Dear Paizo: Please "Pathfinderize" D20 Modern


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Erik Mona wrote:

I'm curious.

Please choose one of the following. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts on the following question, if you would.

1) I am interested in a "Modern" Pathfinder RPG because:

A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).

B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.

If the game becomes as successful as it appears it may, something like this is definitely within the realm of possibility in the medium to long term.

Please pick one of the choices above and expound a bit on the way you voted the way you did.

Thanks!

Eric,

For me it's A & B.

Why A?
I prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern for pulp/modern/sci-fi gaming primarily b/c I find them intuitive to assign to characters and archetypes. While classic archetypes work well for fantasy, I'd hate to wait on a specific genre book with setting/genre specific classes. I'd certainly buy them of course, I just don't want to have to WAIT.

Why B?
1. Given how the Pathfinder RPG turned out I have total confidence in Paizo's ability to do an enhancement & tweaking of d20 Modern. Specifically, firearms rules & combat, nonlethal damage, etc.
2. Paizo's adventure themes and tastes dovetail very closely to mine in the realm of Fantasy RPGs. Based on Planet Stories, staff posts, etc. I suspect that will hold true for pulp, modern, post-apoc, and sci-fi as well.
3. Paizo respects the sources of inspiration without losing sight of the critical elements necessary to make the game fun. There's a wealth of D20 Modern 3rd-party stuff out there, but no overarching vision holding them together.
4. I like the D20 Modern game well enough that like, 3.5-based/inspired systems, I'd like to continue to see core rulebooks and supplements in print.

Hope that helps.

Liberty's Edge

A. Most definitely A. The PRPG mechanics are that far of a cry from the d20 Modern - so B, in many ways, is less relevant to why Modern should get an upgrade.

That said, I don't want to dismiss the benefits of CMB/CMD and the new approach to skills. But I do like Modern's class system and traits.

To be honest, the biggest thing I've wanted is a way to cross-pollinate the two playgrounds. It took me some time to iron out the critical difference, that being the defense bonus. What has worked is to make the class defense bonus for D&D classes equal to 1/2 the BAB (for those classes). I have since considered CMD, but given the special purpose of CMD, I don't think it'll fit.


YES COLUMN:
D20 Modern Base, Advanced, & Prestige Classes
Talent Trees
Action Points
Defense Bonus

NO COLUMN:
D20 Modern Firearm rules
D20 Modern Vehicle Rules
D20 Modern Spaceship Rules
D20 Modern Non-lethal Damage Rules

ON-THE FENCE COLUMN:
Wealth System - I like it but it's not a must-have
Gadget System - Easy customization but probably better methods

NECESSARY CLEAN-UP IMPROVEMENTS:
Multi-classing (Fractional bonuses?)
Firearms & Firearm related combat
Chases
Opposed skills
Pathfinderized mechanics (CMB,etc.)

Liberty's Edge

Quote:


A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).

I thought D20 Modern was a great bridge between the D20 system and classless/levelless modern games. I like the class/level approach to building characters, but the stripped-down Hero classes make the game far more flexible for a given setting.

The lower power of the classes help, as well. It's a good neutral level for an "ordinary" game, and it's easier to boost characters for a high powered campaign that it is to do the opposite.

That said, I wouldn't dismiss a new system. I just have my preferences.


Erik Mona wrote:

I'm curious.

Please choose one of the following. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts on the following question, if you would.

1) I am interested in a "Modern" Pathfinder RPG because:

A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).

B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.

If the game becomes as successful as it appears it may, something like this is definitely within the realm of possibility in the medium to long term.

Please pick one of the choices above and expound a bit on the way you voted the way you did.

Thanks!

I would choose B.

I haven't played very much D20 Modern at all - I only own the original book, none of the supplements. But I really like the idea of a Post Apocalyptic setting, and something that had a good strong rules set to help me get it going would be great. I'm not too picky about which rules set - though since we all know the d20 system already it makes sense to keep that as a basis.

