and touches on one simple subject, spell selection. I put together the guide because I think this is the number 1 most important part of building an effective sorcerer.
Right now it only covers levels 1-5. Rather than create a whole new review of spells I defer to Treantmonks judgement in general and just point out spells which are particularly good and spells which he suggests are good but I don't think are a good match for the sorcerer.
Here is the current text of the guide but as with Treantmonks Guides this posting will be static but I will update the source document.
Ogre's Guide to Sorcerer Spell Selection
All Star Spells
Spells which are so well suited to the sorcerer you should be questioning why you didn't take these spells.
First Level
* Grease - Useful from level 1-20.
* Color Spray (Maybe swap at higher levels)
* Silent Image - Very useful at any level.
Second Level
* Invisibility
* Levitate (Swap after you get fly)
* Glitterdust
* Web
* Pyrotechnics - This is an underrated spell. Gives you the choice of 2 debuffs.
Third Level
* Haste!! <- Outdamages fireball 2:1 almost every time.
* Summon Monster III - Take this when you get a chance then retrain it later.
* Sleet Storm/ Stinking Cloud (at least one)
* Fly
Forth Level
* Black Tentacles - This spell ends encounters... every wizard/ sorcerer should have this spell at 4th level
* Dimension Door - Get out of anything free.
* Summon Monster IV - Retrain your SM III (Slow might be a good call) and take this
* Elemental Body - Check with your GM, if he allows casting while you are in an elemental body this is great for all around utility, otherwise skip it.
* Enervation - This is a great debuff, in particular for enemy casters.
Fifth Level
* Wall of Stone - more than just walls. Perfect for splitting your enemies in 2 or sealing off pursuit. (An close alternate is Wall of Force but don't take both)
* Telekinisis - Just too versatile to pass up.
That's all for now, I'll try and get the higher level spells up later
Stinkers
The biggest advantage the sorcerer has is his versatility in combat and the ability to pull any spell from his bag of tricks. By choosing spells poorly you are seriously limiting what's in his bag of tricks. Spells which are good or even great for wizards are sometimes poor choices for sorcerers to put in their known spells and should instead be accessed via a wand/ scroll. A general rule is any spell which you are only going to use once per day or under specific circumstances should be avoided. Sorcerers should fill their spell slots with spells they are going to use almost every encounter.
Here is my list of spells which are good spells for wizards but generally not great for sorcerers to take. They are not bad spells but just not a good use of a sorcerer's limited known spells slots. Also, keep in mind that spells Treantmonk identified as weak for wizards I don't recommend for sorcerers either.
* Mount (Buy a horse)
* Mage Armor (Wand at low levels then bracers later also consider Prot from Evil)
* Identify (wand)
* Feather Fall (Kind of screwed here but this is just too uncommon to use a slot on)
* Unseen Servant (Love this spell but works well from a wand too)
Second Level
* Darkvision (Alter Self instead)
* Resist Energy (Wand/ Scrolls)
* Minor Image (Silent Image instead)
* Rope Trick
Third Level
* Phantom Steed -> This is a tough call but I'm going to give this the thumbs down with one caveat. Once the steed can fly you can replace fly with this spell.
* Magic Weapon -> Leave the all day buffs to folks who sacrifice less to take them.
* Shrink Item -> Great spell for wizards, too situational for sorcerers
Forth Level
* No real stinkers here.
Fifth Level
* Telepathic Bond -> Too situational
* Overland Flight -> It's a tough call but I think there are better choices out there.
That's all for now, I'll try and get the higher level spells up later.
Awesome guide Dennis!
Nice work Ogre! Can't wait to see the finished product.
@Tim Burgers: That's a good point, I never really thought of that. If/when I make a sorcerer I'm gonna have to remember that. I would add a Blast Spell section, maybe with sub-sections for energy types. Maybe a generic Crowd Control with stuff like Black Tentacles and the fog spells you have grouped up there.
thanks for the guide
a question about magic weapon (I suppose you mean great) being a stinker tough.
As a sorcerer you take spells that you are very likely to use every day, because you have more spells per day as most other casters.
If the fighters rely on a steady casting of this spell, why would the sorcerer ask any other caster to do this?
This might not use the instant versatility of the sorcerer, but still.
I'm not saying you are totally wrong, but I can't really see the logic.
