Non-divine healers, please

[LazarX]

Nero24200 wrote:

But if the alternative healers aren't as effective as the cleric, what's the point? The cleric will still be the "must-have" option for healing, and I was under the impression the OP is looking for somthing to fill it's place, an alternative.

This clinches my opinion that an MMORG-style "optimisation" obsession has definitely leaked throughly into paper and dice gaming. the idea that if a group or character is not "optimal" in a given role, it's not worth pursuing.

The point you're missing is that while these alternatives are not as "optimal" for healing they are viable. It may mean that your group may need to learn more forethought, more caution, heck I remember an old 2nd edition campaign where we had no healers for awhile, just a fighter, and illusionist, and a thief. eventually adding a multiclass mu-druid. It meant that we redefined the way we worked with the challenges and in some extent the DM tailored our adventures to be something more on the idea of stealth and finesse than just knockdown the door, beat the orc, rinse and repeat.

[Dragonborn3]

MerrikCale wrote:

They are also interesting from a role-playing point of view and for the DM. Often the best "bad guys" are the religious fanatics who are opposed to the PCs Church

Or even part of it.

[Beckett]

Dragonborn3 wrote:

MerrikCale wrote:

They are also interesting from a role-playing point of view and for the DM. Often the best "bad guys" are the religious fanatics who are opposed to the PCs Church

Or even part of it.

I wouldn't say fanatics. Fanatiscism gets very old fast, and it doesn't take long to realize you can't deal with or negotiate with. Strong belief, though has a lot of very good possibilities.

[LazarX]

Nero24200 wrote:

But if the alternative healers aren't as effective as the cleric, what's the point? The cleric will still be the "must-have" option for healing, and I was under the impression the OP is looking for somthing to fill it's place, an alternative.

That's MMORG optimisation creep that's been seeping into RP consciousness for quite some time. Sometimes part of the challenge for both DM and player is working a bit outside the box. Maybe an alternative healer might have some other things to contribute that a cleric might have, maybe it's time and opportunity for players to play thier characters a bit more strategically, try to see where they've set themselves up for hurt where they might not have to.

I've had parties with Druid main healers, Bards, Rangers, and Paladins with "happy sticks" and a very rare few with no healing at all. Each of these scenarios are challenges in thier own right. And to dismiss the idea of playing other than "optimally" is to narrow your playing opportunities needlessly.

[Dragonborn3]

Beckett wrote:

I think, at least in my experience, the real fault comes from the other players that always expect the Cleric to drop what the Cleric is doing and fix their mistakes. If the Cleric player doesn't stand up for themself early on, they tend to get intimidated into a singular role the entire game.

I once tried to play a lawful neutral cleric of Asmodeus, and when I told that to the guy playing a wizard and said "Well, he's useless!" I swear, you make one role-playing decision and everyone jumps on you for it, nevermind that there was a cleric of Sarenrae also in the party and I was going to be a front line cleric, thus letting a few Hit Points stay with the fighter.

[Frogboy]

We haven't had a dedicated healer in our group for quite some time. I currently play a Warlock who is the closest thing we have to healer. Last campaign I was a Spirit Shaman and played a similar role. We had a Cleric but he was more of a battle mage and didn't just go around healing people although filled the role after combat was over. Mostly, we heal up after the ecounter is over and have a couple of potions or scrolls for emergencies during combat. We get by just fine. We try to play smart though. If we detect an enemy before they notice us, we'll set up an ambush and take little or no damage most of the time.

It'll be interesting to see how the channel positive energy special ability impacts the balance of play. That's a lot of extra healing Clerics get especially at high levels.

[Frogboy]

Dragonborn3 wrote:

I once tried to play a lawful neutral cleric of Asmodeus, and when I told that to the guy playing a wizard and said "Well, he's useless!" I swear, you make one role-playing decision and everyone jumps on you for it, nevermind that there was a cleric of Sarenrae also in the party and I was going to be a front line cleric, thus letting a few Hit Points stay with the fighter.

Thankfully, I've never run into this one. I almost played a goblin monk with TWF on top of his flurry of [even more] misses. No one said a word. We try to just play what we want to play and adapt from there, which is probably why we haven't had a dedicated healer for quite some time.