Also, I dropped the Action points and Reputation rolls. I don’t think they are needed, but you can add Action points in the House Rules editor for Hero Lab if you want them.I think Action Points should remain an optional rule, since their existence is mostly dependent on genre.
It's far easier for a GM to add them in, as a bonus, than to take them out, and be seen as a miser.
The core d20 Modern rules do not make Action Points an "option." Many class talents, abilities, and feats rely on them to function.
For example, the base Dedicated class Talent Faith (emphasis mine):
Faith: The Dedicated hero has a great deal of faith. It might be faith in self, in a higher power, or in both. This unswerving belief allows the Dedicated hero to add his or her Wisdom modifier to the die roll whenever the hero spends 1 action point to improve the result of an attack roll, skill check, saving throw, or ability check.
Now, if you're revising d20 Modern to remove the use of Action points, that's one thing -- just remember to change all the relevant class talents, abilities, and feats that use them to work a different way. This will take some time to make sure it all works in a balanced way. But it is a suggestion worth bearing in mind if you're working on a revision of the system.
If you're making a character data sheet for d20 Modern's existing rules--which I thought was what Kevin Webb was doing at least to some extent--you can't just "take away" action points. Half the character abilities will cease to function as written.
Hey as long as you're clear that you've altered the rules, I've got no problem with it. The conversation overall went in a vague direction, and I couldn't tell if the removal of action points were a fully thought out revision, or if Snorter was just suggesting what he'd like to see, or if you and/or Snorter was suggesting that Action Points were optional in the original d20 Modern ruleset.
I haven't paid the $20 to "unlock" the d20 materials out of demo mode in Hero Lab (I unlocked Mutants and Masterminds when I bought it) so I don't know if I can install the data set, but I will see if I can if I have time (I use PC Gen for d20 Modern generation). I'm sure it's taken a lot of work to get it going!
Schweet! Just stumbled back across this. =)
I'd love to see something along the veins of a supernatural horror kind of game, where the players can take on the role of monstrous characters, like vampires, werewolves, mages, etc. (Yes, I'm a WoD fan.) Monte Cook's d20 take on the White Wolf stuff was great and I'm pretty sure you can't trademark mythological creatures, so Pathfinder would then have a platform to attract d20 World of Darkness fans on the company's own terms and with its own game design values and criteria in mind.
While this is probably a pretty narrow scope, and its unlikely that Pathfinder's d20 Modern would have this genre as its eventual incarnation, it would still be nice to see supernatural horror supported by whatever rules set the masters at Paizo come up with.
Now on sale this weekend from the Pazio store for $3.99.
http://paizo.com/store/sale/gameRoomCreationSale/v5748btpy8khn&source=s earch
We also have the updated Hero Labs dataset at our website: www.gameroomcreations.com
For Memorial Day weekend, from May 26 to May 31, we are having a sale of The Modern Path – Heroes of the Modern World (PFRPG) for $3.99.
It can be found at the Pazio store and other outlets.
The Hero Lab dataset is free and can be found at our website www.gameroomcreations.com
I'm curious.
Please choose one of the following. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts on the following question, if you would.
1) I am interested in a "Modern" Pathfinder RPG because:
A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).
B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.
If the game becomes as successful as it appears it may, something like this is definitely within the realm of possibility in the medium to long term.
Please pick one of the choices above and expound a bit on the way you voted the way you did.
Thanks!
B. I like d20 Modern, however as much as the Stat Class thing works, I know that was a big reason people hated it. I'd like to see it no matter how it turns out, but would love it if you guys could come up with a way to keep the base classes but move them to modern day.
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Frankly, I don't see the need to redo the system much to create a P20 Modern...it could basically just consist of a few character classes (no stat classes, please, that was a horrible concept), an updated list of skills, and some new equipment. For the actual workings of the system it could simply reference the Pathfinder RPG. I think it could be put out as a fairly small book, maybe the size of an AP volume.
Frankly, I don't see the need to redo the system much to create a P20 Modern...it could basically just consist of a few character classes (no stat classes, please, that was a horrible concept), an updated list of skills, and some new equipment. For the actual workings of the system it could simply reference the Pathfinder RPG. I think it could be put out as a fairly small book, maybe the size of an AP volume.
Pretty much I agree. Could even use a model of the current classes, just retool them then do archetypes like fighter you could pick being a soldier or a thug...
The Modern Path 2.0 is Free
During this week (Sept 7-14) the PDF is free. It is at the Pazio store!
The Modern Path 2.0 is Free
During this week (Sept 7-14) the PDF is free. It is at the Pazio store!
This is the best news I've had all day! Thanks!
The Modern Path 2.0 is Free
During this week (Sept 7-14) the PDF is free. It is at the Pazio store!
link please?
http://paizo.com/store/downloads/gameRoomCreations
My mind is still boggled at the freeness. I have grabbed and like what I see so far. I definately dig the single class changed by archetypes idea. Better implemented version of what I had in mind...
