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As things stand right now, Pfs is nothing more than a large string of combats with a tiny, tiny bit of story to tie them together. They are all stand alone, one shot modules where the goal is really nothing more than to get loot.
I'm going to make a pretty blanket statement about plots in modules.
Now, I've run through a LOT of Greyhawk modules, and the rule of thumb I found is that where the baseline Greyhawk module contained two combats, the ones with the best plots contained two.
Meanwhile, Pathfinder Society modules tend to feature three or more combats in one adventuring day, and they're held up as being boring hack-n-slash modules...
In other words, fewer combats, more room for better story.
-Matt
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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In other words, fewer combats, more room for better story.
To each his own, I like that PFS modules have more than "two" combats.
I never liked the LG/LFR there shall only be 2 encounters way.
I, for one, believe that more encounters make the module more believable which enhances the story.
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When new players sit down at a table, they are often just making a character on the spot or taking one of the iconics in order to get a feel for the game. In these types of sessions, a player might not make a character that they actually like or one that fits how they’d like it to into the world of Golarion. I would suggest allowing people to rebuild their 1st and 2nd level characters while they learn the rules, familiarize themselves with the world, and pathfinder society in general. I would have these characters freeze when they hit level 3. (Or you could do the same and only allow them to rebuild a 1st level character and have the characters freeze at level 2.)
Hm, like in Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion?
I'm gonna concur with this big time. There happens to be some character concepts which are down-right dreadful for the first levels. The first that comes to mind is the "iconic" Elf Ranger, specializing in archery type of stuff. The problem comes when the elf ranger is able to pick only one feat. That tends to be Point Blank Shot, but there no room for Precise Shot, which is essential for an archer. Alas, they will feel a little useless when they just can't anything.
But enough of the example already. I can think of some minor problems with the said idea. Some people might abuse this chance to rebuild by playing some real survival character first and then shifting it completely, making it a wizard. Thus the rebuild could only be done once before the character plays a module as a 3rd level character.
I'm being incoherent. To sum it up, giving a minor rebuild option would definitely aid beginning players to shape a character better suited for an organized play campaign. An idea brewed in a home game might not work quite as well, after all.
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Now, I've run through a LOT of Greyhawk modules, and the rule of thumb I found is that where the baseline Greyhawk module contained two combats, the ones with the best plots contained two.
Meanwhile, Pathfinder Society modules tend to feature three or more combats in one adventuring day, and they're held up as being boring hack-n-slash modules...
In other words, fewer combats, more room for better story.
-Matt
I won't necessarily agree with this, but perhaps developing a labeling system that indicates the focus of the module. Similar to Hard and Soft Point modules in one of the other OP campaigns, but indicating combat intensive verses social perhaps.
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I found is that where the baseline Greyhawk module contained two combats, the ones with the best plots contained two.Clarification, since it's too late to edit...
*...I found is that where the baseline Greyhawk module contained three combats, the ones with the best plots contained two.*
I think the main reason why there are so many combats in Pathfinder Society modules is because writing combat encounters is very easy and takes up very little space. Writing more intelligent plots requires more NPC's, motivations, timelines, places, and a lot of "what if's" (What if the PC's zig instead of zag? What if they miss this clue? What if they step off the beaten track on do something completely original and innovative?)
One approach would be including social encounters that affect the combat encounters. For example: Lets say the group is supposed to fight a group of bandits guarding a fortified townhouse. If they go in the front door just run the combat encounter as it is (difficult combat). If they sneak in, they get the drop on the bandits (combat made a bit easier). If they get really innovative and recruit a few burly villagers to help them, they get reinforcements against the bandits (combat made easier still).
The example above is one way of making a boring combat encounter more interesting. I don't think something along those lines would take up too much space.
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In the same vein of several threads recently started on these boards, I'd like the community, particularly those who have been in OP campaigns for years, to toss out ideas about how to bring new players to the table and keep them.
You ask a difficult question, but one well worth asking. The following is a bit rambling, as a consequence of being written between 01:00 and 02:30 at night.
From my point of view, the two key things for an organised play campaign are the modules and the volunteers.
The quality and content of modules are probably issues for another thread, but I'd just note here that I prefer the Living Greyhawk style of arranging all the stat blocks to the end of the module, in appendices. Especially the longer stat blocks at higher levels can make modules rather unwieldy. Drow of the Darklands Pyramid, for instance, has an entire two-page spread in the middle of the adventure containing nothing but stats, stats and stats, which also spill over from the preceding and to the following pages.
Then there's the volunteer thing... well. Beats me. This is Finland I live in. We had a lively Living Greyhawk community without any other RPGA presence than what we made ourselves. On the 4E transition, the chief organiser got pissed off and resigned from his post, and now there's no Living Forgotten Realms. He never came to Pathfinder Society, either.