Scarab Sages

James Jacobs wrote:

Several years back, before d20 Modern even, I wrote up a post-apocalyptic "Cthulhu meets Road Warrior meets Fallout" type game called "Unspeakable Futures." It was a blast. I recently updated these rules to Pathfinder's ruleset and ran a game at Paizocon a month or so ago, and had PCs with pet robots, making sneak attacks with shotguns, doing a car chase along a narrow mountain road, and blowing up mutants and mi-go with rocket launchers. It was a blast, and the PRPG rules handled it very well.

We've got a lot of other things to take care of before we do much of anything in a print format with a sci-fi or modern game version of the PRPG, but as far as I can tell, the rules will handle it pretty well.

THAT'S AWWWWWWWWWWESOMMMMMMEEE!!!!

I would buy that in a second!!! And that makes me even more sad that I missed PaizoCon...

A pulp Pathfinder Society would be great...Especially if it took us to the Red Planet "Akiton by Gaslamp"


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

I am interested in a "Modern" Pathfinder RPG because:

A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).

I vote "A". I've recently started playing a weekend game with d20 modern and dusted off my collection of all the core books. (wotc produced) I also just recently picked up my copy of the PFRPG and really like the changes that have been made. I think it'd be great to have a "updated" rule-set that would work easily with the books I already own and bring new life to the game again. Having adventure modules produced for d20 modern by Paizo would also be a BIG plus.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that I really like the d20 Modern starting profession system, base classes, and talent trees. It makes it very easy to design a character concept first, then fill in how the character reached that point by picking the proper profession and multi-class mix of base classes and talents. That done, you could come very close to replicating any type of character you wanted.


As far as settings go, I can think of a few ;) I also would love to see a Pulp setting (maybe something like Atomic Overmind's "Day After Ragnarok") or something more traditional. A good d20 Horror game needs to be made beyond "d20 CoC", and I think this is an area that Paizo would be awesome at ;) Sci-Fi would also be cool, but as I said earlier, something maybe a like a "Stellar Outland" or "Radioactive Lands" could be fun ;) The game that James Jacobs was running also sounds great, as would something with mecha ... hmm ... I wonder if there's a way to combine the PFCR and d20Future's Mecha rules to make a setting I've been kicking around ...


It's a little of both but if I had to pick one:

A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).

Talent trees were the #1 thing I liked about d20M. I consider it a mark of good class design to create classes in such a way that a single class can represent several different takes on a common theme. Three different soldiers may have completely different training and fighting styles, but it preempts class bloat if you can create them all from a pool of options.

Another important aspect of d20M's rules is that it provided a good low/no-magic setting. Even if I was playing a game set in ancient Rome or fuedal Japan, this change (and the fact that the game is balanced around it) is very important.

With that said, while I only ever DM in phantasy settings, I love getting to play in games where a character from a magical setting ends up in our world! With that in mind, I'd say that a Pathfinderized version should be certain to include rules on handling such things along the lines of the multiple conceits about what happens to the character's supernatural powers:

* They come over with all their powers intact.
* Their powers are replaced by mundane equivalents (i.e. character conversion notes).
* The mundane world leaches the supernatural from them over time.
* Their presence starts unlocking latent supernatural forces in the mundane world. (In all likelihood this would probably be best-accomplished as an adventure path. It might also include notes on converting from Pathfinder Modern to Pathfinder RPG.)


I haven't played D20 Modern in years now, hell, honestly I haven't RPed for a few years.

That being said, it was the the release of Pathfinder that got me all hot and bothered about RPG's again. I love what Jason did with the 3.5 rules. Hell, now I might play something other then just a fighter/rogue or ranger, as the other classes look a LOT more exciting
then they used to (yeah, I know the Ranger actually kinda blew in 3.x, but I'm a real sucker for the wilderness warrior concept, especially as a Drizzt fan).

So a Pathfinderization of D20 Modern I think would be great, and since there aren't really adventures for it, and conversion of source books (not including monsters) is at least in my opinion kinda fun, then I don't think you'd have to worry about the backwards compatability as much.

Things I'd like to see changed:

The Stat Based Class System, though good for flexibility, ends up penalizing characters for having a diverse character concept, in that BAB and Saves end up rather screwed.

The Wealth System was HORRIBLE, far too abstract and clunky.

