Trapfinding question

[Ardenup]

Trapfinding description says your add 1/2 your level to perception checks to find traps. Your TOTAL level or rogue levels? (for multiclassed rogue.)

Cheers.

[Lokie]

Ardenup wrote:

Trapfinding description says your add 1/2 your level to perception checks to find traps. Your TOTAL level or rogue levels? (for multiclassed rogue.)

Cheers.

Pathfinder goes with levels of the class you got the ability in. Its a rule designed to reward you for sticking with your class.

[A Man In Black]

Lokie wrote:

Pathfinder goes with levels of the class you got the ability in. Its a rule designed to reward you for sticking with your class.

Actually, it's a 3e rule dating back to 3.0 that if a class ability says "Your level" it is assumed that it means "Your class level" unless context obviously dictates otherwise.

[Alizor]

As above: generally unless the ability specifically says character level, it assumes class level.

[Lokie]

The conversion document was rather specific on class level over character level... for the reason I described above.

[A Man In Black]

Lokie wrote:

The conversion document was rather specific on class level over character level... for the reason I described above.

Well, then it was pretty poorly considered.

Either traps are balanced based on a rogue with capped skill searching for them, or they are balanced based on a fooist with capped skill searching for them.

Even at level 10, that's a five-point swing, which means either the fooist sucks or the rogue is never challenged. At level 20, it's a 10 point swing, which means that one or the other has been completely pushed off the RNG.

Granted, 3e trapfinding is such a completely retarded game mechanic that nothing like this can really foul it up any worse, but the upshot is that either trapfinding completely negates traps or that by mid-levels you need a single-class rogue or you're clearing traps with someone's face.

[Ardenup]

Thanks.

[Lokie]

A Man In Black wrote:

Lokie wrote:

The conversion document was rather specific on class level over character level... for the reason I described above.

Well, then it was pretty poorly considered.

Either traps are balanced based on a rogue with capped skill searching for them, or they are balanced based on a fooist with capped skill searching for them.

Even at level 10, that's a five-point swing, which means either the fooist sucks or the rogue is never challenged. At level 20, it's a 10 point swing, which means that one or the other has been completely pushed off the RNG.

Granted, 3e trapfinding is such a completely retarded game mechanic that nothing like this can really foul it up any worse, but the upshot is that either trapfinding completely negates traps or that by mid-levels you need a single-class rogue or you're clearing traps with someone's face.

Not exactly sure were you are going with this...

Pathfinder skill system allows for pretty much anybody to find mechanical traps now. Only rogues have the ability with "trapfinding" to actually find magical traps.

A rogue just has a easier time of it because you have your rogue level as a bonus to your perception checks to find traps.

However, Perception (being search, spot, listen, etc, all rolled into one) is wisdom based and not something your standard rogue has a high stat in. (Unlike rogues with high INT mods) So this class bonus just helps to make up for that lack.

It honestly makes sense that a straight rogue should be able to find traps better than a multi-class rogue fighter.

I admit however that I myself have yet to REALLY play or read up on the Trap DC's and mechanics for the PRPG rule-set having only just skimmed it.

[Lokie]

Ardenup wrote:

Thanks.

Hope we were of some help.

[James Risner]

Alizor wrote:

As above: generally unless the ability specifically says character level, it assumes class level.

That is the purpose of "Character Level" instead of "Class Level."

Class Level is limited to only the levels in the class, while Character Level works for each Hit Dice.

[Timky Tangletoe]

I have a semantics question along this vein... The Trapfinding description says your add 1/2 your level to Perception checks to find traps AND to Disable Device skill checks.

So, if you're rolling Perception to do anything other than find a trap, you don't get your bonus. If you're (or your GM is) rolling Perception to see if you find a trap, you DO get the bonus. Very cut and dry.

However, the bonus to Disable Device seems to apply to ALL uses of the skill. It seems the author was very careful to limit the use of Perception, but NOT Disable Device. So, if you're using Disable Device to jam a lock or sabotage a wagon wheel, your bonus applies, even though no traps were involved.

Am I reading this correctly?

[james maissen]

Timky Tangletoe wrote:

It seems the author was very careful to limit the use of Perception, but NOT Disable Device. So, if you're using Disable Device to jam a lock or sabotage a wagon wheel, your bonus applies, even though no traps were involved.

Am I reading this correctly?

You are indeed reading it correctly.

On the original note- I had hoped that Paizo would have decided to undertake the monumental task of applying a thesaurus to WotC's SRD, but they elected for the sanity preserving route not to do so.

The term 'level' is SO overused in D&D it is sadly funny. That the rules don't even use 'class level' or 'character level' when they've even made the terms to distinguish them is so, so wrong. And that's without bringing up what's meant by 'Caster level' and 'Spell level'...

Traps are environmental hazards. As a party levels they tend to trivialize such hazards. That SHOULD happen. If a party neglects advancing such an ability then they are only penalized for it. Much like getting across a chasm could be a great hazard at low levels it eventually becomes trivial.

Insisting that low level challenges need to always apply (scaled) for higher level parties leads to horrible things (like 4e). (Rant off)

-James