I am one of two DM's in a small group. The other DM will be using pathfinder mostly, so I actually read the book, rather than skimming through it.
The bloodline ability that restricts you to a move actions seems a bit powerful. It has no mention of a save, and nothing that notes it as mind-affecting so by RAW it affects every creature in the game with only a melee touch. This means if you get grappled, which is normally a bad thing for a caster you can just keep restricting the monster to a move action for the rest of the encounter. The caster has effectively taken the grappler prisoner.
On druids it seems that instead of getting anything from changing to an animal the only thing they get is the animal's shape, and a bonus to strength and constitution, instead of the animal's actual strength.
Am I reading these correctly?
Fey bloodline can only affect a creature once per day. It's also a standard action to use (since it's an active power without a listed action cost, the rules for supernatural abilities say you default to a standard action). It's not "always on" and doesn't affect just anyone that the sorcerer touches.
You could use it during a grapple, but it wouldn't force your opponent to stop grappling you; it would only prevent them from dealing grapple damage to you that round.
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On druids it seems that instead of getting anything from changing to an animal the only thing they get is the animal's shape, and a bonus to strength and constitution, instead of the animal's actual strength.
You also get their attacks and movement speeds, and Str/Dex bonus/penalty based on the size change. Don't underestimate the new wildshape, I got my druid to a +20 ranged touch attack while he was wildshaped into a bat. Flame Blade and Produce Flame were spells he always had prepared.
You could use it during a grapple, but it wouldn't force your opponent to stop grappling you; it would only prevent them from dealing grapple damage to you that round.
Actually, I think it would.
If you successfully grapple an opponent, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold.
If you can't take a standard action, I assume you can't maintain the hold and the sorcerer would get out of the grapple for free.
So it sounds like it's a "get out of grapple free" card, usable once per day per opponent. Of course, unless the sorcerer uses his turn to make a double move away (or similar), there's nothing preventing the grappler from attempting to grapple again.
Okay, you're right. I wasn't thinking of the new grapple rules.
We always played (possibly incorrectly according to RAW) that you still had to make a melee touch attack at the -4 penalty if grappled in order to make something like this work. An example of this would be a Wizard casting shocking grasp on himself and then failing to make a successful touch attack on the intended target. The spell stays charged and his hand is glowing with magical energy. A Fighter or a Monk could grapple the foe, attempting to keep his charged hand away without automatically absorbing the spell. If the Wizard gets pinned and can't get out, the Monk (we'll say) hold him down until the charge runs out (1 round/level house rule).
Not sure how much of this is RAW, how much used to be and is now changed with Pathfinder rules and how much is house rules but that's the way we play it, none the less.
This allowed us to avoid situations where someone (good guy or bad) could cast a touch spell on themselves and nonchalantly pat someone on the back without any way for the target to have any chance to avoid it. We make touch spells cause an obvious effect on the caster's hand alerting anyone who can see him (usually) that he's got a spell charged and that they probably should avoid contact with that hand unless they are expecting a cure spell or some other beneficial effect from it.
Last session our fey-bloodline fighter/sorcerer nonchalantly patted someone on the back while telling a joke and made him laugh uncontrollably for 6 seconds.
It was awesome.
Casting in a combat is a concentration check. However the power in question is a supernatural power that requires a touch attack so no concentration check is required. Touch attacks count as light weapons there for taking no penalties on the attack roll. Still have to hit, at which point the creature can't make a standard action so the sorcerer can get out of the grapple (YaY!). The sorcerer had better think of something quickly though, as he can't do that again to the same creature for the next 24 hours, and it is likely the creature can reinstate the grapple next round unless (as I stated above) the sorcerer gets out of dodge quickly.
Touch attacks count as light weapons there for taking no penalties on the attack roll.
We're still using 3.5 rules so you only can attack with a light weapon while grappled and take -4 penalty to do so. I imagine that has changed quite a bit since there is an entirely new mechanic tied to grappling now.
Touch attacks count as light weapons there for taking no penalties on the attack roll.We're still using 3.5 rules so you only can attack with a light weapon while grappled and take -4 penalty to do so. I imagine that has changed quite a bit since there is an entirely new mechanic tied to grappling now.
ah yeah then complete agreement.
I may be wrong, and my books are not with me, but I thought supernatural abilities were "at will" which normally means once per round, unless otherwise stated, not once per day.
I will admit that is my 3.5 memory for the availibility of a supernatual ability. I did not check to see if pathfinder had changed it.