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*shrug*
It's less about specifics and more about a philosophy. You have very few spells and want spells you are going to use almost every day, preferably every encounter. If you have darkvision it means there is a fair chance you don't have glitterdust, web, or invisibility (or some of the other nice spells from newer books). Wizards can have five different spells memorized every day and can memorize a spell that is only useful for specific situations, sorcerers don't have that luxury.
As a side note, I find it amusing seeing this thread get necroed, I wrote that a long time ago.
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thanks for the guide
a question about magic weapon (I suppose you mean great) being a stinker tough.
As a sorcerer you take spells that you are very likely to use every day, because you have more spells per day as most other casters.
If the fighters rely on a steady casting of this spell, why would the sorcerer ask any other caster to do this?
This might not use the instant versatility of the sorcerer, but still.I'm not saying you are totally wrong, but I can't really see the logic.
*shrug*
It's about the relative cost of the spell. For a wizard or cleric the cost is a spell slot. For a sorcerer the cost is removing a pretty significant percentage of their in-combat options.
Take 10th level for example. A cleric or wizard can cast greater magic weapon on a fighter's sword and still have 4-5 other cool things he can do with his third level spells slots. At 10th level a sorcerer has three spells known. If you take greater magic weapon you now only have two options for what you can do in-combat with your third level spells. (Ok three, due to bloodline power).
Then again, as james says, much of it is thematic, maybe you are building a buffing caster and it's worth using those slots. The bigger point is to look at the relative cost of the spell which is significantly different for a sorcerer than for a wizard/ cleric.
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I probably would have presented this differently now... that said, the point wasn't to put together a exhaustive document for someone to use to build a character. I deliberately didn't go through and review every spell in the game for exactly that reason. The point was to highlight some of the more versatile, sorcerer friendly spells in the game and highlight some which are good for wizards but not so great for sorcerers because relative difference in the cost of the spell.
In general if you are making a sorcerer you are going to want at least some of those spells on your list.
Time after time people confuse Wizards and Sorcerers and take one but try to play it like the other, it never works well (or at least never as well.. depending on the bar).
That is exactly the point of the thread. I even talk about this in the text (which I suspect you skipped):
"A general rule is any spell which you are only going to use once per day or under specific circumstances should be avoided. Sorcerers should fill their spell slots with spells they are going to use almost every encounter."You keep looking at my examples but ultimately they are based on my personal experience with the game. You talked up feather fall, is this something you see using once a day? Twice a day? That's not been my experience.
Now when you get to higher levels and low level spells are more abundant (and other spells are far less useful) maybe adding it back in makes sense, but when you only have 7 spells known each one of those needs to be something you have a fair chance of using on a given day.
Sorcerer spell selection also relies on group composition. If you have a cleric capable of casting invisibility purge and a melee heavy party that can smash creatures quick, not much use for glitterdust.
Bloodline affects spell selection as well.
I usually build around a theme.
Nice thoughts D the Ogre. Overall, I like the list.
TB makes an excellent point on grouping spells by use.
I think the most important thing that can be done with Sorcerers is to plan your build (at least when it comes to spells), if you plan ahead, you can avoid redundancy.
Sorcerer spell selection also relies on group composition. If you have a cleric capable of casting invisibility purge and a melee heavy party that can smash creatures quick, not much use for glitterdust.
???? Oh right! Glitterdust makes invisible enemies visible...forgot about that.
Honestly, that's secondary. The reason a sorcerer wants glitterdust is the mass blind effect. This won't be redundant with the abilities of any non-arcane class, and is really, really good.
Sorcerers need to focus on selecting the spells which enable the most versatile tactics. Darkvision enables more versatile tactics than Glitterdust. Therefore, Darkvision is better.
Not sure I know what you mean by Darkvision enabling "more versatile tactics" - are you providing examples?
???? Oh right! Glitterdust makes invisible enemies visible...forgot about that.
Honestly, that's secondary. The reason a sorcerer wants glitterdust is the mass blind effect. This won't be redundant with the abilities of any non-arcane class, and is really, really good.
That's why I included the second part. Blinding a group is a waste of time in a heavy damage party that rips stuff apart. You can find a better spell than blinding a small group of creatures that are going to die within a round or two.
If you have an archer and a two-hander fighter in your group, not much lives for long. Casting glitterdust is like throwing a grenade prior to the fuel-air bomb hitting. It helps a bit, but stuff is going to die badly anyway.
I prefer to use my 2nd level spell slots in a group like that to add utility. Which is why group composition is important to sorcerer spell selection. You want to have spells that empower your group and provide things that are easier for a spontaneous caster to provide on the fly.
