| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Semi-hypothetically speaking here:
My character invests his feats in TWF, improved shield bash, etc up to and including Shield Master (Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield's shield bonus to attacks and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was an enhancement bonus.)
Taking his heavy spiked shield he enchants it to a +4 Bashing shield.
Then enchanting the shield as a weapon he adds +4 Defending to it.
The shield itself gives a +2 shield bonus to AC.
If he maxes out the defending aspect I just want to be sure I'm calculating the various bonuses correctly:
AC:
+4 enhancement bonus from the shield
+4 bonus from the defending wpn aspect
+2 shield bonus
+2 from Shield Focus and GSF
Total +12 to AC
Attack/damage bonus:
+2 enhancement to attack from Shield master feat
+2 to attack from Shield Focus and GSF (?)
+2 enhancement to damage from Shield master feat
+2 to damage from Shield Focus and GSF (?)
(No enhancment bonuses from the wpn due to their use for defending AC)
Total +4 damage/ +4 attack (?)
Now the funny bits (apart from the SF and GSF focus effect on att/dam).
If I'm wearing a (spiked) gauntlet in my main hand would I be considered wielding it... even if I've chosen not to attack with it? That would mean I'm not technically 2wpn fighting making the shield master feat bonuses function without the TWF penalties.
Now truth be told, I'm considering something similar to this with a character whose maxed out his UMD skill with fighter training in the "close" group. (Prolly Wpn focus and specialization in shield bash too if I can find the feats for it. Add in throwing and returning on the shield as a weapon and suddenly I'm the medival Captain Ameri... er Golarian.)
Anyways, if I do this... is it cheezy or too min-maxy for most?
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
|
I don't think shield focus and gsf actually increase the shield bonus, just give you a +1 to AC each. Therefore your attack/damage bonuses are only going to be +2/+2 not +4/+4 with the shield.
Also I think it has been pretty well established that you can only perform a shield bash as an off hand attack, so TWF is required. The spiked guantlet in the other hand should work fine, just remember there is a -4 attack penalty for using the heavy shield in your other hand. Check out this thread for lots of gory details on the subject.
Anyways, if I do this... is it cheezy or too min-maxy for most?
It screams cheese. I wouldn't allow it.
Shield bashing makes it a weapon, but the defending dealio would apply to actual melee weapons, not ranged weapons, and, maybe I'm reaching here, but not shields, either.
I'd have no problem with a defending off-hand weapon, giving you some AC, but you can't make a defending shield. It's a shield. The defense bonus of a defending weapon "stacks with all others." OIW, it's an untyped bonus. Magic shields get shield bonuses, not armor or deflection, or any other bonuses.
If your GM allows it, though, go for it.
Anyways, if I do this... is it cheezy or too min-maxy for most?
It screams cheese. I wouldn't allow it.
Shield bashing makes it a weapon, but the defending dealio would apply to actual melee weapons, not ranged weapons, and, maybe I'm reaching here, but not shields, either.
I'd have no problem with a defending off-hand weapon, giving you some AC, but you can't make a defending shield. It's a shield. The defense bonus of a defending weapon "stacks with all others." OIW, it's an untyped bonus. Magic shields get shield bonuses, not armor or deflection, or any other bonuses.
If your GM allows it, though, go for it.
But what about defending shield spikes? Don't they count as weapons?
But what about defending shield spikes? Don't they count as weapons?Anyways, if I do this... is it cheezy or too min-maxy for most?
It screams cheese. I wouldn't allow it.
Shield bashing makes it a weapon, but the defending dealio would apply to actual melee weapons, not ranged weapons, and, maybe I'm reaching here, but not shields, either.
I'd have no problem with a defending off-hand weapon, giving you some AC, but you can't make a defending shield. It's a shield. The defense bonus of a defending weapon "stacks with all others." OIW, it's an untyped bonus. Magic shields get shield bonuses, not armor or deflection, or any other bonuses.
