That's an ending I don't think anyone saw coming.
Nonsensical parts where Drogon didn't BBQ Jon or the Unsullied stab him to death. Otherwise eh..
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I liked it. After all the kvetching, I was left wondering if the complainers ever saw one of the many shows that *actually* had a terrible ending, like Lost, or Battlestar Galactica, or Heroes. This one ended pretty well, and wrapped everything up neatly (but not entirely predictably).
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I was... Satisfied.
It was an ending. It may not have had the best season backing it up, but it ended in a way that was satisfactory.
Thoughts...
Sweet Robin importing that Tormond's Reserve milk from the True North.
Edmure looks good for being a useless douche chilling at Riverrun or the Twins or wherever he was hiding out during these last two wars. Nobly volunteering to be King before getting talked down by Her Excellency, Queen o' da Norf Sansa.
Good for Samwise... Samwell for continuing his Maester training. Probably the first Grand Maester with like a whole 2 links (one made of scabs for curing Jorah the Explorah, one made of whatever for thieving some books).
The rando Lords with no names just to fill seats at the choosing. Hi new Martell Prince, how's crappy Dorne been crappily doing?
Jon and Tormond riding off into the forest was a fitting farewell. All those other three dozen free folk having to walk, though...
@Set
Edmure was still in his cell all that time until the living Frey women let him out, so I cut him some slack.
Grey Worm and the endlessly respawning Unsullied will do ok I guess. The offer of Land in the Reach was pretty empty since they would all be dead in a generation
I suspect Bran will be handpicking his successor as the next 3EC vessel
...Arya takes on the appearance of Daenerys -- possibly permanently.
Drogon wouldn't have bought it.
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I like that Bran's chessplaying is left hidden in the margins of the show. I mean, it seems clear enough--whenever someone apologizes to him, he's like, "Hey, it's what was needed to get us to this point." It's amusing to see people miss the forest for the trees: "Ugh, Bran's so useless, why is he warging out in the middle of the battle? Why doesn't he DO something?" The kid can mentally travel through time and influence people's actions in the past. He's not checking his email, folks.
Then, at the end, "Why do you think I came all this way?" Heh.
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I liked it. After all the kvetching, I was left wondering if the complainers ever saw one of the many shows that *actually* had a terrible ending, like Lost, or Battlestar Galactica, or Heroes. This one ended pretty well, and wrapped everything up neatly (but not entirely predictably).
** spoiler omitted **
Just to point this out... you are comparing this season of GoT to a bunch of shows that had their weakest episodes/seasons during the writers strike.
In other words, the people who write for a living on GoT are slightly better than the replacement, non-union writers shows hired during the 2007 writers strike.
I like that Bran's chessplaying is left hidden in the margins of the show. I mean, it seems clear enough--whenever someone apologizes to him, he's like, "Hey, it's what was needed to get us to this point." It's amusing to see people miss the forest for the trees: "Ugh, Bran's so useless, why is he warging out in the middle of the battle? Why doesn't he DO something?" The kid can mentally travel through time and influence people's actions in the past. He's not checking his email, folks.
Then, at the end, "Why do you think I came all this way?" Heh.
To start up a proper revenge on the Men for what they did to the Children of the Forest? Keeping them weak and scattered sounds right.
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I like that Bran's chessplaying is left hidden in the margins of the show. I mean, it seems clear enough--whenever someone apologizes to him, he's like, "Hey, it's what was needed to get us to this point." It's amusing to see people miss the forest for the trees: "Ugh, Bran's so useless, why is he warging out in the middle of the battle? Why doesn't he DO something?" The kid can mentally travel through time and influence people's actions in the past. He's not checking his email, folks.
Then, at the end, "Why do you think I came all this way?" Heh.
The problem with this is we aren't being shown him doing anything.
Your fan theory is neat and all, but this perspective on Bran is not explained, or actually even present, in the show.