The main advantage of a spontaneous caster is realized at those times when the DM throws a surprise at you and you need a bunch of a certain type of spell to survive an encounter. That is where the spontaneous caster outshines the preparation caster. So I prefer to take defensive/utility spells like resist energy which most casters don't have enough of or gust of wind that no one memorizes or has on hand when those cloud spells start to drop. I've seen a lot of groups messed up by stinking cloud or other cloud spells cast multiple times.
I generally build offense around a theme. If I were playimg a ray caster that had a lot of ranged attacks, glitterdust might be an attractive options for a spell as blindness gives an advantage. If I'm playing a blaster, I could care less about a spell like glitterdust. Everything gets wiped out by what I toss.
I play a lot of sorcerers. I prefer them over wizards. I think they are overall stronger than wizards if you build them well. I should say human sorcerers using the APG human level bonus are stronger than wizards. The extra spells are enough to make a solid enough build to beat almost anything thrown at you. And the added bonuses from powers is better than anything a wizard gets.
The boring part about a wizard is they toss that one spell. If it doesn't work, they're usually screwed. And they can't metamagic on the fly. Whereas a sorcerer keeps on crushing. 95% of what you fight has no means to defend against even a small spell selection.
Sorcerers are definitely the path to take for blaster, mind control, and shapechange builds. No wizard can touch a sorcerer in those three areas of magic.
@OmegaZ: I am really curious, how this Section of Blast/Crowd Control would look like. Why don´t you put it together?
A spell I often overlooked at spell selection is Possess Object. Just think of your group buying a Coach. Your Sorcerer lies in the back and casts the spell. Now your group has a wagon that moves on itself with considerable speed. If you invest all construction points in speed, your wagon can speed your overland movement to 60 ft.
Sure, you may say, that at this caster level (at least 10) you already have teleport at your disposal. But teleport doesn´t allow you the other possible uses of the spell, e.g. :
* You are afflicted with mummy rot. Just skip your mind over to your animated object and suspend the disease until you are at a temple.
* Wow, that is a whole lot of loot... and it weighs way too much to carry it. Take over that large table in the corner, put your body an some loot on it and carry about 1500 ibs. (Str 14 +8 for being large, x3 for being a quadruped)
* Attacked by a waterborne creature and you can´t swim? No Problem! If your ship isn´t the Queen Elizabeth, you can just use the ship as a weapon and slam the sea monster back to where it came from.
* The fighter is down? Need a new tank? Get something big made of stone or metal and stand right into harm´s way!I have a protean sorceress and she will take shrink item at the same moment when she gets possess object. So I can just keep lots of useful objects in my pockets.
Interesting use of a spell combination. I'll have to remember that one.
Darkvision is useless in an all dwarf and half orc party since everyone already has it so it is sensational.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Simply being able to give it to the party scout if they don't have it is HUGE... as essentially there are times when they can't scout for its lack.
It's good for a party scout and *great* if there is only one person in the party without it. It is also worthless in lighted areas or if you have to open a door which covers a huge number of encounters. Also, if there is a wizard or cleric (or alchemist) in the party to cast it you are better off having them cast it because the opportunity cost for them casting it (once) is far lower. Being able to cast 5-6 miscellaneous spells once per day is one of the big strengths of prepared classes.
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Well traveling in any dark situation (night, caves, dungeons) as if you are carrying a light you might as well be singing 'Yoo Hoo Beasties.. Come and Eat Us!'.
We aren't really talking about versatility then are we? In the dark, darkvision is useful, in the light, it isn't.
Here's a tip for everyone while we are on the subject: If you don't want your party to be given away by torchlight/light spells, then use dancing lights.
Have the lights more than 20' in front of the party. The party is still shrouded in darkness but can see ahead. Use remaining lights as additional torchlights that you can group together or move around to increase visible area.
Monsters may still be attracted to the lights, but they are attracted to the wrong position, where they become illuminated for you and your party to see.
Decent use of a zero level spell.
You could always use dancing lights like that.
Dancing Lights?
Most dungeons or indoor encounters don't usually have sufficient distances for dancing lights to provide a significant advantages over a light spell. If enemy creatures have darkvision and your average hallways are 20 to 30 feet, they will still spot you quite easily as soon as you enter their range of vision. dancing lights in front of the party will alert them early to your presence. I can see dancing lights being useful in very particular situations, but not for average use.