If your GM allows it, though, go for it.
Yes, but they're attached to a shield, making them part of a shield, the protective advantage of which is a shield bonus, not an untyped weapon AC bonus. Adding defending to a shield can give you a +10 AC bonus to a single thing on one arm. Smells like cheese, AFAIC. Again, if the GM allowed it, I'd totally exploit that. It's a marvelous cheat, expensive as it may be. I wouldn't let a player do it in my game, though.
Actually Shield spikes are kept separate and tracked separate for most purposes (including cost). Shield spikes give no AC bonus, they are weapons, however a set of Defending shield spikes would give an untyped bonus that (more importantly) specifically state that they stack with everything.
Including armor spikes of defending... and spiked gauntlets of defending, and a dagger of defending (light shield I can hold a dagger in that had)...
However it isn't a cheat to use the rules exactly as written. Besides while it is +10 ac on one arm, it is also that much more gold in one item. Meaning don't get disjunctioned.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
I agree with Abraham,
It's a good maximization, and the shield alone costs 75,625 (assuming you went steel, adamantine would be more expensive) The Captain America version adds another 48K to it.
That's almost all your gold for a 11th level character, or almost all your gold at 13th level for the Captain America version. If you toss it at someone, it's gone for the full round (I'd actually allow the cleave property on it to make it bounce around and hit multiple mooks, but that's my love of Cap coming through).
Even if your wizard has 'craft arms and armour' it's still an expensive toy.
Don't forget it's a move action to take the shield off to throw it as a weapon and another move action to equip it as a shield when it returns.
However it isn't a cheat to use the rules exactly as written. Besides while it is +10 ac on one arm, it is also that much more gold in one item. Meaning don't get disjunctioned.
Yeah, there's nothing really keeping you from doing it, but it still smells like limburger to me. I'd probably point out to the player that the loss of such an expensive item is almost too horible to contemplate!
The BBEG wizard will surely have heard of the approaching fighter's legendary enemy-neutralizing shield after losing half his minions to it. Gonna have to do something about that guy! ;)
Including armor spikes of defending... and spiked gauntlets of defending, and a dagger of defending (light shield I can hold a dagger in that had)...
That's a disturbing extension of my idea.
LOL
Don't forget it's a move action to take the shield off to throw it as a weapon and another move action to equip it as a shield when it returns.
Wasn't there a magic bonus for armour(+1 or +2) that allowed it to be donned instantly in one of the splat books (summoning maybe?)
Anyways thanks for the food for thought all. I hadn't considered a few things mentioned and appreciate the input.
However it isn't a cheat to use the rules exactly as written. Besides while it is +10 ac on one arm, it is also that much more gold in one item. Meaning don't get disjunctioned.Yeah, there's nothing really keeping you from doing it, but it still smells like limburger to me. I'd probably point out to the player that the loss of such an expensive item is almost too horible to contemplate!
The BBEG wizard will surely have heard of the approaching fighter's legendary enemy-neutralizing shield after losing half his minions to it. Gonna have to do something about that guy! ;)
Understandable, if he has had surviving minions to have report to him, or he has been scrying on them regularly. I've noticed a trend for enemies who have no means of having heard of characters (all the minions are dead, the fighting style while odd isn't "I'm the only one you'll see do this" odd, or if it is, point one again, everyone that sees it is dead) suddenly being perfectly prepared for them.
However in my regular gaming group we have a bit of a gentleman's agreement. You don't do certain things and the DM doesn't do certain things (like stacking up a bunch of defending items) or it gets thrown back at you.
Not meanly at either end but we don't step up the game unless the other side does it as that leads to "who's got the bigger 'x'" problems.
Including armor spikes of defending... and spiked gauntlets of defending, and a dagger of defending (light shield I can hold a dagger in that had)...That's a disturbing extension of my idea.
