How can you overpower a Soulknife? Next you'll tell me someone made the commoner overpowered.
You should probably look at what they did with it before you ask that question. I love Soulknifes, and believed it to always have been quite underpowered.
What they did to it was a little much, though, IMO. I'm all for them having full BAB; that was a good move. But on top of all the goodness they already had, they've added in a LOT of blade skills and mindblade versatility, which give the soulknife a ton of cool abilities which can be used at will.
Like i said, it went in the right direction, just went too far.
How can you overpower a Soulknife? Next you'll tell me someone made the commoner overpowered.I suppose I could. Just seems like me going in and saying "what you have done is all wrong, and you're dumb" won't go over well. And no one cares about lil old me.It's what I had to do on their Soulknife build. They had some good ideas but WAY overpowered. Now it's in re-write, because they had good feedback. They WANT people to tell them what they are doing right and wrong.
If there need to be changes then there need to be changes. Maybe the Egoist should be able to effect others with their buffs, for example (which I think is a great idea).
Yes they gave them spells and a good will save and called them the wizard :P
How can you overpower a Soulknife? Next you'll tell me someone made the commoner overpowered.
If your commoner was a gestalt barbarian|paladin|ranger, they could do it.
How can you overpower a Soulknife? Next you'll tell me someone made the commoner overpowered.
If you had saw that thing you would Understand. All in all I find DSP's "power it up to 13 then go one more" approach a deal breaker for using anything they make for pathfinder really.
It's good they're there for folks that like em.
How can you overpower a Soulknife? Next you'll tell me someone made the commoner overpowered.If you had saw that thing you would Understand. All in all I find DSP's "power it up to 13 then go one more" approach a deal breaker for using anything they make for pathfinder really.
It's good they're there for folks that like em.
It was a beta, the point of it was to test the ideas and take the feedback, which they are doing. Now the psion alpha is a work in progress, the psychic warrior has some interesting whistles and bells, and the wilder alpha actually comes out looking pretty good, and while all need work none are overpowered in the way the soulknife was. I think with some honest feedback, their work can work out well.
If you want pathfinder psionics, and you don't think they are on the right track, log into the site and say so.
I agree that any of you that have strong feelings about this subject should in fact head over to their forums and let those feelings be known. This is exactly what they are asking for... feedback.
Tangent alert!
Unfortunately, my specific feedback on the soulknife is not something they're interested, and here's why. I have too narrow a view of the concept of a soulknife. i've always thought they would be coolest as a monk variant, honestly. Unarmored and unarmed (save their mindblade), they would lose all the "mystic" and unarmed abilities of a monk in lieu of iconic soulknife features: the mindblade, psychic strike, blade-wind, etc.
I'm actually working on the conversion now, but it's not something that is a priority to me, so it could be done quickly... or not.
Tangent over.
[tangentially]I am in favour of a soul-knife with 'modular' abilities you can use to construct whatever soulknife you like - including the monk-like type[/tangentially]
I think the whole system needs reworked and overhauled from the ground up and they do not, and don't feel like I should waste my time or theirs. If people like it, cool use it but after seeing where they are headed it's not a train I want to get on.
I think the whole system needs reworked and overhauled from the ground up and they do not, and don't feel like I should waste my time or theirs. If people like it, cool use it but after seeing where they are headed it's not a train I want to get on.
Out of curiosity, what don't you like about the system that you think it needs to be overhauled? Personally i think the base system is nearly perfect, if you just disallow overchanneling or other ways to get more out of your powers than someone would get out of spells.
Overchanneling is an issue, many of the powers I think need reworked . I find the system almost too fluid, to me it simply does not work with the core rules to many exceptions or changes. It should work with the core rules, and I feel it just does not. If it feels like I have meshed up two different game systems to run a class then that sub system does not work correctly.
I really wanted to like the rules and have allowed them, but I find they just do not work without reworking. I know alot of folks in this thread simply love the current system, I however do not.
Overchanneling is an issue, many of the powers I think need reworked .
Well, to be fair, most powers are receiving some tweaks. One of the changes in the Alpha version of the Powers, for example, is that Energy XXX Powers (Energy Push, Energy Bolt, Energy Missile, and so on) are slightly less customizable.
The Alpha version went a bit too far, forcing any non-Kineticist (aka Psionic Evoker) to specifically choose the type of energy dealt when learning the power, without being able to change it (for example, if a Psion took Energy Bolt - Fire, he could cast it only to deal Fire damage). The only exception was the Kineticist, which could decide 'on the fly' the type of energy dealt by each Power (just like the default 3.5 version of those powers).