The 8 O-lvl spells I take are pretty simple: read magic, detect magic, mending, prestidigitation, mage hand, message, light, and acid splash.
mage hand for item retrival at a distance. Can be very helpful when sifting in water or dangerous substances that you can see through.
prestidigitation: I like to be clean.
light: All purpose longer duration light spell. Can be applied to objects like arrows or the like for searching or putting on multiple people if they have to move away from the central light source.
mending: Good for repair of items even at higher level.
message: Great for constant communication.
acid splash: Good spell that makes it so I don't have to waste a higher level spell to deal with regenerating creatures like trolls or oni.
Those 8 form the core of a sorcerer's repertoire for 0-lvl spells and are highly useful.
I go with only 8 because I've taken to playing cross-blooded sorcerers as they tend to be more powerful than regular sorcerers since Bloodline Arcana is one of the main advantages of the sorcerer.
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Dancing Lights is AWESOME.
However, if you can see by the light the give off.. then those in the far distance can likely see you.
Not necessarily.
Dancing lights creates 4 effects that illuminate as torchlight (20 foot illumination) or lantern light (30 foot illumination)
The spell has medium range which means that a caster could have them up to 110' away at first level.
I wish I could show on a map, but I'll describe instead.
Example:
(edited to match the rules - thanks meabolex)
Consider a 5th level party marching in a narrow hallway single file. Sorcerer in the back, then rogue, cleric and fighter in the front.
Sorcerer casts dancing lights - 4 lantern effects.
The first light he places 35' in front of the fighter. Now the hallway is illuminated 65' in front of the fighter, but the fighter (and the rest of the party) remain in darkness.
The second light is 10' in front of the first. Now there is illumination 75' in front of the fighter.
A troll sees the light and decides that dinner must be close. He looks into the illuminated area and sees nothing. His darkvision does not have the range to see past the illuminated area.
Troll is alerted, but does not know where the party is. The Dancing lights move forward and illuminate the troll. The party knows where the troll is, but the troll still can't see the party.
Tactical advantage: Sorcerer.
If the party had all had darkvision cast on them, the troll would have come into view the same time as the party came into view of the troll. This is an even tactical advantage, except that the Sorcerer is lower on spells.
Dancing Lights?
Most dungeons or indoor encounters don't usually have sufficient distances for dancing lights to provide a significant advantages over a light spell.
Certainly some don't. In those cases, light is just as good as dancing lights and needs to be cast less often (not that casting frequency is a big problem with 0 level spells)
There are even some circumstances where light is better (like casting light to drop into a pit to measure distance) or as you mention, the arrow scenario.
However, you are stating a circumstantial situation. Sometimes it's dark outside, some dungeons have really big rooms, in other words, it is circumstantially true that light can be as tactically advantageous as dancing lights or better, but that's not a good reason not to take the spell.
Take light and dancing lights, drop the acid splash. Seriously, acid flasks are dirt cheap and you don't need them that often.
Meh, one woman's trash is another woman's treasure.
Darkvision is a good example. Generally speaking, you don't cast darkvision on yourself -- you cast it on the rogue or archer or other non-darkvisioned character that needs the ability to be effective. But in a party full of dwarves, yeah it's pretty much garbage.
Sleep is also a great 1st level spell. It needs to be traded out eventually, but its range often beats out color spray.
Treantmonk, I thought dancing lights have to be within 10 feet of each other?
Meh, one woman's trash is another woman's treasure.
Darkvision is a good example. Generally speaking, you don't cast darkvision on yourself -- you cast it on the rogue or archer or other non-darkvisioned character that needs the ability to be effective. But in a party full of dwarves, yeah it's pretty much garbage.
Treantmonk, I thought dancing lights have to be within 10 feet of each other?
You are right. My mistake. Post has been edited to follow the rules. Thanks!
Resist Energy is a great spell, particularly since it scales well with level. If you know what kind of damage you're going to be taking, you pretty much reduce all incoming damage by half.
I'd agree, it is a poor choice at 4-5 level, since your pool of spells known is so small, but after that it can be a good choice, particlarly for a human. By around 8th level, you start to have enough unused 2nd level spell slots every day to make this a worthwhile casting.
That's why I included the second part. Blinding a group is a waste of time in a heavy damage party that rips stuff apart. You can find a better spell than blinding a small group of creatures that are going to die within a round or two.If you have an archer and a two-hander fighter in your group, not much lives for long. Casting glitterdust is like throwing a grenade prior to the fuel-air bomb hitting. It helps a bit, but stuff is going to die badly anyway.