Finally, it's in color print at RPGNow, you can get a hard cover color inside and out, pdf and Hero Lab dataset all for $19.99.
Modern Path reads pretty excellent!
Would love to start a new modern campaign with this rule set.
Alas, crafting an adventure is something I just can't squeeze out the time for....
but if someone ELSE did the leg work...hmmmm
I played very little D20 modern and was only future and I like a lot of the things presented there, I hope that someday Paizo publish a Sci fi book, likea combination of D20 Future and Psionics, I believe that Psionics and Technology make a good couple.
Thank you and we are glad you like the rules. The rules are 100% OGL so anyone is free to make adventures or any other material, (sci fi ect). There are already is a magic book by another company out there. We are hoping the core system will catch on and others will create additional material. We just wanted to get the ball rolling for a Modern Pathfinder setting.
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I'm curious.
Please choose one of the following. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts on the following question, if you would.
1) I am interested in a "Modern" Pathfinder RPG because:
A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).
B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.
If the game becomes as successful as it appears it may, something like this is definitely within the realm of possibility in the medium to long term.
Please pick one of the choices above and expound a bit on the way you voted the way you did.
Thanks!
I would have to say mostly A, but with some B thrown in. I think the d20 Modern system, with a Pathfinder update, would be useful for a wide variety of possible genres/settings.
I personally like the idea of a Modern Golarion setting; the current game world updated in development. I think it could be a lot of fun to explore a setting where the events of our current in-game timeline were viewed from the same distance as the events of the Thassilonian period are viewed in-game now.
A great review has been posted for “The Modern Path 2.0”
At: http://roleplayerschronicle.com/?p=14061
I'm curious.
Please choose one of the following. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts on the following question, if you would.
1) I am interested in a "Modern" Pathfinder RPG because:
A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).
B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.
If the game becomes as successful as it appears it may, something like this is definitely within the realm of possibility in the medium to long term.
Please pick one of the choices above and expound a bit on the way you voted the way you did.
Thanks!
Well, I am really coming late to this thread, but I'd still like to toss my 2 coppers in, especially now that Pathfinder has been around awhile and has grown nicely.
I have had a great deal of fun with the d20M system, except for a couple of problem areas. I did not mind the concept of the attribute based classes, but they made it very hard to portray certain facets of real life.
Like being a soldier, for example. A year after enlisting, after finishing boot camp and advanced training, a young soldier will have learned the basics of their trade - firing their weapon, including firing short bursts, firing some of the support weapons, etc. In other words, things that in game terms require too many feats to be learned by any character below 5th level. Mind you, I am not saying that that newbie should be a great soldier, but he should be adequate to the job he is expected to perform.
So, having said that, I guess that I'd have to go with "B" - some of the mechanics need some tweaking to work.
And I guess that I am in the minority when I say that I think that the wealth system worked just fine. I never had a problem with it (except in an "Old West" game we played for a short time) and it was a lot better than having to worry about car payments, electricity bills, credit card payments, etc, etc, etc. I play these games to get away from stuff like that!
As far as the "Sci-Fi" thing goes, I was thinking about a homebrew "Pathfiderized" Traveller T20 (Traveller for the D20 System). Now that was a system that also had potential but never got the respect that it deserved!
I LOVE T20 Traveller! I am still rather angry about the stuff that went on at QLI that kept it from getting the support it could have had before the license expired. Sigh.
Currently, if I were to actually run a modernish type game, I would use the T20 rules with a few modifications to some of the classes.
Although it's been sitting aside for a few months as I've worked on other things, I've worked on a Contemporary/Sci Fi set of mechanics for a Pathfinderized d20 Modern. It does NOT include anything for "urban arcana." (My thought is if anyone really wants to play magic classes in a modern setting, they can use the Pathfinder core classes with the contemporary ruleset.)
It's a somewhat different animal from "the Modern Path" and I have no interest in stepping on its toes. (Although I named my system "ActionPath" when Modern Path was still "Modern Hero" so I need to think about whether I want to change the name if in the hypothetical future I'd want to publish it in any capacity). It still uses many base classes (although I got rid of advanced classes, which I hope will make it more compatible with the core system).
I also use the d20 Modern wealth system because I too never had any problem with it and think it's actually a great way to reflect contemporary fiscal resources. Always worked well in the d20 Modern games I played, anyway.
Anyway, the reason for all this blather is... after I clean things up a bit more, would folks be interested in reviewing the material and help finalize it? I'd probably post it up here on the site for community members to read. Again, I don't want to step on Modern Path's toes but am excited about cleaning up the stuff I've put a lot of work into something playable.