If you only go by what was shown, Bran was an interesting character developed by GRRM, but the show writers had no clue what to do with him, so they used him as a McGuffin that didn't serve any actual purpose. After becoming the three-eyed raven, literally the only thing he does to affect the story is confirm Samwell's findings.
Drogon wouldn't have bought it....Arya takes on the appearance of Daenerys -- possibly permanently.
Obviously that plan depends on Drogon flying away afterwards (preferably with Daenerys' body, as in fact happened).
But I am actually rather glad that this didn't happen, especially since Jon and Arya would have had trouble planning this one out effectively.
I like that Bran's chessplaying is left hidden in the margins of the show. I mean, it seems clear enough--whenever someone apologizes to him, he's like, "Hey, it's what was needed to get us to this point." It's amusing to see people miss the forest for the trees: "Ugh, Bran's so useless, why is he warging out in the middle of the battle? Why doesn't he DO something?" The kid can mentally travel through time and influence people's actions in the past. He's not checking his email, folks.
Then, at the end, "Why do you think I came all this way?" Heh.
The problem with this is we aren't being shown him doing anything.
Your fan theory is neat and all, but this perspective on Bran is not explained, or actually even present, in the show.
If you only go by what was shown, Bran was an interesting character developed by GRRM, but the show writers had no clue what to do with him, so they used him as a McGuffin that didn't serve any actual purpose. After becoming the three-eyed raven, literally the only thing he does to affect the story is confirm Samwell's findings.
Well he can warg into people to take control and is able to control people in the past(witness Hodor's fate) So flaming Dany's madness might be a thing
Am I the only one who absolutely hated it?
I just can't shake the bad taste that this season has left in my mouth. I feel like it's not that I'm upset about how character's story lines ended as much as I am how little detail they put into these characters in what was suppose to be an astounding climactic ending to a just-under-a-decade show.
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If you only go by what was shown... literally the only thing he does to affect the story is confirm Samwell's findings.
It's true that the showrunners chose to deemphasize the ambiguous magical forces of GRRM's world. We don't get as much reflection on the nature of prophecy, for example, or Bran's hidden exploitation of Hodor's body, or Sixskin's attempt to escape death.
But that doesn't mean these elements are entirely absent from the show. You hear a lot of complaints that the show was hamfisted, gratuitous--but it was capable of subtlety and nuance, up to the very end.
Was Bran a puppetmaster? Without being in his point of view, where the novels should take us, it's impossible to say for sure--your perspective, that he was useless, is just as much a fan theory as my own. The text is open to interpretation. I rather enjoy the ambiguity.
One place I regret how the show leaned away from magic is with Dany's relationship with her dragons. There's plenty of material in the books implying that she and Drogon have a wargish connection, that he responds to her strongest emotions and supressed desires--and vice versa. The actions of Drogon after her death--sparing Jon, destroying the throne--gain an additional layer of meaning if it's possible that something of Dany's spirit lives on in Drogon, as the spirit of Orell lived on in his hawk.
One of GRRM's greatest accomplishments as a writer is his ability to imply so much more than he says outright. It would be a shame to restrict our appreciation of his ideas to the ones that are revealed with absolute certainty.
Was Bran a puppetmaster? Without being in his point of view, where the novels should take us, it's impossible to say for sure--your perspective, that he was useless, is just as much a fan theory as my own. The text is open to interpretation. I rather enjoy the ambiguity.
I'm not stating a fan theory. I am talking about what happened on the screen.
You are talking about things that didn't happen on the screen, but have inferred that they did.
Obviously that plan depends on Drogon flying away afterwards (preferably with Daenerys' body, as in fact happened).Drogon wouldn't have bought it....Arya takes on the appearance of Daenerys -- possibly permanently.
Sure--but it seems likely that Drogon would have reacted very differently to Arya doing the stabbing that it did to Jon.
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Nonsensical parts where Drogon didn't BBQ Jon or the Unsullied stab him to death. Otherwise eh..