Our established modus operandi is to run games at conventions and make our Finnish campaign website and contact info available, and advertise on the local forums and the bulletin boards of our local game stores. I'm working through the university gaming club. Occasionally we get a new player. New GMs are rarer, though, and a stable of five or six active Dungeon Masters can only support so many players. In my own city, I am the only active GM, which makes for very infrequent games.
I'm not really sure what Paizo has the resources to do for us over here, at the edge of the world. I'd assume that Josh visiting Ropecon isn't gonna happen any time soon (and if we invite someone from Paizo, we'll go for Erik). Mostly, you just need to keep us volunteers happy. While rewards for running games are nifty, I find that personally, at least, it comes back to module quality. Having stuff besides good adventures is nice, but the adventures are the thing we're here for, not the other stuff.
Back in the day, RPGA used to send us these cards that'd give us bonuses in the game, or the occasional squashed and mangled D&D miniature by FedEx. I disliked the cards as a concept and only found utility for them as bookmarks in large rulebooks, and there wasn't really much I could do with a miniature whose ankles had bent so it was kissing the ground, and would return to that position even after being bent with hot water. The most recent item I received was a small adventure module, The Village of Hommlet, which impressively failed to capture the things that made the original module good, but did include a poster-sized battlemap for a tavern, which is probably the first actually useful GM reward they've come up with.
. . .
To get new players interested without replays. I'd say make some modules that are Tier 1-2 ONLY. Maybe make one or two free so DMs can download them, along with a Rules lite version of the organized play rules. So DM's running a "home style game" can run the module for his or her players and make it "count" as an official Society module or just for home play.
To have the DM's or players coming back, maybe make a "part 2" to the module as a Tier 1-2 only module and have it available at the store.
Mike
I would love to use something like this in my eighth grade language arts classes.
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1) Update the PFS One Page for PFRPG and Year One. It is basically our recruiting tool, and it is out of date.
2) One to two paragraph "background stories" per Pregen per faction. For example, Osirion Ezran, Chelaxian Ezran, etc. Or at the very least, assign a faction to each pregen and have a 1-2 paragraph background for that. People playing pregens should get hooked on the faction element of PFS. Heck, take their already written 1 paragraph background stories and add another paragraph about how they got involved with their faction and the PFS.
3) What others have said about allowing credit for another character for playing pregens. Chronicle sheet could be entered as "Pregen" PFS#-1, with the understanding of only one credit per account. We had several disappointed players at GenCon when they realized they wouldn't get credit. We need a more "newb"-friendly approach to the "try then buy" crowd, in order to get the "sales".
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This post is all about how to keep players once they've played an adventure. I think the very most useful thing to get people to stay with Pathfinder Society is to target what new people see, as follows:
1) Website. As mentioned here, have a Pathfinder Society-specific website (not just the store), and be sure to keep it up-to-date.
2) Pregenerated Characters. These are helpful now, but have a long way to go. Four thoughts to make these more helpful:
a) Give the pre-gens factions and traits. These are two neat aspects of this game that other games don't really have, so include them!
b) Include a paragraph of background for each pre-gen. A player of mine who chose Ezren said, "this guy looks like he's got quite a story. What's his history?" You can answer that by cut-and-paste from the iconic histories in each adventure you produce. Easy and helpful.
c) Provide more pre-gen options. You should have one for each of the iconics, I think. I hope this is in the pipeline.
d) Explain What's Next. The second page/back page of the pre-gens should be the post-adventure "What's Next?" page. You can provide a short paragraph about why Pathfinder Society is cool (your character advances!) and give the player two options to keep on playing Pathfinder Society:
(i) make up a different character with the PFS Guide rules (perhaps allowing a 1 XP "starting bonus" for having played the pre-gen), or
(ii) provide simple rules for customizing the pre-gen in order to let the newbie keep on playing that same pre-gen in the future (such as "You can change your character's name. You can change your faction. You can swap out your feat(s) for appropriate feats in the PFRPG. You can swap out your traits for others listed in the Traits document.") These shouldn't be options that will intimidate new players, however; extensive options (like adjusting skill ranks, revising a favored class option, or changing a cleric's deity or domains) shouldn't be allowed in this minor revision. For that, they could just build a similar character. Many new players will like this, I think, especially if they can just keep right on playing Valeros as is, because they're happy with him.
3) Starting Chronicle Sheet. This paperwork has been the single most confusing aspect for anyone I've introduced to this game. You should provide a "Chronicle Sheet 0" that anyone may use, to be filled out as people make their character. This sheet has the 0 Starting XP, 0 Starting PA, and 150 Starting GP already in place, a spot to list all the equipment purchased, and perhaps comment bubbles with helpful things like "Your character name goes here", "Your name goes here", etc. You could have one of these with each pre-gen, because people playing pre-gens are most likely to be intimidated by the sudden blast of post-game paperwork.