I'd be interested in seeing it, for sure! I'm not the best to rely on for things sometimes, but I can certainly see thinking about it. I love the Modernpath concepts, but have yet to find actual game-time to run the stuff. Still, it's really nifty. I'd be interested in seeing a sci-fi take of yours, too.
I also use the d20 Modern wealth system because I too never had any problem with it and think it's actually a great way to reflect contemporary fiscal resources. Always worked well in the d20 Modern games I played, anyway.
I'm guessing you never had anyone "game the system", so to speak, when it comes to wealth checks. I've had players argue with me about purchasing Blackhawk helicopters at level 1 and another who wanted to purchase an "infinite number" of LAW rockets because there was nothing in the rules that said he couldn't due to his wealth score. Not that I allowed such things...but I did have to deal with the whining about it.
I always thought the wealth system they had was an interesting concept, but deeply flawed. I made a character of average wealth, and through a couple of bad rolls ended up with absolutely no starting equipment.
I also use the d20 Modern wealth system because I too never had any problem with it and think it's actually a great way to reflect contemporary fiscal resources. Always worked well in the d20 Modern games I played, anyway.I'm guessing you never had anyone "game the system", so to speak, when it comes to wealth checks. I've had players argue with me about purchasing Blackhawk helicopters at level 1 and another who wanted to purchase an "infinite number" of LAW rockets because there was nothing in the rules that said he couldn't due to his wealth score. Not that I allowed such things...but I did have to deal with the whining about it.
While no, I've not seen that happen, the rules state the GM limits as to what is ultimately available based on the setting--so if you don't have Blackhawks R Us in your game setting, and the character doesn't have the military or manufacturing background to get such an item, the rules actually DON'T back up, really.
Secondly, if I had a player the really DID want that at first level and designed their character in such a way to get such a thing, I would say, "Absolutely, you can have a Blackhawk helicopter at level 1. I hope your level 1 character also has enough hit points to withstand any SAM missiles fired at your illegally purchased military vehicle." And if they whined further, they would no longer be a player of mine.
So no, with all due respect, I still don't see the problem.
I always thought the wealth system they had was an interesting concept, but deeply flawed. I made a character of average wealth, and through a couple of bad rolls ended up with absolutely no starting equipment.
Something seems off there, because...
If the character’s current Wealth bonus is equal to or greater than the DC, the character automatically succeeds.
Starting Wealth for purchasing starting equipment is...
Wealth provided by the character’s starting occupation.
Bonus from the Windfall feat, if taken.
2d4 die roll.
+1 for having 1 to 4 ranks in the Profession skill.
Unless I've overlooked something, the vast majority of starting occupations give you at least a +1 bonus to Wealth (and many give you more). The 2d4 gives you at a minimum an additional +2. And if you're doing that poorly at starting wealth, hopefully you put at least one rank into Profession for another +1. So the most down on their luck starting character gets a +4 to Wealth, and likely most typical starting characters are going to be around +5 or +6 at the very least.
Let's assume your starting Wealth is +5. This means without rolling any dice, you can automatically own the following (amongst other things):
Day Pack (your basic backpack)
Handbag
Disposable camera
Camera film
Caller ID defeater
Caltrops
Duct tape
First aid kit
Compass
Flashlight
150 feet of rope
Pepper Spray
Brass knuckles
Machete (and a crap ton of other melee weapons while I'm at it)
A small shield
As your wealth bonus decreases only if you buy something greater than your Wealth bonus, you would not lose any Wealth by purchasing any or all of the above items, plus the other items at Wealth DC 5 or less. And there are a large number of items you could purchase if you rolled even just 1-5 on your Wealth check (you'd need a 5 to get a Leather Jacket).
Finally, you can take 10 on your Wealth check (which would even let a character of meager means get access to firearms), and the subsequent Wealth loss would only be -1.
So there's absolutely, in fact, no way you could start the game with no starting equipment unless your GM screwed you over or used house rules.
So no, with all due respect, I still don't see the problem.
The problem is that many people don't understand it and the ones that do always try to abuse it. Also, if they would have stuck with just using money (like in Shadowrun) there wouldn't be any confusion nor arguments about how much something sells for, how much something can cost (that isn't on the list), can Player X help Player Y purchase something, how much does it cost to craft an item, etc. I'm not saying its a bad system, its just not one I prefer nor would I want in any product that I purchased. Also, I don't have a lot of options for players...so I often have to put up with a lot more whining than I would like.
I'll have to respectfully disagree JMD031--and if that stops you from using any rules that I post up, I can certainly live with that.
The Wealth rules on the MSRD at the DND wiki take up one screen. That's less than many skill explanations and certainly less than many spells and other complex game mechanics. The description is pretty clear cut: this is how you calculate your Wealth. You can automatically buy anything equal to or less than your Wealth. Anything more than your Wealth, you make a check (or take 10/20), and subtract at least 1 from your Wealth afterward (consult table for very large purchases). That's it. What is confusing about that?