Drogon figured out that the metal stabbity porcupine thing is actually the one who hurt Momma. Drogon knows Jon is dumber than a small pile of rocks and barely competent enough to not accidentally kill himself on a daily basis; there was no way Jon could protect Momma from the wily porcupine.
Sure--but it seems likely that Drogon would have reacted very differently to Arya doing the stabbing that it did to Jon.Obviously that plan depends on Drogon flying away afterwards (preferably with Daenerys' body, as in fact happened).Drogon wouldn't have bought it....Arya takes on the appearance of Daenerys -- possibly permanently.
There were two things I didn't properly work out with my now debunked theory:
1) Could Arya have taken the face of somebody that she didn't personally kill?
2) Would Jon's presence have protected Arya if the two were standing close together?
But please feel free to use my theory as an example of how the ending could have been worse that it was.
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Was Bran a puppetmaster?
After all the chaos, he's what the Six Kingdoms need right now.
When future generations tell his story, they'll all agree that Bran's moral fiber returned them to regularity.
.....Bran's moral fiber returned them to regularity.
Nicely done.
If you only go by what was shown... literally the only thing he does to affect the story is confirm Samwell's findings.It's true that the showrunners chose to deemphasize the ambiguous magical forces of GRRM's world. We don't get as much reflection on the nature of prophecy, for example, or Bran's hidden exploitation of Hodor's body, or Sixskin's attempt to escape death.
But that doesn't mean these elements are entirely absent from the show. You hear a lot of complaints that the show was hamfisted, gratuitous--but it was capable of subtlety and nuance, up to the very end.
Was Bran a puppetmaster? Without being in his point of view, where the novels should take us, it's impossible to say for sure--your perspective, that he was useless, is just as much a fan theory as my own. The text is open to interpretation. I rather enjoy the ambiguity.
One place I regret how the show leaned away from magic is with Dany's relationship with her dragons. There's plenty of material in the books implying that she and Drogon have a wargish connection, that he responds to her strongest emotions and supressed desires--and vice versa. The actions of Drogon after her death--sparing Jon, destroying the throne--gain an additional layer of meaning if it's possible that something of Dany's spirit lives on in Drogon, as the spirit of Orell lived on in his hawk.
One of GRRM's greatest accomplishments as a writer is his ability to imply so much more than he says outright. It would be a shame to restrict our appreciation of his ideas to the ones that are revealed with absolute certainty.
If we subscribe to Bran warging throughout time and space, then it can potentially mean that he was tweaking minds all the way past season 1 and all the death and chaos was due to his prodding. Why? Vengeance for the Children/Weyrwoods perhaps. Jon is exiled and is a non-issue, Sansa leads the North which is independent and weakens the kingdom, Arya goes West to either die or bring smallpox. Bran/3EC can now keep humanity weak for generations to come.
I suspect Bronn will either get run out or stabbed to death rather quick.
Sam really needs to finish his maester training.
Brienne is qualified but if the Kingsguard is still like it was, then she is trapped in a lifetime job and can never marry or be with a new love.
Podrick being there is a crime to all those who want to experience the Tripod.
I wonder whether celibacy will still be required in all those organizations that used to require it? Certainly there is no evidence that Samwell Tarly was required to put away Gilly.
In the final episode, celibacy was mentioned only for the Night's Watch, and the later scene of Jon, Tormund, Ghost, and a large number of Wildlings going north beyond the Wall makes me skeptical that having Jon take the Black was anything but a ruse to get Gray Worm to forget about Jon as he vanishes into the Far North.
If we subscribe to Bran warging throughout time and space, then it can potentially mean that he was tweaking minds all the way past season 1 and all the death and chaos was due to his prodding. Why?...
You might enjoy this: "Bran is the villain and a lot more"
I wonder whether celibacy will still be required in all those organizations that used to require it? Certainly there is no evidence that Samwell Tarly was required to put away Gilly.
