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I looked at the multi-classing section of PHB and I can't find anywhere that it says you cannot take the same class more than once. Obviously they levels would not stack for oracle level based abilities, but could you be both the Oracle of Battle and the Oracle of Flame for instance? Kind of like 2 Concepts either agreeing to use you as a conduit together or trying to fight each other for your favor? It would be kind of a cool concept if your character was the battleground for 2 opposing Foci, each trying to bribe/cajole/woo the character into following their paradigm.
I looked at the multi-classing section of PHB and I can't find anywhere that it says you cannot take the same class more than once. Obviously they levels would not stack for oracle level based abilities, but could you be both the Oracle of Battle and the Oracle of Flame for instance? Kind of like 2 Concepts either agreeing to use you as a conduit together or trying to fight each other for your favor? It would be kind of a cool concept if your character was the battleground for 2 opposing Foci, each trying to bribe/cajole/woo the character into following their paradigm.
I dont think i would stop someone from doing this. If they are that interested in the idea. But you then hit the big primary caster multiclassing problem, so spell casting would be extremely weak. You would really have to enjoy the role play or make something magical work out of the two foci.
I looked at the multi-classing section of PHB and I can't find anywhere that it says you cannot take the same class more than once. Obviously they levels would not stack for oracle level based abilities, but could you be both the Oracle of Battle and the Oracle of Flame for instance? Kind of like 2 Concepts either agreeing to use you as a conduit together or trying to fight each other for your favor? It would be kind of a cool concept if your character was the battleground for 2 opposing Foci, each trying to bribe/cajole/woo the character into following their paradigm.
Isn't that a bit like trying to play cleric of Y and Cleric X? I'd say there would be a big no-go on that one, but that is not the same as I don't see your point. These kind of questions hdo have a tendency to make my head hurt... Dunno why.. ;-)
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I looked at the multi-classing section of PHB and I can't find anywhere that it says you cannot take the same class more than once. Obviously they levels would not stack for oracle level based abilities, but could you be both the Oracle of Battle and the Oracle of Flame for instance? Kind of like 2 Concepts either agreeing to use you as a conduit together or trying to fight each other for your favor? It would be kind of a cool concept if your character was the battleground for 2 opposing Foci, each trying to bribe/cajole/woo the character into following their paradigm.Isn't that a bit like trying to play cleric of Y and Cleric X? I'd say there would be a big no-go on that one, but that is not the same as I don't see your point. These kind of questions hdo have a tendency to make my head hurt... Dunno why.. ;-)
Not quite. In the clerics case you specifically choose to worship 2 deities... which is kind of odd, though I'd allow it for deities in the same pantheon with non-conflicting goals. However, with an oracle you are being chosen by the gods to uphold a set ideal or concept. Since it doesn't have anything to do with a conscious choice on your part, it seems reasonable that 2 sets of deities could choose you to either A. be a part of their ongoing feud, or B. Uphold both concepts or ideals. it isn't your choice, it's the gods.
And yeah, I wasn't trying to min-max or anything. It should be appreciably less powerful than a full level oracle. However, it seemed like an interesting RP mechanic.
It's too bad you can't dual class in the same class. I would love to play a ranger/ranger that focuses on archery and two weapon fighting.
It's too bad you can't dual class in the same class. I would love to play a ranger/ranger that focuses on archery and two weapon fighting.Simple. pick one combat style and then spend feats for the other. And make sure you play Human because you'll need every feat slot you can get.
Don't humans only get one extra feat?
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I looked at the multi-classing section of PHB and I can't find anywhere that it says you cannot take the same class more than once. Obviously they levels would not stack for oracle level based abilities, but could you be both the Oracle of Battle and the Oracle of Flame for instance? Kind of like 2 Concepts either agreeing to use you as a conduit together or trying to fight each other for your favor? It would be kind of a cool concept if your character was the battleground for 2 opposing Foci, each trying to bribe/cajole/woo the character into following their paradigm.There's a reason why it's called a FOCUS. It's basically a form of divinely induced monomania.
So, you're saying 2 different groups of deities couldn't induce the same effect in one person? I don't think that's a reasonable assertion.
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So, you're saying 2 different groups of deities couldn't induce the same effect in one person? I don't think that's a reasonable assertion.I looked at the multi-classing section of PHB and I can't find anywhere that it says you cannot take the same class more than once. Obviously they levels would not stack for oracle level based abilities, but could you be both the Oracle of Battle and the Oracle of Flame for instance? Kind of like 2 Concepts either agreeing to use you as a conduit together or trying to fight each other for your favor? It would be kind of a cool concept if your character was the battleground for 2 opposing Foci, each trying to bribe/cajole/woo the character into following their paradigm.There's a reason why it's called a FOCUS. It's basically a form of divinely induced monomania.