Martial Arts TOTALLY need more love!

The fact that if you were in a Modern Fantasy setting and wanted to be a spellcaster, you pretty much waste 3 levels.

I think Advanced Classes need to be made a little more general. Instead of the Gunslinger getting a certain set of abilities at certain levels, how about giving him some kind of gunfighting talent tree. I always thought that Prestige Classes should be where the specialization of the class is so set that you just have to take what you get.

Things I'd like to stay the same:

Talent trees

The general idea of the Advanced and Prestige Class system

The compatibility and ability to use it in ANY post-industrial setting. I wouldn't mind if you guys had a section with a Modern Pathfinder setting (like the three mini-settings provided in the d20 Modern book) but PLEASE don't make it a default, I like that D20 Modern works for many many many things.


Saurstalk wrote:
To be honest, the biggest thing I've wanted is a way to cross-pollinate the two playgrounds. It took me some time to iron out the critical difference, that being the defense bonus. What has worked is to make the class defense bonus for D&D classes equal to 1/2 the BAB (for those classes).

Actually, they've got a defense bonus system in Unearthed Arcana.

Grand Lodge

Erik Mona wrote:

I'm curious.

Please choose one of the following. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts on the following question, if you would.

1) I am interested in a "Modern" Pathfinder RPG because:

A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).

B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.

If the game becomes as successful as it appears it may, something like this is definitely within the realm of possibility in the medium to long term.

Please pick one of the choices above and expound a bit on the way you voted the way you did.

Thanks!

B.

While I really liked the talent-trees and and the defense bonus mechanism I never cared for the classes or the wealth system. I'd like to see the generic classes from unearthed arcana or something similar as base classes that you can build into advanced and prestige classes. However, I am completely open to a new way to do modern classes. I think the Pathfinder skill system is better than the modern although I'd add in complex skill checks.
I would really like a set of rules that I can use for adventures over multiple genres without having to switch rules. I'd pay for a book the size of the pathfinder RPG if that one book that would let me jump from near-future cyberpunk to 18th century privateers with ease.
My biggest concern is the support for any modern rules. Will there be adventures, splatbooks, etc for the rules or will they wither and die from lack of support? The problem with most modern rules has been the fact that most modern rule sets are seen as little more than the crazy relative that no one really likes to talk about. Seriously, the thought of being able to play a Pathfinder: Modern APs gives me chills! I would happily spend piles of money and buy just about anything put out in support of a Pathfinder: Modern.

Just talk that there might be at some time in the future the possibility of modern rules makes me happy! Which gods do we have to appease to make them get here faster?

SM


Mostly thinking out loud here ... but d20 CoC had a cool idea with the one class with a few shifting mechanics behind it. Maybe something like that for a Modern PF system? Rather than 6 different classes, one that can encompass them all?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Erik Mona wrote:

I'm curious.

Please choose one of the following. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts on the following question, if you would.

1) I am interested in a "Modern" Pathfinder RPG because:

A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).

B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.

If the game becomes as successful as it appears it may, something like this is definitely within the realm of possibility in the medium to long term.

Please pick one of the choices above and expound a bit on the way you voted the way you did.

Thanks!

B

I would like to see what Paizo would do when they was not trying to save cows for backwards compitability. I like some of the D20 modern rules and wouldn't object to Paizo cherry picking from them. But I would like to see them their own thing. I have faith at this point they would do a good job with it.


Erik Mona wrote:

I'm curious.

Please choose one of the following. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts on the following question, if you would.

1) I am interested in a "Modern" Pathfinder RPG because:

A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).

B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.

If the game becomes as successful as it appears it may, something like this is definitely within the realm of possibility in the medium to long term.

Please pick one of the choices above and expound a bit on the way you voted the way you did.

Thanks!

Simply B. I say this as I just want to see a well thought out and lovingly done d20 modern game. I have all of the d20 modern books and feel it just doesn't hit right. I love the concept of talent trees, as has been mentioned. Base, advanced, and prestige classes and starting proffesions are good, however Wealth was crap, I dislike the stat based classes, and I felt the FX system just didn't reward casters at all. So if you did Pmodern I would want better base classes, better wealth system, and a better way to handle supernatural/FX. Oh and has been noted vehicle rules of course, and adventure support (The true bane of all modern gaming!)