In the final episode, celibacy was mentioned only for the Night's Watch, and the later scene of Jon, Tormund, Ghost, and a large number of Wildlings going north beyond the Wall makes me skeptical that having Jon take the Black was anything but a ruse to get Gray Worm to forget about Jon as he vanishes into the Far North.
Oh for certain it was a ruse. Grey Worm has zero know-how in political trickery and will unfortunately die from the poison butterflies that inhabit Missedi's home island.
So it looks like the Dorathaki have assimilated instead of being rape-raiders(Two are walking around when Jon is heading to his boat)
So besides Old Republic, it looks like D&D's next project is the Confederacy wins series
And lo, there was a great gnashing of teeth and wailing from the ladies of the evening,
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It was a solid show finale, for a season that was overall too rushed.
Bran being king sounds like a book plot point, but one that was undermined by how the showrunners basically turned him into a robot and the character with the least interest. are there Bran fans? I think pretty much ANYONE else would have probably gone over well.
At least the lords keep hydrated due to the water bottle sthey keep near their chairs. Really, if you can go back to the dragon pit scene, check the chair legs
Edmure would be a perfectly mediocre king
It does kind of make sense in a Pratchettique way where the people/person who get the real work done are not the dragon queens/shining knight with a flaming sword/etc. But a bunch of people sitting around a table for hours dickering over numbers.
More stabbings though. In the above Pratchett version, I could see Vetrinari sidling up to said hero and try to convince them to take their bag of gold as a reward and let him run things. Once the whole 'Free the world' line gets dropped. He then sighs and drives a blade into their liver because he is a practical man and knows when it is time to nip things in the bud.
I wonder whether celibacy will still be required in all those organizations that used to require it? Certainly there is no evidence that Samwell Tarly was required to put away Gilly.
In the final episode, celibacy was mentioned only for the Night's Watch, and the later scene of Jon, Tormund, Ghost, and a large number of Wildlings going north beyond the Wall makes me skeptical that having Jon take the Black was anything but a ruse to get Gray Worm to forget about Jon as he vanishes into the Far North.
I think its kind of funny that Sam's lord of (the reach?) despite having just up and left the nights watch, you know, the thing that Eddard Stark beheaded crazy guy from season 1 for.
I mean Bran is King...he can pretty much pardon anyone he wants, and its not like RoboBran has any major hang ups on honor and duty.
I know GRRM is still listed as executive producer, but I read that he said he wasn't going to be involved much this last season because He wanted to try and finish Winds of Winter. I wonder if not having Him there or Him writing an episode this season was a factor on the bad pacing this season.
It's almost entirely pacing. With ten episodes we would have gotten a much more organic finale, rather than one which feels like it's moving from one plot point to another because GRRM told them it would happen.
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I know GRRM is still listed as executive producer, but I read that he said he wasn't going to be involved much this last season because He wanted to try and finish Winds of Winter. I wonder if not having Him there or Him writing an episode this season was a factor on the bad pacing this season.
"Executive Producer" can mean anything from a micromanager to dude who just gives money and gets credit. Either Martin doesnt give a f anymore about GoT or he had very little to do with the last few seasons seems like the likely choices.
I think its kind of funny that Sam's lord of (the reach?) despite having just up and left the nights watch, you know, the thing that Eddard Stark beheaded crazy guy from season 1 for.
What I got from the finale is that Sam is now Grand Maester and sits on the Small Council. He is not lord of anything.
Fan Theory: GRRM stopped writing his books during the show’s run to gauge how the fans would react and change the ending if he wants.
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Tossed around other webboards, Dr.Branhatten's time/mind manipulation goes to new levels of madness since he could be behind the creation of the world's religions. Characters have gone on about 'Whispers from the flame' Such as when Varys heard a voice from the flame when he got castrated so the Red Faith,Faith of the Seven,Old Gods,Faceless God and others are Bran's voice. So say Missandi wandering outside to die after the NK is killed is Bran ending the Red Faith because there is no longer any reason for it to exist.