LOL
Just remember what goes around comes around. I generally don't use this one since there by doing so I point it out to the DM for his use... and he can probably find and afford more items to put defending on than you can:
+5/+5 defending quarter staff, +5 defending spiked gauntlet, +5 defending armor spikes, +5 defending light mithral shield, +5 defending dagger, +5 defending Iron Beard (or whatever that monstrosity in the Cheliaxian book is) +5 defending helmet spikes, +5 defending combat boots, +5 defending amulet of the mighty fist... +50 AC to a level 20 wizard you have to face (on touch AC too!)? No thank you.
But wait, there's more. If you call in now, we'll double your ac bonus with our new epic arms and armor!
But wait, there's more. If you call in now, we'll double your ac bonus with our new epic arms and armor!
NOW what would you pay? We kill the other guy, take his stuff, and pass the savings on to you! LOL!
But what about defending shield spikes? Don't they count as weapons?
Technically, yes. However, the defending bonus is not automatically granted. Pathfinder Core Rules, pg. 470 states:
"As a free action, the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon's enhancement bonus at the start of the turn before using the weapon, and the bonus to AC lasts until his next turn." (emphasis mine)A strict interpretation of the rules requires the individual to make an attack with the weapon to benefit from the defending ability. There is no benefit gained from simply holding/wearing the item or using a shield with defending shield spikes only for defense. To gain the benefit of the defending ability, the shield user must either 1) make a full attack action using Two-Weapon Fighting with the shield spikes as the "off-hand" weapon or 2) attack only with the shield spikes.
Also, a strict interpretation of the rules would disallow the stacking of the bashing ability with the use of shield spikes as a single attack. The weapon chart counts shields and shield spikes as different weapons.
In summary, a weapon/shield Two-Weapon Fighting build is viable, but not as powerful as some would make it out to be.
+5/+5 defending quarter staff, +5 defending spiked gauntlet, +5 defending armor spikes, +5 defending light mithral shield, +5 defending dagger, +5 defending Iron Beard (or whatever that monstrosity in the Cheliaxian book is) +5 defending helmet spikes, +5 defending combat boots, +5 defending amulet of the mighty fist... +50 AC to a level 20 wizard you have to face (on touch AC too!)? No thank you...
See above. You only gain a benefit from a defending weapon that you use to attack with; it's not an automatic, passive bonus. Now, an advanced marilith full attacking with five +5 defending longswords as her secondary weapons and an amulet of mighty fists +4 defending (see pg. 496, "An amulet of mighty fists cannot have a modified bonus... higher than +5.") can pile on an extra +29 to AC...
|
+5/+5 defending quarter staff, +5 defending spiked gauntlet, +5 defending armor spikes, +5 defending light mithral shield, +5 defending dagger, +5 defending Iron Beard (or whatever that monstrosity in the Cheliaxian book is) +5 defending helmet spikes, +5 defending combat boots, +5 defending amulet of the mighty fist... +50 AC to a level 20 wizard you have to face (on touch AC too!)? No thank you...See above. You only gain a benefit from a defending weapon that you use to attack with; it's not an automatic, passive bonus.
So you whack the air, attack done.
So you whack the air, attack done.+5/+5 defending quarter staff, +5 defending spiked gauntlet, +5 defending armor spikes, +5 defending light mithral shield, +5 defending dagger, +5 defending Iron Beard (or whatever that monstrosity in the Cheliaxian book is) +5 defending helmet spikes, +5 defending combat boots, +5 defending amulet of the mighty fist... +50 AC to a level 20 wizard you have to face (on touch AC too!)? No thank you...See above. You only gain a benefit from a defending weapon that you use to attack with; it's not an automatic, passive bonus.