Sovereign Court

Erik Mona wrote:


B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.

Frankly, right now, Savage Worlds fulfills my need for Modern gaming (everything from Gaslight to post-apocalyptic). But I've really liked everything Paizo has done and would LOVE to see what you guys can do with D20 Modern.


Sign me up for this. I specifically came here today to start a thread about this.

As much as I love the fantasy genre there is just something great about a modern fantasy game. My group plays many games but most of us love the modern rules system, but much like 3.5 we see many things that can be improved upon.

Please consider an Urban Pathfinder game :)


I will try and keep this post short and sweet.
Modern vs Fantasy has always been playing a game of Roshambo and Fantasy has always gone first, not really fair I know but I'll get to my point now.
Medevil fantasy has sold us on the myth of the times, tolkien's reinvetion of english myth that captured us after we lost our storys from the druids which were lost to the romans.
This gives it a certain mystic.

Modern on the other hand doesn't have that for me.
It was alot like white wolf old demon book.
Heres the rules for what you are and what you can do.
And that was it, your left wondering what to do?
Do you fight among yourselves?
Do you fight other white wolf brand?
What do you do?
Modern is alot like that for me, I have looked through there books and found the stat based characters interesting but what I was not sold on was the setting or lack there of.

What is it's stich?
Why do we want to play modern other than those people who already want to play it?
Sell people on why they want to play modern.

I like some TV supernatural dramas such as well supernatural.
But the system as it is will never capture that, there too slow and cumbersome.
Let me play diehard or any brand of Steven Segal's movies or better yet let me play Ong-bak.

We have not just a setting for slaying goblins to dragons we have multiable.
As someone who doesn't play modern but would be interested.
Don't sell me guns and pychics equivalent of swords and sorcery.
Sell me short fuse the action adventure game thats seconds away from exploding.

Well I failed at making short but I do think I got my point across.
Sell me a setting I can sink my teeth into and make it a fast paced game, I am in.


I would have to say B.

I am not a huge fan of the generics (Fast, Strong, etc. classes) of D20 Modern. I would like something like campaign guides that created classes, feats, skills, weapons, etc. for that type of game. It would be cool if they matched up so you could put some stuff from one type into another with minimal to no work for some real off the wall type game. If the game mechanics remain the same as the Pathfinder rules it would be good as you would not need to come up with a whole different set of rules.

I think the fact that WotC does not support it much at all means that there is not much in the way of sales.


I agree with this. Maybe something along the lines of the Dark*Matter book or the FFG Horizon books would be really cool.

Torg Smith wrote:
I would like something like campaign guides that created classes, feats, skills, weapons, etc. for that type of game. It would be cool if they matched up so you could put some stuff from one type into another with minimal to no work for some real off the wall type game. If the game mechanics remain the same as the Pathfinder rules it would be good as you would not need to come up with a whole different set of rules.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Erik Mona wrote:

I'm curious.

Please choose one of the following. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts on the following question, if you would.

1) I am interested in a "Modern" Pathfinder RPG because:

A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).

B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.

If the game becomes as successful as it appears it may, something like this is definitely within the realm of possibility in the medium to long term.

Please pick one of the choices above and expound a bit on the way you voted the way you did.

Thanks!

Just to chime in:

B

I've always liked the idea of a future/modern game but actually the D20 Modern rules never were too much to my liking. I'd much prefer if Paizo redid the system to their own making.

Liberty's Edge

Eric Mona wrote:
some stuff...

I actually PREFERRED the mechanics behind D20 Modern over 3rd Edition (Ability Score based Core classes, with the customizable Talent Trees, etc). After reading through Star Wars Saga Edition ("fixed" grapple, easy make NPCs), I had high hopes for 4th Edition. Alas that was not the way WotC went... which led me to Pathfinder. I am quite pleased with the Pathfinder RPG as written... but the idea of an improved version of D20 Modern by the same people makes me giddy!