I hope these suggestions are helpful.
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I might be derailing a bit but I'd find it awesome to have the chronicle sheets look a little more 'flashy and nifty'. At the moment it's a bit bland with the large white space that often doesn't even hold any access items (at least not a whole lot). Personally I'd very much like to see the nation's flag/symbol where the scenario took place. I know this would be very much like in Living Greyhawk ARs (Adventure Record), but having a visually impressive chronicle sheet might lure some people into thinking them more as diplomas, something you like to carry around.
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I might be derailing a bit but I'd find it awesome to have the chronicle sheets look a little more 'flashy and nifty'. At the moment it's a bit bland with the large white space that often doesn't even hold any access items (at least not a whole lot). Personally I'd very much like to see the nation's flag/symbol where the scenario took place. I know this would be very much like in Living Greyhawk ARs (Adventure Record), but having a visually impressive chronicle sheet might lure some people into thinking them more as diplomas, something you like to carry around.
That's certainly something which the people I play with would like to see. One of my friends was a dedicated collector of the different shields printed on LG ARs. I seem to recall him even getting excited as the new year approached because each year's ARs had a different rune forming the background. One of the real advantage of an AR/SC system is the 'artifact', the physical memento of the game. It's probably not a lot of extra work to make that look and feel just a little more impressive, and that sort of attention to detail can really improve the overall experience of play.
Director of Brand Strategy
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I might be derailing a bit but I'd find it awesome to have the chronicle sheets look a little more 'flashy and nifty'. At the moment it's a bit bland with the large white space that often doesn't even hold any access items (at least not a whole lot). Personally I'd very much like to see the nation's flag/symbol where the scenario took place. I know this would be very much like in Living Greyhawk ARs (Adventure Record), but having a visually impressive chronicle sheet might lure some people into thinking them more as diplomas, something you like to carry around.That's certainly something which the people I play with would like to see. One of my friends was a dedicated collector of the different shields printed on LG ARs. I seem to recall him even getting excited as the new year approached because each year's ARs had a different rune forming the background. One of the real advantage of an AR/SC system is the 'artifact', the physical memento of the game. It's probably not a lot of extra work to make that look and feel just a little more impressive, and that sort of attention to detail can really improve the overall experience of play.
The only concern I would anticipate with adding images and more complex layout to the Chronicles would be cost and time involved in printing. Adding color images, especially images that people will want to collect, adds extra pressure on GMs or organizers who have to print six copies of each one each time they play. What if they don't have a color printer? What if they don't want to use all their color ink?
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I ran Living Greyhawk games from 2003 - 2008 in metro-Phoenix (East Valley) as the lead coordinator for A Gathering of Players (AGoP). The tables grew from barely making one legal table per month to 12 tables (per month) in bi-weekly game days. The biggest reasons I attribute to this success is 1) judges, 2) always putting the club's name out there, every where, 3) the support of a gaming store (or a consistent location to run), 4) pairing up newbies with experienced players at the game day who have enthusiasm for the game, 5) creating a repeatable, consistent process for future game days, 6) constant communication with the players who attend, and 7) a constant stream of new play opportunities (new scenarios).
During the LG years the largest, local competition for a player's time was Living Arcanis, Mark of Heroes and Xen'drik Expeditions. These were not as successful as LG in terms of events at AGoP. I think a large part of it was because LG was more approachable for new players to get involved. LA players might think differently but I tried the game and felt getting up to speed on world events and previous story lines was an obstacle. For Mark of Heroes and Xen'drik Expeditions, there was interest but the scenario releases were inconsistent, killing off player participation. Although, some players dropped out because of how leveling was handled.
Using my experience with LG and lessons learned from other campaign offerings I'm finding it difficult to get interest in Pathfinder Society. The setting, scenarios, and rules are approachable but in my situation there is large gorilla in the room called Living Forgotten Realms. Only those players interested in playing something other than 4E are interested in the PFS campaign. AGoP’s play numbers for LFR is larger than LG’s numbers. However, I believe there are players out there who will not only try out PFS but stay with the campaign.
Per my steps outlined above here's what I've done in the past and will try out with Pathfinder Society. Hopefully some of it helps this audience. (I wish I could have put all this under the "show" button but I didn't know how to use it. Sorry for the length.)
1, Judges - I run slot 0s for a small group of judges, four player max. The reason to not offer a slot 0 with a full table of judges is to keep tables at the game day running. I don’t want to have six judges ready to run 2 - 3 players. I think online play now allowed with the new PFS guide can help coordinators in other cities a chance to run slot 0s who might have a problem with a small player base.