Uh-huh... Allocate each attack against your allowed actions in a round, please. Mr. Wizard, it looks like you can only cast a Quickened spell this round as your swift action (do you have any prepared?), since you are performing at least a standard action to make one or more attacks. Sorry, you can only attack with a maximum of two weapons as a full round action (fighting with two weapons). Even if you have some monk levels, you can only attack with two monk weapons (+5 defending/+5 defending quarterstaff) and unarmed attacks (amulet of mighty fists +4 defending); which individual attacks in your flurry come from which source?
|
|
But what about defending shield spikes? Don't they count as weapons?Technically, yes. However, the defending bonus is not automatically granted. Pathfinder Core Rules, pg. 470 states:
"As a free action, the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon's enhancement bonus at the start of the turn before using the weapon, and the bonus to AC lasts until his next turn." (emphasis mine)A strict interpretation of the rules requires the individual to make an attack with the weapon to benefit from the defending ability. There is no benefit gained from simply holding/wearing the item or using a shield with defending shield spikes only for defense. To gain the benefit of the defending ability, the shield user must either 1) make a full attack action using Two-Weapon Fighting with the shield spikes as the "off-hand" weapon or 2) attack only with the shield spikes.
Also, a strict interpretation of the rules would disallow the stacking of the bashing ability with the use of shield spikes as a single attack. The weapon chart counts shields and shield spikes as different weapons.
In summary, a weapon/shield Two-Weapon Fighting build is viable, but not as powerful as some would make it out to be.
Um no, you're both wrong shield spikes aren't a seperate item on the weapon chart from shields, there's sheilds, and then theres an entry for spiked shields. and the description for a spiked shield is
Spiked Shield, Heavy or Light: You can bash with a
spiked shield instead of using it for defense. See page 152
for details.
So you can't enchant shield spikes seperately, you enchant the shield itself, In fact in pathfinder even if you have a light spiked shield it isn't a light weapon so you have to take a -4 penalty when you TWF.
And also remember that while you can have a shield enhanced as a weapon, or as armor, you can't exceed +5 total bonus without epic level abilities.|
|
So you whack the air, attack done.+5/+5 defending quarter staff, +5 defending spiked gauntlet, +5 defending armor spikes, +5 defending light mithral shield, +5 defending dagger, +5 defending Iron Beard (or whatever that monstrosity in the Cheliaxian book is) +5 defending helmet spikes, +5 defending combat boots, +5 defending amulet of the mighty fist... +50 AC to a level 20 wizard you have to face (on touch AC too!)? No thank you...See above. You only gain a benefit from a defending weapon that you use to attack with; it's not an automatic, passive bonus.
So you'll be fine if a player whacks the air to get a free bonus to AC from fighting defensively, or you'll be fine with them whacking the air to get a free bonus to Combat expertise. Heck remind me in your games to constantly be attacking the air when not in combat so that my AC to surprise attacks gets to stay 4 higher.
No it doesn't.
If you're denied a dexterity bonus to AC (like, if you're surprised), you also lose dodge bonuses (like what Combat Expertise gives you).
You only gain a benefit from a defending weapon that you use to attack with; it's not an automatic, passive bonus. Now, an advanced marilith full attacking with five +5 defending longswords as her secondary weapons and an amulet of mighty fists +4 defending (see pg. 496, "An amulet of mighty fists cannot have a modified bonus... higher than +5.") can pile on an extra +29 to AC...
Hmm. The text (p. 470) says the wielder chooses how to allocate the bonus at the start of his turn before using the weapon. Does he have to attack with the weapon in order to get the bonus, or is "wielding" it enough? IOW, does having it ready (in hand) grant any AC bonus he decides on, or does he have to attack with it in order to get any AC bonus?
I say wielding is enough. That is using. Its a great way for a duelist to have a proper ac bonus, as any reasonable duelist would use a defending dagger in their off-hand. Like real ones used the main-gauche or sword-breaker as a defensive weapon. However that being said, there is a tendency to go overboard. I agree with the be careful what you wish for line of reasoning. You can use it, but just remember if you do, the DM then has to come up with something that will challenge you, and it just may kill the rest of your party. Also, having made Capt Golarion. I can tell you you don't need all that nonsense. Be a warblade, specialize in using a shield, and then become a bloodstorm blade. You can throw that shield all you want, and not worry about it. And you're not so OP that its ridiculous.