Well, Erik, I really like what I've read of my copy of PFRPG, and I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to see a modern Pathfinder. "Trailblazer!" :P

I would have to say A, because I really like the idea of Talent trees (though not necessarily the particular talents implemented by every class), and I would hate to see them go. I also enjoy the notion of the action points (though not necessarily how they are implemented), and I really dig the rules on Massive Damage and cover/concealment. There is a LOT Paizo could do for this aging, much-maligned rule set without starting from scratch at all.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Between options A & B, I'd lean towards B. That said, I am not dying for a PFd20Modern...though I would almost certainly grab it if it came out, I doubt I'd be buying frequent modern products.

If you were going to branch the system out, I'd rather see something that while possibly good for modern play, was primarily focused on sci-fi space opera. I really enjoyed the Star*Drive campaign for Alternity and wouldn't mind seeing something similar, with a lot of inspiration from pulpy stories such as those featured in Planet Stories, movies like Total Recall and Running Man, etc.

All that said, for the moment I am pretty happy with what's happening with fantasy based Pathfinder and don't see myself spending a lot of money on other genres until the run of Golarion products tapers off a bit.


Erik Mona wrote:

I'm curious.

Please choose one of the following. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts on the following question, if you would.

1) I am interested in a "Modern" Pathfinder RPG because:

A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).

B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.

If the game becomes as successful as it appears it may, something like this is definitely within the realm of possibility in the medium to long term.

Please pick one of the choices above and expound a bit on the way you voted the way you did.

Thanks!

B. I'm not married to the d20 Modern system at all, but I'd love to see Pathfinder-based rulesets for:

Steampunk/Victorian
Modern
Sci-Fi/Future

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I lean A more than B -- there is a lot good in d20 Modern that doesn't need to go away; it's nicely flexible and adaptive to various genres. Specifically--I like the Strong, Smart, etc. base classes. They are specific enough to represent enough heroic archetypes across the genres that d20 modern covers, but still broad enough that you have some leeway with how you interpret and want to build the class.

I like Talent Trees--they're a great way to customize a character's advancement.

I like the Wealth System--it is too annoying to track modern resources the way one would track GP, and Wealth is a good alternative.

I like Occupations that help further define your character (and they are part of why I don't object to the seemingly "generic" nature of the base classes--because you're not just a 'Smart Hero'--a you're a Smart Academic or a Smart Law Enforcer, or a Charismatic Academic or a Tough Law Enforcer). The class system with Occupations works well for me to mold your character into the game that you're playing, while system-wise it allows multi-genre play with little adaptation.

I like the rules for building Ordinaries (easy NPC normals in just a few steps--yay!).

I don't see the need to get rid of these things because, why fix what isn't broken?

I like Advanced classes to a point (I think some class abilities need to be folded into talent trees or feats instead). I don't like Prestige classes on top of Advanced classes, however. There should be one or the other, otherwise to me it just gets too unwieldy and too splat reliant (I am one of those unpopular people who likes to run with as much out of core as possible, looking only to splats when absolutely necessary).

That said, there is merit to B, and I think if in playtesting, "Pathfinderizing" a Modern system resulted in something entirely new that worked better--sure. Absolutely. And I certainly expect certain issues to be fixed (too many skills in d20 Modern!) and revised significantly.

Scarab Sages

I'd vote A. I love the Talent Trees. I like the modular base classes, possibly more than I would a single generic class. (I could see renaming them, though, since the names seem to give some people I know trouble.) Like the occupations, and the base/advanced/prestige class progression. Don't mind the wealth system, but I'm not in love with it.

If there was a "Pathfinderized" d20 Modern, I'd want to see the same process taken to d20M as was taken to 3.5: identify the problems, redo the worst offenders, streamline in general, but try to retain backward compatibility. (If just so all the 3rd Party d20M products out there can still be used.)


Arazyr wrote:

I'd vote A. I love the Talent Trees. I like the modular base classes, possibly more than I would a single generic class. (I could see renaming them, though, since the names seem to give some people I know trouble.) Like the occupations, and the base/advanced/prestige class progression. Don't mind the wealth system, but I'm not in love with it.

