I'm for renaming them "thief."
Why? Any particulat reason? Or is the term going out of vogue.
Maybe theif is less prone to misspelling than rouge.I'm for renaming them "thief."Why? Any particulat reason? Or is the term going out of vogue.
French words, pronunciation and spelling that are inconsistent to the English speaking mind.
Thief is too humdrum. How about...
knave, hooligan, scoundrel, rapscallion, or scalawag?
I miss the Logue. I wish he were still churning out an adventure a month for Paizo. Pett, too. I demand they be enslaved at once!
P.S. "Logue" rhymes with both "rogue" and "pogue." Coincidence? I think not.
finally....a kindred spirit.
Pogue mahone!
And a 'Qubla taezi' to you right back! :P
P.S. "Logue" rhymes with both "rogue" and "pogue." Coincidence? I think not.
I disagree!
It takes discipline to be a thief. To be a rogue, all one really needs to be is lazy.
A -thief- is active (quick, agile). A -rogue- is wayward, and usually fat.
But, I can see how a -fat gamer-, a rogue, would want to portray a 'game rogue' as a thief, because then he can pretend to be -quick and agile-.
The psychology of this is pretty straight forward.
It takes discipline to be a thief. To be a rogue, all one really needs to be is lazy.
A -thief- is active (quick, agile). A -rogue- is wayward, and usually fat.
But, I can see how a -fat gamer-, a rogue, would want to portray a 'game rogue' as a thief, because then he can pretend to be -quick and agile-.
The psychology of this is pretty straight forward.
Is that Conan?
As a declared enemy of stereotypes and I'll always prefer the name Rogue, unless anyone else has a name befitting of an all-purpose adventuring class.
As a declared enemy of stereotypes and I'll always prefer the name Rogue, unless anyone else has a name befitting of an all-purpose adventuring class.
Thief
I have to agree with Nasty Pajamas, "rogue" denotes lazy people. His fat guy hit the mark.
As a declared enemy of stereotypes ...
Being that you named yourself Dogbert, this made me chuckle.
|
I'm for renaming them "thief."
Well, as a bit of a Grognard... yes I agree.
As a bit of a linguistics geek, though, I disagree.
Rogue represents a greater range of abilities, skill sets, traits, etc. It can as easily stand for someone who Bluffs, Intimidates and otherwise uses non-'thief' skills to accomplish their goals as it does someone who Opens Locks, Picks Pockets and Disables Devices.
Rogues are multi-dimensional and the word represents that well in my opinion.
I can, as I stated in the beginning, see both sides of the coin. Perhaps something less easily typoed would be nice, though.
Rogue represents a greater range of abilities, skill sets, traits, etc. It can as easily stand for someone who Bluffs, Intimidates and otherwise uses non-'thief' skills to accomplish their goals as it does someone who Opens Locks, Picks Pockets and Disables Devices.
Rogues are multi-dimensional and the word represents that well in my opinion.
I can, as I stated in the beginning, see both sides of the coin. Perhaps something less easily typoed would be nice, though.
I feel compelled to say again that rogues are fat and smelly. That is why they are called rogues.
Including this title into the game is quite frankly yet another stupid thing WotC has done.
It seems, if they had a time machine, wotc's game developers would go back in time and murder Gary Gygax.
I say we rename them Bob.
I feel compelled to say again that rogues are fat and smelly. That is why they are called rogues.
What are you talking about? The definition of rogue doesn't even suggest to me what you're saying.
I prefer the term "rogue" to "thief" because it suggests someone is underhanded while calling someone a thief comes right out and says they're, well, a thief. I don't think there's anything about the class that requires theft on the part of the character. I think the third adjective definition below fits my image of a rogue character in D&D best.
rogue
n.1. An unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal.
2. One who is playfully mischievous; a scamp.
3. A wandering beggar; a vagrant.
4. A vicious and solitary animal, especially an elephant that has separated itself from its herd.
5. An organism, especially a plant, that shows an undesirable variation from a standard.adj.
1. Vicious and solitary. Used of an animal, especially an elephant.
2. Large, destructive, and anomalous or unpredictable: a rogue wave; a rogue tornado.
3. Operating outside normal or desirable controls: "How could a single rogue trader bring down an otherwise profitable and well-regarded institution?" (Saul Hansell).v. rogued, rogu·ing, rogues
v. tr.
1. To defraud.
2. To remove (diseased or abnormal specimens) from a group of plants of the same variety.v. intr.
To remove diseased or abnormal plants.[Origin unknown.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
I feel compelled to say again that rogues are fat and smelly. That is why they are called rogues.What are you talking about? The definition of rogue doesn't even suggest to me what you're saying.
I prefer the term "rogue" to "thief" because it suggests someone is underhanded while calling someone a thief comes right out and says they're, well, a thief. I don't think there's anything about the class that requires theft on the part of the character. I think the third adjective definition below fits my image of a rogue character in D&D best.
Excellent post. Let me go through the definition line by line.
1. An unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal.
In my mind, I see a fat person like Jabba the Hut. Or, an obese person.
2. One who is playfully mischievous; a scamp.
In my mind, I see a lazy person like that one loser at my highschool. You know, the whinny, overweight emo guy.
3. A wandering beggar; a vagrant.
In my mind, I see a smelly homeless guy. The kind making you cross the street, so they can't ask you for money. Get a job - lazy and smelly.
4. A vicious and solitary animal, especially an elephant that has separated itself from its herd.
Smelly.
5. An organism, especially a plant, that shows an undesirable variation from a standard.
In my mind, I see a freekish parasite that must be killed for the common good.
Although, I have to admit, 'rogue plants' sound like a cool idea.