+5/+5 defending quarter staff, +5 defending spiked gauntlet, +5 defending armor spikes, +5 defending light mithral shield, +5 defending dagger, +5 defending Iron Beard (or whatever that monstrosity in the Cheliaxian book is) +5 defending helmet spikes, +5 defending combat boots, +5 defending amulet of the mighty fist... +50 AC to a level 20 wizard you have to face (on touch AC too!)? No thank you...See above. You only gain a benefit from a defending weapon that you use to attack with; it's not an automatic, passive bonus. Now, an advanced marilith full attacking with five +5 defending longswords as her secondary weapons and an amulet of mighty fists +4 defending (see pg. 496, "An amulet of mighty fists cannot have a modified bonus... higher than +5.") can pile on an extra +29 to AC...
No I've used weapons without attacking before. It's called blocking. Very useful that, and it's good when you are acting defensively (say casting defensively) to block with something other than your arms... cause they get cut up when you do that, and that would show a failing in your defensiveness.
No I've used weapons without attacking before. It's called blocking. Very useful that, and it's good when you are acting defensively (say casting defensively) to block with something other than your arms... cause they get cut up when you do that, and that would show a failing in your defensiveness.
That's how I see it, too. A defending weapon must be wielded (i.e., in hand), not necessarily used for melee.
A smart caster might want such a weapon, particularly a wizard with a staff. It's always held, anyway. Might as well get a little AC from it. If all goes wrong, and she has to face the nightmare of actually fighting, she can transfer the bonus to offense, giving her a slightly better chance to hit.
|
|
So you'll be fine if a player whacks the air to get a free bonus to AC from fighting defensively, or you'll be fine with them whacking the air to get a free bonus to Combat expertise. Heck remind me in your games to constantly be attacking the air when not in combat so that my AC to surprise attacks gets to stay 4 higher.So you whack the air, attack done.+5/+5 defending quarter staff, +5 defending spiked gauntlet, +5 defending armor spikes, +5 defending light mithral shield, +5 defending dagger, +5 defending Iron Beard (or whatever that monstrosity in the Cheliaxian book is) +5 defending helmet spikes, +5 defending combat boots, +5 defending amulet of the mighty fist... +50 AC to a level 20 wizard you have to face (on touch AC too!)? No thank you...See above. You only gain a benefit from a defending weapon that you use to attack with; it's not an automatic, passive bonus.
Sure, you can do that, if you want the other players at your table to beat you to a pulp for slowing down game sessions by forcing everything to be done in turn sequence.
Also the defensive attack and combat expertise are dodge bonuses. If you are surprise attacked, you will lose you dodge bonuses, because any time you are denied your dex to AC you lose dodge bonuses.
Funny how that works...
|
"a shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enchantment bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and it's enchantment bonus ac."
To get a +4 shield with a +4 spike: +1 defending, you would need to make it +9 armor. 81kgp for the armor costs and 50k for the spike. Who has 131k laying about?
For me, I would not even allow it for another reason. I do not allow armor spell stacking. Your shield's +4 shield spell would make the +1 Defender shield spell impossible.
Wasn't there a rule somewhere in 3.x that said a bonus from the same source didn't stack with itself? Couldn't a DM rule that defending on multiple items is the same source and thus doesn't stack? Even without that rule, I think that I, as a DM, would say that the magic word in the defending property description is ...
A defending weapon allows the wielder to transfer some or all of the weapon's enhancement bonus to his AC as a bonus that stacks with all others.
