While it would not be an exact fix, I would make a feat like this:
"Curse of the Bloodline"
Requires: Suffers from Oracle curse, has Bloodline class feature
Benefit: Oracle curse abilities are calculated as arcane level + oracle level. Bloodline abilities are calculated as arcane level + oracle level.This would easily solve the problem and not change the single class version.
I loved the idea of the multiclass feats.
Just a thought.
One of the DM's I play with basically replaced most of the 10 level prestige classes that were designed only to cater to people with two classes (like MT or AT) with 5 level PrCs and a feat that lets them add the 1/2 of their levels in a given class to 1/2 of their levels in another for the purpose of spell acquisition (or other features), and full level for the purpose of CL.
I liked the solution and would probably apply it here.
If anyone has trouble understanding it, the simplest way would be an example...
Sorcerer6/Oracle6 casts spells as a Sorcerer9/Oracle9. Has a caster level of 12 for both. I'd probably just add a note that oracle curse advances as well.
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Zurai, apology accepted and for what it's worth, it mostly got under my skin because I asked for civility and then felt attacked for using my cellphone to make posts, where I can barely even see the punctuation. For what it's worth if the insult wasn't intended the way it was taken I apologize for directly insulting you in response.
Anyways, I was wondering if instead of making it character level dependent we instead make the curses progressive.
I.E. instead of just giving a bad penalty right from the get go, both the penalty and the benefit grow with level, that way you could also judge the strength of an oracle based on the level of their weakness.
so for example rather than starting out with 30ft vision and ending up with 60' vision and blindsense. You instead start with a perception -5 penalty and darkvision 30'. Then when you hit level 5 your vision reduces to the 60' range and your darkvision extends to match that distance but you no longer take a penalty to perception within your range of vision. Then at 10th level your vision restricts to 15' but you get blindsight out to thirty. And then it ends with you going blind, but you gain blindsense out to 15'
With deaf same thing, you start with a -3 penalty to perception (and can we please stop attempting to seperate perception by sight and sound and instead treat your perception score as the accumulated ability to notice things with your 5 senses?) and gain sign language as a bonus language. At 5th level this penalty increases to -5 and you gain scent. At tenth level you cannot make perception checks to notice invisible creatures but gain tremorsense out to 15 feet. and at 15th level your penalty to perception increases to -10 and you are now completely deaf, however all spells cast by your character are modified as if by the silent spell feat this however does not increase the spell level.
For lame, start with a negative 5 penalty to movement instead of -10. At 5th level difficult terrain costs you triple instead of double. At 10th level your movement penalty increases to -10 feet (small characters and dwarves do not gain a penalty to move speed but instead take a -2 to initiative). at 15th you cannot take a 5 foot step.
For haunted it would start with just the penalty of a move action to draw any stored item, for the spells gained. at 5th level whenever you drop anything, it lands 5 feet away, gain spells, at 10th it lands ten feet away, add spells, at 15th level whenever you are bullrushed or overrun, you move an additional 10ft as the spirits drag you along. in the case of bullrush this movement is in the same direction the enemy moves you, in the instance of overrun it is in a random direction.
For wasting, just start with a -1 and progress to a -4 with each increase.
Tounges is the hard one, however lets try. keep level 5 the same. at 5th level you gain an additional language, however you speak a pigdin of the two languages, anyone who speaks one but not both languages must make a DC 10 linguistics check to understand you every time you speak, this check can be made untrained. No check is needed if both languages are known. at level 10 you gain the listed benefit, and you choose another language to speak during combat. A character who speaks all three languages can understand you however if only two are known it requires a DC10 linguistics check and if only one language is known a DC15 check. at 15th level you can speak and understand any language, however your speach during combat becomes an indecipherable pigdin of all known languages.
We must be looking at different curses, about the only one worth the drawbacks for dipping a level in oracle is the language one. I really don't see anyone dipping for that. deaf isn't worth it, clouded vision isn't worth it, Lame isn't worth it, haunted you can't even use the spells known so how is that not already internally balanced. wasting may be worth it if you're playing a non-charismatic character, but really what I've seen is no ability worth the drawbacks.
The only really painful ones (IMO) are Clouded Vision, Deaf, and Lame. Haunted, Tongues and Wasting are pretty minor inconveniences (certainly no worse than saying "druids can't use metal armor" or "paladins can't lie or cheat", for instance).
I removed some inflamed posts.
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LastKnightLeft:
Very interesting idea. I like it both in theory, and with the specific numbers you've laid out, at least on a read (have to seem them in playtest, obviously). It makes sense in-game, too, the more they channel the power, they more it affects them. Hopefully we can get Jason's attention and see his opinion on it.
plus it limits the direct damage to characters who only take 3-4 levels of oracle since they don't get a front loaded penalty with a minor benefit but rather a minor penalty and a minor benefit and the flavor of oracle curses remain.
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We must be looking at different curses, about the only one worth the drawbacks for dipping a level in oracle is the language one. I really don't see anyone dipping for that. deaf isn't worth it, clouded vision isn't worth it, Lame isn't worth it, haunted you can't even use the spells known so how is that not already internally balanced. wasting may be worth it if you're playing a non-charismatic character, but really what I've seen is no ability worth the drawbacks.The only really painful ones (IMO) are Clouded Vision, Deaf, and Lame. Haunted, Tongues and Wasting are pretty minor inconveniences (certainly no worse than saying "druids can't use metal armor" or "paladins can't lie or cheat", for instance).
by the way I wasn't just talking about the drawbacks of the curse but also the drawbacks of not progressing in your current classes abilities.
by the way I wasn't just talking about the drawbacks of the curse but also the drawbacks of not progressing in your current classes abilities.We must be looking at different curses, about the only one worth the drawbacks for dipping a level in oracle is the language one. I really don't see anyone dipping for that. deaf isn't worth it, clouded vision isn't worth it, Lame isn't worth it, haunted you can't even use the spells known so how is that not already internally balanced. wasting may be worth it if you're playing a non-charismatic character, but really what I've seen is no ability worth the drawbacks.The only really painful ones (IMO) are Clouded Vision, Deaf, and Lame. Haunted, Tongues and Wasting are pretty minor inconveniences (certainly no worse than saying "druids can't use metal armor" or "paladins can't lie or cheat", for instance).
It seemed like you were referring specifically to curses in the quote above. But even if you expand it to abilities in general not being worth it, there are some spiffy revelations available at level 1 (Surprising Charge, Cinder Dance, Fluid Nature) that are on a par with a good clerical domain.
If you're talking about multiclassing being less useful for spellcasters in general, that's a well-known bug/feature of 3.X D&D.
Director of Brand Strategy
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by the way I wasn't just talking about the drawbacks of the curse but also the drawbacks of not progressing in your current classes abilities.
that's true any time you multiclass, though. If you multiclass into monk, wizard, or sorcerer, you don't progress in your first class AND you'd better not wear armor after that. If you multiclass into paladin, you lose at least a level of your main class's progression AND you now have a code of conduct and alignment restriction. Not all classes have drawbacks, like rogue or ranger, but multiclassing always has the "penalty" of not progressing in the other class's abilities.
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My player has the lame curse, which means if I implement this to playtest it out, he'll go from a 10ft penalty (which does hurt his character considering he is unarmored) to a 5ft penalty which while it's always painful to be slowed down isn't as bad a penalty, unfortunately that also means that I don't get to see how it works in the long run (like i would if he were straight oracle). However as far as multi-classing a progressive curse makes for a much less painful blow if you do decide you only want to add some oracle abilities because it fits your character while still making oracle curses an important facet of the oracle.