2. Create a club name that players can attach to, and repeat it every where you can. Put up photocopied sheets at game stores, or in other traffic spots that attract gamers. For our club, I also put it in a publication called ConNotations. It is a local paper published by local gamers, for local gaming. I also carry business cards with me to local conventions and hand them out. People at conventions try out new games. If any players sat down at a table they’ll walk away with a business card with the club’s information (yahoo group, warhorn.net URL, and coordinator email address). What I recommend is that you approach the club the same way as creating a brand for a product. When a gamer identifies a club’s name like a brand magnificent things happen when they talk about you to their friends.
3. AGoP has the support of a game store. Without their support we would not be as successful as we are. Before Gamer’s Inn was opened we ran at a place (not to be named) that was geared for LAN and Warhammer play. We did not feel welcome and the store owner only grunted a hello when I arrived to set up. I don’t mean to digress with that example but a game store that supports your club is essential to success. My suggestion if you play at a game store is to become the store owner’s friend. Let him/her know what you’re running, when, how long it’ll take, and what facilities you need (tables/chairs/space). Also let them know how you will benefit them. A good store owner already knows it but go the extra step. At AGoP game days players have the option to toss $1 into a pool that turns into a store gift certificate that is raffled off. Just recently I offered to have our club sponsor the RPG area. Think of adopt a highway. Our club is responsible to keep the area tidy not just for our games at all times. For this privilege we get to put up a sign that says, “RPG room sponsored by AGoP” (again, think branding). This trade off is good for the club and the store. Us for exposure and the store for freeing up an employee to pick up after untidy gamers. If you’re not lucky to have a store to game it is important to find a location that will not change. Players won’t stay interested if they need to travel to a different place every time they play. In the same vein as branding think, location, location, location.
4. When new players arrive I always connect them to experienced players who are enthused about the campaign. As a coordinator I can’t spend a lot of time with them but, again luckily, we have players who will take the time to teach a newbie what Pathfinder Society is all about. Tongue-in-cheek, this experienced player has a charisma of 13+, with a bend toward play experience and not rules teaching. A player will take the time to learn the rules if s/he is coming back so teaching them rules at their first session isn’t the way to go. If they leave with a good play experience it sets them up much better to return as a regular player. Rules are learned or picked up. Leaving confused and not tasting, breathing, and living the campaign world won’t produce regular players.
5. Use a sign-up system that is always kept up to date. My suggestion is not only keep it up to date but list games out at least two weeks in advance. And when this game day is approaching put up the schedule for the next game day. I invite people reading to look at AGoP’s sign-ups at www.warhorn.net/gathering as an example. Putting up sign-ups or asking who’s showing up at a game day a few days before the event will not give the coordinator enough time to drum up interest. Also, not having an advance schedule causes players to believe it’s not a recurring event or they will make other plans before the next event is put on the schedule. Always let players know their investment in time and money will produce a consistent, guaranteed game to play.
6. To communicate with players I use Yahoo! Groups. Anything and everything about the campaign and game days are put there. I have one group for players and another for judges. If you prefer a different tool to communicate with players that’s fine. My suggestion is the tool must allow two-way communication. Emails, Web site lists, or sign-ups lists won’t do it. Just like this message board, you need to create a local community to talk to each other. Keep the discussions on task to the campaign. If you allow random posts of about movies, quizzes, recent real world events, etc. Etc. you will lose your audience. Give your players one area to go to where they can quick information (not paging through irrelevant material) and participate in a dialogue with other players. Coordinators and judges should post often or at least keep posts fresh. Don’t let things go stale. Some people don’t post but they visit often. If they consistently see old posts you will lose them as regular players.
7. Keep one step ahead of the players in terms of scenarios out for play. I’ve been in situations, not PFS, when everyone’s sitting around wondering what’ll get run. Everyone wants to play or no one has played the latest scenario. This might be difficult with a small, local player base or if access to resources for online play is not available, but, my suggestion is set up a slot 0 opportunity face-to-face or online. For F2F play, I would like to point out that rotating judging duties is fine but I believe it creates a homogenous group of players who are not looking to grow the player base. Actively running a slot 0, or participating in one, then looking outward to run others is a good start to growing the Pathfinder Society player base. On the flip side of playing new scenarios is having new scenarios available to run. Don’t only look at what’s the latest Pathfinder Scenario released. Look to your new players and run scenarios they are missing. Don’t be shy about getting new players caught up even if it means veteran players don’t have something to play. To keep both sides happy I set up two slots, one for an old scenario, and one for the latest release.
All of what I said is pretty much equivalent to a part-time job. Get help if you need it. Don’t be afraid to delegate if you have people who agree to assist but remember they are friends, not employees. There’s more I’d like to say but this post is long already. I’ll check in on this thread and reply to any questions.