Emphasis mine. So the defending weapon's bonus stacks with all bonuses other than those that come from defending.
all other bonuses... however I wouldn't disagree with a dm ruling otherwise.
|
|
Uh-huh... Allocate each attack against your allowed actions in a round, please. Mr. Wizard, it looks like you can only cast a Quickened spell this round as your swift action (do you have any prepared?), since you are performing at least a standard action to make one or more attacks. Sorry, you can only attack with a maximum of two weapons as a full round action (fighting with two weapons). Even if you have some monk levels, you can only attack with two monk weapons (+5 defending/+5 defending quarterstaff) and unarmed attacks (amulet of mighty fists +4 defending); which individual attacks in your flurry come from which source?So you whack the air, attack done.+5/+5 defending quarter staff, +5 defending spiked gauntlet, +5 defending armor spikes, +5 defending light mithral shield, +5 defending dagger, +5 defending Iron Beard (or whatever that monstrosity in the Cheliaxian book is) +5 defending helmet spikes, +5 defending combat boots, +5 defending amulet of the mighty fist... +50 AC to a level 20 wizard you have to face (on touch AC too!)? No thank you...See above. You only gain a benefit from a defending weapon that you use to attack with; it's not an automatic, passive bonus.
Dragonchess is correct and takes the thread-cake! :)
PS: there is no such thing as "whacking the air" in D&D. You must target a creature or an object to make an attack.
Edit: in D&D, that is... in D&D... I don't want to get into an argument about "whacking" per se... :P
So you are going on the record saying the only way to use a staff is to attack with it? I couldn't have say a staff of power defending +5... and use it to cast say... ray of enfeeblement?
Not all "use" requires an attack roll, and someone that wants to get technical without having any rule to actually back them up is going to get pissy players.
That said I still say a DM would be well within his rights to say "Defending will not stack with other Defending items" and a smart player would go with it.
There is also no such thing as Fighting Defensively without attacking or using combat expertise without taking a swing first which I find to be nothing but stupidity in the extreme.
That said I still say a DM would be well within his rights to say "Defending will not stack with other Defending items" and a smart player would go with it.
I think this is probably how I will houserule it in my game, when I get around to running that is. Just nip it in the bud before it becomes an issue.
So you are going on the record saying the only way to use a staff is to attack with it? I couldn't have say a staff of power defending +5... and use it to cast say... ray of enfeeblement?
Not all "use" requires an attack roll, and someone that wants to get technical without having any rule to actually back them up is going to get pissy players.
That said I still say a DM would be well within his rights to say "Defending will not stack with other Defending items" and a smart player would go with it.
There is also no such thing as Fighting Defensively without attacking or using combat expertise without taking a swing first which I find to be nothing but stupidity in the extreme.
Either way, I think this was previously stated, Defending weapons range from +1 - +5. Defending bonuses stack with all other bonuses, however you won't get a higher defending boost to your AC higher then +5 because it isn't EPIC. So you can have a defending shield, Defending staff, defending dagger, defending necklace or whatever you want to dream up for defending...it still doesn't change the fact that once you reach +5 AC in defending it won't go any higher. You can't have a +3 scimitar of defending and a +1 dagger or shield of defending and give yourself a +4 bonus to AC. The +1 doesn't stack, the +3 overwrites the +1. All you are ever going to get for a defending bonus is up to +5, from the highest source.....unless you have an epic weapon of defending, then go ahead, pay the cash and find that epic wizard to make the item.
So, what's the consensus on "wielding?"
I think most characters, when they're expecting trouble at any moment, would likely have their weapons out and ready. Would a player with a defending sword, declaring he is applying the bonus to defense, gain it in the case of an unseen attack, or does he not get it because he can't attack in the surprise round?
Wielding is carrying the weapon. Not sheathed. However, if he stated the round before that his defending weapon bonus was applied to AC, he would have his defending bonus still intact since it goes until his next turn. However, surprise round...he didn't have a chance to say "my defending weapons are + to AC" so therefore he is surprised and doesn't get his defense bonus. Now after the round then yes.
cutting out some quote to save space
You do realize that only weapons specifically state that they can't have an enhancement bonus above ten right? Even that goes out the window in the case of a holy +5 longsword being used against a balor (becomes +7 against the balor, and gets an extra +2d6 damage to boot). Certain spells self limit the amount of bonus you can get from them, but even in these cases it is frequently above +5. No where does it state that you can't get a bonus above +5 without being 'epic' (whatever that is... I've seen some pretty 'epic' 10th level builds).