After a bit of discussion, the authors decided to change it a little (although it will be formalized in the Beta version); Kineticists would be able to change the type of energy of those powers 'on the fly', Wilders would be able to change type of energy only while Wild Surging, and Psions would need to gain their Psionic Focus in order to change energy type (and so, in order to change it again, they would have to discharge Psionic Focus and recharge it again).
Overchanneling is an issue, many of the powers I think need reworked . I find the system almost too fluid, to me it simply does not work with the core rules to many exceptions or changes. It should work with the core rules, and I feel it just does not. If it feels like I have meshed up two different game systems to run a class then that sub system does not work correctly.
I really wanted to like the rules and have allowed them, but I find they just do not work without reworking. I know alot of folks in this thread simply love the current system, I however do not.
I confess I love it, and I find it works just fine. The fluidity is what I like about it.
Overchanneling is an issue, many of the powers I think need reworked . I find the system almost too fluid, to me it simply does not work with the core rules to many exceptions or changes. It should work with the core rules, and I feel it just does not. If it feels like I have meshed up two different game systems to run a class then that sub system does not work correctly.
I really wanted to like the rules and have allowed them, but I find they just do not work without reworking. I know alot of folks in this thread simply love the current system, I however do not.
How can something be too fluid?
Overchanneling is an issue, many of the powers I think need reworked . I find the system almost too fluid, to me it simply does not work with the core rules to many exceptions or changes. It should work with the core rules, and I feel it just does not. If it feels like I have meshed up two different game systems to run a class then that sub system does not work correctly.
I really wanted to like the rules and have allowed them, but I find they just do not work without reworking. I know alot of folks in this thread simply love the current system, I however do not.
You could still take a peek at the Soulknife, which has few/no manifesting powers in the Beta. If you can spare the time, please take a look at just it. A fresh opinion couldn't hurt the DSP team.
It can be to fluid if it does not use the same rules as the rest of the system. It's like another game someone forced into the game.To me it simply does not work well with the core game, not in the lest. I am not talking about points but the system as a whole.
It works great if you use no other magic classes and everything is built with psionic party in mind, I mean everything.It works badly if you mix and match IMO. The system is not made to play well with the system everyone else uses. Meatrace pointed out some reasons. I just do not see enough wroth keeping not to start over to be honest.
I am not looking to get into a debate about it, I was asked and I replied. If ya like what DSP is doing, cool buy and use it. I for one just do not like it, not downing them just not what I want.
<shrugs> Been there, done that, not had any problems. The mix and match works just fine for me with psionic manifesters and vancian magic users in the same party.
<shrugs> Been there, done that, not had any problems. The mix and match works just fine for me with psionic manifesters and vancian magic users in the same party.
Ditto. Never had any problems. I'm curious what problems he means though. He won't be specific at all so I get the impression he just hates psionics as a whole and is trying to justify it.
I had alot of issues with it sorry I do not have a list.It's been far to long since I ran any psion pc to recall details. I envy folks that can recall every single issues they had 10 years after having had it but sadly I am not one of those.
As as I said if ya like it cool, Good for you.
I had alot of issues with it sorry I do not have a list.It's been far to long since I ran any psion pc to recall details. I envy folks that can recall every single issues they had 10 years after having had it but sadly I am not one of those.
As as I said if ya like it cool, Good for you.
If you don't like the powers/system, would you be up to taking a quick glance at the non-manifesting (non-casting) Soulknife beta? No pressure, just curious on a fresh opinion. :)
I had alot of issues with it sorry I do not have a list.It's been far to long since I ran any psion pc to recall details. I envy folks that can recall every single issues they had 10 years after having had it but sadly I am not one of those.
As as I said if ya like it cool, Good for you.
That's fair enough, some things are some people's cup of tea and some aren't.
Psionics don't work well in a system with vancian, because they show how easily vancian casting is broken and overpowered on top of being unintuitive ;p
Sorry. Love my psionics! :D
Personally I think vancian magic should be for the weaker spell casters such as the Paladins, Rangers and their ilk. Where as the true power casters/manifesters should control their spells/powers threw the cleverer, more versatile system, that being the point system.
It can be to fluid if it does not use the same rules as the rest of the system. It's like another game someone forced into the game.To me it simply does not work well with the core game, not in the lest. I am not talking about points but the system as a whole.