While the voices people have heard can make sense as Bran doing his thing manipulating people via their religious and other beliefs, what then brought Beric and Jon back to life? No, I don't think Bran created any religions so much as he used them for his own ends.
Deeper into the rabbit hole.
Maybe Bran had a had in making the Unsullied? An army of fanatically loyal soldiers who are easy to make fall into line would make the perfect troops for Danny.
Perhaps Bran not only reached back in time to make The Wall, he made the Night King and the 3ECs as supposed 'foils'. Why? maybe to just pass the time.
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Deeper into the rabbit hole.
Maybe Bran had a had in making the Unsullied? An army of fanatically loyal soldiers who are easy to make fall into line would make the perfect troops for Danny.
Perhaps Bran not only reached back in time to make The Wall, he made the Night King and the 3ECs as supposed 'foils'. Why? maybe to just pass the time.
What is the ‘3ECs’?
It’s tbe second time you’ve used that abbreviation ...| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I know GRRM is still listed as executive producer, but I read that he said he wasn't going to be involved much this last season because He wanted to try and finish Winds of Winter. I wonder if not having Him there or Him writing an episode this season was a factor on the bad pacing this season.
GRRM has not actively worked on the show since the end of Season 4. His last work was writing the Purple Wedding episode of Season 4 and hosting a story conference at his house where he gave D&D an outline of the rest of the story for them to use.
After doing that, he realised if he continued writing for the show he'd have to switch between two distinct and increasingly separate versions of the story, which would get pretty weird, so he decided to stop working on the show to focus on the book.
Fan Theory: GRRM stopped writing his books during the show’s run to gauge how the fans would react and change the ending if he wants.
Actual answer: no, this did not happen.
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If Bran was manipulating events, including in the past, then it essentially removes all agency from any of the other characters. It makes the show more boring, even the good parts.
Deeper into the rabbit hole.
Maybe Bran had a had in making the Unsullied? An army of fanatically loyal soldiers who are easy to make fall into line would make the perfect troops for Danny.
Perhaps Bran not only reached back in time to make The Wall, he made the Night King and the 3ECs as supposed 'foils'. Why? maybe to just pass the time.
What is the ‘3ECs’?
It’s tbe second time you’ve used that abbreviation ...
Should have used 3ER (Three eyed Raven)
Tossed around other webboards, Dr.Branhatten's time/mind manipulation goes to new levels of madness since he could be behind the creation of the world's religions. Characters have gone on about 'Whispers from the flame' Such as when Varys heard a voice from the flame when he got castrated so the Red Faith,Faith of the Seven,Old Gods,Faceless God and others are Bran's voice. So say Missandi wandering outside to die after the NK is killed is Bran ending the Red Faith because there is no longer any reason for it to exist.
Westeros is a good example where atheism is a reasonable world view despite magic existing. How does one distiguish between R;hllor the lord of light and Dr. Branhatten?
Oh, and Lor Arryn was the same actor. (For all the people saying there's no way that brat grows up into... that)
So say Missandi wandering outside to die after the NK is killed is Bran ending the Red Faith because there is no longer any reason for it to exist.
Melisandre, not Missandi
If Bran was manipulating events, including in the past, then it essentially removes all agency from any of the other characters. It makes the show more boring, even the good parts.
Perhaps "influencing" rather than manipulating?
That's just the Devil's advocate in me speaking. Personally, I do not buy Bran as an omniscient time travelling chessmaster.
What if the old three eyed raven was bran mind screwing with himself?
I was involved in a short lived but promising PbP campaign that intended to rewrite the Star Wars prequels with new imaginings of the characters and plotlines. I wonder if such a campaign would be worthwhile to make all of this feel better to me.
I loved everything up to season 6. Season 7 was rough around the edges, but I had high hopes for this season. I'm left really hating the whole thing. I had intended to go back and watch the whole series after the finale, but I don't have any interest in that now.
I don't know if I will ever read a continuation of the novels. I'm pretty soured on the whole experience at this point. But role playing might be able to redeem it for me.