How about "Daredevil"? I think the name fits the Rogue class quite well, and doesn't involve necessarily going around stealing things (or should we start meshing together Disable Device and Sleight of Hand and call then "thievery"???? >_<)
How about "Daredevil"? I think the name fits the Rogue class quite well, and doesn't involve necessarily going around stealing things ...
Shame on you.
Daredevil is a Superhero, not a rogue.
If he were a rogue, he would never have left the blind school, and we would be supporting his being on welfare for the rest of his life (and ours.)
How about "Daredevil"? I think the name fits the Rogue class quite well, and doesn't involve necessarily going around stealing things (or should we start meshing together Disable Device and Sleight of Hand and call then "thievery"???? >_<)
I like the name, even though I keep thinking the character would be proficient in billy club or *shudder* look like Ben Affleck.
. . . (or should we start meshing together Disable Device and Sleight of Hand and call then "thievery"???? >_<)
How, why, and by who do you think these skills were invented? And, for what?? So, David Copperfield could sell tickets?
No, Disable Device and Sleight of Hand were invented by Thieves.
My opinion is its just coincidence you can get common people to buy tickets and watch you do such things on a stage.
I just keep calling them thief, and everybody knows how old I am.
I also think we should go back to "backstabbing."
Use the "sneak attack" mechanic and all, just call it "back stabbing."
It has a beefier feel to it.
So which do you use, then: wizard, mage, or magic-user?
No, Disable Device and Sleight of Hand were invented by Thieves.
Thieves in occident, ninja in orient, so by your logic we might as well start calling them ninja as well. =P
Ok, I can see I have won by your hyperbole. Henceforth, and forevermore, once again they are named: .
Well, actually Heathannson wins yet another thread. Bravo good sir!
This title battle concerning our favorite nefarious agent is yet another reminder of just how deeply wotc's corruption has taken root.
And, on this night I pray:
Even though large tracts of our game and many old and famous class titles have fallen or may fall into the grip of the wotc and all the odious apparatus of their rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in chatrooms, we shall fight on the blogs and boards, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the light, we shall defend our Game, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this great role playing game or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our fellow gamers beyond the American borders, armed and guarded by the internet protocols would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New Pathfinder RPG, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.
Ninja, and that's final. =P
Excellent post. Let me go through the definition line by line.
You do understand that the definition of rogue actually says none of the things you interpret from it, right?
As for elephants, they're smelly whether they're rogue or not.
A rogue elephant is much more like a barbarian than any other class though. A rogue elephant is even moreso like a Frenzied Berserker.
I'm going to stick with rogue. You know why? Because my first significant exposure to D&D was the game Baldur's Gate and Imoen was a thief. It always annoyed me that she was a "thief" because she seemed like a nice girl and not once did she steal while I was playing her. She was sneaky, maybe a little devious, but she wasn't a thief.
I hate the class name thief because, like fighter, it doesn't define a skillset so much as an expectation. A fighter fights. A thief steals? No, I'd much prefer the class be called rogue or knave. A knave can steal, but that isn't the only thing a knave can do.
knave
n.1. An unprincipled, crafty fellow.
2.
1. A male servant.
2. A man of humble birth.
3. Games See jack.[Middle English, from Old English cnafa, boy, male servant.]
knav'ish adj., knav'ish·ly adv., knav'ish·ness n.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Word Origin & History
knave
O.E. cnafa "boy, male servant," common Gmc. (cf. O.H.G. knabo "boy, youth, servant," Ger. knabe "boy, lad," also probably related to O.E. cnapa "boy, youth, servant," O.N. knapi "servant boy," Du. knaap "a youth, servant," M.H.G. knappe "a young squire," Ger. Knappe "squire, shield-bearer"). The original meaning may have been "stick, piece of wood." Sense of "rogue, rascal" first recorded c.1205. In playing cards, "the jack," 1568.
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper
All this is from dictionary.com, of course, but I've specifically tried to select definitions that are actual book definitions, not just the dictionary.com definitions. In the word history section of "knave" it says it has had the sense of rogue, rascal since circa 1205. I think that it's also a face card in standard decks of playing cards gives it even more credence.
A rogue might want to be the ace of spades, but in truth it might just be the knave of hearts. If you want, you can call him a thief. After all, he stole some tarts.
My games will have rogues. They may even be knaves. I had a player in one of my games with a character named Deeter the Thief, but that choice to be a thief was his. He was a nuisance pickpocket. (The party threatened to kill him if he kept putting his hands in their pockets.) For some reason he also kept the corpses of rats the party killed so he was walking around with a half dozen dead rats in his bag.
My current game has no rogue though. Lucky for them I'm running a pre-fab with no real need for a rogue. Rogue is one of my favorite classes and usually one of my first choices when I'm at the table as a player.
Excellent post. Let me go through the definition line by line.You do understand that the definition of rogue actually says none of the things you interpret from it, right?
My whole point is this:
- Thief implies skill.
- Rogue/Knave implies laziness.
Because, many skilled soldiers died while carving out and protecting our way of life you have the freedom to choose. Choose wisely.
My whole point is this:
- Thief implies skill.
- Rogue/Knave implies laziness.
I disagree with your whole point.
|
I disagree with your whole point.My whole point is this:
- Thief implies skill.
- Rogue/Knave implies laziness.
I don't think he/she's being serious, I think you've encountered another like me or CourtFool who will "play it straight" even when we are being our ludicrous best.
If not then his/her arguments are just silly and why are you letting them get to you.
I say we call them dragqueens, because it'd be fun to yell out to the party, "that dragqueen just stole my coinpurse"