You also get their attacks and movement speeds, and Str/Dex bonus/penalty based on the size change. Don't underestimate the new wildshape, I got my druid to a +20 ranged touch attack while he was wildshaped into a bat. Flame Blade and Produce Flame were spells he always had prepared.On druids it seems that instead of getting anything from changing to an animal the only thing they get is the animal's shape, and a bonus to strength and constitution, instead of the animal's actual strength.
The beast shape spell, which is what wildshape is based off of, only gives an enhancement bonus, and says nothing about getting the size bonus also. I hope they fix that in the final version. Thanks.
The beast shape spell, which is what wildshape is based off of, only gives an enhancement bonus, and says nothing about getting the size bonus also. I hope they fix that in the final version. Thanks.You also get their attacks and movement speeds, and Str/Dex bonus/penalty based on the size change. Don't underestimate the new wildshape, I got my druid to a +20 ranged touch attack while he was wildshaped into a bat. Flame Blade and Produce Flame were spells he always had prepared.On druids it seems that instead of getting anything from changing to an animal the only thing they get is the animal's shape, and a bonus to strength and constitution, instead of the animal's actual strength.
They state in the previews that the bonuses are now size bonuses instead of enhancement.
I may be wrong, and my books are not with me, but I thought supernatural abilities were "at will" which normally means once per round, unless otherwise stated, not once per day.
I will admit that is my 3.5 memory for the availibility of a supernatual ability. I did not check to see if pathfinder had changed it.
Depends on the abilities discription. Supernatural just tells us how it interacts with armor, AoOs, SR, and anti-magic fields.
In this case the ability specifically states it can only be used once per day on a particular opponent.
I.e, it's a "once affected a target is immune for 24 hours" thing, not a "uses per day" thing.
Last session our fey-bloodline fighter/sorcerer nonchalantly patted someone on the back while telling a joke and made him laugh uncontrollably for 6 seconds.
It was awesome.
It's alright if not abused. When Clerics can just shake someone's hand with an active curse spell charged, it can get a little more troublesome. You can go either way with it, really. We just went our way for the sake of the heroes and villians alike.
Granted, if you walked up to someone who totally wasn't paying attention then, yeah, you could probably get away with that. During combat or when meeting strangers in the wild, you're going to be more on guard.
Cursing someone by shaking their hand is perfect, I think. I never want to discourage that kind of dastardly creativity in my game.
Your concern is that it is more effective than using such powers in combat, but I want clever non-linear tactics to be more effective than linear stand-there-and-fight tactics. This for me is an instance of positive imbalance. :)
Well, we used to run a lot of evil campaigns. It's quite possible that the way we play it stems from abuse on that side. Maybe it just got tiresome when too many evil adversaries started encounters by covertly slay living one of the PC. For some reason we felt the need to do this whether it's still neccessary or not. Can't really remember where it came from anymore to tell you the truth. I wonder if this has ever been spelled out by WotC or Piazo (not that it matters).
Well, we used to run a lot of evil campaigns. It's quite possible that the way we play it stems from abuse on that side. Maybe it just got tiresome when too many evil adversaries started encounters by covertly slay living one of the PC. For some reason we felt the need to do this whether it's still neccessary or not. Can't really remember where it came from anymore to tell you the truth. I wonder if this has ever been spelled out by WotC or Piazo (not that it matters).
My druid started saying: "You annoy me, finger of death."
At higher levels anyway...
well, I assume that this is less of a problem with spells than with supernaturals, as a spell must be cast (a very obvious gesture) and the charge must be held. Touching anything (even an object) with that hand or casting a spell wastes the charge.
You can hold a charge indefinitely, but not being able to cast spells until combat actually begins is very cumbersome, especially considering that you might not have an opportunity to discharge it in the first round of combat anyway.
As for the handshake, not everyone should fall for that. In fact, most people shouldn't, unless the PCs have taken real measure to appear as trustworthy or as potential allies. Even in the REAL world many people believed it unwise to let a "witch" touch you, and handshakes were a gesture of trust.
If someone playing an evil cleric can get his enemies to shake his hand, I'm going to pat that player on the back.
And deal exactly 110 points of damage to him, or 55 on a successful will save.
All true and fine but if I recall correctly, my original point was that just merely being in contact with someone while grappled, in some if not most cases, shouldn't automatically set off a touch spell. You probably still should have to make a touch attack to do it.