Note: Inherent bonuses are generally limited to +5 only, however even on these there are exceptions as the sorcerer has a bloodline that gives a +6 inherent bonus to Strength.
|
|
cutting out some quote to save spaceYou do realize that only weapons specifically state that they can't have an enhancement bonus above ten right? Even that goes out the window in the case of a holy +5 longsword being used against a balor (becomes +7 against the balor, and gets an extra +2d6 damage to boot). Certain spells self limit the amount of bonus you can get from them, but even in these cases it is frequently above +5. No where does it state that you can't get a bonus above +5 without being 'epic' (whatever that is... I've seen some pretty 'epic' 10th level builds).
Note: Inherent bonuses are generally limited to +5 only, however even on these there are exceptions as the sorcerer has a bloodline that gives a +6 inherent bonus to Strength.
hrm?
What are we talking about here?
Either way, I think this was previously stated, Defending weapons range from +1 - +5. Defending bonuses stack with all other bonuses, however you won't get a higher defending boost to your AC higher then +5 because it isn't EPIC. So you can have a defending shield, Defending staff, defending dagger, defending necklace or whatever you want to dream up for defending...it still doesn't change the fact that once you reach +5 AC in defending it won't go any higher. You can't have a +3 scimitar of defending and a +1 dagger or shield of defending and give yourself a +4 bonus to AC. The +1 doesn't stack, the +3 overwrites the +1. All you are ever going to get for a defending bonus is up to +5, from the highest source.....unless you have an epic weapon of defending, then go ahead, pay the cash and find that epic wizard to make the item.
Don't know how I did that Dissinger this comment was what I meant to post my above reply too.
|
|
So you'll be fine if a player whacks the air to get a free bonus to AC from fighting defensively, or you'll be fine with them whacking the air to get a free bonus to Combat expertise. Heck remind me in your games to constantly be attacking the air when not in combat so that my AC to surprise attacks gets to stay 4 higher.So you whack the air, attack done.+5/+5 defending quarter staff, +5 defending spiked gauntlet, +5 defending armor spikes, +5 defending light mithral shield, +5 defending dagger, +5 defending Iron Beard (or whatever that monstrosity in the Cheliaxian book is) +5 defending helmet spikes, +5 defending combat boots, +5 defending amulet of the mighty fist... +50 AC to a level 20 wizard you have to face (on touch AC too!)? No thank you...See above. You only gain a benefit from a defending weapon that you use to attack with; it's not an automatic, passive bonus.
IIRC, you *must* spend an attack action to receive the bonus from Combat Expertise or Fighting Defensively but you do *not* need to target an enemy with the attack; spending/wasting the standard or full-attack action is enough (I think I saw this in Dragon, and it's a reply from Skip Williams to this very thing, i.e. if you can receive the defensive bonuses without attacking anyone).
|
|
Don't know how I did that Dissinger this comment was what I meant to post my above reply too.
Either way, I think this was previously stated, Defending weapons range from +1 - +5. Defending bonuses stack with all other bonuses, however you won't get a higher defending boost to your AC higher then +5 because it isn't EPIC. So you can have a defending shield, Defending staff, defending dagger, defending necklace or whatever you want to dream up for defending...it still doesn't change the fact that once you reach +5 AC in defending it won't go any higher. You can't have a +3 scimitar of defending and a +1 dagger or shield of defending and give yourself a +4 bonus to AC. The +1 doesn't stack, the +3 overwrites the +1. All you are ever going to get for a defending bonus is up to +5, from the highest source.....unless you have an epic weapon of defending, then go ahead, pay the cash and find that epic wizard to make the item.
Gotcha, fair enough. I just needed some context to put your post to.