Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012
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Apologies if this has been discussed before, but I was curious about where all the various "creatures of madness" come from in Pathfinder. I figured there was some analogue to the "Far Realms", but I couldn't find it in "The Great Beyond". Is Leng the right plane/dimension, or is there some other place?
Thanks in advance for any answers.
It's a realm called "The Diseased Imagination of the Staff"...
The book on it to be written by accredited clinicians.
Apologies if this has been discussed before, but I was curious about where all the various "creatures of madness" come from in Pathfinder. I figured there was some analogue to the "Far Realms", but I couldn't find it in "The Great Beyond". Is Leng the right plane/dimension, or is there some other place?
Thanks in advance for any answers.
I don't know of anything by name but the concept is there. The god Zon-Kuthon is said to have been driven mad by something in the 'unknown regions beyond the edge of the Great Beyond.'
His entry is the only mention I've seen of it.
Creative Director
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Outer space. The people of Golarion often call it "The Dark Tapestry" (meaning the black places between the stars). Basically, when you speak about the "Far Realms" you're talking about the Lovecraft-inspired stuff in D&D. For Golarion, we've decided to simply incorporate Lovecraft's vision and mythos into the world to a certain extent. We've come up with phrases like "The Dark Tapestry" and new content and monsters, but also have drawn upon the writings themselves.
That said, the Abyss itself is another place you can go to to get the creatures of madness. Things like the qlippoths and some of the demonic denizens of the Abyss are certainly quite crazy.
Finally, the plane of Shadow is another place with creatures of madness; as mentioned above, this is where Zon-Kuthon dwells.
Also, if Leng (as suggested in places) is a location connected to the Plane of Dreams, then Leng and its inhabitants might be a reflection in a way of either physical beings amid the Dark Tapestry, or a gestalt of the nightmares that those beings inspire in mortals. Or they once existed, and something found those ancestral memories and nightmare echoes interesting and decided to make them manifest amid the dreams of the ethereal.
Lots of wiggle room to define certain things as you like. :D
I'm kind of liking the more ambiguous origin for "things that should not be." While I liked the Far Realm in D&D, it became a little too, I don't know . . . stable? It started to just feel like the "Outer Plane of Lovecraft" instead of something that wasn't compatible with the reality it was intruding upon.
Thank you very much, everyone.
Given what you said, James, I take there won't ever be a "Into the Dark Tapestry" (or, "Out of the Dark Tapestry") source book?
Oh, I wouldn't say that...
Oh, the possibilities... *rolls SAN check* *fails* AHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Anyone remember the Ethergaunts from...I think the MM2? Those were amazing mid-level bad guys. I had a lot of fun as a DM involving their rather sneaky genocide return storyline in one of my games. I always thought of them as pretty crazy, and with the faces behind the mask causing psych issues, I can see some correlation.
I created the ethergaunts.
No way! Actually, that's pretty cool. Yeah, one of my favorite monster backstories. "Excuse me, I used to live here, and I don't want you mucking up my existence."
Besides, a group of mages is hard for any group to handle if played interestingly. I had them sitting on the ethereal, controlling a mixed group of giants with mental commands and occasional force spells. The players were a bit confused until someone bothered to see invisibility and saw 5-6 of those fellows behind the giants. Next occasion they got ambused by two or three mind fogs to kill their saves, at which point charms abounded. Fun, fun bad guys, kudos to you sir.
I created the ethergaunts.
That is so cool. Don't tell anyone, but I'm loosely basing my Azlanti off of them.
The etheregaunts were awesome. The original material was damn cool, and the fluff that Mechalich wrote only further endeared them to me. Ended up using them on two occasions in my home campaign in the deep ethereal.
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That was sooo typical Erick Mona behavior. You have a nice thread about the Far Realm, the sun is shining and life's good, and suddenly Mr. EM jumps out of the shadows and quickly whispers:
"The ethergaunts. I created them."
The next thing you now is that you are cowering in the corner, shaking uncontrollably and muttering something about impossible angle-curves and non-euclidean dodecahedrons. Paizo forums - watch your back in all five dimensions !
That's awesome! It's akin to Gygax popping up out of nowhere and sayiong confidentially, "I created the illithids, you know." :D
Oh, I wouldn't say that...
Eh, what do you know? You just created the ethergaunts. :)
Thanks for the tease.
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Anyone remember the Ethergaunts from...I think the MM2? Those were amazing mid-level bad guys. I had a lot of fun as a DM involving their rather sneaky genocide return storyline in one of my games. I always thought of them as pretty crazy, and with the faces behind the mask causing psych issues, I can see some correlation.
IIRC the were in Fiend Folio.
Man, ethergaunts were awesome.
I stuck a trio of ethergaunt liches in the crypt of an Olman temple once... one of the most memorable high-level fights I've ever run.
Thank you for them!
Love the Etherguants. Shame WoTC never really did anything with them...but they sure shove those stupid Shadar-Kai down everyone's throats!
I wish there were some monsters they'd just open back up since they won't use them! (Or don't know how to...)
I created the kaorti. :-P
I've them too in my home campaign, as part of a plot arc set on a backwater prime world. PCs had to venture into a kaortic cyst staffed with kaorti, pseudonatural animals, a metric ton of psurlons, and around five psionic mind seeds of former Factol Esmus of the Bleak Cabal. Insane psions are fun. Former Factol Tollysalmon of course was worse, being both an insane psion and something much more.
In an attempt to wrest this thread back onto the subject of the Far Realm and the Dark Tapestry...
I created the kaorti. :-P
Awesome! I loved the first kaorti I encountered, in the Istivin arc of Dungeon. Great stuff!
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Kaorti kick butt. Just ignore that sidebar about Kaorti resin weapons. Insert a little house rule that Kaorti have special weapons of that sort, inherently inimical to living things, but the resin can't exist outside of their little cysts, because, uh, inherently inimical to living things and they break down within minutes of entering the 'normal' world...
I think fiend folio's the best one of them thar monster books.
+1 I have a soft spot for planar bad guys.
I think fiend folio's the best one of them thar monster books.
And Henry Higgenbotham's (sp?) sculpted cover art was awesome (I can't believe they didn't notice the monster nipples and piercings).
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Carubuncles, Wolves-in-Sheep's-Clothing, Umplebies, and Adherers? Damn straight it's the best monster book!I think fiend folio's the best one of them thar monster books.
CAPPA! SHAME!
The Wolf-in-Sheep's-Clothing was actually in the Monster Manual 2. SHAME!!!!
It threw me off; I didn't know he was talking about 1e.
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Creative Director
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There's no Fiend Folio other than 1st edition. There was no Highlander 2. George Lucas only made three Star Wars films.
It threw me off; I didn't know he was talking about 1e.
Comparing the 3.5 Fiend Folio (which was mostly written by Paizo Employees at the time) to Highlander 2 and the new Star Wars films is not an efficient way to maintain favor in the eyes of the Publisher or the Editor in Chief at Paizo.
Just sayin'. :-P