There's a difference between "people who don't understand" and "people who don't read" the rules. I'm sorry, but the sense I'm getting here is the problem is with people who fit into the latter category.
I also don't see problems with abuse because as I said--if you're a low level character with high level gear, you're going to attract attention and other possibly nasty consequences. I really WOULD let that person have that BlackHawk. And then I'd get out the popcorn as they would try to have to deal with the consequences of keeping and maintaining such a vehicle.
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"Explorer", good name! I had the notion of "Pathfinder: Past, Present, and Future" but Explorer is better.
Explorer makes me think of early 1900s pulp fiction. Indiana Jones type stuff. Not quite modern.
I'd like to see a rules set flexible enough to support any genre. That means a set of generic classes and rules for how to customize them to match the needs of the particular genre. Likely something similar for races/backgrounds.
Imagine rules capable of supporting post-apocalypse, cyberpunk, space opera, sword and planet, westerns, steampunk, time travel, etc.
I've played this. It's not d20 though.
Look up Unisystem. ;)
I'll have to respectfully disagree JMD031--and if that stops you from using any rules that I post up, I can certainly live with that.
The Wealth rules on the MSRD at the DND wiki take up one screen. That's less than many skill explanations and certainly less than many spells and other complex game mechanics. The description is pretty clear cut: this is how you calculate your Wealth. You can automatically buy anything equal to or less than your Wealth. Anything more than your Wealth, you make a check (or take 10/20), and subtract at least 1 from your Wealth afterward (consult table for very large purchases). That's it. What is confusing about that?
There's a difference between "people who don't understand" and "people who don't read" the rules. I'm sorry, but the sense I'm getting here is the problem is with people who fit into the latter category.
I also don't see problems with abuse because as I said--if you're a low level character with high level gear, you're going to attract attention and other possibly nasty consequences. I really WOULD let that person have that BlackHawk. And then I'd get out the popcorn as they would try to have to deal with the consequences of keeping and maintaining such a vehicle.
We can agree to disagree then. But to answer your question about what is confusing about that? How much something sells for, how much something can cost (that isn't on the list), can Player X help Player Y purchase something, how much does it cost to craft an item, etc. These questions are not answered in the book. And also, its not just letting one person have a Blackhawk, its letting a party of people have access to a Blackhawk, which they will protect with their character's lives. There are flaws in all systems but that just seems like a glaring one to me. No starting character in many games allows for this and sure the character has to gimp his character a little bit but in the end, no amount of mooks changes the fact that a beginning character has a military classed warmachine.
Also, truth be told, I'm currently looking at a variety of modern rules systems because I'm getting tired of running "medievel" fantasy games. So, I might take a look at your rules, but that's because I wouldn't want to fault you for a system you didn't help create.
How much something sells for, how much something can cost (that isn't on the list), can Player X help Player Y purchase something, how much does it cost to craft an item, etc. These questions are not answered in the book. And also, its not just letting one person have a Blackhawk, its letting a party of people have access to a Blackhawk, which they will protect with their character's lives. There are flaws in all systems but that just seems like a glaring one to me. No starting character in many games allows for this and sure the character has to gimp his character a little bit but in the end, no amount of changes the fact that a beginning character has a military classed warmachine.
The book can never include every item. My players have asked me for things that are not in the pathfinder rules. The GM has to choose the price.
As to whether or not someone starts with a tank or similar vehicles should be controlled by the story and the GM, just like certain things won't fit all pathfinder games at level one.
As for crafting IIRC it does not reduce the cost like it does in 3.5 or Pathfinder. I will have to check the rules to make sure, but that is because in the real world it is cheaper to buy something from a company than to try to produce it yourself most of the time.
PS:I just checked the book. Each item has a purchase DC that tells you how much it cost for RAW materials to build the item.
PS2:Any system can be gamed if you are playing with munchkins and you allow them to do it. I would remind them that the bad guys have more money, and their(the PC's) tactic is not that unique. Unless they want to face similar tactics from someone who has far more resources they might want to think about their actions.
Thank you everyone for the feedback on the Modern Path's new book, (The Modern Path: Arcana of the Modern World). Seems everyone is enjoying the new book and Hero Lab dataset.
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Paizo doesn't have to make a Pathfinder Modern game.
GMSarli Games has already done it for them (if you're not familiar, he's one of the lead designers that made Star Wars Saga, which itself is based on d20 Modern). Look it up. You should be able to find it under "E20 System Roleplaying Evolved." It's everything d20 Modern should have been.
It's being released in April, I believe.
Yeah I talked to Gary on FB last night. There were some unforeseen circumstances that delayed its release but for folks looking for Pathfinder Modern I don't think you're going to get it in e20 since that doesn't have Combat Maneuvers or anything else uniquely Pathfinder, whereas Modern Path does.