It works great if you use no other magic classes and everything is built with psionic party in mind, I mean everything.It works badly if you mix and match IMO. The system is not made to play well with the system everyone else uses. Meatrace pointed out some reasons. I just do not see enough wroth keeping not to start over to be honest.
I am not looking to get into a debate about it, I was asked and I replied. If ya like what DSP is doing, cool buy and use it. I for one just do not like it, not downing them just not what I want.
I think we have a different version of the meaning of fluid. My version of fluid means fits(flows) easily. You are saying it does not fit though.
Personally I think vancian magic should be for the weaker spell casters such as the Paladins, Rangers and their ilk. Where as the true power casters/manifesters should control their spells/powers threw the cleverer, more versatile system, that being the point system.
I think that would make more sense too. Vanican might work for a wizard. while allowing the Sorcerer to use a point system.
I think we have a different version of the meaning of fluid. My version of fluid means fits(flows) easily. You are saying it does not fit though.
flows and fits are not the same thing. Water is fluid but ya just throw it on the ground and it doesn't really flow it just makes a mess.
I think we have a different version of the meaning of fluid. My version of fluid means fits(flows) easily. You are saying it does not fit though.flows and fits are not the same thing. Water is fluid but ya just throw it on the ground and it doesn't really flow it just makes a mess.
which is what I was saying, I thought it made a mess, it just didn't fit.
to me it means work smoothly(without issues)
http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/fluid
2 : characterized by or employing a smooth easy style
<raises one eyebrow> PS: I think you knew what I meant. </raises one eyebrow>
eh use what meaning ya like, no skin off my teeth
One of the things I kinda missed in 3.5 edition was to make something like a pyro-kinetist, the powers were too flexible in that regard and you could just use any energy type you needed at the moment.
I would like to see some nice options to make such a build viable. guess I'll have a look over there after I browse these forums.
Again I only looked at the psion. Personally I thought the Psion as a class, as expressed in the XPH is at a solid power level but lopsided. Its blasting is more powerful than a wizard or sorcerer (leaving the debate about the efficiency of blasting aside for a moment) and a lot more versatile, being able to choose your element on the fly. On the other hand Psionics in 3.5 lacks the kind of utility that arcane magic has. There is no real psionic invisibility, what is there is a pale imitation. There is no psionic Tiny Hut or Shrink Item etc.
I understand that psionics are different, and I love it that way, but Psionics has this reputation of not playing well with others which isn't completely undeserved. The majority of powers only affect the manifester; there aren't many group buffs. One builds a psion to be a superstar, not a team player. While I love the versatility of the action economy with so many swift or immediate actions to take, the ease of use of quicken power means there is one optimal build and it's rather munchkin (psycrystal containment, hustle, quicken power, schizm, etc.). I like that psions can "overchannel" given the feat, but the way things scale and the nature of psionic powers means it's almost a must have. I played a human psion for over 2 years, in a brutal Dark Sun campaign with creatures ambushing us around every corner, and I never ran out of power points.
Those are just some observations. The DSP PF Psion serves to make them MORE powerful able to manifest MORE powers of their highest level and do MORE damage and MORE all the time bonuses. It seems an odd way to go. Personally I would a)drop psion in as-is b)clean up existing powers to be in line with PF (which I know they are doing) and c)add new powers that add a more cerebral functionality i.e. battlefield control, debuff, group buff.
Maybe the psion was supposed to be the "me" class, but then what exactly is it's purpose? It might just be to annihilate enemies.
Magic is better at some things, psionics is better at others. I think the self-only style of the psionic buffs was meant to be be limiting, but I confess it made the egoist a bit of an odd-ball.
That said there are suggestions floating around the DSP boards about how to advance the class, and taking the criticism in line, I suggested that the egoist - the psychometabolism specialist that gets all the buffs - be able to effect others with their otherwise 'personal' effect powers. This has two effects:
1) It makes them more of a party animal, able to boost other characters.
2) It makes them a back-up healer, able to actually directly heal others, something psionics in basic form was unable to do very well. It's nowhere near as good as having a cleric in the party, but it is useful.
For those that would like an update from this thread - the Soulknife has just hit Beta 2. Some people raised the opinion that it was overpowered - and like Paizo we preferred to go "a little overboard" in the Alpha to dial things back for the Beta. Now, the Soulknife got a second Beta and I'd love to hear your opinions about it.
Please come join us at Dreamscarred Press and tell us whatya think about it. Worst possible scenario, you continue to ignore it afterwards and you've only lost a minute or two. Best possible scenario, you find something you like and your feedback makes it into the book. :)
Looking forward to you guys coming by! :D