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One thing that has been a barrier to getting the PFS going in my area is the fact that you have to pay for the adventures. I know that Paizo is a small company and needs the revenue, but I can't be the only one who has run into this as a problem.
I ask for $1 from each player to pitch into the cost of the scenario and printing chronicles. I run two games per day, that's 50-cents per game. I've never had a player complain about it. Any funds left over is put into buying giveaways for the players at special events.
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I think that the biggest thing I can think of would be a rules light version of Pathfinder. It has been an idea that has been thrown about on occasion and it would definately make the game more accessabl to new players. I have been playing RPGs off an on since I was 5 years old, 1978 for those keeping track, and I was a litl intimidatd when I saw the pathfinder core rulebook. I can only imagine how it must look to new players.
Edit: The book could have human, elf, dwarf, and halfling as races; fighter, cleric, rogue, and either wizard or sorcerer as classes and basic items, spells, and rules. It would also have a lower price point which would also be attractive to green players.
I hope this doesn't happen. I believe players who are interested in the rules will buy the book. I have two copies and keep one floating around the table. Players who can't afford the $50 I suggest they get the $10 PDF. Having to learn Pathfinder RPG rules and then run PFS game days using a subset of those rules will be taxing.
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One thing that has been a barrier to getting the PFS going in my area is the fact that you have to pay for the adventures. I know that Paizo is a small company and needs the revenue, but I can't be the only one who has run into this as a problem.One thing I know is that no gaming system is filling the void left for people having reasons to hold small conventions. The main draw to these conventions were interactives which could only be played there.
Therefore my suggestion is to start offering interactives and you could gain control of all the non-huge conventions that happen throughout the year.
100% agree. I gained more new players at conventions in comparison to store game day walk-ins. I think interactives on their own won't sell a person to travel. If there were regional scenarios perhaps it would gain more interest. But that's outside the scope of this thread.
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I have been working hard to spread PFS locally at game days, meetups, and mini-cons since it started last GenCon and I know that it can be tough roping people in long-term. Just to toss out some ideas in a rather haphazard manner:
1) Everyone who registers for a PFS number gives you their email. Send out monthly newsletters on upcoming scenarios, events, open calls, invitations to participate in ongoing discussions on these boards, contests, etc. If a meta-plot is decided upon based on other discussions, give people updates on how their actions are affecting their faction, the Society, or Golarion as a whole.
2) Create a page long "intro document" to give to new players about the campaign without getting into rules and specifics. I found that I spent a lot of time at meetups explaining to people who just wanted a one-off game why they should register for the Society, and why it was worth them sticking with.
3) Allow play of pregens for new players to provide full XP, prestige and wealth to a new character they can build themselves using the conversion rules from 2.0. This allows them a built-in incentive to make their own PC and download the current GtPFSOP as they actually get to keep what they earned in that first game.
4) Get game stores more involved. At this point, it's up to players/GMs who already know PFS to approach stores to set up games. I tried it at a place that wasn't very open to the idea because they expected Paizo would support them directly for doing so. Right now their only incentive to officially sponsoring PFS is extra people in their store, and for some stores that isn't enough. Supplying signage and resources to aid stores, and possibly other things on the backend that customers wouldn't see would go a long way to helping GMs and players find friendly places to play.
5) Now that players have access to almost every product from Paizo, perhaps providing discounts or coupons for pdfs based on prestige earned, games run, etc as an out-of-game benefit would be an...
All very good suggestions. Each one is a good base to start a discussion on how to implement it.
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A portal would make a lot of sense, maybe even one written from the perspective of characters in Golarian. Showcase the world, the Pathfinder Society, and all the wonderful things about the game in an interactive, in character experience. This was one of the things that first drew me to Exalted. The comics at the start of each chapter helped me feel like I knew the world, even if I didn't know the rules.
I'll add myself to this suggestion. In favor of.
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I think being active in local conventions is going to really get the word out. Maybe have convention packages that come with everyone an organizer needs to run Pathfinder at a convention, for a price of course.
In Living Greyhawk, the reason people traveled to different local conventions were to play unique sanctioned interactives, and of course, to play in new regions.
I'm not saying you need to go with regions (though that would increase travel), but maybe have sanctioned battle interactives that affect a certain region of Golarion, that is only given to a few conventions that request it.
Yes! I would buy the convention package and hand out prizes to judges and players. Working with the convention owner/gaming organizer on the cost of the package was difficult. But, if you're creative, all things are possible.
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I'm an experienced RPGA DM and author for Living Greyhawk. I've played a little LFR but more interested in Pathfinder at this point.
