Hi folks,
Looks like there are 3 basic ways to separate the list(s) of melee attacks in the Bestiary.... "commas" / "or" / "and".
I want to make sure I understand the significance of each. I know,this is basic stuff but I gotta make sure....
1. When attacks are separated by commas, it’s a listing of all available attacks in a full round action. For example, in the Bestiary Preview the dire ape is listed as:
- Melee: bite +6 (1d6+4), 2 claws +6 (1d4+4)
- As a full round action the dire ape can make 3 attacks. 1 bite at +6 and 2 claw attacks at +6.
- As a standard action the dire amp can only make 1 attack. I assume the bite is primary since it's listed first. That 1 attack is at +6.
- Correct?
2. When listed attacks are separated by the word "or", its showing the choice of all available attacks in a full round action. For example, in the Bestiary Preview a skeleton is listed as:
- Melee: broken scimitar +0 (1d6), claw -3 (1d4+1) OR 2 claws +2 (1d4+2)
- As a full round action, the skeleton can make 2 attacks. Either scimitar + claw OR 2 claws.
- As a standard action, the skeleton makes 1 attack. In this case, I assume the scimitar is the primary attack.
- Correct?
3. Finally, some monsters have attacks that are listed using the word "and". I could not find a suitable entry in the Preview and I don't have my core Bestiary with me but I do remember that the Ettercap has the word "and" listed between its attacks. For now let's assume that the Ettercap entry is as follows:
- Melee: 2 claws and 1 bite.
- What's the difference between "2 claws, 1 bite" and "2 claws and 1 bite"? Seems to me that the "comma" and the word "and" mean the same thing??
Thanks in advance!
- As a standard action the dire amp can only make 1 attack.
I'm sorry. I have to.
You know the what the difference is between a normal one and a dire one is, right? The dire amp goes to 11.
My apologies. But seriously, great question and I want to know the answer.
Hahaha....yep, deserved that one!
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- As a standard action the dire amp can only make 1 attack. I assume the bite is primary since it's listed first. That 1 attack is at +6.
- Correct?
Partially correct. Standard action to make one attack but you can choose either the bite or the claw. Both are considered "primary" attacks. This is why the -5 penalty does not apply to the claw attacks in a full round attack.
- Melee: broken scimitar +0 (1d6), claw -3 (1d4+1) OR 2 claws +2 (1d4+2)- As a full round action, the skeleton can make 2 attacks. Either scimitar + claw OR 2 claws.
- As a standard action, the skeleton makes 1 attack. In this case, I assume the scimitar is the primary attack.
- Correct?
Again mostly correct. The reason the skeleton doesn't get the second claw attack in the first spread is because the claw is holding the scimitar. If it could somehow hold the scimitar without a hand(claw) it would get 2 claw attacks with a full attack.
As to the second question, the skeleton could choose either the scimitar or claw to attack and it would be at full bonus.
- What's the difference between "2 claws, 1 bite" and "2 claws and 1 bite"? Seems to me that the "comma" and the word "and" mean the same thing??
Correct. As far as I can tell it's a cosmetic difference.
Crystal clear Alizor, many thanks!!
Creative Director
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There is no difference between "2 claws, 1 bite" and "2 claws and 1 bite."
And the order in which attacks are listed has no bearing on primary or secondary attacks; the type of attack determines if it's a primary attack or secondary attack (see page 302 of the Bestiary). The happy result of linking an attack's status as a primary or secondary attack to the TYPE of attack rather than the order in which they're generally listed is that a monster's various attack rolls no longer change depending on if it's making a full attack action or a single standard attack with only one natural weapon.
The happy result of linking an attack's status as a primary or secondary attack to the TYPE of attackWow, I never noticed that until now. Thanks, I like this a lot.
Yeah, never noticed it either but it sure makes sense now!
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- As a standard action the dire amp can only make 1 attack.I'm sorry. I have to.
You know the what the difference is between a normal one and a dire one is, right? The dire amp goes to 11.
My apologies. But seriously, great question and I want to know the answer.
When most amps get to 10, well, that's it, they're rocking as hard as they can.
But when we turn our dire amps up to 10 - well, we still have 1 more left to go!
In newspapers a comma is commonly used in place of the word "AND" in headlines. I believe due to space issues. Typically between names and usually in the sports section.
Ex: Comcast, Verizon report jumps in activity during Phillies games
Ex: Phoenixville gets healthy, shuts out Perk Valley
This question might sound silly, but, a Feral Troll that moves gets how many attacks?
This came up in last night's Pathfinder RPG game.
Can't find a Pathfinder Feral Troll nor a 3.5 Feral Troll, so assuming you mean the "norma" Troll. Regardless of monster, if a monster moves (spends a move action) it can normally take only a standard action and this means only one attack. In case of a "normal" troll: one bite attack or one claw attack (and thus No rend attack).