Its not the deity that induces the effect, its the person who develops it for themselves. (At least in my understanding of the class)
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Its not the deity that induces the effect, its the person who develops it for themselves. (At least in my understanding of the class)So, you're saying 2 different groups of deities couldn't induce the same effect in one person? I don't think that's a reasonable assertion.I looked at the multi-classing section of PHB and I can't find anywhere that it says you cannot take the same class more than once. Obviously they levels would not stack for oracle level based abilities, but could you be both the Oracle of Battle and the Oracle of Flame for instance? Kind of like 2 Concepts either agreeing to use you as a conduit together or trying to fight each other for your favor? It would be kind of a cool concept if your character was the battleground for 2 opposing Foci, each trying to bribe/cajole/woo the character into following their paradigm.There's a reason why it's called a FOCUS. It's basically a form of divinely induced monomania.
These divine vessels are granted power without their choice, selected by providence to wield powers that even they do not fully understand
Doesn't really sound like the poor schmuck got much of a choice about it or understands it enough to really try to develop it beyond what the gods grant them.
Others might not agree, but at my table I would have to say "no". While some might argue the game mechanics don't specifically forbid it, the Roleplaying aspects for me make it a big taboo.
My reasoning is based on the fact that divine classes are so much more to a character than a simple career choice. To be a Paladin, Cleric or Oracle means that a deity has invested enough thought into a character as to decide to allow said character to be a vessel for the deity's divine power. There are many clergy members around the world, but not all of them are able to actually channel the power of the deity they worship. I don't see divine power as a communal pool each divine class dips into, but rather a power granted directly and personally by the gods themselves. Albeit in a (usually) non-personal manner.
To be chosen for such a specific role as to basically be the deity's earthly messenger takes an incredible devotion and dedication to the god's agenda and alignment. At my table I won't even allow differing alignment from a divine classes patron deity. Unless the character is very strictly in line with the belief system of his chosen deity, the deity wouldn't even consider granting spells.
I'm very specific even about multi-classing within these classes. Why would a deity continue to power the spells of a character who no longer follows their path with the purest devotion? The only multi-class cleric we have at our table is a cleric who follows the path of the bard so as to sing the praises of his goddess. Even the secondary classes must somehow be in line with following the tenets of faith.
Well, that's my reasoning, but as I said earlier, some GM's might not be as hard-nosed about as I am.
It's too bad you can't dual class in the same class. I would love to play a ranger/ranger that focuses on archery and two weapon fighting.
I can see it now, every time someone want's a saves boost they don't take iron will they take level 1 monk over and over again.
*Wizard walks into rent-a-merc looking for a meat shield*
Wizard: What're you?
dwarf: L1 dwarven monk/X20
Wizard: How fast are you?
monk: 20 ft move speed
wizard: Aren't monks supposed to be fast?
monk: I said 20.
wizard: How're your saves?
monk: +40 base.. and I'm a dwarf
wizard: How's your BAB?
monk: 0
wizard: Ok. Bye. *tries to find a fighter*
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Others might not agree, but at my table I would have to say "no". While some might argue the game mechanics don't specifically forbid it, the Roleplaying aspects for me make it a big taboo.
My reasoning is based on the fact that divine classes are so much more to a character than a simple career choice. To be a Paladin, Cleric or Oracle means that a deity has invested enough thought into a character as to decide to allow said character to be a vessel for the deity's divine power. There are many clergy members around the world, but not all of them are able to actually channel the power of the deity they worship. I don't see divine power as a communal pool each divine class dips into, but rather a power granted directly and personally by the gods themselves. Albeit in a (usually) non-personal manner.
To be chosen for such a specific role as to basically be the deity's earthly messenger takes an incredible devotion and dedication to the god's agenda and alignment. At my table I won't even allow differing alignment from a divine classes patron deity. Unless the character is very strictly in line with the belief system of his chosen deity, the deity wouldn't even consider granting spells.
I'm very specific even about multi-classing within these classes. Why would a deity continue to power the spells of a character who no longer follows their path with the purest devotion? The only multi-class cleric we have at our table is a cleric who follows the path of the bard so as to sing the praises of his goddess. Even the secondary classes must somehow be in line with following the tenets of faith.
Well, that's my reasoning, but as I said earlier, some GM's might not be as hard-nosed about as I am.
I completely agree with you about Clerics/Paladins and Druids. They gain their power from a steadfast dedication to their deity. However, here is where we differ. I see nothing in the Oracle description to suggest a steadfast devotion to a deity or concept is required. What I do see suggests that the Oracle is thrust into divine power whether he wants it or not. It doesn't matter what the Oracle wants, what the Oracle thinks about his predicament. He is imbued with his power by the gods and who are mere mortals to question their decision? Who knows why the gods( yes, plural as Oracles don't worship any particular deity ) chose that particular mortal to imbue with their power? Certainly not the Oracle. I can even see the Oracle being extremely upset at the deities who have so changed his life. He never asked for it and he gets saddled with a curse to boot. I can see the Oracle being very upset with the deities who imbued him with power. I seriously doubt a newly empowered Oracle wakes up and goes "Yey! I always wanted to be be blind!" Or "Sweet! My skin now falls off my body in chunks!" Either of which could strain any relationships they are currently in.