To get new players interested without replays. I'd say make some modules that are Tier 1-2 ONLY. Maybe make one or two free so DMs can download them, along with a Rules lite version of the organized play rules. So DM's running a "home style game" can run the module for his or her players and make it "count" as an official Society module or just for home play.
To have the DM's or players coming back, maybe make a "part 2" to the module as a Tier 1-2 only module and have it available at the store.
Another idea I mentioned to Erik and Josh, have PFS adaptables of Pathfinder modules like Crown of the Kobold King. The module is low level. You'd like the hard copy module to run the adaptable. Its for 2nd level PCs but I'm sure a table of six first levels might be able to handle it. I haven't played it so I'm not 100% sure if thats the case but since its low level. I think it would be a good bridge into the PFS.
Also get the word out to game stores. Here's some posters plastic minis or dice or what not to give out to new Pathfinder Society players like I mentioned maybe a special module to game stores that sign up for a program.
Mike
I buy the Adventure Paths but cannot find a consistent group to play them. Pathfinder Society players don't have time for another weekly game. If the Gamemastery or AP modules became PFS-friendly I think I'd have a full-body freakout first, then put it up on the game day sign-ups right after. (perhaps that was too much information).
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There are some things that could be done to increase pathfinder society turnout. In order of necessity they are.
-snip-
2: You have the better game system out there right now. Act like you know it.
Picking your own path and going with 1xp per mod works amazingly well. Borrowing the replay rules from LFR betrays a lack of confidence that makes what you have to offer seem inferior.-snip-
4: Make some con special event to promote larger local cons.
Having an interactive for every small con out there is too labor intensive. I would recomend having a single faction special mission available per year for each faction. This would give each faction a chace to do what they do best without the interference of others. Make sure that these special missions use most of all of the wierd stuff people had to do to get their faction awards in the first place. Getting alot of people in one place playing works to the herd mentality of people. Some will only try this out if enough other people are seen to be doing it.5: Tie the mods together better.
From what i have seen from the first 20 mods or so the continuity has been almost nonexistent. This isn't all bad as it frees people to play stuff out of order without spoiling other mods. That the faction missions come off more like a pointless scavenger hunt doesn't...
I agree with #2 very much. PFS needs to stand on it's own. If PFS tastes a little like 4E why would a player try it? If they play 4E they won't see a benefit to playing PFS if they experience is the same.
#4 is good stepping stone for full-blown interactives.
#5 would be nice. Even if it's only a recurring villain.
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This post is all about how to keep players once they've played an adventure. I think the very most useful thing to get people to stay with Pathfinder Society is to target what new people see, as follows:
-snip-
3) Starting Chronicle Sheet. This paperwork has been the single most confusing aspect for anyone I've introduced to this game. You should provide a "Chronicle Sheet 0" that anyone may use, to be filled out as people make their character. This sheet has the 0 Starting XP, 0 Starting PA, and 150 Starting GP already in place, a spot to list all the equipment purchased, and perhaps comment bubbles with helpful things like "Your character name goes here", "Your name goes here", etc. You could have one of these with each pre-gen, because people playing pre-gens are most likely to be intimidated by the sudden blast of post-game paperwork.
I'd like to expand on this. Since access on the chronicle sheet takes a backseat when a character has enough PA to buy the cool stuff how about about having non-PFRPG rule book access. Before the gasps, I mean what about having Golorian specific access? One specific example I have is getting an ioun stone for their wayfinder that does something specific, something cool, other than +X bonus to stats or combat related bumps. Another might be a faction story element that is relevant to a future scenario. This might help tie in the continuity requests.
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The only concern I would anticipate with adding images and more complex layout to the Chronicles would be cost and time involved in printing. Adding color images, especially images that people will want to collect, adds extra pressure on GMs or organizers who have to print six copies of each one each time they play. What if they don't have a color printer? What if they don't want to use all their color ink?
If one would really want that colored chronicle sheet, the GM could just extract the sheet from the PDF and send it separately to the players. I've done this once, it's not a hard task to do.
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If one would really want that colored chronicle sheet, the GM could just extract the sheet from the PDF and send it separately to the players. I've done this once, it's not a hard task to do.
Sending chronicle sheets to players is a bad idea (OK, I think what I said was a little insulting and I'm sorry. I just can't figure out how to say it differently.) Those sheets need legitimate GM signatures and players can't always come back to the GM and get those. All work should be done at the table. (And I think that's the best way and I really don't see any way to do it better.)
Perhaps players could download a fancy consolidated chronicle sheet from Piazo that showed all the games they were in that were reported. I could see that, but I will not be sending any sheets to any players as that certainly goes against the copywrite of those materials. Plus I really don't want to give my email address out.
I'm not trying to slam you Deussu, please keep the ideas coming.