If there was a "Pathfinderized" d20 Modern, I'd want to see the same process taken to d20M as was taken to 3.5: identify the problems, redo the worst offenders, streamline in general, but try to retain backward compatibility. (If just so all the 3rd Party d20M products out there can still be used.)

I already chimed in, but...

What Azazyr said x10!! That was the point of the original post. Take the same design approach/methodology to D20 Modern as was done for 3.5.

Oh and what Azazyr said x10 on all the other stuff also! :)


ChrisRevocateur wrote:
Saurstalk wrote:
To be honest, the biggest thing I've wanted is a way to cross-pollinate the two playgrounds. It took me some time to iron out the critical difference, that being the defense bonus. What has worked is to make the class defense bonus for D&D classes equal to 1/2 the BAB (for those classes).
Actually, they've got a defense bonus system in Unearthed Arcana.

Yes, but it's not as good as the Defense system in D20 Modern. If my tank Fighter is wearing full plate, do I really need for him to have the best Defense progression? Or does it make more sense for the agile rogue and lightning-fast monk to have it?

YMMV.


BPorter wrote:
ChrisRevocateur wrote:
Saurstalk wrote:
To be honest, the biggest thing I've wanted is a way to cross-pollinate the two playgrounds. It took me some time to iron out the critical difference, that being the defense bonus. What has worked is to make the class defense bonus for D&D classes equal to 1/2 the BAB (for those classes).
Actually, they've got a defense bonus system in Unearthed Arcana.

Yes, but it's not as good as the Defense system in D20 Modern. If my tank Fighter is wearing full plate, do I really need for him to have the best Defense progression? Or does it make more sense for the agile rogue and lightning-fast monk to have it?

YMMV.

It was meant as a replacement for armor, not a supplement. That's why when you put on armor, you don't get your defense bonus anymore. Since the warriors are the ones that can wear the armor with the highest values, it follows that they should get the highest bonus when replacing armor.

If you want a realistic explanation for the game mechanic working that way, then think of this: warriors train specifically for combat, including how to not just avoid, but block and parry blows that come in. Rogues do train a bit for combat, but don't have the kind of devotion to battle and the way it works that the warrior types do. Monks already have their AC bonus PLUS adding their wisdom bonus on top of their defense bonus. You want a wily rogue then get a high dexterity, Acrobatics skill, and feats like dodge and mobility.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

B with a touch of A.

For modern I like the flexible classes and talent trees but would be willing to play something different as well.


I like occupations too, though I have taken to refering to them as backgrounds. They don't represent a character's job so much as how the character is defined.

Does the character think of himself as a "regular joe" dock worker (blue collar) or does his military service define how he thinks of himself (military).

Sovereign Court

Erik Mona wrote:

I'm curious.

Please choose one of the following. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts on the following question, if you would.

1) I am interested in a "Modern" Pathfinder RPG because:

A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).

B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.

If the game becomes as successful as it appears it may, something like this is definitely within the realm of possibility in the medium to long term.

Please pick one of the choices above and expound a bit on the way you voted the way you did.

Thanks!

I've mentioned early i have a crossbreed D20 Modern/Pathfinder Beta game that (Since I finally have my book) will be updated to PFrpg. In fact I'm doing that now...just hope the boss is really out of town today...anyway D20 Modern has needed an update ever since it was left behind with the 3.5 rules. Who better then you guys to do so.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I would be interested in a modern Pathfinder too. Fitting into the B section of things. Although anything I buy would need to be compatible with the old Dark Matter setting. Given Paizo's friendship with Wolfgang Baur and Monte Cook, that probably won't be a problem. My other concern is that gunshots should be damn serious. d20 Modern had D&D standard hit points, which really doesn't work when even the wimpy tech guy can get shot 4 or 5 times before going to the hospital. If Pathfinder can find a way to fix that problem, I'm all over it.


Congrats to everyone who added there voice here.
It is confirmed your getting your book.