Uhhh....YMMV. I've played in that style of group and I still find it very worthwhile to make creatures blind. That two handed barbarian and ranger archer are gonna end up looking like pincushions when the monsters that survive their onslaught counterattack against their sh*tty AC.
Darkvision's certainly decent, but unless you're the only caster in the group, there's likely at least one other person there who can cast it without wasting incredibly limited 'spells known' slots. Glitterdust, on the other hand, is a spell that, even in damage-heavy groups, I would easily want to use multiple times a day, in two different very-common scenarios.
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You are right. My mistake. Post has been edited to follow the rules. Thanks!Meh, one woman's trash is another woman's treasure.
Darkvision is a good example. Generally speaking, you don't cast darkvision on yourself -- you cast it on the rogue or archer or other non-darkvisioned character that needs the ability to be effective. But in a party full of dwarves, yeah it's pretty much garbage.
Treantmonk, I thought dancing lights have to be within 10 feet of each other?
Hmm, I don't think your edit took. Seems like if there is a 10' spread your best bet is to have to lights spread evenly ahead of you.
I think a good tactic with something like this would be to combine dancing lights with something like silent image to give enemies something else to think about.
You see 4 empty lights bobbing down the corridor you think "Hmm, must be a wizard somewhere near here." You see four figures with torches and there is a big lighted area with them you don't start wondering where the wizard is.
light: All purpose longer duration light spell. Can be applied to objects like arrows or the like for searching or putting on multiple people if they have to move away from the central light source.
You can only have one light cast at a time, but good ideas otherwise.
Exerpt from light in the PHB
You can only have one light spell active at any one time. If you cast this spell while another casting is still in effect, the previous casting is dispelled. If you make this spell permanent (through permanency or a similar effect), it does not count against this limit. Light can be used to counter or dispel any darkness spell of equal or lower spell level.
The first light he places 35' in front of the fighter. Now the hallway is illuminated 65' in front of the fighter, but the fighter (and the rest of the party) remain in darkness.
The only problem with this is that lanterns give off an area of dim light that reaches 60 feet. So the party is actually in dim light, which gives them some concealment and would allow them to stealth. But to say that they are in total darkness is incorrect.
The first light he places 35' in front of the fighter. Now the hallway is illuminated 65' in front of the fighter, but the fighter (and the rest of the party) remain in darkness.The only problem with this is that lanterns give off an area of dim light that reaches 60 feet. So the party is actually in dim light, which gives them some concealment and would allow them to stealth. But to say that they are in total darkness is incorrect.
You could get the complete concealment if you want. Instead the dancing lights should be placed 65' in front of the fighter (and a second 75' in front) to get complete darkness at the party.
Then you have illumination from 35' to 105' in front of the party, and dim illumination from 5' to 135' in front of the party.
took. Seems like if there is a 10' spread your best bet is to have to lights spread evenly ahead of you.
The edit took.
The dancing lights do not need to be in 10' of you, they need to be within 10' of each other. Each one illuminating as a lantern and floating far enough in front of you so that they don't illuminate you.
The distance illuminated is significantly greater than the range of darkvision, allowing you to see enemies before they see you.
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The edit took.took. Seems like if there is a 10' spread your best bet is to have to lights spread evenly ahead of you.
That is weird, when I said that I was looking at your post and it was talking about lights trailing behind the caster as well. I must have just crossed posts with yours.
That is weird, when I said that I was looking at your post and it was talking about lights trailing behind the caster as well. I must have just crossed posts with yours.The edit took.took. Seems like if there is a 10' spread your best bet is to have to lights spread evenly ahead of you.
Yeah, that was before the edit.
If you want to illuminate behind you I guess you could maybe do something with mage hand plus a torch or something.
Depending on the situation though, often illuminating behind you isn't necessary.
The point I'm making is that Darkvision is not necessarily always tactically superior to lighting up the place. The Darkness spell changes that though.
Personally I think the shadow spells not being mentioned is a big omission.
Shadow Conjuration(&Greater)
Shadow Evocation(&Greater)
These are incredible tools for sorcerers. You get a huge list of spells available for one spell known (each). Talk about economy. That deal is about impossible to beat.
Heck, let's just look at the list of 'want' spells:
Grease
Glitterdust
Web
all are provided by one spell slot. Now granted, now they offer extra saves, but any side effect will still work (glitterdust will still reveal enemies, web and grease will still be obstructed terrain).