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The only concern I would anticipate with adding images and more complex layout to the Chronicles would be cost and time involved in printing. Adding color images, especially images that people will want to collect, adds extra pressure on GMs or organizers who have to print six copies of each one each time they play. What if they don't have a color printer? What if they don't want to use all their color ink?
GMs and organizers already face that choice with the color logo of the Pathfinder Society on the chronicle sheet. I've seen some organizers print the sheets out in color on thick paper (less than cardstock, but more than typical copier paper). I've seen others print out black and white versions on office paper. I've seen still others print the greyscale version on colored paper for variety.
An alternative to the flag/symbol would be the illustration from the front of the scenario (usually a principal monster or villain). Consider throwing the scenario summary on there as well.
I'd like to expand on this. Since access on the chronicle sheet takes a backseat when a character has enough PA to buy the cool stuff how about about having non-PFRPG rule book access. Before the gasps, I mean what about having Golorian specific access? One specific example I have is getting an ioun stone for their wayfinder that does something specific, something cool, other than +X bonus to stats or combat related bumps. Another might be a faction story element that is relevant to a future scenario. This might help tie in the continuity requests.
Do you mean beyond the scope of Chapter 13 of the Guide book where non-core, Golarion-specific items/equipment/prestige classes/etc are allowed? If yes, can you be more specific?
As for ioun stones, those are coming in Seekers of Secrets. Once that book is out, I'll update Chapter 13.
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If one would really want that colored chronicle sheet, the GM could just extract the sheet from the PDF and send it separately to the players. I've done this once, it's not a hard task to do.Sending chronicle sheets to players is a bad idea (OK, I think what I said was a little insulting and I'm sorry. I just can't figure out how to say it differently.) Those sheets need legitimate GM signatures and players can't always come back to the GM and get those. All work should be done at the table. (And I think that's the best way and I really don't see any way to do it better.)
Perhaps players could download a fancy consolidated chronicle sheet from Piazo that showed all the games they were in that were reported. I could see that, but I will not be sending any sheets to any players as that certainly goes against the copywrite of those materials. Plus I really don't want to give my email address out.
I'm not trying to slam you Deussu, please keep the ideas coming.
Oh right, forgot to mention you can get some programs from 'da intarnets' to fill the GM spot with text or an image. A scanned signature, for example. Technology is fun.
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Do you mean beyond the scope of Chapter 13 of the Guide book where non-core, Golarion-specific items/equipment/prestige classes/etc are allowed? If yes, can you be more specific?
As for ioun stones, those are coming in Seekers of Secrets. Once that book is out, I'll update Chapter 13.
Yes, I did mean having access other than items, equip and prestige classes from these other publications. That access is great but what about story elements or faction benefits. For example, there were a handful of scenarios based in Absalom. If in one of these scenarios where the PCs had interaction with a merchant it would be cool if the chronicle awarded a +2 circumstance bonus on Charisma-based checks when dealing with merchants. Or, the merchant can procure an item for the PC at a discount from the published cost. Another example is in a recent scenario the Pathfinder Society had to cooperate with the Aspis Consortium. What if a chronicle benefit was having a future one-time contact with a person from this group to perform some task. This task wouldn't break the mod. It could be granting a +2 circumstance bonus on diplomacy (gather information) checks. (though, for me, it's the Aspis Consortium so I would use the favor to have them clean my boots but perhaps someone is more productive in its use than me.)
For faction benefits, what about including a one-use benefit that grants a re-roll to achieve a faction mission (sometimes a roll is low to get the DC 25 check, this could be a popular insurance to get the 2nd PA point). Although I'd include the restriction that only one such re-roll per faction, per table.
I could write more example is you need them but in short, what I'm saying is instead of using the chronicle for item access what about granting in-game benefits that are universal enough to always come in handy.
-Thanks for the follow up.
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Perhaps players could download a fancy consolidated chronicle sheet from Piazo that showed all the games they were in that were reported. I could see that, but I will not be sending any sheets to any players as that certainly goes against the copywrite of those materials. Plus I really don't want to give my email address out.
Also the chronicle sheet doesn't include the watermark, thus there is no email address. Furthermore, why would it go against the copyright? I give these papers to the players, so what difference would it make to give them in a digital form?
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Perhaps players could download a fancy consolidated chronicle sheet from Piazo that showed all the games they were in that were reported. I could see that, but I will not be sending any sheets to any players as that certainly goes against the [edit]copyright [/edit] of those materials. Plus I really don't want to give my email address out.Also the chronicle sheet doesn't include the watermark, thus there is no email address. Furthermore, why would it go against the copyright? I give these papers to the players, so what difference would it make to give them in a digital form?