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/products/licensees/modernRolePlayingForThePathfinderRPG


deathsausage wrote:
I would be interested in a modern Pathfinder too. Fitting into the B section of things. Although anything I buy would need to be compatible with the old Dark Matter setting. Given Paizo's friendship with Wolfgang Baur and Monte Cook, that probably won't be a problem. My other concern is that gunshots should be damn serious. d20 Modern had D&D standard hit points, which really doesn't work when even the wimpy tech guy can get shot 4 or 5 times before going to the hospital. If Pathfinder can find a way to fix that problem, I'm all over it.

I always house ruled this with a low "death from massive damage" rule, like Con score, or if I wanted it a bit more heroic, it would be Con score plus character level.


I'd strongly recommend Grim Tales


BryonD wrote:
I'd strongly recommend Grim Tales

Yep. As 3rd-party support is almost a requirement for D20 Modern, Grim Tales is a gold-mine of campaign-tweaking goodness. I consider it a core rulebook for both D20 Modern and my fantasy OGL campaign.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

deathsausage wrote:
I would be interested in a modern Pathfinder too. Fitting into the B section of things. Although anything I buy would need to be compatible with the old Dark Matter setting. Given Paizo's friendship with Wolfgang Baur and Monte Cook, that probably won't be a problem. My other concern is that gunshots should be damn serious. d20 Modern had D&D standard hit points, which really doesn't work when even the wimpy tech guy can get shot 4 or 5 times before going to the hospital. If Pathfinder can find a way to fix that problem, I'm all over it.

I have to disagree with you there.

A bullet is not actually that much more deadly then a sword blow!

Firearms are easier to use, and harder to defend against, but both can kill quite well.

So, if you want realism in the way that weapon damage is handled, you want system where the character's defense values increase, but their actually ability to abosb damage is relatively static (only changing with the character's stats).

Such a system would require such a radical change in the rule system that you would be better off abandoning d20 and using something else.

Liberty's Edge Contributor

A revamp of D20 Modern would rock my game table. I do enjoy fantasy games, but modern gaming is what originally got me into RPGs, and it remains my favorite to this day. I was very excited to hear about D20 Modern coming out back on '02, and even though I was very disappointed by it, I still stuck with the system and picked up the sourcebooks, hoping it would improve.

I loved the system enough that I spent several months rebuilding the class chapter for my home games.

If Paizo were to reimagine D20 Modern, I have to say both A and B.

A) I enjoy a lot of the concepts behind D20 Modern, like the flexible class, the talent system, and the concept of occupations. They showed a design philosophy of flexibility and customization, which is important when you're building something as complicated and varied as the modern world (plus modern fantasy, plus modern horror, plus scifi, plus historical fiction…). Unfortunately, none of these turned out very well in the final take: the classes penalize multiclassing, the talents were dull, and the occupations were almost an afterthought and rarely mattered beyond first level.

B) Pathfinder made fun and much-needed changes to the 3.5 rules, simplifying and spicing things up. I used to be a die-hard Fighter or Rogue player. But now, I actually want to try playing each class, even classes I've never had any interest in before. After seeing the Paizo take on fantasy gaming, I'd be willing to trust my beloved modern games to the development team (and this decision isn't at all influenced by the fact that I work 12 feet away from the editors).

Overall, I'd buy a Pathfinder Modern RPG, whether it stuck with the old D20 Modern concepts or not, though I would be much happier if I could still think of my NPCs in terms of Fast2/Smart1.

Contributor

I am strongly considering Pathfinderizing D20 Future for my Dark Horizons line.

Scarab Sages

I would heartily invest in a Paizo'd/Pathfindered version of D20 Modern. Our gaming group has always enjoyed a modern/futuristic sci-fi game from Alternity to Dragonstar and through the D20 modern and future games. I would pick option B. I have faith the Paizo crew could do similar justice to a modern/future game that they have done with 3.5.


Nicolas Logue wrote:
I am strongly considering Pathfinderizing D20 Future for my Dark Horizons line.

I am strongly desiring to buy it sight unseen!


Nicolas Logue wrote:
I am strongly considering Pathfinderizing D20 Future for my Dark Horizons line.