Heck the amount of options these spells open up is huge. I can't imagine skipping them on a sorcerer.
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Regarding darkvision, this is one of those areas I would put the onus on the normal vision player except in rare circumstances. If you are a human higher than 5th level, no matter your class, you should have a potion, ring, wand or scroll you put in the hands of someone who can use (UMD or otherwise), that allows you to see in the dark. Every melee and rogue should have a fly, levitate, spider climb, inviso, some sort of "get the hell out" method that doesn't rely on a sorcerer. Stuff is cheap to make and buy, so unless you GM is diabolical or a big tightwad on treasure, it should not fall on the sorcerer, wizard, etc to burn their valuable resources providing for party members who should be providing for themselves. Same goes for fighters, it shouldn't fall on them to stand back and guard the wizard/cleric/druid during combat. At lower levels you can't expect this, but I think its reasonable to expect once the resources are available.
Obviously in an AP, set dungeon, etc you don't always get the ability to provision yourself, but I don't think most home games prevent this preparation.
On the other hand, maybe I just expect too much out of the average player...
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Dancing Lights isn't a good replacement for Darkvision except in some very limited cases (particularly when confident that the party doesn't have to worry about human level intelligence enemies).We aren't really talking about versatility then are we? In the dark, darkvision is useful, in the light, it isn't.
Here's a tip for everyone while we are on the subject: If you don't want your party to be given away by torchlight/light spells, then use dancing lights
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Decent use of a zero level spell.
No-one is disputing that darkvision is great in certain situations, but the number of situations where it really shines just aren't common enough to make it worth carrying around when you don't need it. It's sort of like a ranger taking favored enemy (dragon). It's great 'sometimes', but unless you know you are bumping into dragons a lot, there are far better choices out there.
Dancing lights is not as good as darkvision, it's also two spell levels lower, a non-depletable resource, and your alternatives for cantrips that do cool stuff is quite limited. Darkvision takes up a valuable spell slot which can be put to use with things which all useful ALL THE TIME. For the majority of players dancing lights is not 'as good as darkvision', it's far far better, because it does the job and allows you to have something else that's useful every day in that second level slot.
A few questions here: Is the party traveling in the dark? It seems like they are.
Then you have illumination from 35' to 105' in front of the party, and dim illumination from 5' to 135' in front of the party.
Yes, the squares that the party are in are all dark, so half movement and all that.
Is the party traveling walking side by side (and thus all in the front rank)?
In the example I described a single file line.
Are you meaning this to be a reasonable method for handling this, or a poor man's cure/solution?
Depends on the situation. It's always a poor man's solution, but it's often a reasonable way to handle darkness, depending on circumstances.
The core reason we're discussing either of these spells is that light (torches or the like) give away one's location.
The core question to ask is whether or not the kinds of creatures one is going to be most regularly going up against are smart enough to realize that there's nothing holding the torch/won't call an alarm just on the basis of seeing a torch at all.
Most creatures are going to notice that nobody is holding the torches.
That doesn't give away the party's location. All the creature will know, regardless of int, is where the party isn't (not in the illuminated area).
In order for the creature to find where the party is, they would need to enter the illuminated area first, so when they discover the party, the party has already discovered them. That's basically the goal of the tactic.
It's not about tricking the enemy to think you aren't there, or to think you are somewhere you are not. The point is to completely eliminate the tactical advantage of darkvision (assuming you are going to fight these creatures anyways), by ensuring that in order to locate you, they must become illuminated.
Against such smarter creatures, dancing lights is not a replacement for darkvision.
Using light and darkness for tactical advantage is a very different strategy than casting darkvision several times and then hoping the enemies don't have 120' darkvision (and thus gain full tactical advantage when they see you and you don't see them.)
Both strategies are superior circumstantially, but the "cast and hope" strategy uses up more resources.
IF the creatures a PC regularly runs into are dumb as a rock (ie. don't call up an alarm based on the fact that they see a torch and don't think it's odd that they see nothing attached to the torch)
There is an alarm and reinforcements to call? That's handy.
Note that even if this happens, the enemies still don't know where the party is, they just know where they aren't.
then dancing lights are superior to darkvision.
The advantage of Darkvision is you don't have any light that could give away your party.
The advantage of light is you get to see your enemies before they can see you (unless they are invisible or something). (not counting it not using anything but cantrips)
The first does not always trump the second.