My point is that Oracles are chosen by the gods rather than the rest of the divine classes where they choose the god.
I see your point and it's definately food for thought. I do see the Oracle as a chosen tool other than being a devoted servant. For my table it still would be the same as I wrote earlier. I guess personal choice just wouldn't be the driving factor here, but an unwelcome upheaval of a characters life. Still translating for my group as a singular deity's influence on an earthly vessal. And gods don't like to share their toys.
The idea of different gods vying for control is a great plot device, but I would probably implement it in other ways than a multi-class Oracle/Oracle.
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I see your point and it's definately food for thought. I do see the Oracle as a chosen tool other than being a devoted servant. For my table it still would be the same as I wrote earlier. I guess personal choice just wouldn't be the driving factor here, but an unwelcome upheaval of a characters life. Still translating for my group as a singular deity's influence on an earthly vessal. And gods don't like to share their toys.
The idea of different gods vying for control is a great plot device, but I would probably implement it in other ways than a multi-class Oracle/Oracle.
:) yeah. I just like the RP concept.
I'd like to multiclass fighter/fighter/fighter/fighter/etc. so I can get a bonus combat feat at every level. :p
Honestly, I don't think a Fighterx20 would be a stronger character than a Fighter 20. Not in Pathfinder, anyway; it might not even be better in 3.5. In Pathfinder you actually lose class features for going that way, and weapon training is huge from a statistical standpoint. Also, you'd never qualify for Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Critical Mastery, etc etc (which is why it might not be better in 3.5).
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So, you're saying 2 different groups of deities couldn't induce the same effect in one person? I don't think that's a reasonable assertion.There are certain things that dieties just don't do because it would put them into direct conflict. To me that would be one of them. It's a major deal when dealing with a powerful character and lowbies aren't just worth the bother.
I'm less than fond of cheese concepts so finding a reason to deny them is never that hard for me.
Great. Now explain why the concept is a "cheese" concept? Please? I don't see any real benefit for advancing 2 different oracle foci. You've got 2 curses, both of which would depend on your oracle lvl that attained that curse in order to get "better". Seems like it's more of a nerf concept than a "cheese" concept.
It's too bad you can't dual class in the same class. I would love to play a ranger/ranger that focuses on archery and two weapon fighting.I can see it now, every time someone want's a saves boost they don't take iron will they take level 1 monk over and over again.
*Wizard walks into rent-a-merc looking for a meat shield*
Wizard: What're you?
dwarf: L1 dwarven monk/X20Wizard: How fast are you?
monk: 20 ft move speedwizard: Aren't monks supposed to be fast?
monk: I said 20.wizard: How're your saves?
monk: +40 base.. and I'm a dwarfwizard: How's your BAB?
monk: 0wizard: Ok. Bye. *tries to find a fighter*
or a 1st level of fighter at every level, you'd have a +20BAB, +40 Fort saves, and 20 feats, and +0 will and reflex saves.
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or a 1st level of fighter at every level, you'd have a +20BAB, +40 Fort saves, and 20 feats, and +0 will and reflex saves.It's too bad you can't dual class in the same class. I would love to play a ranger/ranger that focuses on archery and two weapon fighting.I can see it now, every time someone want's a saves boost they don't take iron will they take level 1 monk over and over again.
*Wizard walks into rent-a-merc looking for a meat shield*
Wizard: What're you?
dwarf: L1 dwarven monk/X20Wizard: How fast are you?
monk: 20 ft move speedwizard: Aren't monks supposed to be fast?
monk: I said 20.wizard: How're your saves?
monk: +40 base.. and I'm a dwarfwizard: How's your BAB?
monk: 0wizard: Ok. Bye. *tries to find a fighter*
Yeah, that would be great. Right up until a first level wizard cast charm person. Or a cleric casts command/dominate/hold person... etc.
Yeah, that would be great. Right up until a first level wizard cast charm person. Or a cleric casts command/dominate/hold person... etc.or a 1st level of fighter at every level, you'd have a +20BAB, +40 Fort saves, and 20 feats, and +0 will and reflex saves.It's too bad you can't dual class in the same class. I would love to play a ranger/ranger that focuses on archery and two weapon fighting.I can see it now, every time someone want's a saves boost they don't take iron will they take level 1 monk over and over again.
*Wizard walks into rent-a-merc looking for a meat shield*
Wizard: What're you?
dwarf: L1 dwarven monk/X20Wizard: How fast are you?
monk: 20 ft move speedwizard: Aren't monks supposed to be fast?
monk: I said 20.wizard: How're your saves?
monk: +40 base.. and I'm a dwarfwizard: How's your BAB?
monk: 0wizard: Ok. Bye. *tries to find a fighter*
well a first level wizard still only has like a 50/50 chance, but yes it would be very silly and i'd laugh in the face of any dm that allowed such a monstrosity.
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I looked at the multi-classing section of PHB and I can't find anywhere that it says you cannot take the same class more than once.You can't take the same class twice per RAW.
This; even if it were not denied by RAW, I wouldn't personally ever allow it (for the reasons outlined above by other posters).