1) I'm not a lawyer so I can't tell you the specifics, but absence of a watermark doesn't indicate I permission to electronicly redistribute any Paizo material. I could be wrong about this, but until corrected, I will not share anything electronicly. Not a judgement call on you or anyone else, but I intend to follow the spirit and the definition of the (Copyright) law. If you know of something I don't know about that Paizo has in print that says otherwise and I will change my mind.
1a) On the other hand, IMHO I'm not really comfortable with blank chronicle sheets being emailed out. Its like a blank check. I guess you could fill out the sheet and then scan it and then email it, more work than I want to get into, but to each their own.
2) If I have to email something, I have to give out an email. It's part of the email header.
Long and short of it, if you want to get me to take a chronicle sheet at face value, I need it to meet a certain standard. I want a GM signature and number writen on it with notes about what was earned in the senario and what wasn't. If Paizo says that I don't need those things fine, but I need to see that info in print.
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Oh right, forgot to mention you can get some programs from 'da intarnets' to fill the GM spot with text or an image. A scanned signature, for example. Technology is fun.If one would really want that colored chronicle sheet, the GM could just extract the sheet from the PDF and send it separately to the players. I've done this once, it's not a hard task to do.Sending chronicle sheets to players is a bad idea (OK, I think what I said was a little insulting and I'm sorry. I just can't figure out how to say it differently.) Those sheets need legitimate GM signatures and players can't always come back to the GM and get those. All work should be done at the table. (And I think that's the best way and I really don't see any way to do it better.)
Perhaps players could download a fancy consolidated chronicle sheet from Piazo that showed all the games they were in that were reported. I could see that, but I will not be sending any sheets to any players as that certainly goes against the copywrite of those materials. Plus I really don't want to give my email address out.
I'm not trying to slam you Deussu, please keep the ideas coming.
No permission is given for altering the original form and redistribute it. Putting in your name would be considered altering that form. If Paizo doen't consider that a problem, so be it.
Do you mean beyond the scope of Chapter 13 of the Guide book where non-core, Golarion-specific items/equipment/prestige classes/etc are allowed? If yes, can you be more specific?
As for ioun stones, those are coming in Seekers of Secrets. Once that book is out, I'll update Chapter 13.
Yes, I did mean having access other than items, equip and prestige classes from these other publications. That access is great but what about story elements or faction benefits. For example, there were a handful of scenarios based in Absalom. If in one of these scenarios where the PCs had interaction with a merchant it would be cool if the chronicle awarded a +2 circumstance bonus on Charisma-based checks when dealing with merchants. Or, the merchant can procure an item for the PC at a discount from the published cost. Another example is in a recent scenario the Pathfinder Society had to cooperate with the Aspis Consortium. What if a chronicle benefit was having a future one-time contact with a person from this group to perform some task. This task wouldn't break the mod. It could be granting a +2 circumstance bonus on diplomacy (gather information) checks. (though, for me, it's the Aspis Consortium so I would use the favor to have them clean my boots but perhaps someone is more productive in its use than me.)
For faction benefits, what about including a one-use benefit that grants a re-roll to achieve a faction mission (sometimes a roll is low to get the DC 25 check, this could be a popular insurance to get the 2nd PA point). Although I'd include the restriction that only one such re-roll per faction, per table.
I could write more example is you need them but in short, what I'm saying is instead of using the chronicle for item access what about granting in-game benefits that are universal enough to always come in handy.
-Thanks for the follow up.
These are all good ideas!
While there were no boons in 29, 30, 31, and 32 (the first 4 season 1 scenarios), there is a multi-tiered boon in 33 and there will be more boons throughout this season. I tested them out in Season 0 (our playtest season) and they played very well, so we'll be using more of them.
I think the first step towards increasing the number of people playing PFS is to increase the number of people playing Pathfinder in general. Do that and the PFS players will follow. In that line of thought, might I suggest web comics? For the cost of a few free books along with a letter asking them to take a look at your product and post about it on their site if they like it you guys could have free advertising to thousands upon thousands of people. And advertising that’s worth a hell of a lot more than some banner on a web page.
Some suggestions:
Real Life Comics (reallifecomics.com): The Characters are shown playing D&D every once in a while. Greg is himself a player, and he updates his news page regularly.
Dominic Deegan (dominic-deegan.com): Mookie is already a Pathfinder player, and has given you guys a couple of great reviews on his site which sees 35,567 views a day. He might be good to hit up with some PFS stuff.
Weregeek (weregeek.com) : Not quite as popular as the first two, but the comic is almost strictly about Role Playing Games. The artist Alina updates the news on her front page regularly, and has another journal comic (mooseheadstew.com) which she may mention the game on.
PVP/Penny-Arcade (pvponline.com/penny-arcade.com) : These two are powerhouses, and if you could get them it would give you guys a ton of new customers. They are listed together because unfortunately Wizards has their hooks pretty deep into both, so it might be a dead end.