I would be very interested in that :)

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Lord Fyre wrote:
deathsausage wrote:
I would be interested in a modern Pathfinder too. Fitting into the B section of things. Although anything I buy would need to be compatible with the old Dark Matter setting. Given Paizo's friendship with Wolfgang Baur and Monte Cook, that probably won't be a problem. My other concern is that gunshots should be damn serious. d20 Modern had D&D standard hit points, which really doesn't work when even the wimpy tech guy can get shot 4 or 5 times before going to the hospital. If Pathfinder can find a way to fix that problem, I'm all over it.

I have to disagree with you there.

A bullet is not actually that much more deadly then a sword blow!

Firearms are easier to use, and harder to defend against, but both can kill quite well.

*nods* A lot of people make the argument that if you get shot, there's a good chance you'll die--but if you got impaled by a longsword or an arrow, guess what? You'll also probably die--might take slightly longer to bleed out due to less ballistic damage, but dying is dying. We're not made of the same stuff action OR fantasy heroes are made of. We shouldn't apply one standard of "verisimilitude" to one type of weapons (or type of high adventure hero) and not another.

A lot of people who dislike Modern's firearms rules also forget that Massive Damage is different in Modern. If the damage is equal to your CON score, you have to save or die. The average person with a Con between 8 and 12 is likely to die if a pistol does max damage, let alone more powerful firearms.

Quote:


So, if you want realism in the way that weapon damage is handled, you want system where the character's defense values increase, but their actually ability to abosb damage is relatively static (only changing with the character's stats).

Such a system would require such a radical change in the rule system that you would be better off abandoning d20 and using something else.

Would it really have to be "radical"? One simple suggestion I've seen is to have Defense values be 10+Dex+class ability only, and Armor--the powerful/heavy stuff of which is rare and reserved usually for law enforcement and military--do Damage Reduction instead.

A Reinforced Leather Jacket would be, say, DR 2/ballistic (so it pads you from a punch or a knife, but a bullet tears through it). But a Kevlar Vest might have a flat DR 4/- or DR 4/explosive. So it does soak up some of a normal bullet's impact, but you're not going to be protected from a blast. (Note: the above numbers are kind of arbitrary)


I vote for A

I really like the ability driven base class and the use of talent tree.

Contributor

BPorter wrote:
Nicolas Logue wrote:
I am strongly considering Pathfinderizing D20 Future for my Dark Horizons line.

I am strongly desiring to buy it sight unseen!

Very cool, I will see what some Werecabbages and I can cook up.

Dark Archive

Erik Mona wrote:

I'm curious.

Please choose one of the following. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts on the following question, if you would.

1) I am interested in a "Modern" Pathfinder RPG because:

A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).

B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.

If the game becomes as successful as it appears it may, something like this is definitely within the realm of possibility in the medium to long term.

Please pick one of the choices above and expound a bit on the way you voted the way you did.

Thanks!

Mostly B. Although some concepts which are "staples" of a d20 fantasy RPG (long term classes and the whole 20 levels progression, the AC and HP "catch-it-all" values) must go.

To me the real discriminating element will be the flexibility of the whole system to adapt to space opera, high-tech (cyborgs and mechs), cyberpunk, old school pulp sci-fi, etc.

Dark Archive

Erik Mona wrote:


A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).

This, though Grim Tales by Bad Axe may be hard to top.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.

I've liked D20 Modern, and had lots of fun in the games I've played using it. The biggest strength the game had though is that it was so similar to D&D. The players in my group tend to be less excited about learning a whole new rules system for a game, so D20 modern was perfect for them to branch out away from fantasy settings and try something new.

That being said, the differences in the D20Modern rules were okay, servicable, but not elegant or very exciting. I think the most important part of a Pathfinderization of D20 Modern would be to have enough similarities to PRPG that a player of PRPG could easily step into a PRPGModern game without too much of a learning curve.

I also would say that if Paizo does this, I'd hope that they support the system better than Wizards did. For the first year or two it was okay, but what it really lacked was good adventures (I know 3rd party publishers put some out, and I have no idea if they were good or not, but they didn't seem to breakthrough and get a lot of attention.) If Paizo could publish the game, and have even 3 adventures and a sourcebook per year for it, that would be phenominal.

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